Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I would be surprised if the Air Force Falcons have ever made any money in the bowls they have gone to. Local paper talks about $250-500k loss each time.

Figures aren't available for the Air Force Academy, but the top four programs in the MWC turned a profit last year. I can't find info on whether the Mountain West divides bowl revenue equally, but it's worth noting that the BCS pays out money to the non-auto qualifier conferences every year, and that amount - even if none of their teams were selected to a BCS bowl - would be enough, split between all conference teams, to cover that amount of bowl loss.

I don't think many people realize that the BCS system pays out money each year to every conference.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

UT is in a difficult position right now. They were in a bit of a pickle before due to limited options. With UT now having only two options (B12 or Independent), they have very little power in any term negotiations. Amazing to see this huge of a swing in power. OU now has UT by the balls and can do pretty much whatever they want.

Amazing really? It was amazing to me that the Big 12 let them get away with the LHN in the first place. The fact that it has now destroyed the conference and made UT an unfavorable organization to negotiate with is very un-amazing to me. If UT wants their own network, then they should go independent. If they want to be in a conference, then they need to be an equal partner. Do you think the SEC would have let Alabama get away with having their own network? Florida? They'd have said "see ya."

[bhlloy]

I'm a bit torn... I have to admit I was pretty excited about the possibility of getting a school with the prestige of OU into the Pac-12 but wouldn't particularly be excited about having to add anyone else other than Texas to get there. And the more I think about it, the more I don't want the conference and the rivalries that have built up with the Arizona schools diluted. I think this is the sensible thing to do.

The Big East comes out as the huge loser in all of this. Not sure where they go now except promote Villanova and become a complete football non-entity. They have to be close to losing their BCS bid now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

With UT now having only two options (B12 or Independent

Umm ... when did the SEC and/or the ACC go out of play? Did I miss a Twitter feed somewhere?

[sooner333]

Well, that was embarrassing. Now OU is stuck in an embarrassment of a conference with an egg on its face.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Well, that was embarrassing. Now OU is stuck in an embarrassment of a conference with an egg on its face.

Come to the SEC. We'll leave the light on for ya.

[timmynausea]

Another Pete Thamel tweet:

My final thought for the night is that I'll be STUNNED, after talking to 3 people today, if Mizzou ends up in SEC.

[RainMaker]

Darren Rovell tweeted that the Pac-12 would have had to have generated an additional $1.8 billion with the addition of those 4 teams to keep the same money going to each school.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, I just don't think it was worth it unless Texas was on the table without the LHN.

I have full faith that Larry Scott made the right decision, put it that way.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

New York doesn't give a shit about college football. It's like many other Northeast cities. I don't know why people think this is some hidden gem and that any school in the area would magically transform New York into a ratings powerhouse. The city has a huge mix of alumni from all over the Northeast. I wouldn't be surprised if UConn football brought in better ratings in New York than Syracuse.

How does the city not being devoted to one team specifically = "New York doesn't give a shit about college football"? Seriously, have you ever been there on Saturdays? Go and find any decent sized bar that isn't dedicated as the alumni spot or the gamewatch party for any large school. I can probably go down the top 25 and name you two bars for each school off the top of my head.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Logan

How does the city not being devoted to one team specifically = "New York doesn't give a shit about college football"? Seriously, have you ever been there on Saturdays? Go and find any decent sized bar that isn't dedicated as the alumni spot or the gamewatch party for any large school. I can probably go down the top 25 and name you two bars for each school off the top of my head.

Their ratings say otherwise. They were like 2nd to last in terms of markets for the last BCS Championship game. They consistently are near the bottom.

I'm not shitting on the city or the sport there, just saying it's not a big college football market and doesn't have an allegience toward one team.

[Ksyrup]

OK, so let's assume (I know, I know) that everything that went down yesterday comes to pass - PAC12 stays as is for the foreseeable future, and Texas and OU come to some agreement to stick together and all the Big 12 teams except A&M stay in the conference. If Missouri is truly off the table, where does the SEC look for #14? Do they go after one of the remaining Big East teams, even though WVU doesn't seem to be appealing to them? Do they make a run at 1 ACC team and try to convince them to swallow a $20M buyout? Is the Big East reallly going to stick together - and if so, did they ask UConn, Rutgers, Villanova, WVU, and whomever else to pull their apps to the other conferences? Is the ACC done expanding?

Seems the SEC is kinda stuck. You can't seriously think they'll stick with 13 teams for even 1 season. But I'm not sure there's a move that makes sense for them without raiding the ACC.

[Ksyrup]

It's kinda funny that Texas caused all of these problems with the Big 12, giving OU the opportunity to look for a new conference, and in the end it was Texas that killed OU's chance to move to a new conference because of the same issue that caused the Big 12 split to begin with. I guess the Pac-12 wasn't interested in OU/OSU without Texas. They are joined at the hip, whether OU likes it or not.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'm a bit torn... I have to admit I was pretty excited about the possibility of getting a school with the prestige of OU into the Pac-12 but wouldn't particularly be excited about having to add anyone else other than Texas to get there. And the more I think about it, the more I don't want the conference and the rivalries that have built up with the Arizona schools diluted. I think this is the sensible thing to do.

The Big East comes out as the huge loser in all of this. Not sure where they go now except promote Villanova and become a complete football non-entity. They have to be close to losing their BCS bid now.

Agree with all of this. I was excited about adding Texas and Oklahoma, but not if Texas was going to still want special deals. Glad the Pac-12 refused to give them any special concessions.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

The Big East comes out as the huge loser in all of this. Not sure where they go now except promote Villanova and become a complete football non-entity. They have to be close to losing their BCS bid now.

They are looking to add Navy and Air Force.

[Ksyrup]

Ha!

bcfremeau Brian Fremeau
Texas should seize this opportunity and launch LHN2, LHNClassic, LHNU, LHN the Magazine and LHN the Weekend

[timmynausea]

Despite what Marinotto said about everybody in Big East football pledging to stick together, it's already leaked that 2-3 schools at the football meeting wouldn't pledge:

One official in the Big East who requested anonymity said that was not an accurate assessment of the sentiment in the room. The official said league schools are committed to recruiting more schools but did not make any pledge to remaining in the league until it's clear what the league will look like.

The official also said about four or five of the Big East schools are committed to keeping the league together, but the other two or three need to know where the league is headed before a firm commitment is made.

The people pledging their allegiance to each other merely have no other options at the moment.

Edit to add the link to the full story: http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-realignment/1

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Ha!

bcfremeau Brian Fremeau
Texas should seize this opportunity and launch LHN2, LHNClassic, LHNU, LHN the Magazine and LHN the Weekend

He left out LHN3 and LHNOcho

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Darren Rovell tweeted that the Pac-12 would have had to have generated an additional $1.8 billion with the addition of those 4 teams to keep the same money going to each school.

Over what time? 15 to 20 years likely. That would have happened, especially if LHN were folded into the PAC 12 tv model.

This wasn't about money. This was Scott meeting with Texas the last few days and realizing this was not a partnership of equals. He realized he could never control Texas and it wouldn't work.

Rumors around here are that the meeting between MU and OU presidents is to discuss going to SEC together with A&M. Problem is SEC wants WVU and not OSU.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Well, that was embarrassing. Now OU is stuck in an embarrassment of a conference with an egg on its face.

I feel for OU. I think Larry Scott did the same thing to OU that Jim Delaney did to MU last year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Rumors around here are that the meeting between MU and OU presidents is to discuss going to SEC together with A&M. Problem is SEC wants WVU and not OSU.

Wouldn't that make 15? Who are those rumors hyping as #16?

[Ksyrup]

The problem seems to be that OU was always tied at the hip to Texas. Doesn't sound like OU was a serious consideration without Texas.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Wouldn't that make 15? Who are those rumors hyping as #16?

If I'm reading it right, he's saying:

#13 A&M
#14 Oklahoma
#15 Missouri
#16 WVU/Oklahoma State

16 is the sticking point as Oklahoma wants to bring OSU and the SEC prefers WVU.

[Ksyrup]

Is it "prefers," or is it "must take"?

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is it "prefers," or is it "must take"?

You lost me. Who is forcing them to take WVU?

[Ksyrup]

Sorry, I was referring to Oklahoma State - I'm not really sure the question is OU and OSU or WVU, but OU/OSU or nothing.

[kcchief19]

This is just a tremendous cluster fuck. There is simply no way this works for the Big 12. OU and Texas are rumored to be discussing a 5-year commitment to the Big 12. No decent school is going to join the Big 12 without iron clad guarantees beyond 5 years.

If conference stays at 9, TV contracts are in jeopardy because they are based on guarantee of 10 teams. Half the conference is going to wish they were somewhere else.

But no one is going anywhere unless the PAC 12, Big Ten or SEC expands. The Big 12 is a welfare couple with 7 kids who can't afford to get divorced.

[Ksyrup]

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
Also hearing TCU is exploring the possibility of returning to the Mountain West instead joining the Big East next season.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

This is just a tremendous cluster fuck. There is simply no way this works for the Big 12. OU and Texas are rumored to be discussing a 5-year commitment to the Big 12. No decent school is going to join the Big 12 without iron clad guarantees beyond 5 years.

If conference stays at 9, TV contracts are in jeopardy because they are based on guarantee of 10 teams. Half the conference is going to wish they were somewhere else.

But no one is going anywhere unless the PAC 12, Big Ten or SEC expands. The Big 12 is a welfare couple with 7 kids who can't afford to get divorced.

I'd agree in regards to the 5 year timeframe. It's going to have to be longer than that if they want to piece it together.

As for the teams, it looks like the Mormons want on board.

DeepShadesofBlue.com - Source: BYU Poised to Join Big 12

Oklahoma has always said it had to be 12 teams for them to stay. We'll see if they stick to that demand.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Local KC radio reporting that OU's Boren talked with SEC last night about OU/OSU/MU to SEC. The SEC declined that option. Once again, the hangup appears to be OSU in that case.

Edit: Also said that SEC likely will stand pat rather than pursue WVU.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'd agree in regards to the 5 year timeframe. It's going to have to be longer than that if they want to piece it together.

As for the teams, it looks like the Mormons want on board.

DeepShadesofBlue.com - Source: BYU Poised to Join Big 12

Oklahoma has always said it had to be 12 teams for them to stay. We'll see if they stick to that demand.

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
While some Big 12 sources see BYU as a target, source close to situation says its "doubtful" BYU would want to join volatile B12 right now.



Which makes sense. All they have to do is look at Boise State and TCU's moves to see how quickly something can change.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by molson

I wonder if there'll ever be a day that the conference stuff is relatively "settled" or if all this is just going to be an ongoing story for the next 30 years.

Has history given any indication that things settle down? Never for more than about a dozen years at a time...

[bronconick]

This entire expansion mess is like a slow drip. Next year there will be one more team thinking "Hey, I'd like to go there now," and everyone will talk to everyone with all these rumors of 4 teams going here, 4 going there, 6 here and 3 there getting together, and after 6 months of talking, two teams total will change again. And the same thing will happen the next year, and the next year. I wish there was some authority that made everyone sit down and sign 10-20 year agreements not to move and give us all a few years off. And I wish for a million dollars.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Has history given any indication that things settle down? Never for more than about a dozen years at a time...

This last year does seem a little different than what happened in the past though. Now every rumor has ramifications for every conference. I doubt the Pac-10 even noticed when the ACC raided the Big East last time, but now one little move sets off a huge chain reaction.

[MacroGuru]

I think BYU goes to the BIG 12 if they get at least a 5 yr guarantee out of the big schools...

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

ChipBrownOB Chip Brown
While some Big 12 sources see BYU as a target, source close to situation says its "doubtful" BYU would want to join volatile B12 right now.



Which makes sense. All they have to do is look at Boise State and TCU's moves to see how quickly something can change.

If the Big East and Big 12 implode and the other conferences expand, where would that leave BYU? Would they still try to continue the indy route? The Mountain West would look like it could be in good position to keep TCU and get some of the Big 12 cast-offs.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

I think BYU goes to the BIG 12 if they get at least a 5 yr guarantee out of the big schools...

OK, but what if 2 weeks after that "guarantee" is given, Missouri heads to the SEC? Given the level of trust that exists between all of them, don't you have to factor in the probability that a team or teams make a move well within the 5 years? Heck, the ACC just bumped its exit fee to $20M and added 2 schools, and I'm still hearing whispers of VT or FSU to the SEC.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

OK, but what if 2 weeks after that "guarantee" is given, Missouri heads to the SEC? Given the level of trust that exists between all of them, don't you have to factor in the probability that a team or teams make a move well within the 5 years? Heck, the ACC just bumped its exit fee to $20M and added 2 schools, and I'm still hearing whispers of VT or FSU to the SEC.

As long as UT continues to do anything other than equal revenue distribution, the specter of total collapse of the Big 12 conference still looms, regardless of any guarantee.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

OK, but what if 2 weeks after that "guarantee" is given, Missouri heads to the SEC? Given the level of trust that exists between all of them, don't you have to factor in the probability that a team or teams make a move well within the 5 years? Heck, the ACC just bumped its exit fee to $20M and added 2 schools, and I'm still hearing whispers of VT or FSU to the SEC.

The whispers will always be there and honestly I think as long as the big dogs stay put, the Big 12 will be fine. And if BYU hangs their hat on the Big 12 and it implodes, they will go the route they are now, independent.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

The whispers will always be there and honestly I think as long as the big dogs stay put, the Big 12 will be fine. And if BYU hangs their hat on the Big 12 and it implodes, they will go the route they are now, independent.

not only will the wispers be there, but it's pretty laid out now what everyone's options are.

OU is tied to OSU on any move and OSU will only go somewhere if OU leads them there. (only option at this point is BXII or lower)

TT is tied to UT and will only go with UT, and only if they too are accepted, which on thier own they are not wanted. (only option is BXII or lower)

UT will only move if they can keep TLN as it is. (Option is BXII or indy w/ olympic sports at a lower tier)

BYU would be safe throwing their cards into the BXII mess as long as they know what they are getting into ahead of time. Which is a conference that will have 4 stable members, themself, a group of 3-4 that may be interchanging (KU, KSU, ISU & Missouri) along with a possible 2 addons to make 12 in the future.

IF it all falls apart again they can go back to what they did this year.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Logan

How does the city not being devoted to one team specifically = "New York doesn't give a shit about college football"? Seriously, have you ever been there on Saturdays? Go and find any decent sized bar that isn't dedicated as the alumni spot or the gamewatch party for any large school. I can probably go down the top 25 and name you two bars for each school off the top of my head.

The New York Nielsen market includes North Jersey, Long Island, Rockland/Westchester, Fairfield County CT, the PA county next to Sussex, and the Upstate NY counties south of Ulster. The low ratings for college football aren't surprising. There is only one BCS school in the market, which traditionally (until the past decade) hasn't been a part of the bowl season, and is mostly relevant in only 1/3 of the market. Corollaries to this include: state schools in the Northeast generally don't play at the BCS level, NY has a very decentralized state school system; and with the concentration of private schools in the region, northeasterners tend to view their state schools as safety schools (for better or worse) rather than their dream destination. These all play a role in a northeastern apathy towards State U football.

Sure, you have a lot of fans who root for teams other than Rutgers, either transplanted alums or locals with other developed rooting interests (as a former NJ resident, Penn State and Notre Dame come to mind). I don't think there are enough of these groups to sway viewership. The transplanted alums in Manhattan won't help their case by watching their games in bars or going home for the holidays (if they are Nielsen households), as those views won't be counted in the ratings...

[timmynausea]

Apparently Swofford just said on Jack Arute's radio show that West Virginia has not been rejected by the ACC, and that the only votes so far were Pitt and Syracuse. I still think WVU won't wind up in the ACC, but I guess that validates the "outright lies" comment yesterday at least.

[timmynausea]

More and more rumors about BYU, WVU and Louisville to the Big 12, but I have no read on how WVU feels about this possibility at this point:

Big 12 to discuss commissioner Dan Beebe's job status, source says - ESPN

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Apparently Swofford just said on Jack Arute's radio show that West Virginia has not been rejected by the ACC, and that the only votes so far were Pitt and Syracuse. I still think WVU won't wind up in the ACC, but I guess that validates the "outright lies" comment yesterday at least.

Could that be because there hasn't been a formal "no" vote, but all indications are informally that they would not be accepted? That would fit within Swofford's statement and still leave the rumors intact.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Could that be because there hasn't been a formal "no" vote, but all indications are informally that they would not be accepted? That would fit within Swofford's statement and still leave the rumors intact.

Maybe it's just semantics. I just think it's interesting that with all of the backroom talking surely going on, WVU is the one school with headline news for "rejection" and the story comes from a "Big East official". Where are the Pac 12 rejects Oklahoma headlines or even SEC rejects Oklahoma headlines if they really are passing because of the OSU issue? Only the Big East would try to get ahead by publicly torpedoing one of their best programs when so much is still up in the air.

[Ksyrup]

Torpedoing in what way? If the goal is to create an expectation or sentiment that WVU has no shot at the ACC or SEC to slow down their momentum to leave, then that works in the Big East's favor to retain them. It's every school (and conference) for itself right now. The Big East has to look out for its best interests, too. And there are a bunch of people who want to keep their jobs. I guess it's in the eye of the beholder...

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Torpedoing in what way? If the goal is to create an expectation or sentiment that WVU has no shot at the ACC or SEC to slow down their momentum to leave, then that works in the Big East's favor to retain them. It's every school (and conference) for itself right now. The Big East has to look out for its best interests, too. And there are a bunch of people who want to keep their jobs. I guess it's in the eye of the beholder...

I realize their interest in doing it. I don't see it actually accomplishing anything in terms of making WVU stay put, though. If WVU can leave, they will. Are the ACC or SEC going to be swayed by reports of rejection if they want WVU? If WVU can't leave, then this is merely more needless bad P.R. for the Big East. That's the message you want on the front pages of newspapers about one of your teams? I guess they should just get billboards made that say, "Big East Football: The ACC and SEC rejected all of our remaining teams."

[Ksyrup]

True. I guess with so much information out there swaying public opinion, they may only care about the ultimate goal of "keeping the band together" and worry about the PR fallout later. But I agree, it doesn't make the Big East teams look great. Especially when the other story is about Villanova wanting in the ACC and that mostly results in laughs.

[kcchief19]

Deloss Dodds has gone out and stated UT's position: equal sharing of first and second tier rights, third tier rights untouchable. OU says that is a deal breaker, which makes Texas the lone man out.

At this point, it appears Texas is running put of options. If the believe LHN is the untouchable money tree, the Big 12 and maybe ACC are their only options. With OU's OSU problem, they have pretty much made the Big 12 their only option.

The only school with apparently an option is Missouri. Apparently everyone wants the SEC except Chancellor Deaton. There is an emergency curators meeting Thursday morning: that will likely be when Missouri decides whether to jump to the SEC or stick it out in the Big 12.

The only way for the Big 12 to get stability is for OU to join with the other 7 and dictate terms to Texas.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Deloss Disdain has gone out and stated UT's position: equal sharing of first and second tier rights, third tier rights untouchable. OU says that is a deal breaker, which makes Texas the lone man out.

Texas seems to think that since they sabotaged OU's option out, that they are guaranteed to keep everyone in the Big 12. This could be the shortest reconciliation ever if they continue with that stance.