Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Not terribly surprising info here, but it was money that Sony was leaving on the table in the previous generation.

PlayStation Plus subs to generate $1.2 billion for Sony by 2017 | GamesIndustry International

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Not terribly surprising info here, but it was money that Sony was leaving on the table in the previous generation.

PlayStation Plus subs to generate $1.2 billion for Sony by 2017 | GamesIndustry International

Not sure it shows money left on the table, if not for the selling point of free multiplayer the PS3 may have gotten absolutely destroyed by the 360 last generation.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by cartman

/start MBBF mode

It is clear that Sony is trying to play catch-up to Microsoft in the non-gaming area. It is quite embarrassing that they announce such a paltry set of features that just barely challenges what Microsoft has already announced for TV integration. Just shaking my head as to why they are not sticking to their E3 statements of focusing on being a great gaming platform. Why are they being so muddled with their message?

/end MBBF mode

God, I feel dirty.

Bravo sir, bravo!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Not sure it shows money left on the table, if not for the selling point of free multiplayer the PS3 may have gotten absolutely destroyed by the 360 last generation.

Fair point. The global win by the PS3 likely was sparked by the free multiplayer overseas, though I think if they were giving away free games with the package like they are now, it might have been much less of an impact.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Fair point. The global win by the PS3 likely was sparked by the free multiplayer overseas, though I think if they were giving away free games with the package like they are now, it might have been much less of an impact.

ROFL

The Wii still has sold about 20 million more units than the 360 and PS3.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

ROFL

The Wii still has sold about 20 million more units than the 360 and PS3.

They're making up for it this generation, that's for sure. But a fair clarification. The PS3 was 2nd to the Wii.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

They're making up for it this generation, that's for sure. But a fair clarification. The PS3 was 2nd to the Wii.

Clarification? You told an outright falsehood! That's what we call "correction," not "clarification."

[cartman]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Clarification? You told an outright falsehood! That's what we call "correction," not "clarification."

But remember, he just wants to have an honest debate about the consoles.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by cartman

But remember, he just wants to have an honest debate about the consoles.

[Atocep]

The tsunami is starting early this generation.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Clarification? You told an outright falsehood! That's what we call "correction," not "clarification."

I've made that comment in this thread on multiple occasions. The Wii was a fantastic niche product that worked for a few years, but ultimately fell flat on its face and is no longer a player. Sony and MS are the players in this generation and the ones that this conversation should be focusing on. This is 2013, not 2009.

[SackAttack]

And yet...the Wii outsold either of the other two by a wide margin. If you're talking about a worldwide sales crown, you don't get to dismiss one of the three because you think it's "niche."

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

And yet...the Wii outsold either of the other two by a wide margin. If you're talking about a worldwide sales crown, you don't get to dismiss one of the three because you think it's "niche."

If you expand the definition to be "video game console" then it's correct. Just like the Galaxy S4 is a niche phone, the NFL is a niche sports league, and the Harry Potter series was a niche book series.

SI

[Mota]

I think the Wii is the exact opposite of niche, it expanded into many more demographics than any other console. I'm still not a fan of it and it has largely collected dust in my household, but it's as mainstream as it comes.

[mckerney]

Rumors from a NeoGAF poster who has had good info in the past.

Truthfact 1
No live stream for real reasons. Xbone architecture is still not fully completed. The latest version of the SDK a couple of weeks ago dropped performance by 15-20% across the board. Now before you get mad at MS, this happens ALL THE TIME in console development and it will eventually be fixed, but no chance for an early October release or...
Truthfact 2
... certainly not for all 21 countries. "Localization" is absolute one hundred percent BS. Period. TRUTHFACT. An excuse nobody with common sense would consider. Look at the countries dropped. Cross reference against languages spoken, official and otherwise in said countries. I said there were yield issues two months ago and the chicks have come home to roost. Knock offs for launch titles, and SmartGlass, etc. instead of the 180's "one coherent vision". Paying the price now.
Truthfact 3
Late October launch for the PS4. Sony's SDK is ready, you can basically master it to a final release right now. Today.
Truthfact 4
If you thought people were mad about Bayonetta's sequel going to Wii U, you'll be somewhat unhappy about what Microsoft is moneyhatting with Platinum. Other Japanese devs are in play too, but Kamiyatown is the only one I'm solid on. Game is NOT for North America or Europe, by the way, which makes no sense but whatever.
Truthfact 5
Bigpark has canceled their MOBA project, shifted entirely to TV focus. Dev talent to Big Tusk or gone completely. Rare on Kinect.
Truthfact 6
New MS indie policy not finalized, details post-launch
Truthfact 7
Apologies in advance. Everything I saw over the last 24 months was that there's no chance of a Kinect-less SKU. It was a solid concrete decision, firm as a beach volleyball buttocks, no matter what other changes have been going on around here.
And... weeeelllll, about that.
There's whispers of a Kinect-optional (as in, not in the box) SKU early next year. March or April. Enough smoke now that I didn't want to wait until September to say it. Launch number fallout will play its part.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Rumors from a NeoGAF poster who has had good info in the past.

This would be contrary to what we've heard thus far from the rumor mill. Last rumors I saw were that PS4 would be December and X1 would be November. I believe Sony has already said that they're going to announce the release date at this week's conference in Europe. They must feel confident that they know when the X1 is coming out if they're doing that. Their MO all year has been to wait until MS says something and then quickly trump their statement. We'll have to see.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This would be contrary to what we've heard thus far from the rumor mill. Last rumors I saw were that PS4 would be December and X1 would be November. I believe Sony has already said that they're going to announce the release date at this week's conference in Europe. They must feel confident that they know when the X1 is coming out if they're doing that. Their MO all year has been to wait until MS says something and then quickly trump their statement. We'll have to see.

I've been guessing late October (the 22nd or 29th) and mid-November (say, the 12th) for PS4 and Xbox One respectively since E3 or so, since those are the dates closest to October 26 (PS2) and November 15 (Xbox) that still fall on a Tuesday.

I'd totally buy late October/early-mid November as being the release schedules.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

OK, if MS learns anything from this generation, it should be to find any way possible to not get the worst positions in each conference. At E3, they go first and let Sony trump them. At GamesCon 2013, they get the 4 AM EDT slot while Sony yet again gets to go after them and present during the day when the North American audience can actually watch the presentation.

Regardless, a bit of news out of the MS conference in the wee hours this morning:

-FIFA '14 will be free to everyone who preorders an X1 in Europe. Obviously trying to close the value gap to the PS4 with that move.

-There will be a COD: Ghosts bundle released. No price was announced.

-Peggle 2 & Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare hit X1 before PS4.

The glaring omission was no release date was announced. If the NeoGaf poster was correct, this is likely a good move by MS. Just stay clear of another trump by Sony and wait on the release date announcement until you have a really good idea of when it will be.

So, now we wait for Sony's conference at noon EDT. Will they package a game as well to preorders? Will they announce a release date? Other surprises? Nothing at all?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

EA conference live right now. Good live feed on ign.com.

[mckerney]

The Division Confirmed for PC - UbiBlog | Ubisoft®

Best news to come out during GamesCon so far.

[cartman]

Amazon is offering a deal where if you buy a title for a 360, you can trade it in for the same title on the Xbox One and get the next gen version for $10.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423320,00.asp

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

OK, if MS learns anything from this generation, it should be to find any way possible to not get the worst positions in each conference. At E3, they go first and let Sony trump them. At GamesCon 2013, they get the 4 AM EDT slot while Sony yet again gets to go after them and present during the day when the North American audience can actually watch the presentation.

Are you seriously that petty? GamesCon is a European conference. The US already had E3. So why does it matter what time it is in the US? By the time the consoles hit the shelves, no one is going to give two shits as to what time a company had the stage at the various shows.

[SackAttack]

Watch_Dogs being a 'launch' title for Xbox One tells us something about the release date, though, since that game is slated to come out November 19.

Suggests that the release date for Xbox One, even if not yet officially confirmed, is probably in that there window.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Amazon is offering a deal where if you buy a title for a 360, you can trade it in for the same title on the Xbox One and get the next gen version for $10.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423320,00.asp

That deal is just to match the deal that's been offered by Gamestop a couple of weeks ago.

Originally Posted by cartman

Are you seriously that petty? GamesCon is a European conference. The US already had E3. So why does it matter what time it is in the US? By the time the consoles hit the shelves, no one is going to give two shits as to what time a company had the stage at the various shows.

Look no further than E3 to find out how crucial it is. Do you think MS does the same conference that they did if they went after Sony at E3? No way. Similarly, Sony has the last word in Europe and likely will have the same opportunity in Japan given that MS is basically giving that region away. The last word is crucial in any business/PR/debate and the video game industry is no different. Also, these conferences may be in different countries, but much like everything else, it's a global industry/economy. The world was watching at E3 and they'll certainly be watching today. There's a reason all the main gaming sites are streaming most of the conferences.

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Watch_Dogs being a 'launch' title for Xbox One tells us something about the release date, though, since that game is slated to come out November 19.

Suggests that the release date for Xbox One, even if not yet officially confirmed, is probably in that there window.

Good point.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

If you're a sports gamer and you don't want to buy FIFA 14 after seeing that presentation, there's something really wrong with you. It looks fantastic.

[cartman]

I'd be willing to bet good money that the time a company takes the stage at a show ranks somewhere near the level of Ouija Board or 'my dog told me to buy this console' in the decision on which console someone is going to buy. It simply just doesn't matter.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

I'd be willing to bet good money that the time a company takes the stage at a show ranks somewhere near the level of Ouija Board or 'my dog told me to buy this console' in the decision on which console someone is going to buy. It simply just doesn't matter.

Tell that to MS. I have no doubt they'd beg to differ after what they've gone through thus far this year.

[SackAttack]

It matters, but I think it matters way less than MBBF thinks it does.

It mattered at E3, because it allowed Microsoft to put a giant "kick me" sign on their own backs and then watch as Sony proceeded to kick them all over the stage.

OTOH, they've walked back the worst of the things they were getting hammered for, so at this point, 1) there's really not as much Sony can do adversarially; they're better off focusing on their own product at this point, since the damage to Microsoft has already been done and 2) as cartman points out, it's a show with a European audience. The subset of Americans who are going to tune in to a European press conference is very likely a neat overlap with the subset of Americans who have already taken up arms in one side's trenches or the other.

[sterlingice]

I think the spin is more substantial for E3 than a lesser conference. In fact, I think E3 trumps all other shows combined in terms of non-gaming media exposure.

I agree that this year's MS presentation made it really easy for Sony to do what they did and get all the positive press coming out of E3. However, the timing would have meant nothing if MS hadn't killed themselves with their decisions.

If this had been the 360 vs PS3 release show, timing wouldn't have mattered. However, since the MS presentation this year was so bad, it allowed Sony to just walk up there and say "hey, we're not Microsoft". Hell, some of Sony's E3 stuff was clearly cobbled together at the last minute for the sole purpose of bagging on the awful MS presentation. But, again, if they both have similar messages and approaches, as they usually do, then timing means nothing.

SI

[sterlingice]

Dammit. Or what SA posted while I was typing my response.

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

dola

If you're a sports gamer and you don't want to buy FIFA 14 after seeing that presentation, there's something really wrong with you. It looks fantastic.

I already preordered. Kinda sucks that it's not a launch title, and since I can't wait I'll likely have to repurchase it when I get around to picking up the next gen console (which i'm guessing will not be "OMG AT LAUNCH" but probably sometime in Q1 2014).

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Dammit. Or what SA posted while I was typing my response.

SI

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

It matters, but I think it matters way less than MBBF thinks it does.

It mattered at E3, because it allowed Microsoft to put a giant "kick me" sign on their own backs and then watch as Sony proceeded to kick them all over the stage.

OTOH, they've walked back the worst of the things they were getting hammered for, so at this point, 1) there's really not as much Sony can do adversarially; they're better off focusing on their own product at this point, since the damage to Microsoft has already been done and 2) as cartman points out, it's a show with a European audience. The subset of Americans who are going to tune in to a European press conference is very likely a neat overlap with the subset of Americans who have already taken up arms in one side's trenches or the other.

It may have let them reveal the price at the conference if they were intent on going lower than the XBox One, but other than that I don't think going second did much for them.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

PS Vita price drop effective tomorrow, $199.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

-Another pot shot at MS on the way out the door about their constant changes met with loud applause.

-Release is Nov. 15th in NA, Nov. 29th in Europe
-Release in 32 countries
-Over 1M pre-sales worldwide thus far

-Without question, the demonstration of Remote Play was one of the best parts of the presentation. Flawless switchover from PS4 to Vita on the fly. Also said that nearly all PS4 games are compatible with Remote Play.

-Surprising number of new games announced. Lots of PSN/Vita games and a few PS4 as well.

-PSN deal where you can get the big games (Battlefield 4, COD: Ghosts, AC: BF, etc.) for cheap on PS4 if you own PS3 version. Basically doing the same thing as Gamestop and Amazon deal.

-A few media announcements, but no one cares about that.

[SackAttack]

The 11/15 release date feels like a "I drink your milkshake" moment.

The original Xbox released on 11/15 with Halo as a launch title, and I expected Microsoft to plant the flag as close to that date as possible to play off of the synergy between Halo, the Xbox brand, and the TV show (which I expected to debut alongside the console).

Now they can still do that but compete with Sony for launch-day dollars, or they can cede the territory to Sony and aim for a late-October launch instead.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

-Without question, the demonstration of Remote Play was one of the best parts of the presentation. Flawless switchover from PS4 to Vita on the fly. Also said that nearly all PS4 games are compatible with Remote Play.

I love how a feature they demoed MONTHS ago between the PS3 and Vita in a TV commercial "was one of the best parts of the presentation".

[cartman]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I love how a feature they demoed MONTHS ago between the PS3 and Vita in a TV commercial "was one of the best parts of the presentation".

Don't doubt him, he said it was "Without question"

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by cartman

Don't doubt him, he said it was "Without question"

Oh, I believe him, I immediately translated it to "the best Sony could do was trot out a tired feature they had working on the last generation"

[mckerney]

Also coming, a $199 PS3 that doesn't have enough room for any games!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Oh, I believe him, I immediately translated it to "the best Sony could do was trot out a tired feature they had working on the last generation"

Especially considering just how overwhelmingly awesome the Vita has been received in the marketplace.

If the roles were reversed, and Microsoft announced that they were requiring developers to support a feature like remote play on a Windows tablet or smartphone, I'm 1000% certain that he would have a much different take on the situation, even though there would be a higher percentage of handheld users in relation to the console numbers. I'm sure we'd be hearing about how developers must hate having to support their game experience on a smaller screen and more limited controls.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

-Without question, the demonstration of Remote Play was one of the best parts of the presentation. Flawless switchover from PS4 to Vita on the fly. Also said that nearly all PS4 games are compatible with Remote Play.
.

What are the Vita sales numbers? Do people really play that over a big screen TV or smartphones?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

What are the Vita sales numbers? Do people really play that over a big screen TV or smartphones?

Courtesy of VGChartz:



SI

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

What are the Vita sales numbers? Do people really play that over a big screen TV or smartphones?

I might pick one up at some point. I'd play it over something on a larger screen for something like Persona 4 Golden that couldn't be played on any other system, though wouldn't so so in most cases. Otherwise if I were away from home I would absolutely rather play on a Vita or DS over a phone.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Courtesy of VGChartz:



SI

So this tells me the big feature release today by Sony.. isn't really that huge at all?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I might pick one up at some point. I'd play it over something on a larger screen for something like Persona 4 Golden that couldn't be played on any other system, though wouldn't so so in most cases. Otherwise if I were away from home I would absolutely rather play on a Vita or DS over a phone.

I could see a use, but it seems like a lot of money for actual use, at least for me. I'm old though.. give me a 55" TV and I'm in gaming heaven.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I could see a use, but it seems like a lot of money for actual use, at least for me. I'm old though.. give me a 55" TV and I'm in gaming heaven.

Cost is an issue holding me back from getting one so far. Even with the price drop announced I think it may have to get down to $149 or so. And gaming on a larger screen is preferable for me, but from everything I've heard about it I really want to play Persona 4 Golden.

The remote play isn't really a selling feature for me, though the fact that I already have a bunch of Vita games in my instant collection from PS+ makes me more likely to get one at some point.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by cartman

Don't doubt him, he said it was "Without question"

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Oh, I believe him, I immediately translated it to "the best Sony could do was trot out a tired feature they had working on the last generation"

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I might pick one up at some point. I'd play it over something on a larger screen for something like Persona 4 Golden that couldn't be played on any other system, though wouldn't so so in most cases. Otherwise if I were away from home I would absolutely rather play on a Vita or DS over a phone.

I'm in the same boat. I picked up a PSP once they were down to $100 and I picked up about 50 good games for the system and my total outlay was under $500 for system and games including some pricier stuff and games that retained their value (Tails in the Sky LE, the 3 Persona games, Valkyria Chronicles II, importing FM 2011, etc). But it was great to pick up games like Lumines, Patapon, Wipeout, etc for a couple bucks each, many at Gamestop B2G1 sales.

The system was not without its charms: Good little system, horrible battery life, and I still prefer Nintendo IPs. I expect and have seen more of the same this gen.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I love how a feature they demoed MONTHS ago between the PS3 and Vita in a TV commercial "was one of the best parts of the presentation".

It's one thing to say it. It's another thing to actually see it works and is relatively seamless. Unlike many apparently, I expect to see a technology actually work in real time before saying it's actually a real option. It appears everyone else just assumed it would work because Sony said so.