Werewolf XXXVII: Middle-Earth - GAME ENDS. Who Won? Check it out!

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Just to get a vote out there:

VOTE DaddyTorgo

He was one of the last to swing his vote to Scoobz and he really needed to be swayed to do so.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Not particularly. Looking at the player list, I don't seem to remember hearing much from KWhit, Swaggs, SnDvls, or Sublime2 (or obviously Neuqua), but I am going strictly by memory. I'll have to look back.

SnDvls will start talking later. He tends to be say a lot with fewer posts than people like Alan, blade, or even myself.

KWhit, well, I thought he would be talking more, but it's been a while since I've seen him play.

With Sublime...I'm conflicted. There is the part of me that wants to be nice to the new guy, let him get settled and such. Then there's the part that remembers that people were nice to me during my first game, I was bad, and I used it to screw them. But for now, give other choices, I'd rather not lynch the newbie.

[DaddyTorgo]

gonna hafta catchup later this afternoon 6 or 7 again. hafta take niece for a flu shot and then go and hopefully get my ass promoted. can't read 2 pages of posts on my phone right now

[Alan T]

Vote Chief Rum

The last game when I was super talkative at the start, two people came out buddy buddy with me, or perhaps not necessarily buddy buddy, but they supported me "thinking" I was good. Both people ended up bad.

Believe me or not, I usually don't see many good reasons for innocent villagers to back an unknown pretty strongly early other than with the thinking that when I get lynched or night killed and end up good it buys you trust since you were defending a good guy. I don't know squat about you, so I assume you know just as little about me.

As for my thoughts on the 4 factions and particular the 3 smaller groups.. My assumption going in you would have one main group of villagers/townspeople who would be the largest group. To counter that you have the main evil group (Mordor) who has the night kill action as well as some other possible normal bad guy actions.

You then have Isengard (Saruman), and Arnor (Rangers) who are more support groups for the side of darkness and side of light. Each with their own winning condition, I would imagine Saruman's side possibly having various support type bad guy actions... things like Conversion, a one time (or limited time) assassin role, etc. The Rangers, having excellent knowledge in tracking and healing and protection might have roles such as a witness role or some form of seer role as perhaps a bodyguard action.

I would think having two or three groups that can do night kills might make the game very chaotic and unpredictable (Even though I guess its always a possibility). My thinking is Saruman's forces probably can do a night kill, but just not every night or maybe not more than once a game and want to try to identify a good target so its not wasted.


Finally to Saldana and Blade.. believe whatever you want. My posts day 1 were out of my love for this genre, and were not trying to incite a lynching. Long story short, but without Tolkien I actually never probably would have known about Baseball Mogul, FOF or OOTP and you all likely would never had to have put up with me in the first place. If you are clinging to the idea that I was doing some passive agressive lynch maneuvering with my comments then thats your prerogative. I've not lied about anything this game, my feelings or otherwise.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Anxiety,

Any word on what we are going to do about Neuqua? Basically is he going to be replaced or not. If not, then we know it is up to us to determine in game. If he is, then can it be done today so as not to hold a position over multiple days?

Might be that you are in the process of figuring that out now, but just thought I would ask.

I've sent a pm and am awaiting a response. When I know, you'll know.

[Lathum]

I'm wondering if there is a dynamic in the game where certain factions can only kill every other night or have to wait a certain number of days to kill etc...

I find it impossible to believe anyone was lying low last night

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Not particularly. Looking at the player list, I don't seem to remember hearing much from KWhit, Swaggs, SnDvls, or Sublime2 (or obviously Neuqua), but I am going strictly by memory. I'll have to look back.

Keep looking on me I was on and posting all day yesterday

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Vote Chief Rum

The last game when I was super talkative at the start, two people came out buddy buddy with me, or perhaps not necessarily buddy buddy, but they supported me "thinking" I was good. Both people ended up bad.

Believe me or not, I usually don't see many good reasons for innocent villagers to back an unknown pretty strongly early other than with the thinking that when I get lynched or night killed and end up good it buys you trust since you were defending a good guy. I don't know squat about you, so I assume you know just as little about me.

As for my thoughts on the 4 factions and particular the 3 smaller groups.. My assumption going in you would have one main group of villagers/townspeople who would be the largest group. To counter that you have the main evil group (Mordor) who has the night kill action as well as some other possible normal bad guy actions.

You then have Isengard (Saruman), and Arnor (Rangers) who are more support groups for the side of darkness and side of light. Each with their own winning condition, I would imagine Saruman's side possibly having various support type bad guy actions... things like Conversion, a one time (or limited time) assassin role, etc. The Rangers, having excellent knowledge in tracking and healing and protection might have roles such as a witness role or some form of seer role as perhaps a bodyguard action.

I would think having two or three groups that can do night kills might make the game very chaotic and unpredictable (Even though I guess its always a possibility). My thinking is Saruman's forces probably can do a night kill, but just not every night or maybe not more than once a game and want to try to identify a good target so its not wasted.


Finally to Saldana and Blade.. believe whatever you want. My posts day 1 were out of my love for this genre, and were not trying to incite a lynching. Long story short, but without Tolkien I actually never probably would have known about Baseball Mogul, FOF or OOTP and you all likely would never had to have put up with me in the first place. If you are clinging to the idea that I was doing some passive agressive lynch maneuvering with my comments then thats your prerogative. I've not lied about anything this game, my feelings or otherwise.

Good analysis on this one. Although saying you haven't lied makes me suspicious.... >_>

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Finally to Saldana and Blade.. believe whatever you want. My posts day 1 were out of my love for this genre, and were not trying to incite a lynching. Long story short, but without Tolkien I actually never probably would have known about Baseball Mogul, FOF or OOTP and you all likely would never had to have put up with me in the first place. If you are clinging to the idea that I was doing some passive agressive lynch maneuvering with my comments then thats your prerogative. I've not lied about anything this game, my feelings or otherwise.

Alan, you can stop defending yourself about yesterday to me....i let it go last night because i came to think that you were doing exactly what you say above....if i thought anything otherwise, you would have gotten my vote today.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm wondering if there is a dynamic in the game where certain factions can only kill every other night or have to wait a certain number of days to kill etc...

I find it impossible to believe anyone was lying low last night

It wouldn't surprise me. I suspect Alan isn't totally correct about the Saruman faction; if they are outnumbered and can't night kill they couldn't ever get their major victory. Something like this makes that work. There could be a fairly significant percentage of failures on night kills, too.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Good analysis on this one. Although saying you haven't lied makes me suspicious.... >_>

I am a hobbit in Real life.













There, now I can't say that any longer.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Keep looking on me I was on and posting all day yesterday

Sorry, with the giant history lesson that was going on most of the day, I'm sure posts got missed in my search for game-related posts.

[Thomkal]

Well I'm at a loss as to who to vote for today so far. Seems we have no real information other than to look at Fouts comments to see if he gave any hints.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

It wouldn't surprise me. I suspect Alan isn't totally correct about the Saruman faction; if they are outnumbered and can't night kill they couldn't ever get their major victory. Something like this makes that work. There could be a fairly significant percentage of failures on night kills, too.

Well thats why I said I wouldn't be suprised if Saruman's forces have some form of conversion that they can use (even possibly multiple times) as a balance. Saruman gained his forces by cross breeding Sauron's forces (such as orcs) with the good people (such as men) to form his army. Going along with this, I wouldn't be suprised if they have that ability.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am a hobbit in Real life.

There, now I can't say that any longer.

Great, now I can't trust you anymore! No circle of trust for j00!

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well thats why I said I wouldn't be suprised if Saruman's forces have some form of conversion that they can use (even possibly multiple times) as a balance. Saruman gained his forces by cross breeding Sauron's forces (such as orcs) with the good people (such as men) to form his army. Going along with this, I wouldn't be suprised if they have that ability.

Hm, perhaps. But they'd still have to be able to catch up to Sauron on numbers somehow in order to lynch kill them out of the game. Maybe they get some sort of defensive effects so that Sauron can't chip them down?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I'm under the impression that the Saruman forces outnumber Sauron. The intro says that both Sauron and the Rangers are small groups, but it doesn't say that about Saruman.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Well I'm at a loss as to who to vote for today so far. Seems we have no real information other than to look at Fouts comments to see if he gave any hints.

Looking at yesterday's action, Fouts voted against KWhit to get him to come out of the woodwork. Then I believe he was the fourth person to vote for Scoobz. What you can take from that is beyond me.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Alan T

On Page 1, he was listed as Silvos the dark adept. Needless to say, that is a fake name too. So I am pretty convinced most people if not all have fake names in this game. THe description still leads me to think it was the Saruman type role, but guess only time will tell. Either way I think this was a huge kill for us today. Nice for luck to turn out on our side for once.

My guess would be, dark adept = attempt to kill him by forces of darkness converts him to the side of those that make the attempt.

[KWhit]

Are we all forgetting Blade's crazy talk yesterday? What the heck was that about, anyway?

That's what started the whole Blade, Saldana, AlanT thing (that has now got Chief Rum in the hot seat too).

Blade's crazy talk is either:

1) Part of his role.
2) Some kind of gambit to do something.

If it's #1 and his role is somehow looney tunes, I can't see keeping him around because crazy folk aren't good for helping you win. Either he's somehow tainted by the One Ring or is otherwise mentally challenged.

If it's #2 and he was just trying to get a reaction out of someone - he succeeded. However, I don't know how that helps us good guys, and has likely distracted us into the Saldana-AlanT thing when it is quite possible that they are both good.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, along those lines, I think it's highly unlikely that anyone besides Scoobz was aware of his role.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

My guess would be, dark adept = attempt to kill him by forces of darkness converts him to the side of those that make the attempt.

i think this is highly likely, although i doubt it was an either/or situation....i think it was likely that he had to be found by a specific group of dark players.

i am figuring that there are actually very few true bad guys in the game, maybe 2 on each side to start, but with the ability to make multiple conversions throughout the game...i would guess they have some sort of seer ability to help them find their adepts.

my thought would be that there are 2 sauron and 2 saruman agents out there, with 2 or 3 possible conversions for each of them, and probably 3 rangers to balance them out.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Dola, along those lines, I think it's highly unlikely that anyone besides Scoobz was aware of his role.

Good luck getting Dolas during the afternoon in a game with 25 players!


-Anxiety

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Dola, along those lines, I think it's highly unlikely that anyone besides Scoobz was aware of his role.

Because nobody really stood up for him, or for another reason?

[saldana]

dola, the reason i doubt it was an either/or situation was because Sauron and Saruman are rivals in the game....finding and eliminating one of the opponents possible conversions would be a big benefit for either of them....if the adept could go either way, then finding one of them could unbalance that rivalry very early in the game with no way for the other side to catch up.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I find it interesting that KWhit starts trying to turn the attention to Blade after I mention how Fouts originally voted for him. I'm not accusing him of anything, I just find it interesting.

For the record, though, I do agree that Blade needs to go sooner rather than later. By either being crazy or acting crazy, he's really confused things. And I don't see how that helps the good guys.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Because nobody really stood up for him, or for another reason?

I would say because no one made a real effort to sway the vote from him when it became clear he was going to be one of the lynch candidates for the day.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

I find it interesting that KWhit starts trying to turn the attention to Blade after I mention how Fouts originally voted for him. I'm not accusing him of anything, I just find it interesting.

For the record, though, I do agree that Blade needs to go sooner rather than later. By either being crazy or acting crazy, he's really confused things. And I don't see how that helps the good guys.

i find it interesting that both you and Kwhit are trying to turn the attention back to blade right after he said he had classes for the next 4 hours and wouldnt be here to defend himself.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Because nobody really stood up for him, or for another reason?

Because that's the only way a non-affiliated dark side role makes any sense to me.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

And I find it interesting that you keep defending Blade against everyone.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think lynching the dark adept is a big positive outcome, but at the same time, there's very little to be learned from the vote.

Today, we need to do what we should have done yesterday and try to have a runoff between two villagers, rather than a pile-on onto one.

[SnDvls]

vote St. Cronin

I want to hear more from him

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I would say because no one made a real effort to sway the vote from him when it became clear he was going to be one of the lynch candidates for the day.

Except for DaddyTorgo, who need to be convinced to change his vote to Scoobz when there were already 11 votes cast against him.

[SnDvls]

I find it interesting that a lot of people are deflecting or accusing, but not making a lynch vote.

take a stand...yes you can change it later, but take a stand.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

I find it interesting that KWhit starts trying to turn the attention to Blade after I mention how Fouts originally voted for him. I'm not accusing him of anything, I just find it interesting.

If memory serves, Fouts voted for me because I hadn't shown up yet. I'm not too worried about him voting for me yesterday. It's not like he knew anything about me one way or the other.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Because that's the only way a non-affiliated dark side role makes any sense to me.

It will be nice when we get another dark guy taken out so we can compare the death messages. I agree that it sounds like Scoobz was non-affiliated, but I'm still not sure if I positively believe he was non-affiliated. A comparison message would be nice.

Either way, he was dark and it is good that he is dead. It just makes me nervous when I don't know how many bad teams there are.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by saldana

i find it interesting that both you and Kwhit are trying to turn the attention back to blade right after he said he had classes for the next 4 hours and wouldnt be here to defend himself.

So we're not supposed to speculate about people when they're not around?

Um.... Anyone who doesn't think Blade's behavior yesterday was at the very least odd needs to have their head examined.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I agree that it sounds like Scoobz was non-affiliated, but I'm still not sure if I positively believe he was non-affiliated.

He was dealing with sorcery but wasn't associated with Sauron. That to me means he was with Saruman.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by KWhit

So we're not supposed to speculate about people when they're not around?

Um.... Anyone who doesn't think Blade's behavior yesterday was at the very least odd needs to have their head examined.

as far as whether or not i thought blade was putting something odd in his pipe yesterday, i have already said that i did

and as far as speculating about people when they're not around, thats not what i said either...i just said i found it interesting that no one came out against blade until he said he was out for 4 hours

again, i am not defending blade per se......one of the things i like to do in these games is watch for who tries to push either for or against voting for certain players, and people who always want to lynch blade right away always set my alarm bells off.

[Swaggs]

Saldana seems to be much more confrontational than usual in this game.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

vote St. Cronin

I want to hear more from him

Cronin is being unusually quiet. I don't know what to make of it -- RL, or cronin sick of being killed? The latter certainly makes sense to me after his reaction last game.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

He was dealing with sorcery but wasn't associated with Sauron. That to me means he was with Saruman.

I am going to disagree with this. His info on page one says he was "on the side of darkness". Fouts info says he was "on the side of Light and the townsfolks". If Scoobz was on the side of Saruman, I think it would say so specifically.

[Neuqua]

Hey guys,
Just wanted to let you know I let Anxiety know that it would be of benefit to the ww experience if he found a replacement for me this week. Things are getting better with my grandfather but I plan on making many trips throughout the day to the hospital and that may hinder everyone elses' experience in enjoying the game as much as they could.

I'll be looking forward to next time though.

Good luck everybody.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Saldana seems to be much more confrontational than usual in this game.

swaggs, i am not trying to be confrontational, it is more of a factor that every time i play, i take alot of my thoughts to the grave with me because i get whacked so fast....this game i am just putting my analysis out there for the team so that when i die, my theories dont die with me.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

Hey guys,
Just wanted to let you know I let Anxiety know that it would be of benefit to the ww experience if he found a replacement for me this week. Things are getting better with my grandfather but I plan on making many trips throughout the day to the hospital and that may hinder everyone elses' experience in enjoying the game as much as they could.

I'll be looking forward to next time though.

Good luck everybody.

glad to hear things are looking up for gramps, neuqua...i am sure i speak for everyone that isnt in the thread right now saying our prayers and thoughts are with your family.

lynch you later,
sal

[Grammaticus]

Well for what it is worth regarding the one kill. The rules stated that Sauron’s agents actively seek to serve the forces of darkness and kill all who oppose them. They probably have night kills.

The agents of Saruman are trying to slowly bring Bree into the fold of Saruman through plitical, social and economic manipulation. That would suggest maybe no night kill, but some other power such as turning and likely can affect the agents of Sauron as well. It also says they use sorcery. An Adept uses magic/sorcery so it makes me think the dark adept is linked to Saruman in some way.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by saldana

swaggs, i am not trying to be confrontational, it is more of a factor that every time i play, i take alot of my thoughts to the grave with me because i get whacked so fast....this game i am just putting my analysis out there for the team so that when i die, my theories dont die with me.

also, i am home all day until the week after thanksgiving, so i am able to follow things along and comment on them when they actually happen instead of several hours later when i catch up after work.

[Lathum]

I think it is likely one of the dark factions attempted a conversion last night and failed for whatever reason

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think it is likely one of the dark factions attempted a conversion last night and failed for whatever reason

Out of curiosity why would you think its likely that this would be the outcome? I mean normally we have no idea when a conversion happens.. I can picture a conversion attempt happening fairly early this game, but why would you think its more likely they failed than succeeded?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Out of curiosity why would you think its likely that this would be the outcome? I mean normally we have no idea when a conversion happens.. I can picture a conversion attempt happening fairly early this game, but why would you think its more likely they failed than succeeded?

it's possible they did succed, I was just thinking back to the tombstone game when we tried an early conversion and failed so thats where my thoughts bought me.