Soccer Thread 2009-10

[Big Fo]

US blew a couple of chances to ice it.

[DaddyTorgo]

yup.

but it's over. winner winner...chicken dinner

[Big Fo]

Three points, what a relief. Most underwhelming victory in national team history? Perhaps but a road win nonetheless despite the lackadaisical play.

One of Honduras and Mexico are guaranteed to drop points tonight, probably Honduras.

[SirFozzie]

Here's the standings as they stand right now

USA 16 Points (2 to play, +5)
Honduras 13 Points (Mexico +2 to Play, +7)
Mexico 12 Points (Honduras +2 to Play, +2)
Costa Rica 12 Points (El Salvador +2 to play, -3)
El Salvador 6 Points (Costa Rica +2 to Play, -3)
(ELIMINATED)
Trinidad & Tobago 5 Points (2 to play, -8)

Very likely that Honduras will not take three points tonight, at the Azteca. Right now, we're rooting for El Salvador at home vs Costa Rica.. if they do not draw tonight, they're eliminated..

Realistically, Costa Rica's Goal Differential issues (USA has them beaten by 8, Honduras by 10, Mexico by 5) means that if they do not take all three points in El Salvador tonight, a draw in the final US-Costa Rica game will be enough to put the US through, no matter what else happens

[Big Fo]

At halftime the two other games are 0-0. Mexico will score eventually, they've come close several times and Honduras haven't seen much of the ball.

[cthomer5000]

El Salvador just hooked up the USA immensely. Perfect set of results tonight, really.

Matchday 9 clinch scenarios for the US:
1. USA win
2. Costa Rica loss
3. USA draw AND Costa Rica draw


If we fail to do that, we just need a draw or better on Matchday 10. Maybe less depending upon the details of Matchday 9.

[Big Fo]

Mexico 1-0 Honduras
El Salvador 1-0 Costa Rica

USA -------------------- 16
Mexico ----------------- 15
Honduras -------------- 13
Costa Rica ------------- 12
El Salvador ------------ 8
Trinidad and Tobago -- 5

As SirFozzie said above, a draw at home against Costa Rica now assures a top three finish for the US.

[DaddyTorgo]

WOOOO

[RainMaker]

Still kind of scary to see it come down to the final game. Would love to see us get a tie in Honduras.

[cthomer5000]

Yeah... I mean, I want us to get to the world cup... but i can't exactly say my hopes are high at this point. We seem to raise more questions with each game.

[Easy Mac]

My unofficial FM ratings the day after:
Howard - 6
he made one nice save, but was again out of position on the flick that hit the crossbar

Spector - 7
one of those times when FM rates a guy a 7 when he should be a 6.5. was solid on the flank, and our only player demonstrating any touch.

Onyewu - 7
Damn, missed him last game.

Bocanegra - 6
He played, was solid

Bornstein - 6
Not nearly as bad as he could have been, as good as could be expected

Bradley - 5
Did he even play?

Clark - 6
He played slightly better than Bradley, and scored, so...

Donovan - 6
first half was a 8, damn good. second half, was non-existant 4.

Dempsey - 4
one good shot, but otherwise a turnover machine. this from a committed Dempsey fan.

Altidore - 7
he was actually very good last night.

Davies - 6
A middling performance, but he never has an off switch.

Subs:
Feilhaber - 6
meh.

Holden - 6
He can whip in a cross

Ching - n/a
He wasn't very good at holding possession.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Still kind of scary to see it come down to the final game. Would love to see us get a tie in Honduras.

There are two matches left.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Donovan - 6
first half was a 8, damn good. second half, was non-existant 4.

Except for doing all the work on setting up the goal

[DaddyTorgo]

landycakes was fine last night. him and jozy were the only two field players who i thought were anything above "meh"

[Big Fo]

Onyewu also had a good game for the most part. I'd have to watch it again but I'm not sure if he or Spector was more at fault for letting Glen get by them on the lob that hit the bar, other than that he was his typical beastly self.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Onyewu also had a good game for the most part. I'd have to watch it again but I'm not sure if he or Spector was more at fault for letting Glen get by them on the lob that hit the bar, other than that he was his typical beastly self.

yeah, gooch was okay. he wasn't really above "average" though - he did give away some free kicks deep that were dangerous.

i guess if i'd say that landy+jozy were "2 ticks above average" then i'd say gooch was "1 tick above average"

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

yeah, gooch was okay. he wasn't really above "average" though - he did give away some free kicks deep that were dangerous.

i guess if i'd say that landy+jozy were "2 ticks above average" then i'd say gooch was "1 tick above average"

I think Gooch is just unfortunate to have his size and having to play in CONCACAF. Only 1 of those close free kicks was actually a foul (I believe there were 3 or 4), the rest were just T&T falling.

And I'd argue all Landon really did on the goal was pass it back to an oncoming Clark. Aside from Dempsey, anyone else on the team could have made that pass last night.

Also, forgot a rating for the ref: 9 - because he didn't actively try and swing the game for T&T.

Does anyone know what turf T&T uses and what kind of field? It looked liked field turf. With the wet conditions and fast field, the US was struggling early with getting any kind of rhythm.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Bradley - 5
Did he even play?

Does he ever play? I'm tired of seeing him in the midfield.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Does anyone know what turf T&T uses and what kind of field? It looked liked field turf. With the wet conditions and fast field, the US was struggling early with getting any kind of rhythm.

It was definitely grass, but it seemed to be putting green short, so it was fast as hell. The field also seemed pretty narrow... so it helps explain our posession struggles somewhat.

Overall though, definitely a poor performance for our team. We got the result though, which is ultimately all that matters. We just seem to have a real knack for playing up or down to the level of our competition. It's maddening.

[GoldenEagle]

I think the US will have a pretty good shot at getting a victory at Honduras. While Honduras has the best collection of midfield and strikers in the region, they are weak in the back. We will be able to catch them in transition, where the US specializes. Guevara is also suspended.

If the Hondurans can ever develop defenders and a goalkeeper, they will be the power of CONCACAF. The combination of Palacios, Guevara, Thomas, Costly, and Suzao is scary.

[ISiddiqui]

Nice needed win by the US.

Also yesterday, Spain and England officially qualified, joining the Netherlands from UEFA. And the victor of the October 10th match between Germany and Russia (which will be a doozy) will automatically qualify.

[BishopMVP]

Lotta things I wanted to hit here.

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Except for doing all the work on setting up the goal

I already come off as a Donovan hater, but I don't really get everyone lauding him for that assist. It was a decent look, not the best pass, and then an absolutely phenomenal touch by Clark to line up his shot and clearly a nice shot to finish. I can't stress how impressed I was by Clark's first touch - ball hard at his feet as he's coming forward, flicks it outside of the foot a yard in front and to the right, but not far enough a defender can get to it.

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Onyewu also had a good game for the most part. I'd have to watch it again but I'm not sure if he or Spector was more at fault for letting Glen get by them on the lob that hit the bar, other than that he was his typical beastly self.

Both of them were at fault, but Onyewu moreso imo. Spector plays Glen to the outside and takes away the line/corner, (i believe) expecting inside help from Onyewu when Glen seals Spector off and goes inside. Onyewu's almost off in no man's land - I don't know if he was trying to jump an overlapping run from the other T&T guy, but that should be Spector's responsibility as outside back. Bocanegra looks late coming over, but as the left center back he really shouldn't be involved off a throw-in from the right hash.

Howard does have a tendency to get caught off his line occasionally, but unlike Easy Mac I won't blame him on this one without seeing a replay that shows him from when the throw in occurs (which ESPN certainly doesn't have). He might have just been coming out to cut down the angle once he sees Glen in free on goal, assuming he'll shoot quick and low like Landon did when Jozy set him up.

Other thoughts - Clint Dempsey has looked horrid now for as long as I can remember on the wing. Everyone was raving about his Confed Cup performance, saying how dangerous he was once he moved up top, and it was the same last night. I know people are loathe to break up the Davies-Altidore pairing up top, but how long do we keep playing Dempsey at the wing instead of putting him in a forward rotation and starting Holden ahead of him on the wing?

Bob Bradley still sucks in his substitution patterns. We thought he had it right when he had Holden and Feilhaber up (assuming they were coming in for Dempsey and Clark respectively, although in retrospect it was probably for Altidore and Clark) just before the goal. Then he decides to take Altidore off and move Dempsey up top - I hate taking Altidore off, but defensible - and sticks Feilhaber on the right wing. Now, I like Feilhaber going forward and he does pretty well in the middle, but he's always looked poor on the wing and Holden's looked good. So why not Holden instead of Feilhaber? He's lucky Carlos Edwards' rip a minute later wasn't 2 feet to either side - that thing was a cannon. And then of course bringing in Brian Ching for basically no reason. He doesn't hold up the ball any better than Davies and he's not in better shape or more dangerous than Davies.

Elsewhere in CONCACAF, Mexico is still a ludicrously dirty team at home. It's nice for us that Guevara is missing the game, but the yellows and Blanco's playacting at the end of the game was absurd. Plus, while it was well-executed and I can't blame the ref for buying it, that was definitely a(nother) dive by Dos Santos to draw the PK. That's +1 for T&T - it's lovely to see a CONCACAF game where players aren't faking injury and diving every 2 minutes, and I suspect that's half the reason why the ref looked so much better from our vantage point last night.

CONMEBOL is getting extremely tight down to the wire. Brazil, Paraguay are in, Chile (my new favorite team with their attacking 3-3-1-3 formation) is almost certainly there with 27 already, then you have
4. Ecuador 23 -2
5. Argentina 22 +1 (Seriously, how is Maradona still the coach - or Raymond Domenech)
6. Uruguay 21 +8
7. Venezuela 21 -5
8. Colombia 20 -4

Argentina's next game is home to Peru, so they should win that, but then they go to Uruguay in what could be a win or go home, or a win and/or face a playoff match.

In AFC, ridiculous finish to Saudi Arabia-Bahrain. Now for the weakest play-in series in recent World Cup history vs. New Zealand! In CAF, usually the most unpredictable region, Cameroon has regained 1st place, Nigeria blew their 2 chances to beat Tunisia and need Tunisia to stumble against Mozambique or Kenya, while Egypt is still 3 down to Algeria - but gets Algeria at home on the last matchday.

[Easy Mac]

Total aside, but I didn't know Dempsey was married until my wife told me tonight. I remember his wife from college. All I'll really say is he has done well for himself... she had her qualities, if I recall correctly. I will not speak to my wife's opinions of her at the time, since Dempsey's wife now has a child.

[RainMaker]

The whole thing still seems too close to comfort. I mean I don't see them winning or tying in Honduras which would essentially make Costa Rica a must-tie game. Just don't like seeing this go down to the last game.

[MrBug708]

When the US gets that truly special player, I'm afraid us Americans will rip him to shreds

[Big Fo]

I don't really agree. There are hyper-critical fans in every sport but in general I think US national team fans are pretty forgiving in regards to the players unless they have a truly awful game. We like to blame the manager when things go badly.

By truly special do you mean a world star like Messi or CRonaldo? Because I think Friedel was one of the best around in his prime. The US might not ever develop a player as good as those other two guys, some countries have been playing soccer as their main sport for nearly a century and haven't managed that.

[MrBug708]

I'm speaking about Donovan. Yes, the guy didn't want to hack it out in Europe, but he has this hatred sparked among fans that I just don't get

[Big Fo]

Ah gotcha. I know what you mean but it always seemed like a slim minority of the fanbase to me. It was definitely worse a few years ago than it is now. I cringe every time one of ours call him "Landycakes."

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Lotta things I wanted to hit here.I already come off as a Donovan hater, but I don't really get everyone lauding him for that assist. It was a decent look, not the best pass, and then an absolutely phenomenal touch by Clark to line up his shot and clearly a nice shot to finish.

So when you watch a replay, you seriously dont see Donovan control the ball there at the edge of the box... move into the corner of the box to occupy the 2nd defender (who moves off Clark) before dishing it off? Do you not see that, or does that just have nothing to do with Donovan in your opinion?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Other thoughts - Clint Dempsey has looked horrid now for as long as I can remember on the wing. Everyone was raving about his Confed Cup performance, saying how dangerous he was once he moved up top, and it was the same last night. I know people are loathe to break up the Davies-Altidore pairing up top, but how long do we keep playing Dempsey at the wing instead of putting him in a forward rotation and starting Holden ahead of him on the wing?

Which of the most "in form" players on the team do you pull from up front? Altidore and Davies are as hot right now as any player on the team. Do you really want to fuck with that mojo?

Also, I'm starting to think Dempsey is kind of throwing tantrums in order to precipitate a move to forward. I never see the moronic giveaways (he's good for 2 a game on some really stupid trick attempt) when he's with Fulham. Also, he plays out wide for Fulham (pre Andy Johnson injury) without any issue.

I want to see Holden get a start as much as anyone, but I can't see it happening before we've locked up qualifcation. I pray we can get it done @ Honduras so that Bob has some room to try new stuff against Costa Rica.

[cthomer5000]

One more thing to disagree on - I don't think that was a dive in the slighest by Dos Santos.

Why does the defender go tumbling forward after him if it was simply a dive? He clumsily slammed right into him. Stupid play, and not intentionally malicious, but I thought it was a slam-dunk PK the first time I saw it and on every subsequent replay.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I'm speaking about Donovan. Yes, the guy didn't want to hack it out in Europe, but he has this hatred sparked among fans that I just don't get

It's mostly because he seemed like a whiner in Europe. A lot of fans were excited that US players may go to Europe and compete among the best in the world and get better from the competition and they felt that Donovan's behavior in Europe may have ruined it for a lot of others. They may have felt that was what the "American player" was like and prevented players from getting the competition they needed to become world class.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Ah gotcha. I know what you mean but it always seemed like a slim minority of the fanbase to me. It was definitely worse a few years ago than it is now. I cringe every time one of ours call him "Landycakes."

oops - why? Is there a bad connotation to that nickname? I always just thought it was kinda funny and affectionate, which is why i use it.

guess i better clear that up - i do not dislike Donovan at all, and I think he's a great asset to the USMNT

[Northwood_DK]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

CONMEBOL is getting extremely tight down to the wire. Brazil, Paraguay are in, Chile (my new favorite team with their attacking 3-3-1-3 formation) is almost certainly there with 27 already, then you have
4. Ecuador 23 -2
5. Argentina 22 +1 (Seriously, how is Maradona still the coach - or Raymond Domenech)
6. Uruguay 21 +8
7. Venezuela 21 -5
8. Colombia 20 -4

Argentina's next game is home to Peru, so they should win that, but then they go to Uruguay in what could be a win or go home, or a win and/or face a playoff match.

As much as I would love to see Maradona fail, it would be really sad to see a World Cup without Argentina. With the amount of quality players they have it’s a real achievement if they manage to finish outside the Top-5 in the CONMEBOL

[AlexB]

Nice bit of karma here...

edit: apparently I have no idea how to embed a youtube video, so here's the link...

YouTube - goalkeeper scores, THEN............

[Big Fo]

I love that clip, even Leverkusen's defenders were cracking up.

[ISiddiqui]

Saw this joke on another forum... thought it'd bring a laugh or two:

Brazil have been drawn against Scotland in the World Cup, and Ronaldo tells his team mates that he's going to play them on his own, single-handed.

so they all sod off down the pub, have a few drinks, play some pool, and keep up with the score on Teletext.

they see 'Ronaldo' go 1-0 up after 15 minutes and can't believe it.

then, in the last seconds of injury time, they see Scotland equalise.

still more than impressed that one man held a whole team to a draw, they go back to the ground to congratulate Ronaldo, who they find sitting in the dressing room, head-in-hands, looking utterly distraught.

Roberto Carlos asks him 'why are you so upset?'

and Ronaldo replies 'I can't believe I let you all down like this'

Carlos says 'what do you mean? you played an entire team on your own and got a draw. that's incredible!'

and Ronaldo says to him 'no - you don't understand. I got sent off after half an hour'.

[Big Fo]

Great performance from Man Utd today after falling behind in the first minute to a Defoe overhead strike, winning 3-1 at Spurs.

Anderson-son-son with his first goal for the club, a pretty nice one as well.

Rooney's to clinch the win was great, blowing by Hutton then megging Cudicini.

Scholes was red carded (deservedly) early in the second half but Spurs couldn't create much at all. Fletcher and Evra were awesome, Fletcher is the team's player of the season so far.

Ferguson needs to keep playing with two strikers, it works so much better in this post-Ronaldo world.

It was more than enough to erase the anger from watching Malouda score that weak-ass 94th minute winner earlier today. That should be a save nine times out of ten.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

So when you watch a replay, you seriously dont see Donovan control the ball there at the edge of the box... move into the corner of the box to occupy the 2nd defender (who moves off Clark) before dishing it off? Do you not see that, or does that just have nothing to do with Donovan in your opinion?

No, it was nice enough by Donovan, it was just more that no one was giving respect to Clark for how beautiful a touch he had, probably because he's not a "skill" player. If that was Donovan or Dempsey or Altidore people would be talking about what world-class touch was shown. But it's Clark, so the praise for the goal goes to Donovan.

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Which of the most "in form" players on the team do you pull from up front? Altidore and Davies are as hot right now as any player on the team. Do you really want to fuck with that mojo?

Also, I'm starting to think Dempsey is kind of throwing tantrums in order to precipitate a move to forward. I never see the moronic giveaways (he's good for 2 a game on some really stupid trick attempt) when he's with Fulham. Also, he plays out wide for Fulham (pre Andy Johnson injury) without any issue.

I want to see Holden get a start as much as anyone, but I can't see it happening before we've locked up qualifcation. I pray we can get it done @ Honduras so that Bob has some room to try new stuff against Costa Rica.

I don't *want* to see him start over Davies or Altidore, but I also don't want him up top for Altidore from the 60th minute on either, and I certainly don't want to see him moved up top after being a black hole at RM for 60 minutes. If he's already in a rotation at forward and giving us nothing from the wing, I don't see why he can't do it as a sub off the bench. Holden's probably our best wing at delivering crosses into the area (unless you count Dolo or Spector from RB) and Altidore's probably the most dangerous forward in the air, yet we have Dempsey, who's strength is on the ground playing when Altidore's in.

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

One more thing to disagree on - I don't think that was a dive in the slightest by Dos Santos.

Why does the defender go tumbling forward after him if it was simply a dive? He clumsily slammed right into him. Stupid play, and not intentionally malicious, but I thought it was a slam-dunk PK the first time I saw it and on every subsequent replay.

Ridiculously clumsy challenge by the Honduran, looks like a certain PK from behind, hence I don't blame the referee in the slightest. But about 1:23 in this video - YouTube - Mexico vs Honduras 1-0 Highlights 09/09/09 Eliminatoria 2009 - shows it from the front, and it looks just a little different from that angle. Edit to add - it might still be a PK, but Dos Santos is certainly selling and exaggerating it.

[SirFozzie]

Bad news:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/soc...=soccerinsider

Looks like the US-Honduras game is off the air.The rights holder wanted somewhere between 1-4 million dollars to give ESPN the rights.

That makes two USA games off ESPN

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Bad news:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/soc...=soccerinsider

Looks like the US-Honduras game is off the air.The rights holder wanted somewhere between 1-4 million dollars to give ESPN the rights.

That makes two USA games off ESPN

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, instead, the rights holder is going to do a bunch of closed-circuit places, in an attempt to squeeze the most money out of expatriate Hondurans.

[DaddyTorgo]

i wonder how much it'd cost to go down there on an actual airline (TACA has a shitty & horrible safety record and i'd try to avoid flying them).

this blows

[Big Fo]

Rough news on the lack of TV coverage. User comments on that article make it seem like even a dodgy stream might be hard to come by.

After using his foot to try and perform eye surgery on van Persie last weekend it looks like Adebayor will be given a three-match ban, keeping him out of this weekend's derby. I thought it was weird how the media focused more on his goal celebration than the van Persie and Fabregas incidents (Ade tried to stamp him on a tackle).

UEFA has rescinded Eduardo's two-match ban for diving. I guess it's the right call if they weren't going to do that for every other diver.

[sovereignstar]

Actually Manu stamped everyone on Arsenal and the FA and media are pushing for life in prison. Sound about right since he doesn't play for anyone in the Big Four.

[-apoc-]

Yes yes its all because the FA loves Arsenal

[bhlloy]

Fuck me, that's horrific. I hadn't seen it before. That's way worse than it's been described in news articles I've read. Hope he gets 10 games for that. That's not a natural foot motion (at least not in any soccer game I've watched or played in) and he's looking right at his face when he does it.

[RainMaker]

Doesn't FIFA have some say on the rights to show the game? I mean you have one of richest nation in the world who is starting to show some interest in soccer and you're going to deny them it on TV. Just seems like it's bad all around for FIFA.

[law90026]

I was horrified when I watched the game live (Arsenal - Man City).

He should never have been on the pitch to score his goal and his celebration in front of the Arsenal travelling fans was pretty disgraceful.

What's truly terrible is his absolute lack of contrition and the excuses he makes for his actions.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by -apoc-

Yes yes its all because the FA loves Arsenal

The van Persie rake and the goal celebration were terrible, and he has rightly been charged by the FA for both.

But the picture with Fabregas is a bit misleading - if you look closely you'll see Adebayor's left foot is actually nowhere near Cesc's leg in that particular shot: it's way in front of it.

I don't remember this incident, so it may be that Adebayor did Fabregas just before that particular frame, but that one shot is bogus.