Kid(s) leaving home - support group

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Does he know where he wants to live after graduating?

He has every intention of staying in Miami. It would take something seismic to move him off that honestly.

[Ghost Econ]

Hurricane Hillary on the wrong side of the country then.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He has every intention of staying in Miami. It would take something seismic to move him off that honestly.

His benchmark was "minimum 4x the salary ... and even then it'd be iffy"

[JPhillips]

Dropped her off today and she was surprisingly weepy. She normally doesn't like to show weakness, but she really had some pains taking this step.

Now in a week I expect all of that to be gone, but tonight she needed some reassuring texts.

We did better than expected, mostly because we didn't stop working until we hit the car.

[Ksyrup]

Some decent news this week for once. My older daughter is starting her second full year as a 4th grade teacher. She works in a rural KY county in between Lexington and Cincy with several younger 4th grade teachers. Their kids last year showed the greatest improvement year over year than any grade in the county and they are filming them for some sort of county teaching session. So that pretty cool.

She also needed brakes and I told her I'd pay since she's still paying for grad school. I told her to quit stopping and they'd last a lot longer.

[GrantDawg]

That's great Ksyrup.

[flere-imsaho]

So, back when I was getting ready for college in the 80s I remember buying (or getting out of the library) a big book with info on hundreds of colleges, that I used to narrow things down.

And in addition I think something similar for scholarships I could apply for.

I assume all of this is online now. I've done some rudimentary searching, but a lot of it feels scammy and it's unclear which information to trust.

For anyone who's helped a kid through this lately (either finding a college, or looking for scholarships) what did you use and what do you recommend?

[Edward64]

If I had to do it all over again (and assuming you aren't filthy rich) ...

1) Go in-state. I know you don't want to limit the kid, but there's serious $ difference between in vs out of state tuition (e.g. < $20k vs > $40k). Exceptions if your kid is super brainy, talented etc.

2) Consider overseas education. From the little research I did, it really is cheaper in Europe (assuming you get accepted). My neighbor's daughter is in Spain and having a great time

3) We didn't have any real success with college scholarships. We used FAFSA but ultimately made the decision not to use it (which we regret now)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

For anyone who's helped a kid through this lately (either finding a college, or looking for scholarships) what did you use and what do you recommend?

My wife made basically a near full-time job out of all this for a couple years here, but I reached out to my kid just to confirm the answers I was going to give you.

Aside from things like the common app & FAFSA (which I don't consider to be a"scholarship" in the sense of the word I think of), we didn't consider there being any sort of "one-stop shopping" The "good" news about that is that scholarship -- merit or need -- were often a fairly lengthy list on a school by school basis.

So when you're digging into a school website for application/admission info, you can also begin the digging process on scholarships that might be available at that school. Look first for the automatics -- SAT/ACT scores, class rank, Eagle Scout & other organizational type things -- and then look specifically by either major or college (i.e. College of Liberal Arts, etc).

Then, more broadly, we dealt with local/state/national level scholarships individually. Think of every possible connection you might have to some group and explore whether they do scholarships.

I'll use our case as an example of what I'm trying to say. Not only did he apply for the obvious ones on his own eligibility -- SCV, CAR -- but also the ones through my wife -- DAR, UDC, Colonial Dames, etc. And then the next tier were things with more distant affiliations, he was eligible to apply for both Masonic scholarships (through his maternal grandfather) and USPS scholarships (through his paternal grandfather).

And then there's the stuff that's very local, things like Civitan/Lions/Elks scholarships that aren't tied to membership at all, or things like the local utility company scholarships open to children of any customer,etc.

Pro tip: there's a LOT of essay writing involved with doing a large number of scholarship applications. When possible, pick the most general topic possible from among their various prompts. I couldn't tell you how many times he was able to repurpose all or part of some essay to fit into a 2nd/3rd/4th application.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

If I had to do it all over again (and assuming you aren't filthy rich) ...

1) Go in-state. I know you don't want to limit the kid, but there's serious $ difference between in vs out of state tuition (e.g. < $20k vs > $40k). Exceptions if your kid is super brainy, talented etc.

A caveat to this I'd offer is that the out of state extra cost can vary a LOT by not only state but by school. Some schools (Ole Miss) are especially aggressive at attracting out of state students, it took only a certain qualifying score on the ACT for the out of state to be automatically waived. A friend of mine in Georgia just found out that her son can go to Alabama with all out of state costs waived because of his combination of ACT score + a "rural" designation (via some federal program I'd never heard of before)

That stuff can change on a dime though, I know UT-Knoxville is probably now going in the other direction because they'd perhaps been TOO successful at attracting out of state applicant & enrollees.

[flere-imsaho]

Thanks both, that's all really super helpful information for me starting off on all of this.

@Edward - Having gone overseas for my graduate degree, I'm familiar, and that's a great point. The younger one definitely isn't going that far away, but something we can sprinkle ideas for, for the older one. And we'll put in for FAFSA, too, though I doubt we'll get anything.

@Jon - really helpful to know to focus on the individual colleges & universities for the scholarships. I would not have known that. And defintely repurposing essays was something I suspected, good to have it confirmed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

@Jon - really helpful to know to focus on the individual colleges & universities for the scholarships. I would not have known that. And defintely repurposing essays was something I suspected, good to have it confirmed.

Yeah, that was instrumental on the application process. As it was I think he still spent probably 1/2 to 1 day per weekend working on those for several months. (that was kinda part of the deal here: you want us to make sure you're funded for all the side stuff that's part of college? Then you'll absolutely do the work needed to get as much scholarship money as you can, cause those dollars help make the fun dollars possible)

[GrantDawg]

I would only add that you should pay attention to the college rankings on financial aid. Some schools are easy to work with to get all the scholarships and grants that you can. Some could care less, and only care about how much they can get you to pay.

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[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Some could care less, and only care about how much they can get you to pay.

[cough} UVA {cough}

[GrantDawg]

UVA was on Simon's list. There was a reason he didn't end up applying.

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[flere-imsaho]

This is really good info, I can't thank you guys enough.

[Edward64]

I don't think the mom needs this support group.

Italian mother wins court case to evict two sons in their 40s | CNN

A mother’s love does have limits, it seems. At least for a 75-year-old woman in the northern Italian city of Pavia who won a court order after suing to have her sons, aged 40 and 42, removed from her house, a court clerk in Pavia told CNN Friday.

The two sons, described in court papers by their mother as “parasites,” had been living in the family apartment without contributing financially or helping around the house, according to the complaint filed by the woman, who has not been named, in a the Tribunal of Pavia district court. Both men are employed, the court documents state.

See chart for average ages in EU

[GrantDawg]

I deal with a customer regularly that is 80+. She lives in a big house with one 50-60 year old son that lives upstairs and another 50-60 year old son that lives down stairs. Neither pay her a cent for anything, just live their rent free with her cooking them regular meals.

[Edward64]

Wasn’t there an X-Files episode about that?

Seriously though, it’s not uncommon for adult kids to live at home. In Asia there’s multi-generational families in same house. But when mom asks you to leave, it’s time.

I wonder how her kids justify/rationalize their behavior.

[Edward64]

@Grantdawg

Was just wondering, is your son back from Japan or staying longer? How'd he like the trip, and did he bring you any souvenirs?

[GrantDawg]

Yes, he was there January through April. He had an absolute blast. No, he didn't buy souvenirs because he is a cheapskate. He has almost every dollar he has made while in school still in the bank. It is like pulling teeth to get him to take pictures. His favorite thing was how good and cheap the food was.

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[JonInMiddleGA]

Turns out, I'm gonna have the opposite situation for the first half of 2024.
Which I knew was the plan, but not so ... offcially.

With word of a significant price increase in his proposed lease for next year, Will decided to let the condo in Miami go. He's not expecting to be back there, at all really, until at least July. He's opted to do all his Jan/Feb bar prep studying here in Athens and then has two foreign travel trips planned while waiting for his results to come in.

So even with the cost of moving stuff, storage, etc, it just didn't make sense. to hang onto it. He'll go into a different place TBD when he returns to start working in the fall. The broker that helped him find this one assured him that it was doable, even with a preferred shorter term lease and such creating higher prices, it's still a net savings versus paying for an unoccupied place for 6-7 months.

This has been stressful as hell since it's being figured out in the middle of finals, graduation, bar prep ... and wasn't really on the agenda. But with the proposed increase, it just felt like a have-to decision.

[GrantDawg]

That sucks, Jon. I know my daughter was so happy that they were able to extend their lease without an increase. That seems to be unusual anymore.

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[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That sucks, Jon. I know my daughter was so happy that they were able to extend their lease without an increase. That seems to be unusual anymore.

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Yeah, it was somewhat expected but when you have it official and start doing the math, it was just too hard to justify.

Can't complain, he's been under the going rate for the building throughout, even with annual increases. And what they proposed wasn't out of line, it just didn't make sense with him being completely out of town for the longest stretch to date.

Once this house in Athens is finally sold, he plans to buy down there so not being stuck in a lenghty lease is a plus (though atm it looks like his purchase would land in early 2025).

I did ask whether the familiarity was worth it when he goes back and begins working but he gave a pretty mature answer IMO "it'd probably be nice but it ain't $12k-$14k worth of nice"

[Edward64]

Sounds like the right thing for him to do. BTW how's the house selling coming along?

[tarcone]

Riley is living with me. She started her Masters in August. I am happy to have her here right now.

Cori got a job in Wichita and starts in June after graduation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Sounds like the right thing for him to do. BTW how's the house selling coming along?

We'll see, I guess?

His goal is me outta here by Aug 2024 at worst.

The market here is a mixed bag. Good news is that prices in the neighborhood have been considerably better than I anticipated. Bad news is that the market is a bit slower than I'd like, around 60 days for the house next door to get under contract.

[miami_fan]

While I am still firmly in the "You're an adult, go get your own place." camp, I do find myself wondering why certain kids would leave their parents' home or why the parents would want them to leave.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

While I am still firmly in the "You're an adult, go get your own place." camp, I do find myself wondering why certain kids would leave their parents' home or why the parents would want them to leave.

I think majority of US kids leave after finding a job because they want to be independent, have their own place, spend however they want to spend their earnings, not have parents crimp their dating life etc.

I think parents wouldn't mind working kids staying with them for X years. But at a certain point, it's time to go (25-29). If my kids wanted to stay past 30+, I'd be concerned they aren't willing to be independent or responsible.

The perfect scenario for me is working kids out of the house, but living within 30 min to 2 hours away. Easy enough to visit on weekends.

I know in many other places in the world, kids would want to stay with parents until they get ready to start their own family. In Asia, there is a stronger family unit, a combination of love, guilt and duty.

[GrantDawg]

As of now, Simon plans to move home after graduation and find a job in the Atlanta area or remotely. I was surprised because I really thought he would try to find a job somewhere interesting.

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[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I think majority of US kids leave after finding a job because they want to be independent, have their own place, spend however they want to spend their earnings, not have parents crimp their dating life etc.

I think parents wouldn't mind working kids staying with them for X years. But at a certain point, it's time to go (25-29). If my kids wanted to stay past 30+, I'd be concerned they aren't willing to be independent or responsible.

The perfect scenario for me is working kids out of the house, but living within 30 min to 2 hours away. Easy enough to visit on weekends.

I know in many other places in the world, kids would want to stay with parents until they get ready to start their own family. In Asia, there is a stronger family unit, a combination of love, guilt and duty.

I have both. One is graduating and moving. One is at home and I am giving her to 25. Her masters will be complete and she will be on the marriage track or moving out of state track. I am hanging around these parts for her.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I think majority of US kids leave after finding a job because they want to be independent, have their own place, spend however they want to spend their earnings, not have parents crimp their dating life etc.

I think parents wouldn't mind working kids staying with them for X years. But at a certain point, it's time to go (25-29). If my kids wanted to stay past 30+, I'd be concerned they aren't willing to be independent or responsible.

The perfect scenario for me is working kids out of the house, but living within 30 min to 2 hours away. Easy enough to visit on weekends.

I know in many other places in the world, kids would want to stay with parents until they get ready to start their own family. In Asia, there is a stronger family unit, a combination of love, guilt and duty.

I agree that the majority of US kids will be leaving home and yes most of the people I am talking about are 1st generation Americans though not all. The adult kids I am seeing live pretty independent lives, contribute to the household financially and otherwise, and are not lacking in their dating life as far as how much they actually want to date. Of those I have seen, I would put them in three categories.

The adults who are saving for a down payment for their first home and would rather give their parents a chunk of change every month while they save instead of paying $1,800+ in rent for a one bedroom apartment to someone else or have to deal with roommates all while paying other bills.

The next group are adults who are helping their parents out or are getting help from their parents. Some are taking care of older parents with health issues and it makes financial sense for them to stay home as opposed to having their own place while shuttling back and forth to their parents. Others basically have one parent or both parents living with them in that parent's house as opposed to moving the parent(s) into a house with the child's name on the mortgage or rental agreement. On the other hand, there are also the adult children with kids of their own who live with their parents who are helping with childcare duties. To be fair, this group has usually gone out on their own but are back home. However, I am still talking mostly about people under 30 years old.

The last group are adult children who are basically roommates with their parents. They share expenses and responsibilities in the household. The children come and go as they please. The parents come and go as they please. The kids are not throwing parties to the dismay of the parents and the parents aren't throwing wild parties to the dismay of the kid. The child is probably not bringing home that person they picked up at the club to their parents' home for a nightcap but also the parents are not surprised if the long time girlfriend/boyfriend of their kid is at the breakfast table on a Saturday or Sunday morning. The kid could find and afford their own place but are not overly fussed to do so. Their parents are not overly fussed about them still being at home either.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The child is probably not bringing home that person they picked up at the club to their parents' home for a nightcap but also the parents are not surprised if the long time girlfriend/boyfriend of their kid is at the breakfast table on a Saturday or Sunday morning.

TBH this would surprise me for 1st gen.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be surprised like that, shows a lack of "respect"? I'd be fine with some notice if they were already engaged or like. And we do have at least 1 extra bedroom in the basement for any guests.

[Edward64]

Tangential but somewhat related.

Good for her.

I'm all for arranged marriages if all sides consent. But if daughter refuses and parents get all pissy about it, tough crap on them. Go live your American dream first gen. Your immigrant parents inevitably come with some baggage, not all good.

I escaped an arranged marriage to my cousin by joining the Air Force

For one Maryland girl, the American Dream came at a heavy price.

Back when Hamna Zafar, 23, was just a teenager, her family flew to Pakistan for what she believed was a routine visit with relatives. Instead, she found herself in the middle of her own engagement party to a man — her cousin — handpicked by her immigrant parents.

Rather than give up on her life in the United States, Zafar hatched a plan — to fly the coop and join the Air Force. She got her freedom, but she lost her family.

She was 19 at the time.

“I thought it was a normal family trip. Then I saw the jewelry, the dresses,” Zafar, who grew up in the United States in a traditional Muslim family, told People.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I feel like there's a different thread this should probably go in but I can't seem to find it. Graduation completed on Thursday, with our focus on family friends who were in town for the event, it took until last night to stop and make my official comments on social media.

I'm sharing those here cause, well, y'all have been on this ride a long time

"It takes a village to raise a child"

I won't lie, I mocked that phrase a fair bit when it became trendy and entered the mainstream consciousness nearly thirty years ago.

Lately, I find more nuance to it. It can have more validity in some contexts than I might have given credit for.

I've though a lot about the journey this remarkable young man has taken. And before I say another word, let me make it clear that I credit no one for his advancement along the way more than him. Without his willingness to put in the work, to combine his talents with effort, without that little to nothing happens.

That said, my mind boggles at the influences along the way.

It's funny what lingers in the mind. There's few things I've lingered on as much as remembering his first day up the little steps into his pre-K classroom building. Met there by a gem of a lady who kept a rocking chair in her room because "sometimes these babies just need to be rocked". The importance of knowing that you're safe and loved allows for risks to be taken, lessons learned.

Lessons can be learned, and were, in a variety of places. In one he started to figure out how his instincts and natural direction could be applied out in the world. In another, he learned how to adapt those to diverse situations and people. Elsewhere, he learned how to figure out his own strengths and his own processes, how to combine focus effort into a coherent plan.

Places are really just shorthand for the people that populate them. Those places are really a vessel of sorts for the contents which are their inhabitants.
I can't begin to do justice to the number of people that contributed to his growth and successes. All those 'villages", such a range of influences. Those who taught him, those who worked with him, those who loved him, and those that were woven through all those channels.

And I wouldn't be me if I didn't at least mention a few other contributors: the handful of asshats that still risk a solid punch in the face from me if I ever find the right mix of opportunity and consequence. But, despite their intentions, they also made a contribution to his development: the opportunity to understand the phrase "living well is the best revenge" and the increased desire to prove that out. Which is what he did. So, in spite of yourselves, you sorry lot contributed too.

All of this gets me to what I really wanted to say most with this post.

While I was quite a mess inside this week -- a mess that was hidden pretty well until I realized that apparently my fingers suddenly didn't know how to work the camera on my phone -- bordering on overwhelmed at times with love, pride, and a large range of emotion, all those contributors were here too. A physical presence was not required, they were in our hearts, and in evidence in the graduate walking across the stage. Every contribution big and small, they're all a part of not just the journey completed but the roads that lie ahead as well.

As completely as I've ever known, my heart is full.

And since he finally made it public last night, this follow up post this morning from me

I just realized that one other "minor detail" officially went public last night so I'm now free to mention it aloud myself. And trust me, it hasn't been the easiest thing to keep quiet about.

Earlier this month Will accepted a job as an Assistant State Attorney in the Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office beginning in August.

As one stage of life ends, the next will begin precisely the way he wanted. And you really can't beat that.

The working plan -- for those keeping score -- is that we'll both return to Athens later this week with preparation for the Florida bar exam next on his agenda, with some personal time to follow for him before he returns to the much more hospitable climate when it's time to start work.

[Ksyrup]

The Florida Bar Exam. *shudders*

Actually, taking the Kentucky Bar Exam 10 years after graduating from law school and having spent 10 years in a niche practice area was way more stressful. All I really remember about the Florida exam was sitting on the mattress in my apartment and continually hitting refresh the day scores were posted, seeing the scores and tracing my finger from my number across the screen to the Yes or No in the Pass column. And seeing No. And then realizing I traced to the wrong number. My Yes was sandwiched between 2 No's.

Good luck to him! I think I'd rather retire than have to take another bar exam at this point.

[Edward64]

Son bought a truck. His first big purchase by himself.

Didn't ask me for advice. I was worried he paid an unreasonable premium for it but he said he got it for MSRP. I do know that MSRP can also contain BS stuff on it, so don't really know how good of a deal he got.

A little scary to think he's making these big decisions for himself now.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I feel like there's a different thread this should probably go in but I can't seem to find it. Graduation completed on Thursday, with our focus on family friends who were in town for the event, it took until last night to stop and make my official comments on social media.

I'm sharing those here cause, well, y'all have been on this ride a long time



And since he finally made it public last night, this follow up post this morning from me

Congratulations to Will and I wish him well in his future endeavors.

While you may want to put the focus on Will's talents and hard work for his advancement and to those various villages, I want to make sure that his parents get their special flowers for the role in his success. You guys done good, Jon. Salute!

[Edward64]

Son flew back for the week. Daughter showed up Christmas day. This was the only time this year where all 4 were under the same roof so that was great.

Son is okay with current job but is looking a little around Chattanooga area which is about 2-3 hours from us. Son and I said we haven't seen a Nissan Z on the road, so we may drop by a Nissan place this week to look at one.

Daughter going to graduate this May. I am somewhat concerned about her finding a self-supporting job. She seems determined and somewhat confident, but I think we differ on the definition of "self-supporting" (e.g. We've gone over a trial budget for her but don't think she fully grasps all the ancillary expenses in the adult world).

But overall, can't complain. It is a better Christmas than last year.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Son flew back for the week. Daughter showed up Christmas day. This was the only time this year where all 4 were under the same roof so that was great.

Son is okay with current job but is looking a little around Chattanooga area which is about 2-3 hours from us. Son and I said we haven't seen a Nissan Z on the road, so we may drop by a Nissan place this week to look at one.

Daughter going to graduate this May. I am somewhat concerned about her finding a self-supporting job. She seems determined and somewhat confident, but I think we differ on the definition of "self-supporting" (e.g. We've gone over a trial budget for her but don't think she fully grasps all the ancillary expenses in the adult world).

But overall, can't complain. It is a better Christmas than last year.

Simon has been home little over a week, but heads out in the morning for his last semester. No leads on a job yet, but he has put out his resume and applied to few things. His plan is still to move home unless something else comes up.

[Edward64]

My son arranged to be off Mon-Wed and is now working remotely in our home office Thu & Fri.

I'm in the living room cruising the web and watching TV.

Just struck me as a little weird the work-life thing has flipped. Him working on his laptop, me kicked back and not doing much of anything.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And I now have raised the newest member of the Florida Bar Association (pending his oath & accompanying paperwork)

Thank the good Lord above.

I don't think the sense of accomplishment has set in yet, just an overwhelming flood of relief (for both of us).

Nice early present for his birthday tomorrow. I suspect we may both be hungover on Wednesday lol.

[cuervo72]

Congrats!

[Edward64]

Congrats

[Kodos]

Awesome! Congratulations!

[GrantDawg]

Congrats! Never in doubt!

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[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Never in doubt!

Trust me, there was doubt. LOTS AND LOTS of doubt lol.

[Ksyrup]

Awesome! I still pay the dues on mine even though I left in 2006.

On an unrelated note, my oldest will be graduating with a master's in education first weekend of May and going back for #2 starting this summer. All while working a full-time 4th grade teacher job.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Trust me, there was doubt. LOTS AND LOTS of doubt lol.

Speaking of doubt....at what point do you start to get worried. My son still hasn't had a hard bite on a job yet. He graduates June 2nd. The closest thing he got was an offer was to teach English in Japan for a year, but he wasn't interested in that. He wants to get a job in tech. I'm a little surprised that he hasn't had a good hit from the alumni network. They are supposed to be very good at giving you connections. I think his preference is to move back home and work in the Atlanta area or from home, but it is sounding like he is casting a bigger net now. I know all his friends are going on to grad school (two to Harvard, one to Yale, one to MIT and his closest friend to the London School for Drama). He didn't want to go to grad school, preferring to work a few years and maybe return to school after that. Now you can tell he is sort of regretting that decision. I think it mostly just not knowing what he is doing next is getting to him, and it is really starting to worry me as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Speaking of doubt....at what point do you start to get worried.

This is me, and him (which is half my genetics) -- so the worry began officially the instant he walked out of the final test session.

It was manageable with "gonna be what it's gonna be" for the weeks that followed but slowly escalated. And he had the France trip to distract him. But ghe last 24-36 hours before the results were due (they actually released an hour or so earlier than expected, so 11a'ish instead of Noon today) were some of the most stressful either of us have been through.

There's probably a balance to be found somewhere in the situation you describes. "Worry" or at least "concern" is a positive probably, to the extent that it provides some motivation to act toward a solution. What probably turns negative is when you get in the neighborhood of "panic", which tends to be counterproductive. Good luck to him.