Interesting times in Iran..

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah - i chuckle at whoever said this is over. this is a long way from over.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

yeah - i chuckle at whoever said this is over. this is a long way from over.

I continue to stand by my opinion that we have turned the corner on this and are heading in to the home stretch and I mean all of that in a bad way.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I continue to stand by my opinion that we have turned the corner on this and are heading in to the home stretch and I mean all of that in a bad way.

Of course you stand by your opinion. That would mean that you were wrong. Heaven forbid!

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by duckman

Of course you stand by your opinion. That would mean that you were wrong. Heaven forbid!

there is nothing more I want to be wrong about than this opinion so I, indeed, hope to be proven wrong and Iran and it's people get freed from that Theocracy. I simply dont see the numbers, firepower, or international support ot bring about the massive change that is needed and see it ending like it did in China did too many years ago.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

And, well, I'll let this speak for itself.........

Iran recount seen as bid to placate opposition - Yahoo! News

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, meanwhile, asked a top judge Monday to investigate the killing of Neda Agha Soltan, who became an icon of Iran's ragtag opposition after gruesome video of her bleeding to death on a Tehran street was circulated worldwide.

Ahmadinejad's Web site said Soltan was slain by "unknown agents and in a suspicious" way, convincing him that "enemies of the nation" were responsible.

It amazes me this guy can keep a straight face through half of the shit he says.

[JPhillips]

Sullivan has a post that says the recount shows an even greater margin of victory for Ahmadinejad. If you're going to lie make it a big lie.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Sullivan has a post that says the recount shows an even greater margin of victory for Ahmadinejad. If you're going to lie make it a big lie.

yeah - except the people didn't buy the initial lie so there's zero chance they buy the bigger one

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting read discussing the current tensions amongst the clerics. The Supreme Leader's integrity and power structure has really been compromised at this point. He's made a lot of enemies in recent days.

http://tehranbureau.com/widening-divide/

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Huge news coming out of Iran today. The most important religious group in Iran has called out the Supreme leader and his associates and declared the results to be illegitimate. Reports just out say that their site has been blocked by the government. This is likely to be a huge boost to the opposition. It puts the Supreme Council and the President on an island.

Leading Clerics Defy Ayatollah on Disputed Iran Election - NYTimes.com

The most important group of religious leaders in Iran has called the disputed presidential election and the new government illegitimate, an act of defiance against the country's supreme leader and the most public sign of a major split in the country's clerical establishment.

The statement by the Association of Researchers and Teachers of Qum represents a significant, if so far symbolic, setback for the government and especially the authority of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, whose word is supposed to be final. The government has tried to paint the opposition and its top presidential candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, as criminals and traitors, a strategy that now becomes more difficult -- if not impossible.

"This crack in the clerical establishment and the fact they are siding with the people and Moussavi in my view is the most historic crack in the 30 years of the Islamic republic," said Abbas Milani, director of the Iranian Studies Program at Stanford University. "Remember they are going against an election verified and sanctified by Khamenei."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More great news. A U.S. programmer has created an application that allows Iranians to circumvent the government controls. Should allow information to start flowing much more freely again.

Austin Heap » Blog Archive » Haystack: Good Luck Finding That Needle

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

More great news. A U.S. programmer has created an application that allows Iranians to circumvent the government controls. Should allow information to start flowing much more freely again.

Austin Heap » Blog Archive » Haystack: Good Luck Finding That Needle

As much as the "Government" in place will again acuse us of meddling, something little like this probably has a positive affect on the population in the way they view the west. Of course the population that wants/needs this probably already viewed us favorably anyway, while the ones that hate us will continue to.

Maybe a drop in the bucket, but it allows the opposition to stay informed and in touch and eventually even drops will fil a bucket.

The really good news for me in all this, is the Iranians now have an internal problem that is very much on the world stage and won't be explained away with propaganda and anti-west rhetoric.

[Flasch186]

Unfortunately the stature of the group that is calling out the people in charge, is questionable....the article below calls it a counter:

Originally Posted by Yahoo news

TEHRAN (AFP) – A pro-reform clerical group protested against the official results of Iran's June 12 presidential election, in a statement made available to AFP.

Blasting the official electoral watchdog, the Guardians Council, the Assembly of Qom Seminary Scholars and Researchers said it no longer had the "right to judge in this case as some of its members have lost their impartial image in the eyes of the public."

On Tuesday, the unelected 12-member council upheld the re-election of hardline incumbent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad over complaints of fraud from his challengers that had brought hundreds of thousands out onto the streets.

Government spokesman Gholam Hossein Elham is a council member.

The reformist clerics said the council "did not pay attention" to the complaints lodged by defeated candidates Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karroubi.

"The voice of people seeking justice was marred by violence which unfortunately left several dead and wounded and hundreds arrested," they said.

"How can one accept the legitimacy of the election just because the Guardians Council says so? Can one say that the government born out of these infringements is a legitimate one?"

The clerical group from Qom, the clerical nerve-centre of Iran, is a pro-reformist body seen as a counter to the conservative Qom Seminary Scholars Association.

The reformist clerics urged the authorities to release those arrested in post-election protests.

Pro-reform clerical body protests Iran elections - Yahoo! News

I love the new program and HOPE that it becomes widespread to get the ball rolling again. As I said before, IMO, this is over and will take another 3-5 years to make another attempt....but like I said to Duckman, I hope and pray I am wrong.

[Flasch186]

DOLA:

This carries more weight IMO:

Originally Posted by CNN

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- A former Iranian president who backed the top opposition leader in last month's disputed elections has delivered strong and carefully worded support of the grass-roots protest movement, saying he doubts that "any wakened consciousness would be satisfied with the resulting situation."

Ex-President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, here voting in Iran on June 12, says trust has been eroded.

Former President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, chairman of Iran's Assembly of Experts and a supporter of opposition leader Mir Hussein Moussavi, was quoted Saturday by the semi-official Iranian Labor News Agency.

Rafsanjani, who heads the group responsible for appointing or removing the supreme leader, was silent and largely unseen during the first two chaotic weeks after the contested June 12 elections. But Rafsanjani -- a key politician in the Islamic republic -- has become increasingly vocal about the elections results that gave hardline incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad an overwhelming victory.

Last week, Iran's election authority, the Guardian Council, said it considered the election outcome a closed case.

"People from across the country participated in the elections, with excitement," ILNA quoted Rafsanjani as saying in Saturday's story. "But unfortunately the events that occurred after that and the difficulties created for some left a bitter taste, and I don't think that any wakened consciousness would be satisfied with the resulting situation."

He referred to the recent expressions of opinions across the country regarding the election crisis as a reflection of a power struggle "at the highest levels of the system."

"I hope that with proper management and fortitude, in the next few days, we can be witnesses to the betterment of the situation, resolution of the difficulties and the decrease in the number of the families waiting for their loved ones," Rafsanjani said. "We must think about safeguarding the long term interests and benefits of the system."

While the protests over the election results mostly dissolved last week, those dissatisfied with the system continue to chant "Allahu Akbar" -- God is great -- from the rooftops in Tehran. Based on amateur footage viewed by CNN, the nighttime chanting went into its 21st consecutive day Friday.

Hopefully Rafsanjani can move the ball forward behind the scenes but the street protests are largely over while the chants continue at night.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

The really good news for me in all this, is the Iranians now have an internal problem that is very much on the world stage and won't be explained away with propaganda and anti-west rhetoric.

Exactly. Many of the pro-reform groups that were listed as outcasts by the theocracy/dictatorship represent the views of the majority in Iran. With the options online being reopened and the groups being termed as opposition or outsiders now carrying the support of the majority (they did before the election, but now they are able to voice their support), it's quickly coming to a point where the theocracy leaders need to start compromising or it's going to be a steady decline of their power structure. The opposition is in an excellent position to undermine everything the leaders think they can control. It can be done methodically and efficiently without much international help.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

need to start compromising or it's going to be a steady decline of their power structure.

Or alternately they can take the gloves off, cut the head off the proverbial snake (no offense intended, just a useful metaphor), and simply wait for the body to die around sundown.

I'd give you better odds on that scenario than the one you propose.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Videos are slow to come out, but they continue to leak out slowly. More video of protesters taking down police two days ago as the violence continues in the streets. The control structure has taken a heavy hit at this point when you have people openly taunting and beating police three weeks later.

YouTube - iranians beating the anti riot police (July 3rd 2009---Please share)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Saudi Arabia has now given Israel the OK to fly through their airspace to attack Iran........

Saudis give nod to Israeli raid on Iran - Times Online

[Flasch186]

Perhaps that video was a stealth riot, or one of the last or misdated?

TEHRAN, Iran – Iranian opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi made his first public appearance in a week Monday, vowing to continue his campaign against a government that he said lacks legitimacy. But his comments suggested he is abandoning massive street protests after they were quashed by a tough crackdown.

Mousavi's statements, reported on an pro-opposition news Web site, reflect his movement's struggles to survive after a wave of arrests that netted protesters, top pro-reform politicians and journalists. Hard-liners have called for Mousavi himself to be jailed. Since the crackdown, the dramatic marches that filled main streets after the disputed June 12 presidential elections have vanished.

Meanwhile, the Islamic clerical leadership is showing its determination to keep control. Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Monday issued a sharp warning to Western nations not to criticize Iran over its crackdown, saying relations will suffer if they are seen as "meddling." Iranians, he said, would "unite against their enemies into one fist."

His warning appeared to be directed at world powers gathering at the G8 summit in Rome this week, who are to consider a coordinated response to Iran's turmoil.

In another sign of the regime's new toughness, the head of Iran's Revolutionary Guard acknowledged for the first time that the elite force — controlled by Khamenei — played the key role in putting an end to street protests.

Gen. Mohammad Ali Jafari vowed to continue to defend the regime. The force's intervention gave "new life" to the 1979 Islamic Revolution and "strengthened the pillars of the Islamic Republic of Iran," he said in comments carried on the state news agency IRNA late Sunday.

"We believe that the Guards, in line with the mission to defend the revolution, must play a determining role in preserving and continuing the revolution (by saying revolution, he means ruling system)," he said.

Jafari's comments suggested that the force, which usually works behind the scenes, could take a more overt hand in Iran's politics after the biggest challenge to Iran's system of Islamic clerical rule in decades. The protests erupted after Mousavi declared fraud in official results that showed a landslide victory by incumbent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Khamenei declared the results valid, but the protesters continued even after he said demonstrations would not be tolerated, a rare defiance of the man who holds ultimate political, religious and military power in the country.

The crackdown unleashed by the Guards, police and pro-government Basij militia killed 20 protesters and injured hundreds more. Since then, there have been no major street protests for more than a week, and Mousavi has stayed out of the public eye.

On Monday, however, he greeted well-wishers at his Tehran home for a holiday commemorating Shiism's greatest saint, Imam Ali, according to the Web site Parsine, which posted photos of him sitting in a salon with men and women in chadors.

Mousavi said the election had revealed the "flaws in the system" and that the government had been undermined despite its show of force.

"When a government doesn't take shape within the framework of the law, it has no legitimacy in the eyes of the people. This weakens the government and encourages the government to resort to violence against the people," Mousavi said, according to Parsine.

"The legitimacy of this government is in question because of people's lack of trust. This weakens the government from within even if it preserves it in appearance," he said.

But even while vowing to push ahead, he seemed to suggest his campaign was moving into a new phase, away from protests and into political action.

"That protests subsided or were silenced doesn't remove the basis of the matter. I think this opposition movement will continue," he said. "We need to make efforts to show our protest ... within the framework of the law."

Mousavi said he intends to "work with a group in an organized way," suggesting that he may set up a political party.

But his political options could be limited. Many prominent figures from pro-reform parties have been arrested and could face charges of instigating unrest, making it unclear how much authorities will tolerate opposition political activities that were long allowed. An attempt at mainstream politics could also disillusion young activists who joined protests hoping for dramatic change.

Police say more than 1,000 people were detained in the protests, though they insist most have been released. The pro-reform Web site Norooznews said late Sunday that Hamid Maddah Shourcheh, a member of Mousavi's campaign office in the northeastern Iranian city of Mashhad, died of torture during detention.

Along with the other arrests, Iranian authorities are also still holding a local employee from the British Embassy, Hossein Rassam. His lawyer said Saturday that Rassam has been charged with "acting against national security."

The detention has brought vocal protests from Britain and the European Union ahead of the G8 summit in Rome. The summit includes Russia, which has close ties with Tehran, and Germany, which has substantial economic connections to Iran. Also attending the summit is President Barack Obama, who has sought to open a dialogue with Iran and who says the option of diplomacy is still open even after the election turmoil.

Khamenei's warning on Monday appeared aimed at signaling that any of those policies could be at risk if the West takes a harsh stance on Tehran.

"Some leaders of Western countries at the level of president, prime minister and foreign minister openly intervened in Iran's internal affairs that had nothing to do with them," he said in a speech to thousands of Iranians during ceremonies for Monday's holiday.

Khamenei said Iran will pay attention to the remarks and behaviors of Western governments.

"Be careful. The Iranian nation will show reaction. We will calculate these hostile remarks, these hostile behaviors," he said. "They should know this. This behavior will undoubtedly have negative impact on future relations and interactions between the Islamic Republic and the interventionists."

Iran's opposition leader makes public appearance - Yahoo! News

Im not sure that there wont be a more strategic time for a revolution in the next few years but IMO this isn't the right time once the momentum began to falter.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Flasch's article

Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Monday issued a sharp warning to Western nations not to criticize Iran over its crackdown, saying relations will suffer if they are seen as "meddling.

How exactly can the West's relationship with Iran get any worse?

[Flasch186]

the Evil Eye.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good article that details just how important the clerical group release calling the election illegitimate really is. It puts both the Supreme leader and the religious military groups in a bind. The religious establishment has issues at this point, both in the open and behind the scenes, that won't go away anytime soon.

Mullahs on My Mind

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Some brutal reports from Iranian doctors...........

Iran: doctors denounce terror in hospitals - National Council of Resistance of Iran - Foreign Affairs Committee

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Large protests expected today in Iran. Videos have been circulated detailing how to disable Basij motorcycles.

Also, more news coming out regarding the quickly widening cracks in the Supreme Leader's power. He has put his son in charge of the Basij, indicating increased disloyalty amongst the Basij ranks, who are little more than paid mercinary thugs for the most part who have no loyalty to the regime. The problem is that most of the clerical leaders see this move as a power grab. The only thing keeping the clerics from speaking out is a realization that their dissent could cause the entire political structure to collapse, opening the door wide for a full revolution.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...s-iran-militia

It's amazing that this situation has reached this level of instability and we haven't even reached the 40th day mourning protests that are likely to be very large and bloody.

[Flasch186]

I hope youre right in your expectations.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

How exactly can the West's relationship with Iran get any worse?

We could begin an indiscriminate bombing campaign that results in the widespread loss of life and turns what pro-Western (or at least ambivalent-Western) people do exist in Iran, against us as well.

Hey, you asked.

[Flasch186]

I hope MBBF's definition of Large is flexible:

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iranian pro-government Basij militia members dispersed crowds of protesters in Tehran Thursday -- sometimes with force -- according to a journalist on the scene.

Protests by Iranians, such as this one on June 15, have been defended by the reformist figures.

The demonstration is taking place on the 10th anniversary of a student uprising that, at the time, posed the biggest threat to the Islamic regime since its inception in 1979.

The protesters are using the anniversary to resume demonstrations against the outcome of the June 12 presidential election.

An estimated 2,000 to 3,000 people crowded the streets and headed toward Tehran University, the site of the 1999 student uprising.

Several protesters were hit on the arms and backs by the Basij, the journalist reported. The militia tried to persuade one man, whose face was bleeding, to get into an ambulance, but he refused.

Some of the protesters shouted "Allah u Akbar," or "God is Great" and "Ya Hussein, Mir Hussein" referring to opposition candidate Mir Hossein Moussavi.

Police blocked other roads leading to Tehran University, while some protesters set trash cans on fire to counter the effects of the tear gas.

Earlier, the commander of Iran's security forces warned that police would "strongly confront" anyone planning to protest on the anniversary of a pivotal point in Iran's reformist movement.

In an interview with the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA), Maj. Gen. Esmaeel Ahmadi Moghadam said authorities would confront protesters and that no demonstration permit had been issued for Thursday.

On July 9, 1999, known as the 18th of Tir in the Iranian calendar, 200 students protested the closing of a reformist newspaper, Salaam, which supported moderate President Mohammed Khatami. Hard-line activists entered dormitories in Tehran University, broke windows, set fires and attacked the students.

Tehran's governor, Morteza Tamaddon, issued a warning as the police chief, Maj. Seyed Hadi Hashemi, told IRNA that authorities are trying to encourage people to leave the capital before Thursday because of severe haze.

Hashemi "urged the citizens to consider Tehran's heavy pollution and travel outside of the capital for the weekend in order to help reduce traffic," IRNA reported.

Iranian-American journalist Jason Rezaian said Iranians were frightened after a brutal crackdown on those who protested the outcome of the June 12 presidential elections. Hardliner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was declared the winner over reformist candidate Moussavi, his chief rival.

Moussavi's supporters took to the streets by the thousands in the aftermath of the vote until the protests turned bloody as security forces cracked down.

Buzz of protests Thursday swirled on social networking sites but Rezaian said it was difficult to predict how such a landmark day might unfold.

He said he had heard something "big" would take place but no one wanted to talk about it for fear of tipping off the security forces.

Six days of protests erupted. According to Human Rights Watch, more than 25,000 people eventually participated, making the demonstrations the biggest threat to the Islamic regime since its inception in 1979.

"Obviously, there has been a crackdown and people are scared, said Rezaian, who covered the June elections and reported from Tehran for about 12 days afterward. He was forced to leave because of restrictions placed on international media outlets.

He said he had been in Iran in previous years on July 9 and had seen firsthand that security was heightened for the anniversary. Iranians, he said, have a penchant for marking all sorts of anniversaries and this one, this year, could not be more relevant.

"There is no fathomable way that after everything we've seen in the last 30 days that they wouldn't take this opportunity," Rezaian said.

Ultimately, he said, "it's one more important day in a succession of important days."

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

We could begin an indiscriminate bombing campaign that results in the widespread loss of life and turns what pro-Western (or at least ambivalent-Western) people do exist in Iran, against us as well.

Hey, you asked.

Actually, if there is one thing that historically has turned a group of civilians further away from hostility and belligerence--it's been indiscriminate bombing in rediculously large doses.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Incredible videos of the demonstrations over at Huffington Post. Pretty amazing how bad the MSM has been in reporting the number of protesters. They've really missed the boat on Iran over the past month. As Andrew Sullivan has pointed out in recent weeks, their reporting is relatively worthless if you're looking for good information. He's linked some live blogs where good information can be found.

The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

A dozen are reported dead, which is bad news for the regime. That just adds to the mourning protests and increases the opportunities for future protests. It's yet another situation that mirrors the issues that the Shah's regime had in 1979. It's almost eerie in its similarity.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More info coming out regarding protests. Many of MSM reports are only covering one protest, hence the reason for their inaccurate reports. A new tactic used today was to have many small protests across the city. The Basij and paramilitary were preparing for one large protest and are not equipped well for multiple clashes spread out over the city. It appears to have worked well as there are several reports where protesters overwhelmed the undermanned Basij in some areas. Probably will see more of this kind of tactic moving forward.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It appears to have worked well as there are several reports where protesters overwhelmed the undermanned Basij in some areas. Probably will see more of this kind of tactic moving forward.

One would think that it's the sort of tactic that works best the first time it's used & then with decreasing effectiveness afterwards. Unless of course the opponent is simply to stupid to adjust accordingly.

[Flasch186]

if 2000-3000 is large what is your definition of small?

I do not think the words "accurate" or "innacurate" means what you think it means.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

if 2000-3000 is large what is your definition of small?

I do not think the words "accurate" or "innacurate" means what you think it means.

Are the numbers from CNN accurate? They have done a horrible job of covering the crisis, and have noone inside Iran anymore, methinks.

[Flasch186]

dunno, but that info is just as good as MBBF's garnered from Blogs....

{shrug}

MBBF has an agenda in this thread (much like many others) and it would be nice to see him be 'real' instead of spinning one way or the other ESPECIALLY considering that 100% of the people in this thread support the Iranian people in this and hope that they do get democracy, true democracy, and their freedom(s). I mean why is MBBF spinning the people that are walking lockstep with him...like were in Jonestown or something.

[duckman]

Just like Flasch trying to prove he's the authority of what is right or decent, but coming off as a self centered piece of trash. It's more important to be right than anything else that is meaningful.

Again, MBBF = Flasch.

[Flasch186]

mmmmk.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

One would think that it's the sort of tactic that works best the first time it's used & then with decreasing effectiveness afterwards. Unless of course the opponent is simply to stupid to adjust accordingly.

They've shown several tactic changes thus far. Most of the changes follow the blueprint of the 1979 revolution and have worked well. They'll have to make sure they keep switching on the fly.

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Are the numbers from CNN accurate? They have done a horrible job of covering the crisis, and have noone inside Iran anymore, methinks.

Crowd estimates on the ground yesterday were around 25,000. As mentioned before, they were in 6-8 locations until joining together late in the day.

[Flasch186]

Link?

[CamEdwards]

Give it a rest Flasch. It's a big enough story that it was on the front page of the Washington Post today (color picture above the fold, story on page A12). You're trying to pick a fight where there's no need for one.

[Flasch186]

I dont get the Washington Post nor do I troll the online newspapers daily (maybe I should). I was truly hoping he could point me in the direction of the data, from a reliable source, so I can believe what he is 'seeing'. We're all rooting for them but he peppers his posts with so much spin it's hard to know what is real and spin...For example the police building set on fire...well not really. Im not asking for much when I ask for a link from a reputable news source as opposed to a blog or twitter account.

and than FWIW we have this thread be a partisan free zone and he starts using these colorful adjectives in his posts that make it hard to get only facts so one HAS to start digging for the data and cobbling their own opinions (like mine). I have no idea if Im right or wrong, much to Duckman's chagrine, but from what I read, from trusted sources (whether or not the right who the F knows) I form an opinion, like everyone else. As I said Im on MBBF's side on this but want the facts (whatever there are and less PS3 spin).

[fantom1979]

It really hard not to get the news from Twitter or Blogs, since thats where CNN is getting their news from. I don't think CNN has a reporter within 500 miles of Tehran.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

if 2000-3000 is large what is your definition of small?

I do not think the words "accurate" or "innacurate" means what you think it means.

You call this assy post "truly hoping he could point me in the direction of data"?

First of all, he already said before this that he's seen reports of 25,000. Therefore, he's not saying that 2000-3000 is large, he's saying that 25,000 is large.

Also, I love the princess bride and all, but that line is so condescending and insulting when used in real life. If you want something to respond to, you can say what you're thinking about his use of the word "accurate" rather than pull this crap. And if you ARE going to do it, at least spell "inaccurate" properly, and use proper conjugation!

[Flasch186]

I would venture to guess that CNN, which Im actually quite dismayed about, is filtering through all the twittering and blogging (which makes their channel unbearable) and would vocalize and paint the stuff that has some semblance of credility or slap the all too often used "unsubstantiated" in the bottom right corner of the screen. I dont watch much MSNBC because they seem to be the same as Fox so Im left watching CNBC. {shrug} which aint too bad after all.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

You call this assy post "truly hoping he could point me in the direction of data"?

First of all, he already said before this that he's seen reports of 25,000. Therefore, he's not saying that 2000-3000 is large, he's saying that 25,000 is large.

Also, I love the princess bride and all, but that line is so condescending and insulting when used in real life. If you want something to respond to, you can say what you're thinking about his use of the word "accurate" rather than pull this crap. And if you ARE going to do it, at least spell "inaccurate" properly, and use proper conjugation!

thats not true. In his earlier post he said large and the news reports were 2000-3000 so it is a valid question to ask if he considers that large, small, and vice versa. 25,000 was drummed up later in the thread.

My apologies on the spelling, sometimes my speed trumps my spelling but it doesnt change the fact that this thread, one in which we are all in the same fan club, gets spun when it doesnt need to be, as Wade pointed out earlier.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I stated mine a few pages earlier that we are seeing this wind down. I continue to stand by that opinion and hope to be proven wrong. MBBF's newsdrops just simply are not accurate {shrug} but spun....in a thread that doesnt need to be.

The Obama thread, sure. The Palin thread. Ok. PS3 v Xbox. fire away....But why here?

[duckman]

Typical Flasch response. Read the sig.

[Flasch186]

yup, im one piece of trash in this world.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by article

Troops willing to die to stop Iran unrest, general says

updated 3:47 a.m. EDT, Sun July 12, 2009

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- A top Iranian general said government troops are "ready to sacrifice our lives" rather than back down in the face of protests over June's disputed presidential election.
Iranians have held mass protests, such as this one on June 15, over the recent disputed presdential election.

Iranians have held mass protests, such as this one on June 15, over the recent disputed presdential election.

Gen. Sayyed Hassan Firouzabadi, chief of Iran's Joint Armed Forces, said Iranian soldiers were willing to die as they did in the brutal eight-year Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s, according to the state-run Fars News Agency.

"Some may think that by protesting and chanting their slogans against us, we will back down, retreat and give up," Firouzabadi said. "We are ready to sacrifice our lives, as we showed during the time of the Sacred Defense [the Iran-Iraq war]."

The government has cracked down on Iranians who protested the outcome of the June 12 election in which hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was declared the winner over his chief rival, reformist Mir Hossein Moussavi.

Moussavi called the vote fraudulent and his supporters took to the streets by the thousands, sparking clashes between demonstrators and government troops, and members of a pro-government paramilitary force.

"The military uniform, in the system of the Islamic Republic, which is the system of the holy Quran, is the uniform of the Prophet's faithful, Firouzabadi said. "It is the uniform of service to the supreme leadership and the people."

Meanwhile, Brig. Gen. Azizollah Rajabzadeh, Tehran's police chief, announced the creation of a 50,000-strong constable-like force called the "honorary police officers" that will assist police units, state-run Press TV reported.

Rajabzadeh said the honorary police force could eventually expand to 300,000 nationwide.

Troops willing to die to stop Iran unrest, general says - CNN.com

[JonInMiddleGA]

I still find all the folks who seem enamored with the latest urgently breaking mega mond news from the techno doodads incredibly amusing.

Largely out of touch with reality (and realpolitik in particular) & likely targets for future sales of bridges, swamp land, and incredible opportunities for substantial wealth from Nigeria ... but amusing nonetheless.

[Flasch186]

Jon, that sentence hurt my head

[flere-imsaho]

I'd like to point out that if you're in the oil business, there are, in fact, opportunities for incredible wealth from Nigeria and most involve being in a swamp, coincidentally.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I'd like to point out that if you're in the oil business, there are, in fact, opportunities for incredible wealth from Nigeria and most involve being in a swamp, coincidentally.

My wife's great grandparents had a large plot of land in Canada that they farmed in the late 1800s. They sold it after a couple of years for pennies on the dollar. Nothing would grow on the land because they had all this black ooze coming up everywhere on the property.