The Biden Presidency - 2020

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Resources have been channeled into law enforcement for decades with little to nothing to show for it.

Except for a drop in crime the rate over the last few decades?

400 Bad Request

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Most people I've seen calling for cuts to police spending want to see less money spent on equipping our police like the military so we get mental health experts on scenes and expand other types of policing than what we're doing now. So, in short, more money on things that have been proven to be effective and less on escalation.

There is also a call to split up patrol and the investigative side. Most departments throw all their money into the patrol side because it looks better to the public. The media also mostly reports on crimes taking place, not the follow-up.

If you look at most departments, the closure rate for major crimes is comically low. We constantly read stories about rape kits going untested. If you've lived in any major city, you know what a joke it is to report property crimes and expect them to put any effort into investigating it.

So this way you have your patrol who can write tickets and stand outside schools during shootings. Then have a separate department within the government that is tasked with solving crimes and rooting out criminals.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Except for a drop in crime the rate over the last few decades?

400 Bad Request

If they are fully responsible for that, shouldn't we question why the murder rate was dramatically up in 2020? Heck, why it was up over the past 5-6 years? Their funding has increased a lot. So where is the money going?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That chart really means nothing. Spending less isn't the same as abolishing, and I couldn't find number of respondents. Sample size matters. Not to mention it shouldn't come as a surprise it is higher with blacks and asians, they police haven't exactly been an ally to them.

Pew is pretty respectable. I guess they may have screwed the pooch here but I think this is pretty legit. This is October survey, they have a link to their methodology at the bottom for their Sept survey ... no idea why they didn't have their Oct methodology but their Sept approach prob gives you an idea.

Your point about abolishing vs reducing police funds is valid. But didn't think Nobody was talking about defund 100% as I think everyone here agrees that was stupid. It was decrease funding to the police which I thought was the discussion topic. But could be wrong

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

No, it really isn't. It's a high-paying job that requires no skill and has next to no accountability. Resources have been channeled into law enforcement for decades with little to nothing to show for it.

Jesus Christ, you just validated my argument and you say this as someone who has probably never had an in depth discussion with a Police Officer, you indicated last year you had never been on a ride along and don't see what officers go through every day/night dealing with shit people.

And tell me do Lawyers, psychiatrists and mediators make more than Police? Yes, they, do, yet cops have to incorporate all these skills into their jobs. Your whole agenda with police, like always is to paint everyone with a badge with a single broad brush, without taking the time to gather a full understanding of the job.

There is little to nothing to show for those resources because they are not being used correctly and the problem getting in the way most of the time is unions. If police were trained in all aspects of their jobs and given adequate down time, stress and poor decisions would drop. It would enable departments to better screen and get rid of idiots that should not have a badge.

We have a problem in law enforcement now because very few people want to do this job anymore because society as whole shits on them, no matter how hard they try to do the right thing. And in terms of resources, how is it working out for Seattle after they slashed budgets? It isn't.

Instead of looking at this through a singular lens of all cops suck, let me hear your solutions to reform and improvement? All I ever hear from you is bitching about law enforcement and how bad they suck.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Except many liberals really did want to defund the police, not simply reform it.

Many still support getting rid of the police.

Originally Posted by Edward64

Your point about abolishing vs reducing police funds is valid. But didn't think Nobody was talking about defund 100% as I think everyone here agrees that was stupid. It was decrease funding to the police which I thought was the discussion topic. But could be wrong

...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

We have a problem in law enforcement now because very few people want to do this job anymore because society as whole shits on them

You ever wonder why? Maybe it's the same reason we shit on Comcast.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why would a good person with good intentions want to associate with a group that protects bad people? Cleaning up the bad apples in police departments would go a long way to improving their reputation in the community and encouraging good people to join the ranks.

The public loves firefighters and paramedics. Two incredibly important professions who have to make life-saving decisions on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Instead of looking at this through a singular lens of all cops suck, let me hear your solutions to reform and improvement? All I ever hear from you is bitching about law enforcement and how bad they suck.

Split law enforcement up into two branches. The patrol side and the investigative side. Both sides work together to an extent (like prosecutors and police), but also separate from one another so that budgets don't overlap and goals aren't muddled.

Stringent oversight from independent parties that have the power to fire the worst officers and replace them with better ones. Increase funding to organizations tasked with investigating police officer misconduct. Hold police officers to the same standard as the general public.

Tie bonuses to civil payouts made for police misconduct and civil rights violations. If your fellow officer is costing you money out of your check, perhaps that will be the motivation needed to turn them in.

Invest in things that we know reduce crime. Mental health treatment, substance abuse treatment, and education. Decriminalize certain non-violent crimes that eat up resources and provide no benefit to the public.

But we know all those ideas would be fought tooth and nail by police officers.

[Edward64]

Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyHere View Post
Except many liberals really did want to defund the police, not simply reform it.

Many still support getting rid of the police.

Quote:

Fair enough.

Nobody, do you want to change your original statement or were you really referring to getting rid of the police vs decrease funding?

[NobodyHere]

I wasn't speaking for myself, I was saying that there are people who really do want to get rid of police.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I wasn't speaking for myself, I was saying that there are people who really do want to get rid of police.

There are polls that clearly say many want to reduce police funding.

If you have polls that show many want to completely get rid of police, let us know.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Jesus Christ, you just validated my argument and you say this as someone who has probably never had an in depth discussion with a Police Officer, you indicated last year you had never been on a ride along and don't see what officers go through every day/night dealing with shit people.

And tell me do Lawyers, psychiatrists and mediators make more than Police? Yes, they, do, yet cops have to incorporate all these skills into their jobs. Your whole agenda with police, like always is to paint everyone with a badge with a single broad brush, without taking the time to gather a full understanding of the job.

There is little to nothing to show for those resources because they are not being used correctly and the problem getting in the way most of the time is unions. If police were trained in all aspects of their jobs and given adequate down time, stress and poor decisions would drop. It would enable departments to better screen and get rid of idiots that should not have a badge.

We have a problem in law enforcement now because very few people want to do this job anymore because society as whole shits on them, no matter how hard they try to do the right thing. And in terms of resources, how is it working out for Seattle after they slashed budgets? It isn't.

Instead of looking at this through a singular lens of all cops suck, let me hear your solutions to reform and improvement? All I ever hear from you is bitching about law enforcement and how bad they suck.

It's a really hard time to be a public servant. It's a very easy time to complain about everything on the internet and pretend that counts as activism.

I think the biggest thing people miss with police agencies is that there's a few thousand of them in the U.S. And if you care, you end up taking on the burdens of the failings of agencies in other places you have nothing do with. Even though every agency is different - some are run perfectly, some are solid, some are disasters. But when you're in public service, you kind of share all of the failings more than you share all of the successes.

I've been to a bunch of wellness/therapy type-sessions over the last view months, trying to figure out my own place in all this. I conduct about 5 police trainings a year, read police transcripts and watch police videos probably every day. I have an incredible respect for what they do. I couldn't do it. I wish people saw what I see every day. But I can't really tell them. They just want to talk about what happened in some other agency 1,000 miles away a month ago. None of the good work done matters.

But we're trying. It's fucking hard. My mental health is shot. But this matters to me so much. But I'm still the bad guy. What I want is what I've always wanted - to have smarter police, more minority officers, better trained police, more liberal officers, more bookworm law-obsessed police (those are the best). That gets harder and harder because it seems the left wants to abandon what we do and leave it more and more to far right wing elements.

It's hard to vent anywhere because neither side is sympathetic to a liberal in law enforcement. We're kind of on an island. So I appreciate your posts on this.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police

How about this? I'll concede that you win whatever argument you're having against people who literally want to get rid of every single police officer. Congrats, you completely owned those people with their very stupid arguments. Do you have anything to add to the more complex discussion?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

How about this? I'll concede that you win whatever argument you're having against people who literally want to get rid of every single police officer. Congrats, you completely owned those people with their very stupid arguments. Do you have anything to add to the more complex discussion?

What the hell are you talking about?

Lathum asked for an example of someone who wished to get rid of the police and I gave him one.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

What the hell are you talking about?

Lathum asked for an example of someone who wished to get rid of the police and I gave him one.

I'm responding to both posts. Your "many liberals want the police to be abolished" is a dumb strawman argument, but I concede that you won against it.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

I've been to a bunch of wellness/therapy type-sessions over the last view months, trying to figure out my own place in all this. I conduct about 5 police trainings a year, read police transcripts and watch police videos probably every day. I have an incredible respect for what they do. I couldn't do it. I wish people saw what I see every day. But I can't really tell them. They just want to talk about what happened in some other agency 1,000 miles away a month ago. None of the good work done matters.

Your entire post was solid and I appreciate you sharing. One of our son's is in law enforcement and I train with a bunch that are really good, salt of the earth guys and it pains me that people don't take the time to fully understand how difficult the job is, when I have been out there with officers and experienced it. It takes a special breed of person to do it and do it well.

I snipped part the above because I am really interested in hearing more about the bolded piece?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm responding to both posts. Your "many liberals want the police to be abolished" is a dumb strawman argument, but I concede that you won against it.

How is it a "dumb strawman argument"?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

There are polls that clearly say many want to reduce police funding.

If you have polls that show many want to completely get rid of police, let us know.

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/vgqowgyn...nTabReport.pdf

Go to page 44

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/vgqowgyn...nTabReport.pdf

Go to page 44

The polled roughly 1400 people, 11% favor abolishing it. So about 144 people. Thats not many.

Show me examples of politicians running on that platform. Mayors advocating it. Etc...

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You ever wonder why? Maybe it's the same reason we shit on Comcast.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why would a good person with good intentions want to associate with a group that protects bad people? Cleaning up the bad apples in police departments would go a long way to improving their reputation in the community and encouraging good people to join the ranks.

The public loves firefighters and paramedics. Two incredibly important professions who have to make life-saving decisions on a regular basis.

Two things here and to clarify, outside of media, which paints two very different pictures, depending on lean, and neither does a good job capturing the whole picture. My reference was more to the constant abuse they take while doing their jobs, often from complete pieces of shit, trying to instigate their own viral moment with an angry cop. You would honestly be shocked at the amount of crap officers get while responding to the simplest of calls. Yeah, it's part of the job and should be expected from those that have little to no respect for anything civil or lawful. But it drains you and when just one cop responds, even engaging with words, or trying to move someone away from a volatile situation, it gets put out everywhere. For each one of these there are thousands of interactions that people poking them don't get what they want.

And don't mistake this as blind defense, LEOs acting badly still need to be called out and held accountable. In terms of the other professions you mentioned, when was the last time those other two professions were presented as anything but heroes in the media? Yet they are prone to mistakes that cost lives, insensitivity and all the other flaws that some officers possess. It just isn't good print in most cases.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Split law enforcement up into two branches. The patrol side and the investigative side. Both sides work together to an extent (like prosecutors and police), but also separate from one another so that budgets don't overlap and goals aren't muddled.

Stringent oversight from independent parties that have the power to fire the worst officers and replace them with better ones. Increase funding to organizations tasked with investigating police officer misconduct. Hold police officers to the same standard as the general public.

Tie bonuses to civil payouts made for police misconduct and civil rights violations. If your fellow officer is costing you money out of your check, perhaps that will be the motivation needed to turn them in.

Invest in things that we know reduce crime. Mental health treatment, substance abuse treatment, and education. Decriminalize certain non-violent crimes that eat up resources and provide no benefit to the public.

But we know all those ideas would be fought tooth and nail by police officers.

This is good shit and mostly viable, more on the non-violent crimes in a bit, which should be pushed back on. I don't think Police would object too harshly to any of those outside of the non-violent crimes piece. All of the other ideas help Police, but they will also all require resources, which refute the defund argument. One thing that needs to be decriminalized nationally is weed, and the three areas taxes from doing that would help the most would be law enforcement, mental health and education/school security. Plus expunge records for MJ related offenses nationally so these people have a path to become contributing members of society, which will impact crime.

In terms of decriminalizing things like petty theft, you have seen the impact of that in some places, California as a big example with the smash and grabs, freight train looting etc. These are not victimless crimes as they affect bottom line, which affects consumer prices. In addition, the more people with criminal leanings get away with, the more they will push the envelope. Soon, business owne4rs will get fed up and take matters into their own hands, then these non-violent crimes will become violent, either with a business owner defending their property, or being attacked for trying to do so. By not letting people that do this shit go scott free, you reduce the chance of things escalating to violence, by not making it attractive.

Don't reward people with no punishment for being idiots. If you want to reform these folks, or not ruin their lives for being selfish idiots, offer a path to expungement, while making them responsible for restitution, manual labor crews/community service (cleaning roads, poor neighborhoods, etc) with the end result being if they stay out of trouble for x years they are good.

They don't, then they serve time and lose their opportunity to atone. Finally, get tougher on crimes that involve any type of weapon or result in any type of injury. Put out a deterrent, while also adding reforms in the penal system to reward someone that serves their time and stays out of trouble after release. It is working well in some Scandinavian countries.

Bottom line is, there will never be a perfect and all encompassing solution, but allowing people to commit crimes with impunity, is definitely not the right direction.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The polled roughly 1400 people, 11% favor abolishing it. So about 144 people. Thats not many.

Show me examples of politicians running on that platform. Mayors advocating it. Etc...

23% of liberals favor abolishing the police and another 17% are unsure. Extrapolate that out to millions of liberals out there then I'd say that fits the definition of "many" pretty well.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

23% of liberals favor abolishing the police and another 17% are unsure. Extrapolate that out to millions of liberals out there then I'd say that fits the definition of "many" pretty well.

where are you seeing those numbers?

[Lathum]

dola- found it, you are still talking about a very small sample size.

[NobodyHere]

That's still a good sample size for a national poll.

If you know of any polling that shows different results then please share it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Two things here and to clarify, outside of media, which paints two very different pictures, depending on lean, and neither does a good job capturing the whole picture. My reference was more to the constant abuse they take while doing their jobs, often from complete pieces of shit, trying to instigate their own viral moment with an angry cop. You would honestly be shocked at the amount of crap officers get while responding to the simplest of calls. Yeah, it's part of the job and should be expected from those that have little to no respect for anything civil or lawful. But it drains you and when just one cop responds, even engaging with words, or trying to move someone away from a volatile situation, it gets put out everywhere. For each one of these there are thousands of interactions that people poking them don't get what they want.

And don't mistake this as blind defense, LEOs acting badly still need to be called out and held accountable. In terms of the other professions you mentioned, when was the last time those other two professions were presented as anything but heroes in the media? Yet they are prone to mistakes that cost lives, insensitivity and all the other flaws that some officers possess. It just isn't good print in most cases.



This is good shit and mostly viable, more on the non-violent crimes in a bit, which should be pushed back on. I don't think Police would object too harshly to any of those outside of the non-violent crimes piece. All of the other ideas help Police, but they will also all require resources, which refute the defund argument. One thing that needs to be decriminalized nationally is weed, and the three areas taxes from doing that would help the most would be law enforcement, mental health and education/school security. Plus expunge records for MJ related offenses nationally so these people have a path to become contributing members of society, which will impact crime.

In terms of decriminalizing things like petty theft, you have seen the impact of that in some places, California as a big example with the smash and grabs, freight train looting etc. These are not victimless crimes as they affect bottom line, which affects consumer prices. In addition, the more people with criminal leanings get away with, the more they will push the envelope. Soon, business owne4rs will get fed up and take matters into their own hands, then these non-violent crimes will become violent, either with a business owner defending their property, or being attacked for trying to do so. By not letting people that do this shit go scott free, you reduce the chance of things escalating to violence, by not making it attractive.

Don't reward people with no punishment for being idiots. If you want to reform these folks, or not ruin their lives for being selfish idiots, offer a path to expungement, while making them responsible for restitution, manual labor crews/community service (cleaning roads, poor neighborhoods, etc) with the end result being if they stay out of trouble for x years they are good.

They don't, then they serve time and lose their opportunity to atone. Finally, get tougher on crimes that involve any type of weapon or result in any type of injury. Put out a deterrent, while also adding reforms in the penal system to reward someone that serves their time and stays out of trouble after release. It is working well in some Scandinavian countries.

Bottom line is, there will never be a perfect and all encompassing solution, but allowing people to commit crimes with impunity, is definitely not the right direction.

Most service workers deal with considerably more abuse, make a fraction of what officers make, and can't retaliate and must follow the law.

I'm not saying decriminalize property theft. I'm talking more about marijuana. And with other drugs, the goal should be getting people drug treatment which not only saves taxpayer money in the long run, but is more humane.

Speaking of theft, asset forfeitures are currently more than all burglary losses combined in this country. A wildly unpopular tactic that has only grown.

And then you have the fact that law enforcement ignores theft if the individual is wealthy enough or it is being done by a corporation. Wage theft tops robbery, auto theft, burglary, and larceny in this country combined. So the policing of that is wildly disproportional and another reason why many people don't trust the police or feel they work for them.

[Edward64]

I'm surprised moderates was at 12%.

This was Jun 2020. I assume it'll be less now. Good thing that craziness has withered away some.

[Atocep]

I will say Dems lost the messaging on defund the police and it's killing them in some elections. They let the GOP frame the Dems messaging by using the fringe element of the party that wants all police abolished.

The GOP has an either you're with us or against us attitude which means everyone is on board with the message. Dems are still trying to have nuanced messaging with varying opinions within the party. With the current partisanship in the country that's how you lose elections.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I will say Dems lost the messaging on defund the police and it's killing them in some elections. They let the GOP frame the Dems messaging by using the fringe element of the party that wants all police abolished.

The GOP has an either you're with us or against us attitude which means everyone is on board with the message. Dems are still trying to have nuanced messaging with varying opinions within the party. With the current partisanship in the country that's how you lose elections.

They literally have control of the House, Senate, and Presidency.

I don't think policing played much of a role in any of this. It was mostly about race. That's a far more motivating factor.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Most service workers deal with considerably more abuse, make a fraction of what officers make, and can't retaliate and must follow the law.
.

This is not even remotely true and you know it. You're merely spouting your personal spin here with absolutely no basis in fact. Tell me the last time you saw waitress being heckled and filmed by multiple tables in a restaurant on a daily basis. You're telling me that those customers would have been allowed to do that?

Again, you have absolutely zero credibility speaking on this piece until you go on a ride along and see for yourself. Chicago would be a great place to do that.

We agree on the Marijuana, but you should have stated that as non-violent crime encompasses a hell of a lot more than drugs.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They literally have control of the House, Senate, and Presidency.

I don't think policing played much of a role in any of this. It was mostly about race. That's a far more motivating factor.

Support for defund the police has dropped significantly this year and candidates wanting increased police presence did well in the California and other primaries.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Support for defund the police has dropped significantly this year and candidates wanting increased police presence did well in the California and other primaries.

As they should have and it sends a message to politicians to get better connected to their constituents, which Dems need to hear, so they quit missing on all the Softballs that the GOP lobs at them, just begging to be taken advantage of.

At this stage of the game, minus peoples frustration with inflation, there should be no way the GOP takes control of both chambers in November, but sadly that is where we are heading.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

This is not even remotely true and you know it. You're merely spouting your personal spin here with absolutely no basis in fact. Tell me the last time you saw waitress being heckled and filmed by multiple tables in a restaurant on a daily basis. You're telling me that those customers would have been allowed to do that?

Again, you have absolutely zero credibility speaking on this piece until you go on a ride along and see for yourself. Chicago would be a great place to do that.

We agree on the Marijuana, but you should have stated that as non-violent crime encompasses a hell of a lot more than drugs.

Have you ever worked a retail job? It's pretty brutal. I see cops all the time and have rarely witnessed what you're describing. And if that did take place, those people would be falsely arrested or have the shit kicked out of them. Usually, when a citizen gives a cop attitude, there are consequences. And again, if they are being treated poorly by the public, there is probably a good reason why.

Protests are a different story. There is definitely a lot of backlash at those. But there are also a lot of documented crimes committed by police and no arrests made. So I can see why people would be upset at police for failing to do their job.

Chicago doesn't really do ride alongs for the general public anymore. It's reserved for politicians, celebrities, and writers from friendly media outlets. Also, two cops murdered my Aunt a few decades ago and much of the department attempted to cover it up. Thankfully someone admitted to it in a broader FBI investigation and they were able to convict the murderers on federal charges. But the other cops who helped cover up the murder of an innocent woman never saw any kind of justice. So it's not the company I'd choose to keep. And standing outside a school shooting as parents are zip-tied to prevent them from helping seems like a miserable experience.

People aren't owed respect. They have to earn it.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Have you ever worked a retail job? It's pretty brutal. I see cops all the time and have rarely witnessed what you're describing. And if that did take place, those people would be falsely arrested or have the shit kicked out of them. Usually, when a citizen gives a cop attitude, there are consequences. And again, if they are being treated poorly by the public, there is probably a good reason why.

Protests are a different story. There is definitely a lot of backlash at those. But there are also a lot of documented crimes committed by police and no arrests made. So I can see why people would be upset at police for failing to do their job.

Chicago doesn't really do ride alongs for the general public anymore. It's reserved for politicians, celebrities, and writers from friendly media outlets. Also, two cops murdered my Aunt a few decades ago and much of the department attempted to cover it up. Thankfully someone admitted to it in a broader FBI investigation and they were able to convict the murderers on federal charges. But the other cops who helped cover up the murder of an innocent woman never saw any kind of justice. So it's not the company I'd choose to keep. And standing outside a school shooting as parents are zip-tied to prevent them from helping seems like a miserable experience.

People aren't owed respect. They have to earn it.

Yes I have and was never treated badly, albeit a different time, but my kids have held jobs in the service industries in these times and don't relate near the stories my son in law enforcement, the guys I know in law enforcement and what I have seen on ride alongs in bad parts of town show.

Every thing you mention relating to Cops, is heinous and needs to be addressed, punished, etc but again, you say you are not the company you choose to keep, meaning you refuse to acknowledge the 1000's of positive, neutral interactions that occur in relation to the bad.

That is literally the same as Blake Masters cherry picking high crime areas in Chicago to blame all black people for mass shootings and gun violence. For sure have your opinion on police and we get you don't like them, that's fine. But damn, be reasonable. Respect should be given as a courtesy and lost if one does not deserve it. That is why we have the divides we do right now, everybody judges the appearance, politics, beliefs and not the person.

[RainMaker]

No, it's just my opinion. I find police officers in this country to be corrupt, biased, and some of the worst ROI of our tax dollars. I'm sure there are very good people who are cops, but I also know they don't do enough to rid forces of the bad ones.

Maybe there are people who are assholes to cops for no reason. But I believe that most of the people who are not respectful toward cops have a reason for it. You can ask just about anyone if they've had a bad experience with an officer and they'll have a story to tell you. Cops don't respect me or my city, so I don't know why I should care if the guy with the Punisher tattoo had his feelings hurt because someone didn't hold the door open for them at Wendys.

[Ksyrup]

I'm about the whitest white guy who ever whited, and even I have a story about an asshole cop.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Maybe there are people who are assholes to cops for no reason. But I believe that most of the people who are not respectful toward cops have a reason for it. You can ask just about anyone if they've had a bad experience with an officer and they'll have a story to tell you. Cops don't respect me or my city, so I don't know why I should care if the guy with the Punisher tattoo had his feelings hurt because someone didn't hold the door open for them at Wendys.

To me this is the worst part. I've had bad experiences with customers and with employees in customer service, to use a corollary to one of your comparisons. That gives me zero right whatsoever to treat the next one of those people I find poorly because of a past experience with someone completely different who fits into that 'group' or 'box'. That's a thoroughly disgusting approach.

We need to treat people as what they are. People. Individuals. People who have stories about asshole cops tells me nothing. There are people with stories about asshole everythings, and human nature being what it is, those stories are often embellished (just as police often have the urge to embellish the behavior of those they interact with).

There are so many examples we have of body cams showing people just flat out making things up - and no, I'm not minimizing the many examples of police doing horrible things either. I have an asshole cop story too, albeit only a very mild one. I would hope that among people on this board, who generally - much to their credit - have a strong affinity for knocking down negative stereotypes, that we would be better than this at not erecting entirely new ones.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by BYU14

At this stage of the game, minus peoples frustration with inflation, there should be no way the GOP takes control of both chambers in November, but sadly that is where we are heading.

Even without inflation it would be a major historic outlier if it didn't happen. When you have one party in power in a midterm election with close margins in Congress, that's just what almost always happens.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

People aren't owed respect. They have to earn it.

Agree that they’re not owed it, but IMHO for a better society, the default position should be to respect other individuals, unless that individual (not group) has shown that they don’t deserve it.

While your default position seems to be that the police are wrong in all cases, TBF your list of things that would improve the force are good suggestions, and I agree should improve the service.

[Thomkal]

Senator Murphy announces a bipartisan deal on gun control:


Chris Murphy on Twitter: "🚨NEWS: We have a deal. Today a bipartisan group of 20 Senators (10 D and 10 R) is announcing a breakthrough agreement on gun violence - the first in 30 years - that will save lives.

I think you’ll be surprised at the scope of our framework.

1/ Here’s what it includes:"

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

To me this is the worst part. I've had bad experiences with customers and with employees in customer service, to use a corollary to one of your comparisons. That gives me zero right whatsoever to treat the next one of those people I find poorly because of a past experience with someone completely different who fits into that 'group' or 'box'. That's a thoroughly disgusting approach.

The difference is that the good cops protect the bad cops. Your comparison would be more accurate if the "good" customers vehemently defended the bad customers actions, lied to protect them, and even broke the law doing so.

Police have to work as a unit and if the good cops allow the bad cops to do bad things, it should reflect on the entire department

[Edward64]

Noticed that Biden broke the 40% approval level on 538, currently 39.8% which is the lowest for his Presidency.

Not sure what the timing is but he should be rolling up his sleeves soon and campaigning for the Dems (or not I guess).

I can see him getting a bounce if Russia is pushed back (not stale mate). A bounce back on the markets will help. I can see the SCOTUS abortion ruling (assuming same as the preview we saw) and his reaction/promises will galvanize the base.

But even if inflation improves, it will only improve some and there's enough negatives to last through Nov. Don't think there are any other major bills that will move the dial (even the Gun bill).

So its pretty much a given that Dems will lose ground in the mid-terms (as that is true for most Presidencies). Likely lose the Senate but will they lose the House too (probably)?

[Lathum]

I find it amazing the same people who support Trump are making a big deal of Biden getting his foot stuck in a bike pedal. Could you imagine what it would be like if Trump got on a bike.

[JPhillips]

The Texas GOP this weekend added to their platform a call to repeal the Voting Rights Act and a call to have a referendum on secession in 2023.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The Texas GOP this weekend added to their platform a call to repeal the Voting Rights Act and a call to have a referendum on secession in 2023.

Theater for the ignorant...

[JPhillips]

Other planks in the TX GOP include, Biden isn't the legitimate President, states should be able to nullify federal laws, and the legislature should elect all statewide offices rather than voters.

Is there much of anything besides slavery they aren't trying to bring back from 1860?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Theater for the ignorant...

Call me old-fashioned, but I think that party platforms are where you go to learn what a party believes. If someone wants to register or remain registered as a Republican in Texas, this is the platform of the party they are joining or remaining in.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Other planks in the TX GOP include, Biden isn't the legitimate President, states should be able to nullify federal laws, and the legislature should elect all statewide offices rather than voters.

Is there much of anything besides slavery they aren't trying to bring back from 1860?

Thankfully they outlawed slavery, but otherwise, they are suggesting that the federal government lacks the authority to overturn slavery if the state still wants it.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Call me old-fashioned, but I think that party platforms are where you go to learn what a party believes. If someone wants to register or remain registered as a Republican in Texas, this is the platform of the party they are joining or remaining in.

my party platforms

[PilotMan]

Fuck the Texas GOP, and fuck those who support them.

Texas GOP party adopts anti-LGBTQ platform, refers to being gay as ‘abnormal’

The section includes a formal position declaring the state’s GOP party is against giving a special legal status to gay men or women and that they support people who oppose homosexuality based on faith, religion or a belief in “traditional values.”

“Homosexuality is an abnormal lifestyle choice,” the platform document reads. “We believe there should be no granting of special legal entitlements or creation of special status for homosexual behavior, regardless of state of origin.”

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Call me old-fashioned, but I think that party platforms are where you go to learn what a party believes. If someone wants to register or remain registered as a Republican in Texas, this is the platform of the party they are joining or remaining in.

Yep, 100%.

[GrantDawg]

You see, that all sounds terrible. But what if I tell you the other side is forgiving $10,000 in student loans to people? Makes the GOP look better doesn't ?

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