Werewolf L Kate Beckinsale - day 7, deadline Thursday 10pm Eastern Time

[path12]

Tangle, why did you vote for Alan?

[path12]

I need to look at it some more, I have twice now. I don't like that last four vote sequence at all, but I want to ponder exactly what it is I didn't like. Besides the tie of course.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I will also point out that in no time in MY pm did something happen to me that I can't explain

I haven't read the whole thread yet (just catching up), and I know you're intending a joke here, but are you saying you did receive a PM?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

You know, after the sequence of events that just occured, I am starting to side with you and AlanT. That last minute barrage does make you think. The fact that someone used something against AlanT makes me wonder if it were some sort of smokescreen to put our eyes on him. And now this anger for AlanT seems a bit odd. Right now, Chief Rum, LSG and Neon Chaos has me wondering about them.

Chief Rum is one of my candidates because he voted the odd man out. Not 100% sure on him, but suspicious.

LSG seems to want to pry the eyes away from Neon Chaos a little too hard. While I didn't understand the focus of his non-voting, I didn't understand why she began to mention that I had the same post count as him, because I might be next. I guess she doesn't realize there are others here with the same and that makes me wonder.

And the only reason why Neon Chaos suddenly became suspicious is that he could have easily changed his vote at the last moment, but I guess he didn't want to look too suspicious, so this barrage of votes for Barkeep came out of nowhere. Hmmmm.

lol...side with Barkeep and AlanT? You realize, they have pretty much been at opposites to one another the whole game, right?

Now, as to the rest of your post, while I agree with your opening premise regarding the possibility that AlanT's little PM might be a red herring (I mean, not a wolf thing), you go haywire after that. First thing, with your suspicion on me, I don't really understand what you're getting it. I voted for you as the other UTR type of player (like Neon Chaos), because I felt we needed another candidate and didn't like the early run on Neon Chaos. I wanted to be sure it wasn't a runaway where wolves could hide in a bandwagon. At the time, there was no momentum for BK, and Neon was the only candidate seriously at risk at that moment. I'm not really objecting to your point of view (yet), because I just don't have a clue what you're referring to by me voting "the odd man out", as you say. If you could clarify, I would appreciate it.

And your last paragraph about Neon seems to suggest he was around and didn't change his vote. And actually, he wasn't around at all from what I can see. Just like yesterday, he just flat missed the vote.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Telle

Am I the only one (including st cronin appearantly!) that noticed that Neon_Chaos voted in post #318???

lol, I did forget about that. Looks like I wasn't alone. That's a pretty crappy way to vote, too. Now I remember why there was a run on him in the first place. Why on Earth were there enough votes on a contributing Barkeep to keep us from voting out Neon for missing a vote, and randomizing a Day Two vote and not posting or participating? At least I have the excuse of not being around at the deadline. What are your excuses (that's to everyone around at deadline, not to Telle)?

[Chief Rum]

Okay, I have finally caught up to myself.

I cannot believe you guys allowed us to go into a tie. Inexcusable. Going one day without a lynch is bad enough, but two?

And as I pointed out in the post before this, the right candidate was on the block in Neon Chaos, on the useless villager reasoning, which was a heck of a lot more than we had on anyone else as a potential wolf. If I had foreseen this nonsense, no way do I vote for Antmeister. But how could I have seen this coming?

I'm going to review the sequence of votes at the end, but I already have a couple people in mind that I think really made some odd, awful decisions here.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Telle

Been busy with the little one's birthday party all day and trying to catch up with the posts.. but we're getting close to deadline..

VOTE BARKEEP49

We're six minutes to deadline when you post this. You offer no reasons whatsoever for this vote. But it moves the vote to 5 Neon, 4 BK (per Alan's last updated vote totals from about 40 mins prior). Before your vote, there's a little breathing room. Now it's a one vote difference, perhaps keying the deadline fireworks.

So given all that, I kinda want to know your reasoning for doing effectively a driveby voting on BK with no reason given.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

UNVOTE ALAN T
VOTE NEON CHAOS


*sigh*

This makes it 6-4 Neon Chaos. Sensible self-preservation vote. Just noting the sequence of votes here. There have been two votes now since Alan's vote update at 9:18 (which seems to be accurate other than Neon's missed vote on DT, but even if it was off a lot, that's the last tally everyone would have been going off of at this point).

[JHandley]

Originally Posted by RendeR

unvote neon chaos

vote barkeep

Would like to hear an explaination for this one. This is a huge vote swap.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

unvote neon chaos

vote barkeep

Ugh. Tied. Now 5-5 Neon Chaos, with three minutes to deadline. Not sure what to make of Render switching his vote. This is a highlight vote, IMO. We really need to take a closer look at this. Another driveby, no reason vote, and one with critical consequences.

Render later states he switched in anticipation of AlanT's vote, which he thought would be on Barkeep. While I can't argue the logic, I can argue that Render should have known that his vote would create a tie. And maybe he did know.

I also find it really odd that Render and Telle both made vote-closing moves one right after the other, considering they likely did it from the same computer. Not sure it means anything just yet, but I didn't want to ignore it either.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JHandley

Would like to hear an explaination for this one. This is a huge vote swap.

He offers this later.

Originally Posted by RendeR

Yeah, i am pretty stunned by Alan T's vote after all that yacking. I expected his vote to be on barkeep as well and shifted to him based on the ongoing conversation.

Stupid ties.

He even calls ties stupid after tying it with his vote.

Render is by far from being the only guilty party in this SNAFU, but he is a prominent part of it.

[Neon_Chaos]

#1 - I did vote, and I believe I was among the very first to vote. Thanks to Telle for pointing that out.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&postcount=318

#2 - The reason I didn't change my vote is because it's the weekend over here, and I've been out. I joined the game on the understanding that we were going to start on Monday, but apparently everyone agreed to start over the weekend. So there's going to be one more gameday of me not being able to post much, sorry to disappoint, Barkeep and Chief Rum, but I've got limited access over the weekend.

#3 - Checking on the votes and the sequence in how they were cast, it's clear that things were set into motion to force the draw. In light of this, I will have to do my initial vote early again.

VOTE ALAN T

Chief Rum has stated several valid candidates and reasons to vote for me or anyone else. But for me, you had the chance to produce a result yesteday by voting for anyone but me, but you did not, instead pushing for the no-vote by voting me. If you turn out to be a wolf, then Barkeep is a wolf as well, and you're trying to play us by "looking" like you're at odds.

[Neon_Chaos]

dola,

Alan T, my reasoning is that you pushed the draw by NOT voting for Barkeep. Meaning you just saved Barkeep's ass.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I have not read page 8 or 9, so this vote I am about to make is off of what little I have read and this post from Daddy. I totally agree that I think wolves are probably hiding in the Neon pile on, and there is probably a wolf that had a 'throw away vote' but if we are deciding to vote between Alant and Barkeep, and Alant got met by somebody last night, I kind of want to see what happens to alant over the next couple of days. I saw the word transformation mentioned, and I don't really know what that means, but I doubt a conversion happened on day 1.

So vote barkeep

I don't know how much blame to assess here. I know LSG was under the gun, and I doubt she was aware of the tally. She says she hadn't read pages 8 and 9, and there were several votes there.

The problem I see here is her reason for voting BK is to keep Alan around, but Alan only had one vote on him at the time. No pressure here at all. So why does he figure in a choice between BK and Neon?

I would see this as a good vote if LSG knew she was breaking a tie in favor of BK (6-5 BK at this point) and ensuring us a lynch (you would think), but I think it's clear she doesn't know at all at this point. So I'm not going to give her credit for the move.

[Neon_Chaos]

Whoa wait. I'm confused now. Whose vote caused the tie? AlanT's or RendeR's????

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

VOTE ALAN T

Chief Rum has stated several valid candidates and reasons to vote for me or anyone else. But for me, you had the chance to produce a result yesteday by voting for anyone but me, but you did not, instead pushing for the no-vote by voting me. If you turn out to be a wolf, then Barkeep is a wolf as well, and you're trying to play us by "looking" like you're at odds.

Just to clarify--this message is directed at AlanT, right? Getting thrown by your mention of me.

And, BTW, sorry for missing your vote. Not sorry for saying it's a bad one, though. Nor am I giving you a free pass for the weekend thing, considering, well, it's the weekend here, too. It's not like the two sides of the Earth are three or four days apart. I understand the weekend getting in the way, but you also have to accept the consequences if you're playing and take actions (for whatever reason) that lead some to suspect you and view you as unhelpful from a village standpoint.

[Neon_Chaos]

Ok, just checked. It was AlanT.

So my vote and my reasoning of AlanT and Barkeep being in cahoots still stands.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Whoa wait. I'm confused now. Whose vote caused the tie? AlanT's or RendeR's????

They both did. Render's tied it first. Alan's tied it again.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

VOTE ALAN T

Chief Rum has stated several valid candidates and reasons to vote for me or anyone else. But for me, you had the chance to produce a result yesteday by voting for anyone but me, but you did not, instead pushing for the no-vote by voting me. If you turn out to be a wolf, then Barkeep is a wolf as well, and you're trying to play us by "looking" like you're at odds.

Just to clarify--this message is directed at AlanT, right? Getting thrown by your mention of me.

And, BTW, sorry for missing your vote. Not sorry for saying it's a bad one, though. Nor am I giving you a free pass for the weekend thing, considering, well, it's the weekend here, too. It's not like the two sides of the Earth are three or four days apart. I understand the weekend getting in the way, but you also have to accept the consequences if you're playing and take actions (for whatever reason) that lead some to suspect you and view you as unhelpful from a village standpoint.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Quite a pile up on Barkeep at the end there.

Vote Neon_Chaos

This is the vote that tied it up, 6-6. I would guess Alan voted this way (or wants it to look this way), because he was suspicious of the BK run. I can understand being suspicious of that. But even if you allow he wasn't fully aware of the tally, this is an irresponsible vote to make, knowing it is close and knowing you don't have the tally right in front of you.

And if he did have a tally and did know it would cause a tie, well, not sure what else to say about that. And Alan isn't the sorta player who normally would do this without a tally, especially when he did the previous one at 9:18. It's just a really odd, weird vote and the results were catastrophic from a lynch point of view.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I am ambivilant about lynching Neon Chaos. He is very unlikely to be a wolf, as even people who are busy will make time for a couple of posts minimum if they recieve a role pm. However he currently is adding nothing so is not that big a loss arguably.

However, I would rather have an inactive villager as a buffer of some sort than not try and hunt possible bad guys, therefore:

Vote Alan T

The pm has me suspicious. I don't see many ways losing your memory could be a good thing.

Finally, tanglewood. This move is pretty much as bad as the tie votes put up by Render and AlanT. This is an actual chance to break the tie and undo the fiasco, and he actively throws his vote away on someone not in contention. tangle explains not voting for Neon, but then why not vote for Barkeep? And are his reasons for voting for Alan and keeping us in a tie good enough to avoid the head-to-head at the deadline?

It's another very suspicious move. The last ten minutes produced so many possible wolf candidates, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to sort it out before the game ends, and that's even assuming there's a wolf run involved here somewhere (hard to believe there's not, but I suppose it's possible this is five random villagers actively working earnestly at random for their own reasons, but unknowingly screwing the village in tandem).

[Chief Rum]

So most suspicious out of this...


AlanT (one of the two tying votes, including the last one; had suspicious PM although admittedly he's the one who made mention of it in the first place; also made a critical nonvote on Day One at the deadline, avoiding the head-to-head like tangle did on Day Two)

Render (switched from Neon to BK and created the first tie, later crediting this switch to his belief in Alan's anticipated vote--working in tandem?; voted right after Telle also made controversial vote)

tanglewood (could have broke the tie right at the deadline, but didn't)


Next group...


Telle (driveby vote that initiated the rush on Barkeep, which also saw Render play a part; she is down lower because her vote didn't tie it or fail to break it)

LSG (I can't give her credit for breaking the tie, because I don't think she was aware of it; made vote that was inconsistent with posted reason, when Alan wasn't an issue in the vote)


Next group...


JHandley, DaddyTorgo, Antmeister...you all posted within 15 mins of the deadline either before or after it. That means you were likely around and could have changed your votes. At least you three were on the principals involved.


Yesterday's candidates...


Neon Chaos (seems unlikely to be a wolf, but hasn't been helpful, and that's not much better--offers an excuse any of us could make, and even being on the other side of an ocean isn't unique, with tanglewood actively participating)

Barkeep (say what you want about the other reasons to take a stand on him, which are legit, but his late vote was entirely consistent with saving his own ass)

[Chief Rum]

Caffeine rush ending...I'm going to bed.

[LoneStarGirl]

I knew when I woke up there would be a lot from Chief Rum, but good grief he took up a whole page by himself.

[LoneStarGirl]

There is a lot to go through after yesterday and a lot of questions I still have that I hope will be somewhat answered or at least addressed by the time I get back from umpiring today.

[Barkeep49]

Cronin can you give the final vote tally?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I knew when I woke up there would be a lot from Chief Rum, but good grief he took up a whole page by himself.

I know! When CR plays it's like Christmas, or Tax Day, every day depending on what you think of his posts

[Barkeep49]

CR: My only cronin pm was the one I quoted in the message you got that line from. It had to do with his talking to me about his eyes.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Neon Chaos (seems unlikely to be a wolf, but hasn't been helpful, and that's not much better--offers an excuse any of us could make, and even being on the other side of an ocean isn't unique, with tanglewood actively participating)

I'm willing to cut Neon a break. He specifically said in his message that he has limited access on the weekend and that the game start moving up wasn't something he expected. I don't know that he should be punished for that.

I think by far the more pressing issue than low participation for todays vote is the no lynch yesterday and those later votes.

[path12]

My vote is likely to go in the Render/tangle/Alan group. I really want to hear more from both Render and tangle about their votes.

[Lorena]

VOTE BARKEEP49

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

This is the vote that tied it up, 6-6. I would guess Alan voted this way (or wants it to look this way), because he was suspicious of the BK run. I can understand being suspicious of that. But even if you allow he wasn't fully aware of the tally, this is an irresponsible vote to make, knowing it is close and knowing you don't have the tally right in front of you.

And if he did have a tally and did know it would cause a tie, well, not sure what else to say about that. And Alan isn't the sorta player who normally would do this without a tally, especially when he did the previous one at 9:18. It's just a really odd, weird vote and the results were catastrophic from a lynch point of view.

Remember with all the late voting, there was alot of crossposting, which means post then quickly catch up on what you missed while posting.

I decided to vote this way and even commented on the barkeep run before LSG even voted. Like you I'm not really blaming LSG for the vote that she did for the reason it happened. But her vote came in the middle of my giving a reason for voting Neon and then my vote. So at the time of my vote, I believed I was breaking a tie.

Then after my vote, I read to see what else posted at the same time, and indeed did know it was tied. I knew Tangle was left to vote, and posted my next comment that I wasn't going to move my vote and would leave it up to tangle .. I think I said something like "Lets see what tangle does now".

So yes, I willingly kept it a tie, but my fear was if I moved my vote somewhere else, I would end up just retying it up which was no good. So blame me for a tie if you want, but really anyone voting me for that reason is just using a copout vote.

If you want to vote me for not sticking to voting Barkeep, then I guess I can understand that reason better, but to vote me because of it being a tie, means you really didn't read the thread very well

[Alan T]

I know Chief already did alot of analysis on the end voting, but I'm a nice guy and want to provide my spin to it as well This time including in the timing of it all. Reading it after the fact makes things look alot different then actually experiencing it.


9:48 LSG checks in, has no idea whats happening and asks for help -

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Okay guys I just got back from umpiring, I only have 10 minutes. Can anybody give me a run down?

9:54 Telle checks in as well stating she's been away also and makes a vote to bring things close.

Originally Posted by Telle

Been busy with the little one's birthday party all day and trying to catch up with the posts.. but we're getting close to deadline..

VOTE BARKEEP49

9:55 - Barkeep switches his vote (as he had stated earlier in the evening that he would if it came to that close)

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

UNVOTE ALAN T
VOTE NEON CHAOS


*sigh*

9:57 - Render moves his vote, ties it up, gives no reason what so ever for the vote.

Originally Posted by RendeR

unvote neon chaos

vote barkeep

9:57 - My post, not very informative, but the late swing on Barkeep got my attention. At this point I decided I wasn't going to vote Barkeep. Since it was tied up, I decided I was going to vote Neon to unbreak the tie.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Hmm

9:57 - LSG rushes in a vote based on what she had read, even though she wasn't fully caught up yet. Her vote snuck in between my decision on where to go and what my vote was.

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I have not read page 8 or 9, so this vote I am about to make is off of what little I have read and this post from Daddy. I totally agree that I think wolves are probably hiding in the Neon pile on, and there is probably a wolf that had a 'throw away vote' but if we are deciding to vote between Alant and Barkeep, and Alant got met by somebody last night, I kind of want to see what happens to alant over the next couple of days. I saw the word transformation mentioned, and I don't really know what that means, but I doubt a conversion happened on day 1.

So vote barkeep

9:58 - My vote, which ends up retying it, but at the time of my deciding to make this vote, it was actually tied. So my thoughts were that I was untying it with still LSG and Tangle left to vote. Because of crossposting, I didn't see LSG's vote until after I made this vote.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Quite a pile up on Barkeep at the end there.

Vote Neon_Chaos

9:59 - LSG commenting on her vote, and cross posts with my vote, so she believes that Barkeep is getting lynched as she likely hasn't seen my vote yet.

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

If Barkeep is not a wolf then I am sorry and I think we should look at those who pushed so hard for his lynching, in tomorrow's vote

9:59 - Tangle votes, and I -assume- that he hadn't seen LSG or my votes yet? Wasn't on either of the candidates leading, so I don't know if he knew it was a tie at all. Based on his next post, I assume he posted this while we voted, and didn't see our votes until after he made it.

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I am ambivilant about lynching Neon Chaos. He is very unlikely to be a wolf, as even people who are busy will make time for a couple of posts minimum if they recieve a role pm. However he currently is adding nothing so is not that big a loss arguably.

However, I would rather have an inactive villager as a buffer of some sort than not try and hunt possible bad guys, therefore:

Vote Alan T

The pm has me suspicious. I don't see many ways losing your memory could be a good thing.

9:59 - Once gaain I crosspost, stating I wanted to see what tangle did... ie: I just realised we were tied, but knew Tangle was left to vote. And knew if I moved my vote to some third party candidate that if Tangle came in and voted Neon after I moved, it would retie it up. So since Tangle was left to vote, I would leave it up to him to break the tie.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Lets see what tanglewood does here

So thats how it went -with- the time. The arguement can be made that if you wait till the end to vote, you get stuck with the results of it. If you use that against me, then you should also use that against Tangle. He was here all day just like me, and just liike me he chose not to break the tie.

I don't really know if anyone there jumps out at me as a wolf though, LSG and Telle both mentioned they had been away, and I assume Render had been away also (Even though Render didn't have to feel compelled to have changed his vote).

And I don't find barkeep making a move he advertised well before that he would do suspicious.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Remember with all the late voting, there was alot of crossposting, which means post then quickly catch up on what you missed while posting.

I decided to vote this way and even commented on the barkeep run before LSG even voted. Like you I'm not really blaming LSG for the vote that she did for the reason it happened. But her vote came in the middle of my giving a reason for voting Neon and then my vote. So at the time of my vote, I believed I was breaking a tie.

Then after my vote, I read to see what else posted at the same time, and indeed did know it was tied. I knew Tangle was left to vote, and posted my next comment that I wasn't going to move my vote and would leave it up to tangle .. I think I said something like "Lets see what tangle does now".

So yes, I willingly kept it a tie, but my fear was if I moved my vote somewhere else, I would end up just retying it up which was no good. So blame me for a tie if you want, but really anyone voting me for that reason is just using a copout vote.

If you want to vote me for not sticking to voting Barkeep, then I guess I can understand that reason better, but to vote me because of it being a tie, means you really didn't read the thread very well

I totally disagree. You've had two questionable votes in a row. I don't know if I'll be voting for you or not, but there's definite reason to do so.

And you should know that it is a bad idea to leave things in the hands of others. You saying that it was up to tangle to correct the issue you helped cause doesn't exactly look like you were doing everything you could to help the side of the villagers.

There's a lot of blame to go around, but you are certainly not immune.

2 no-lynches in a row. That really sucks.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I totally disagree. You've had two questionable votes in a row. I don't know if I'll be voting for you or not, but there's definite reason to do so.

And you should know that it is a bad idea to leave things in the hands of others. You saying that it was up to tangle to correct the issue you helped cause doesn't exactly look like you were doing everything you could to help the side of the villagers.

There's a lot of blame to go around, but you are certainly not immune.

2 no-lynches in a row. That really sucks.

I don't think you fully read what I posted. If people want to get upset at me changing my mind on whom to vote for, or find who I voted for questionable, then I understand. I disagree fully though because I thought i gave a good reason for why I changed my mind (I am allowed to change my mind on people right?) However, to vote for me because I tied it up means you really dont understand what happened. (or you are trying to push some agenda)

[JHandley]

Alan, anything new with your condition?

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

We're six minutes to deadline when you post this. You offer no reasons whatsoever for this vote. But it moves the vote to 5 Neon, 4 BK (per Alan's last updated vote totals from about 40 mins prior). Before your vote, there's a little breathing room. Now it's a one vote difference, perhaps keying the deadline fireworks.

So given all that, I kinda want to know your reasoning for doing effectively a driveby voting on BK with no reason given.

Barkeep seemed suspicious to me. There's just something about his play that's not sitting quite right with me. I can't put my finger on it, but it looked like other people were picking up on it too. And I had been away all day with my son's birthday party and was trying to get caught up but the deadline was fast approaching.. but it was obvious it was coming down to either Barkeep or Neon Chaos, and I preferred voting for someone I was suspicious about rather than someone who just hadn't been very active.

Oh, and to answer another comment of yours.. RendeR and I have separate computers.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by JHandley

Alan, anything new with your condition?

And did anybody else have a similar experience last night?

[JHandley]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Next group...


JHandley, DaddyTorgo, Antmeister...you all posted within 15 mins of the deadline either before or after it. That means you were likely around and could have changed your votes. At least you three were on the principals involved.

Yes, I saw it all happen. Yes, I was paying attention. No, I didn't think I could do anything about it.

I couldn't figure out why people were voting for BK. Because he was aggressively going after Alan? Why the hell wouldn't he be aggressive after Alan? There's evidence to suggest that Alan is in trouble. Nothing good happens after blacking out and waking up. We know there's a Mad Scientist, we think he can convert villagers to wolves. What we don't know if whether this is what is happen to Alan or not.

I was advocating a position where we would wait for Alan to come up with more information today and if he was unable to, or it sounded fishy, then lynch his ass. I think BK's only fault was trying to lynch Alan too early. The same. If Alan doesn't come up with a damn good reason to make me look at someone else today (and it got to be better than "if you vote for me you're a wolf") I absolutely intend to vote for Alan.

I understand needing a lynch every day. I was on the side that wanted a day 1 lynch. I understand a stab in the dark, I understand lynching someone on suspecion alone, I do not understand lynching someone you believe to be a villager just to lynch someone, anyone.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Telle

Barkeep seemed suspicious to me. There's just something about his play that's not sitting quite right with me. I can't put my finger on it, but it looked like other people were picking up on it too. And I had been away all day with my son's birthday party and was trying to get caught up but the deadline was fast approaching.. but it was obvious it was coming down to either Barkeep or Neon Chaos, and I preferred voting for someone I was suspicious about rather than someone who just hadn't been very active.

Oh, and to answer another comment of yours.. RendeR and I have separate computers.

My vote went from neon to barkeep based on the others votes making it close and my belief that alan almost certainly would vote for barkeep based on their day long diatribe. I would rather lynch someone that has a case against them rather than just for inactivity. Barkeep was the only other player with enough votes to move the lynch, hence my vote moved to him.

Alan's explanation, while plausible, is to me highly suspicious. Alan is too good at this game to go lame duck and let someone else decide things. His "lets see what tangle does" line just comes across to me as a weak excuse.

We do indeed have seperate computers, though we generally sit about 5 feet apart most of the time =)

VOTE ALAN T

[JHandley]

5 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393), Cartman
3 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349), Antmeister, Daddytorgo
2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)

This was the voting right before Telle added her vote to BK. Forcing BK to move his vote to Neon to save himself.

Why not vote for Alan here? That ties up Alan and BK which then allows people who don't think that BK is a wolf to move their votes from Neon to Alan.

[JHandley]

RendeR, why is the case against BK stronger than the one against Alan?

[Telle]

Originally Posted by JHandley

5 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393), Cartman
3 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349), Antmeister, Daddytorgo
2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)

This was the voting right before Telle added her vote to BK. Forcing BK to move his vote to Neon to save himself.

Why not vote for Alan here? That ties up Alan and BK which then allows people who don't think that BK is a wolf to move their votes from Neon to Alan.

Because I prefer to vote for someone I suspect of being a wolf rather than trying to play some numbers game with the voting.

[JHandley]

That's my point. Why do you suspect BK is a wolf and not Alan?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by JHandley

5 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393), Cartman
3 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349), Antmeister, Daddytorgo
2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)

This was the voting right before Telle added her vote to BK. Forcing BK to move his vote to Neon to save himself.

Why not vote for Alan here? That ties up Alan and BK which then allows people who don't think that BK is a wolf to move their votes from Neon to Alan.

A couple reasons:

#1 barkeep already has an edge, to lynch someone other than Neon Chaos i went with the guy closer in vote totals. its easier to get 2 votes than to get 3.

#2 We already know there is an issue with Alan, and during the whole back and forth with the two of them I became suspicious of both, to be honest I still felt more strongly about Alan, but knowing he has issues that may well lead to his lynching I figure we should take a chance taking out barkeep and perhaps snag 2 wolves playing the "lets fight each other and stay safe that way" gambit. Thern see #1, barkeep had the extra vote already, so go with BK, get him lynched because I was certain Alan would vote for him after the days arguments and we would lynch BK instead of a simply inactive Neon.

I was stunned that Alan voted for Neon instead of BK, what was the point of all the blathering all day long? If he weren't going to vote that way why on earth wait till the last instant to do so?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by JHandley

Alan, anything new with your condition?

Nope, nothing at all. As far as I can tell, it was a one time thing.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by JHandley

That's my point. Why do you suspect BK is a wolf and not Alan?

Well after Alan's odd (to me) vote last night, I now suspect him of being a wolf and in league with BK.

Basically, I found Barkeep's whole aggressive play against Alan a bit off. There wasn't anything to make me suspicious of Alan prior to him blacking out that night, so then the issue was that he might be in the process of conversion rather than being someone who's been a wolf all along. And I just don't think it makes sense to lynch Alan on suspicion of conversion based on that.. yet. My thinking was that whether the person who caused the blacking out was good or bad, it's possible that they could do it every night.. so then do we base who we lynch every day on who had that experience the previous night? It makes much more sense to take a "wait and see" approach.. find out if this keeps happening to people (not that anybody has much incentive to speak up now if it did happen to them last night.. they're likely to get lynched if they do now). And based on my very limited experience with this game, I just feel that Barkeep is a "thinker" and should have seen things from that angle, so him just jumping to lynch Alan seemed suspicious to me.

[RendeR]

Let me give my reasons for my vote on Alan T today so I don't have to go back and do it all again later.

#1 he had the night 1 issue that may or may not be a conversion attempt. That alone is suspicion enough for me to get him out of the game.

#2 yesterdays voting snafu just smells bad to me. Alan is a far better player than that. He was the one tracking votes, he knew what was happening and chose to tie the game and let someone else make the decision? I don't buy it.

#3 After the vehemence that he went after BK with all day he votes to force a tie with neon, someone who only garnered votes at all because he was non-existant for two days. Alan doesn't waste votes. I've watced him play a number of games now and read some of the older ones. Thats not a typical Alan T maneuver at all.

My guts tell me that all this adds up to Alan and BK playing one against the other to keep suspicion floting back and forth enough that we never manage to nab either of them.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

A couple reasons:

#1 barkeep already has an edge, to lynch someone other than Neon Chaos i went with the guy closer in vote totals. its easier to get 2 votes than to get 3.

#2 We already know there is an issue with Alan, and during the whole back and forth with the two of them I became suspicious of both, to be honest I still felt more strongly about Alan, but knowing he has issues that may well lead to his lynching I figure we should take a chance taking out barkeep and perhaps snag 2 wolves playing the "lets fight each other and stay safe that way" gambit. Thern see #1, barkeep had the extra vote already, so go with BK, get him lynched because I was certain Alan would vote for him after the days arguments and we would lynch BK instead of a simply inactive Neon.

I was stunned that Alan voted for Neon instead of BK, what was the point of all the blathering all day long? If he weren't going to vote that way why on earth wait till the last instant to do so?

Well you ever stop to consider, that i have no clue who is good and who isn't? All I have to go on is how people react, and there definitly was a huge run of people suddenly out of the blue wanting to vote Barkeep. With 5 minutes left, that set off all kinds of warning bells in my head.

On a day when you all don't know much of anything, you suddenly in the last 5 minutes believe someone is guilty and want to lynch him? I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. So I decided on a gut instinct there to change my mind.

If you don't think I play on gut instincts, you've never played with me before. As analytical as I am, I rely on my gut for who is good or bad as much as anyone.

If you think I pulled lame duck because I didn't make a change in the last 45 seconds, when I didn't know what tangle would do yet, you are out of your mind.

If you think Barkeep is a wolf and I was trying to save him, then you're incredibly crazy. Even I am not gutsy enough to try to put together a strategy to get myself and another wolf scanned and lynched within the first 3 days of the game. For as good of a wolf as some people give me credit for being, then turning around and saying I would pull a rediculously dumb move like that is non-sensical.

You people are coming up with all kinds of silly reasons to vote for people (even the ones not for me) right now. If I had to choose anyone out of the bunch there, I'm leaning towards voting Render or Tanglewood.

[Alan T]

Once again, if you people honestly think as a wolf, I would set myself up to try to be scanned and on the line in the first 2 days, you are absolutely out of your mind.

If I was a wolf, I wouldn't have revealed my night 1 PM.
If I was a wolf, I wouldn't have brought that much heat onto myself.
If I was a wolf, I definitly wouldn't be putting myself on the lynch line because of trying to vote for my gut or trying to manipulate the vote at the end of deadline.

I hate to say it, but a smart wolf writes off his own if they come up for a day 2 lynch. There is no way a wolf would go down with the ship to save his own that early in the game.

Today's arguements against me are even more rediculous than yesterday's were so far. The only one that makes any sense to me right now is Jhandley, who wanted to play a wait and see game, and well all I can tell you is if someone scanned me last night, I would have turned up human. I am human right now, and as far as I can tell, I will continue to be human.