WW 100: Game over!

[Autumn]

I don't have the information on activity that would glue this all together. Jackal and Darth jump out as having nothing meaningful in their voting. The others I think I'd have to know more about when they were in thread, which I can't do right now.

I am inclined to vote Darth out of this particular set of data.

[Autumn]

And now I need to do some work. Hopefully someone else wiill pick up the data and run with it.

[EagleFan]

vote RealDeal

Logic: Love/hate guy can be either wolf or village. If he is wolf and learns one person a night that hates him they can orchestrate a way to almost make it impossible to get him voted out by night killing those players and leaving behind the ones that love him.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Just the way you popped in, threw a vote on a candidate who hadn't had one until a couple minutes before with no real reason. It just seemed ... odd.

Again....it was day 1, and I generally do that kind of thing every game. I catch crap for it, but I do it because I don't want to have a WW Schmidty or a Villager Schmidty. That's that.

Other than that, what can I say to defend myself? Nothing. It's day 1.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Dubb is first on Saldana early. No movement there for a long time and then some traction at the end of the day. Again, if he was around early seemed like a waste.

Whatever Autumn. Atleast I was willing to introduce my candidate early and campaign to get him lynched all day. I was able to convince two and up until the very end three to vote his way as well. Keep in mind people unvoted Saldana at the very end.

I guess from this point forward I should come in at the very end and instead of voting for someone I think is a wolf I should rather vote with the following strong, strong, strong logic.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I don't want the voting to be too close given all the weird vote things going on but I can't see voting for CF or PB right now.


Vote KWHIT

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You can't deny that your move could be looked at as an attempt to get heat off PB once Saldana got a few votes.

I can deny anything I choose

[dubb93]

You know what, fuck this. Autumn has pissed me off. He acts like I voted Saldana, said nothing, left for the day and come back and magically there are other votes for him.

Vote Autumn

This is based simply on his distortion of the facts here.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Path voted J23 late trying to push him into contender status. I'm not sure what I think about this vote, could be considered a throwaway but seems more like an attempt to get a different target out there.

You are correct in your thoughts on this. I wasn't really sold on either KWhit or PB so focused on someone who seemed more suspicious to me.

In retrospect, I should have went with one or the other of the top votegetters because a tie sucks. If I hadn't been summoned by my better half I might've.

[Poli]

I <3 dubb. Did I do that right?

[dubb93]

Poli!

[Schmidty]

Vote Autumn

I agree that Autumn is quick to throw people out there with a huge lack iof evidence. I know we have to have candidates early in the game, but I know I'm good, so if he can think I'm bad based on nothing, I can do the same thing.

Plus he's been picking on me in recent games.

[Autumn]

Dubb, you are taking this way out of proportion. I just wrote a bunch of stuff about lots and lots of people. And said several times that we need the context of when people were in thread, etc. You picking yourself out of that long list and going crazy about it seems a bit weird.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

This - the wolves would take a tie rather than lose one of their own. If they controlled one of the voting powers, they knew that they were improving their lot in life.

KWhit made the late "save self" switch as well - I would expect a wolf with that power to try and save it for the very last minute. In KWhit's case, that was one minute before deadline. Does self-preservation make him a wolf? Nope, but this was definitely "late movement".

PurdueBrad made a late move to switch his vote, saying he was worried about vote padding - again, a late self preservation vote is something both villagers and wolves do. But this is still "late movement".

My main issue here is that the tone of the thread so far seems to be giving a lot more trust/leeway to the two main guys in the vote on a day filled with big-time runs. I'm not saying that they are the only two we look at, but they are certainly both still on my list right now.

I don't like the overanalysis of "late moves". Remeber that this is an online game and everyone is not online the whole time due to life, school, family, work, etc.

Also realize that analyzing the "this person knows that" and "a wolf would know that". Nobody knows anything about anybody except that the wolves know who each other are. The resurrector does not know who is a wolf. The wolves do not know what role anyone else is (and thus cannot use that as a factor). Rezzie does not know who rezzer is. Only thing is that wolves know each other's role. BUt I'm not so sure they use it as overstrategically as one might think. (due to life, etc)

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Again....it was day 1, and I generally do that kind of thing every game. I catch crap for it, but I do it because I don't want to have a WW Schmidty or a Villager Schmidty. That's that.

Other than that, what can I say to defend myself? Nothing. It's day 1.

You do what every game?

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Dubb, you are taking this way out of proportion. I just wrote a bunch of stuff about lots and lots of people. And said several times that we need the context of when people were in thread, etc. You picking yourself out of that long list and going crazy about it seems a bit weird.

I don't know. I've been heavily annoyed and almost to the pissed off point a couple times so far. Not extremely mind you, but he was getting picked on a couple times for no reason too. Anyway, overanalysis is indeed a valid reason to vote for you. And an outburst like that is also possibily a throw off the track move. Really human nature is what makes this game hilarious because everyone thinks every move, word, comma, etc a suspicion as a werewolf.

[Darth Vilus]

I'm not gonna lie, I really want to vote autumn. He seems to see things that aren't there. for example he thinks my votes are wasted, but it's not like i can change them later in the day cuz i have work. u guys know i have to vote early most of the time. He's either a wolf or an overzealous villager, and i am inclined to believe the latter. so i dont really think he's a wolf.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Vote Autumn

I agree that Autumn is quick to throw people out there with a huge lack iof evidence. I know we have to have candidates early in the game, but I know I'm good, so if he can think I'm bad based on nothing, I can do the same thing.

Plus he's been picking on me in recent games.

And this is a complete distortion of what I'm doing. I tried to analyze all the main contenders in yesterday's vote to see if there was anything in the voting record. I also went through that list of people who had supposedly voted for dead candidates to see if I agreed. There isn't a lot of evidene there, but I also didn't really suggest anyone as candidates. The nearest to a conclusion I came to is that Jackal and Darth haven't really made any meaningful votes.

And then in your case I said that i had a gut feel about you on day one, which is something other people have said about other people a dozen times in this game and every game.

This sounds like typical "let's take the guy who is talking a lot and therefore opening himself up to attack". If I was "throwing people out there without a lot of evidence" as you claim I probably would have, I don't know, thrown some people out there. Dubb picked himself from a list of 6-8 people, I didn't do that. You're the only one I've come close to pointing a finger at and yet didn't really mention you at all in any of my analysis.

Give me a break guys.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Autumn

You do what every game?

Make a lame day 1 vote on purpose.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

I'm not gonna lie, I really want to vote autumn. He seems to see things that aren't there. for example he thinks my votes are wasted, but it's not like i can change them later in the day cuz i have work. u guys know i have to vote early most of the time. He's either a wolf or an overzealous villager, and i am inclined to believe the latter. so i dont really think he's a wolf.

I'll say for the third time that I pointed out that the problem with that list is we need to know when people were in thread, and when people left for the day. I personally have no idea what your schedule is without looking back through the thread, which I specifically said earlier I hadn't had time to do yet.

I put those things up and asked for response. A good response would be, "I was out all day and could not change my votes."

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I don't know. I've been heavily annoyed and almost to the pissed off point a couple times so far. Not extremely mind you, but he was getting picked on a couple times for no reason too. Anyway, overanalysis is indeed a valid reason to vote for you. And an outburst like that is also possibily a throw off the track move. Really human nature is what makes this game hilarious because everyone thinks every move, word, comma, etc a suspicion as a werewolf.

Well, I certainly don't think he can claim that I have been picking on him.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Make a lame day 1 vote on purpose.

Ah, well that would explain it ;-)

[Darth Vilus]

I need to catch up more so that i have a better feel of everyone in this game, work has taken it's toll. I'm just gonna go ahead and

vote realdeal

Just to keep it close even though it's still early

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Autumn

This sounds like typical "let's take the guy who is talking a lot and therefore opening himself up to attack".

This is how I think I ended up with so many votes myself so I'm with you on that one. I do think it's ludicrous to suggest that someone who is bringing up important facts is automatically a wolf. My own thinking on why I said so many things was that I had ideas and observations and if I hold them in , I might die tonight and thus no one would hear them. Granted others may have thought of them too. There is of course the problem that overanalysis and stating of facts borders on bullying which is why you are rubbing people the wrong way now.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Whatever Autumn. Atleast I was willing to introduce my candidate early and campaign to get him lynched all day. I was able to convince two and up until the very end three to vote his way as well. Keep in mind people unvoted Saldana at the very end.

Again, this is the kind of explanation that I was hoping people would give for their votes so that we can figure things out. If people could explain themselves without getting testy maybe we'd get somewhere. Ther'es no way I can tell from the vote record whether someone voted early and left, voted early and campaigned for their candidate, or voted early and campaigned for someone else. And as I've said, I haven't had time to go back and check that on everyone. I was hoping other people would do some of the legwork also.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Ah, well that would explain it ;-)

In fact, when Poli and I played, we would automatically vote for each other on the first day every time.

It help me when I'm a wolf and when I'm a villager.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

This is how I think I ended up with so many votes myself so I'm with you on that one. I do think it's ludicrous to suggest that someone who is bringing up important facts is automatically a wolf. My own thinking on why I said so many things was that I had ideas and observations and if I hold them in , I might die tonight and thus no one would hear them. Granted others may have thought of them too. There is of course the problem that overanalysis and stating of facts borders on bullying which is why you are rubbing people the wrong way now.

Oh, I'm used to this. It's standard I think that whoever talks a lot will eventually get targeted, regardless what they say. It's why the wolves tend to keep quieter. I just posted a bunch of lists of who voted for what, I could post my laundry list and if I talked enough I'd get votes.

I'm not too worried about it. Hopefully some villagers will work with what's there and figure something out I haven't been smart enough to figure.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by saldana

sorry to have missed all the fun last night...i was out til almost 9 and had a raid scheduled almost as soon as I got in.

i would agree that the lack of movement to save either Kwhit or PB probably means they are both clean, so they each move up a bit

dubb, i will explain myself one more time...i agreed with the concept of voting you yesterday morning because you had not voted the previous day (nor explained why). i myself did not vote for you because i voted for you on day one (out of sheer nostalgia) and am not quite ready to risk triggering the "die when you vote for someone a second time" mechanic that is still out there. once you came in and said you messed up the deadline time, any reason I DID have for agreeing with votes for you went out the window.

that said, if you would like to persist with having a hardon for me, I will have to reconsider my risk assessment regarding a 2nd vote for you.

as far as CF goes, the logic process leaves alot to be desired from my book, starting with the fact that he threw out and then proceeded to do absolutely NOTHING except backpedal away from it...if you were having such an "aha" moment, why didnt you vote for Autumn?

Never backpedaled away from that statement at all. It seems (for some reason ) that no one was getting it when it wasn't that complicated. I didn't vote for him because no one else had and you loooked more guilty to me for your jumping on me quickly after I got two. (as someone else pointed out). And when you got two votes, then you were my clear choice as the only one of my three suspects with votes.

Also this distortion of the facts and trying to implicate me again further makes me feel you are still one of the wolves.

[hoopsguy]

CrimsonFox, just a quick note - it is not acceptable to edit posts in the WW thread unless you are the moderator. I don't know if it is called out in the rules of this game explicitly, but it is understood as a rule on this forum.

[path12]

Jesus Christ, I forgot how much sand gets in vaginas during these games.

Werewolf: Sign up for the fun, stay for the irrational anger!

[hoopsguy]

Also, I'm 100% behind Autumn working through his thought process in the thread and don't think that it makes him any more likely to be a villager or a wolf. I would much rather have people presenting their thoughts in the thread than just responding to posts of others and voting. It makes for a more interesting game, both to play and to read along with when I'm not playing.

[CrimsonFox]

Still liking three particular candidates:
henry - still doesn't communicate. does log in but doesn't do much or vote. Then votes with little explanation. And I don't buy the "my phone keeps me logged in even tho I'm not there" story. One of the original DT voters (which everyone seems to have forgotten about)

saldana - jumped on me quickly once 2 others did. Keepsa pushing me as a killer and now is trying to distort my statements adding untruths to them.

Autumn - The Lathum thing. Over-overanalysis. Playing the shell game of focus.

hmmmm decisions, decisions...
Will probably change my mind a few times but
VOTE AUTUMN

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

In fact, when Poli and I played, we would automatically vote for each other on the first day every time.

It help me when I'm a wolf and when I'm a villager.

But the mixed blessing of it is that it is harder for villagers to make you for a villager, which is kind of important in a game of incomplete information.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

CrimsonFox, just a quick note - it is not acceptable to edit posts in the WW thread unless you are the moderator. I don't know if it is called out in the rules of this game explicitly, but it is understood as a rule on this forum.

oops my bad. In each case I wanted to add another sentence or two I thought of after I saved.

[hoopsguy]

No worries; just wanted to call it out now rather than have it come up later.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by path12

Jesus Christ, I forgot how much sand gets in vaginas during these games.

Werewolf: Sign up for the fun, stay for the irrational anger!

FUCK YOU PATH! GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

But the mixed blessing of it is that it is harder for villagers to make you for a villager, which is kind of important in a game of incomplete information.

Very true, but it is what it is.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Still liking three particular candidates:
henry - still doesn't communicate. does log in but doesn't do much or vote. Then votes with little explanation. And I don't buy the "my phone keeps me logged in even tho I'm not there" story. One of the original DT voters (which everyone seems to have forgotten about)

For what it's worth, Henry has been logged in like that on every game I've ever played on here. And it's a kind of rule here that nobody will lie about real life stuff like that. Either way, I'm sure he's telling the truth, because he does that even when he's not in the game.

[path12]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

FUCK YOU PATH! GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL. I get that a lot.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by path12

LOL. I get that a lot.

gotcha

[Autumn]

Well, if you guys are right that I'm a wolf, let's figure out to what purpose I would be making a big splash in the thread today and drawing attention. Optimal strategy for me as a wolf would be to be fairly quiet and not draw any looks.

The only reason that it would make sense for me to make such a splash is because i didn't like the trail the village was on and wanted to head them down a new one. So, the question is what path was the village on before I started talking? And who am I trying to lead people away from? If I was a wolf, that is.

Frankly, vote analysis aside, the fact that neither Kwhit nor PB are really getting looks today is interesting to me. I'm tempted to go look back at these two. That would be the natural inclination of the village, I would think, and the fact that nobody's going there makes me wonder.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Frankly, vote analysis aside, the fact that neither Kwhit nor PB are really getting looks today is interesting to me. I'm tempted to go look back at these two. That would be the natural inclination of the village, I would think, and the fact that nobody's going there makes me wonder.

you're right. Everybody but you is a wolf...

[hoopsguy]

Autumn, welcome to where I started this morning - trying to figure out why we were dropping both of the tie candidates from voting consideration today.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by saldana

for me it was the fact that no one knew it was going to be a tie...the tie was generated by a padded vote somewhere, so it looked as if Kwhit was going to go and no one started juggling votes around to keep him alive...maybe it doesnt do so much to make me feel better about PB, but i would have expected the wolves to try to keep one of their own (kwhit)alive, and I didnt see that.

This is the first thing you've said that makes sense. Kwhit (as wolf) would know that he were going to die as would the other wolf. and save him. Unless they were already both voting for PB. I'm liking the Kwhit is villager notion. Then again I never suspected him in the first place.

[hoopsguy]

Best I can tell, the candidates right now are the "too risky a declared role to leave alive" and "talks too much, has angered me with analysis that may somehow implicate me" guys.

My vote will likely be coming in late today, as the afternoon is slammed and my evening time pre-deadline will be limited. But I hope I'm not having to choose between these two.

[Autumn]

(346) – Autumn votes Kwhit (Kwhit 4, CrimsonFox 3, PurdueBrad 3, EagleFan 2, J23 1, dubb93 1, saldana 1)
(349) – Kwhit votes saldana (Kwhit 4, CrimsonFox 3, PurdueBrad 3, EagleFan 2, saldana 2, J23 1, dubb93 1)
(350) – PurdueBrad unvotes CrimsonFox (Kwhit 4, PurdueBrad 3, CrimsonFox 2, EagleFan 2, saldana 2, J23 1, dubb93 1)
(361) – CrimsonFox unvotes PurdueBrad, votes saldana (Kwhit 4, saldana 3, PurdueBrad 2, CrimsonFox 2, EagleFan 2, J23 1, dubb93 1)
(363) – PurdueBrad votes J23 (Kwhit 4, saldana 3, PurdueBrad 2, CrimsonFox 2, EagleFan 2, J23 2, dubb93 1)
(366) – path12 votes J23 (Kwhit 4, saldana 3, J23 3, PurdueBrad 2, CrimsonFox 2, EagleFan 2, dubb93 1)
(368) – RealDeal unvotes EagleFan, votes PurdueBrad (Kwhit 4, saldana 3, J23 3, PurdueBrad 3, CrimsonFox 2, EagleFan 1, dubb93 1)
(384) – Lathum unvotes CrimsonFox, votes PurdueBrad (Kwhit 4, PurdueBrad 4, saldana 3, J23 3, CrimsonFox 1, EagleFan 1, dubb93 1)
(386) – Schmidty votes Kwhit (Kwhit 5, PurdueBrad 4, saldana 3, J23 3, CrimsonFox 1, EagleFan 1, dubb93 1)
(399) – PurdueBrad unvotes J23, votes Kwhit (Kwhit 6, PurdueBrad 4, saldana 3, J23 2, CrimsonFox 1, EagleFan 1, dubb93 1)
(402) – Kwhit unvotes saldana, votes PurdueBrad (Kwhit 6, PurdueBrad 5, saldana 2, J23 2, CrimsonFox 1, EagleFan 1, dubb93 1)

I'm looking at this through some scenarios.

Let's suppose KWhit's a wolf. In the lead in voting towards the end of the day he votes Saldana instead of CF or PB. Moves by CF and PB and Path make Saldana and then J23 the contenders after Kwhit. RealDeal and Lathum undo that, pushing PB back to the fore. At which point Schmidty and PB nail Kwhit in the lead.

If Kwhit was bad I can't see this making sense unless CF and PB were also bad. I have to think he would have pushed one of those two instead of heading off in a new direction. If CF, PB and Kwhit were all bad this would make some sense. Thoughts?

I will look at PB being bad next, so nobody get their panties in a bunch please.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

This is the first thing you've said that makes sense. Kwhit (as wolf) would know that he were going to die as would the other wolf. and save him. Unless they were already both voting for PB. I'm liking the Kwhit is villager notion. Then again I never suspected him in the first place.

Crimson, there are almost certainly more than two wolves in a game with twenty people.

For better or worse, this statement actually makes me trust you a bit more than the average villager right now. I'm pretty sure a wolf would know their numbers and not make statements that are as seemingly off-base as this one.

[path12]

I've been thinking.

To me, the fact that nobody has come out as the Vengeful God makes me suspect that role belongs to a wolf. If I had it as a villager I would have broadcasted the hell out of it.

So, I've used my role. What's stopping me from making consecutive votes on everyone and seeing who blows me up?

Interested to hear thoughts on this before I decide to try it or not.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

vote RealDeal

Logic: Love/hate guy can be either wolf or village. If he is wolf and learns one person a night that hates him they can orchestrate a way to almost make it impossible to get him voted out by night killing those players and leaving behind the ones that love him.

huh? Don't follow. Lovehate guy does what?

And Darth why are you voting for Realdeal. You said you want to vote for autumn and throw a blind vote to realdeal. None of your voting has made sense.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Crimson, there are almost certainly more than two wolves in a game with twenty people.

For better or worse, this statement actually makes me trust you a bit more than the average villager right now. I'm pretty sure a wolf would know their numbers and not make statements that are as seemingly off-base as this one.

hmmmm...cleared by stupidity....not sure how to take that except that the werewolves will probably gank me now. Thanks a lot

[Autumn]

(346) – Autumn votes Kwhit (Kwhit 4, CrimsonFox 3, PurdueBrad 3, EagleFan 2, J23 1, dubb93 1, saldana 1)
(349) – Kwhit votes saldana (Kwhit 4, CrimsonFox 3, PurdueBrad 3, EagleFan 2, saldana 2, J23 1, dubb93 1)
(350) – PurdueBrad unvotes CrimsonFox (Kwhit 4, PurdueBrad 3, CrimsonFox 2, EagleFan 2, saldana 2, J23 1, dubb93 1)
(361) – CrimsonFox unvotes PurdueBrad, votes saldana (Kwhit 4, saldana 3, PurdueBrad 2, CrimsonFox 2, EagleFan 2, J23 1, dubb93 1)
(363) – PurdueBrad votes J23 (Kwhit 4, saldana 3, PurdueBrad 2, CrimsonFox 2, EagleFan 2, J23 2, dubb93 1)
(366) – path12 votes J23 (Kwhit 4, saldana 3, J23 3, PurdueBrad 2, CrimsonFox 2, EagleFan 2, dubb93 1)
(368) – RealDeal unvotes EagleFan, votes PurdueBrad (Kwhit 4, saldana 3, J23 3, PurdueBrad 3, CrimsonFox 2, EagleFan 1, dubb93 1)
(384) – Lathum unvotes CrimsonFox, votes PurdueBrad (Kwhit 4, PurdueBrad 4, saldana 3, J23 3, CrimsonFox 1, EagleFan 1, dubb93 1)
(386) – Schmidty votes Kwhit (Kwhit 5, PurdueBrad 4, saldana 3, J23 3, CrimsonFox 1, EagleFan 1, dubb93 1)
(399) – PurdueBrad unvotes J23, votes Kwhit (Kwhit 6, PurdueBrad 4, saldana 3, J23 2, CrimsonFox 1, EagleFan 1, dubb93 1)
(402) – Kwhit unvotes saldana, votes PurdueBrad (Kwhit 6, PurdueBrad 5, saldana 2, J23 2, CrimsonFox 1, EagleFan 1, dubb93 1)

Looking at it again, let's assume PB was bad. If so it was a litlte bit ballsy to unvote CF at the beginning of this section. He goes J23 instead, and Path helps make that a viable option. CF backs off of PB, which makes it seem he's in the clear. PB then gets two sudden votes and is right up on top. Schmidty saves PB's bacon and then PB moves his vote to KWhit and pads that out.

When it was 4-4, Kwhit and PB still had their votes to move, so would cancel each other out. PB had to depend on others then. If he was bad, Schmidty obviously would be the guy to look at next.

There's nothing as odd in this stretch of voting if you imagine PB is bad. NOT THAT THAT NECESSARILY MEANS ANYTHING.