Werewolf XXX: The Ghost Council of Orzhova - Game Over - Game Ends Night Five

[KWhit]

Between Hoops and Fouts, I think we picked the wrong guy. I suppose it's possible that they're both clean and Fouts was just mistaken, but it makes no sense for Fouts to lie to try to set up Hoops.

[saldana]

i dont like that at all.

[saldana]

neither do i

[path12]

Shit. To paraphrase Schimidty, I suck at this game.

[KWhit]

Good job Fouts-voters. Grrrrrr.....

[saldana]

alan, how did your vote get on Fouts? post 473 you voted for hoops?

[Chief Rum]

This is very troubling. I feel as if I have killed a true believer, and on little information. I will have to remedy this tonight.

[Barkeep49]

Bah.

[Swaggs]

Hmmm.

I'm expecting some feigned shock very soon.

[Abe Sargent]

It's date night for me so my description was more brief than I'd prefer but I have to get back to my ladyfriend. I'll be back on after a while.

[SnDvls]

you guys are on a hugh posting binge...it's only day 2 and you've gotten up to 11 pages...WOW!!

[tanglewood]

Well, damn.

Hopefully Fouts' ghost will be able to impart something to us over the night.

[Barkeep49]

I'm a little curious about Alan's newfound powers as well, I must admit.

[saldana]

and we know now that Hoopsguy's entire story about the 3rd faction is a load of shit.....can we just skip the day action tomorrow....lets have a night until 3 am, an instant lynch for Hoops, followed by another night til about noon, and then run day 4 from noon til 9pm....who is with me?

[hoopsguy]

There is no feigned shock coming here. I'm a dead man tomorrow. Good luck the rest of the way; we are going to be behind the eight ball with three dead already and me being the only role reveal for beyond the grave.

[saldana]

good, glad to have you aboard, as opposed to all these others that are trying to kill me all the time.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by saldana

alan, how did your vote get on Fouts? post 473 you voted for hoops?

Hoops forced me to change my vote

[tanglewood]

Okay:

Saldana - What is up with you? Schizophrenic?
Chief Rum - What do you have to do tonight, are you an assasin? If so, I would certainly hold off on using any one-off ability until later in the game when we have more info.
AlanT - How did you manage to change your vote?

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, I'm OK with proceeding that way as long as someone doesn't have an ability to clear me tonight.

If there is a seer in the game I would ask that they scan me tonight. Then maybe tomorrow becomes interesting again.

[Swaggs]

How long until someone suggests that Fouts was made to say that hoops intended to kill him?

[saldana]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

There is no feigned shock coming here. I'm a dead man tomorrow. Good luck the rest of the way; we are going to be behind the eight ball with three dead already and me being the only role reveal for beyond the grave.

how can you even pretend at this point....what possible explanation can you have for the fact that fouts was an Orzhov, and not a member of the Gruul like you said he was, and that is his reason for "lying" to kill you.

[hoopsguy]

I moved Alans vote. That was a by-product of him being a true believer. I would not be able to do that with someone who does not believe in the Orzhov cause as completely as Alan does.

I didn't want to use it, because it would be a show of bad faith. But I wasn't going to be thrown away on a 50/50 play either when I'm innocent.

Anyways, I don't expect tomorrow's vote would be close enough to matter on this front, even if I was lucky enough to find another believer tonight.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Okay:

Saldana - What is up with you? Schizophrenic?
Chief Rum - What do you have to do tonight, are you an assasin? If so, I would certainly hold off on using any one-off ability until later in the game when we have more info.
AlanT - How did you manage to change your vote?

Do you think after going 2 days of saying kill hoops that last minute I would change my vote?

Hoops forced me to change my vote.

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, I never said that Fouts was a Gruul. I said that I have the ability to detect them. My scan on Fouts was interrupted by Swaggs so I never got a result on it.

But the 1-2 combo of being silenced and then Fouts strongly insinuating that I tried to kill him led me to believe he was not Orzhov.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Okay:

Saldana - What is up with you? Schizophrenic?
Chief Rum - What do you have to do tonight, are you an assasin? If so, I would certainly hold off on using any one-off ability until later in the game when we have more info.
AlanT - How did you manage to change your vote?

what are you talking about?

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Saldana, I'm OK with proceeding that way as long as someone doesn't have an ability to clear me tonight.

If there is a seer in the game I would ask that they scan me tonight. Then maybe tomorrow becomes interesting again.

I don't know that the seer should waste the scan.

[path12]

Originally Posted by saldana

what are you talking about?

I swear, I AM gonna kill you the longer this keeps up.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Do you think after going 2 days of saying kill hoops that last minute I would change my vote?

Hoops forced me to change my vote.

But is it for the reason he said? Is that how he made you change your vote? Or did he cast a spell (one that Dimir might be able to cast as well) to compel your vote?

[hoopsguy]

Path, the seer should if they want to have a chance of not killing another Orzhov tomorrow.

We are in a small game here with just 14 players. The ratio is now 8-3-1 (best case) right now and is likely to shrink further with night actions. A unanimous vote on me tomorrow will leave the Orzhov with Day 4 being a Day 1.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by saldana

what are you talking about?

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the other one.

[KWhit]

I'm really frustrated that the vote went to Fouts. It seemed obvious to me that he wouldn't put his neck on the line in a lie like that to try to frame Hoops.

After we lynch Hoops tomorrow, we need to take a close look at the people who voted for Fouts.

[hoopsguy]

Chief Rum - I answered the question on Alan's vote in Post #522.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Chief Rum - What do you have to do tonight, are you an assasin? If so, I would certainly hold off on using any one-off ability until later in the game when we have more info.

I do not wish to role reveal at the moment, but I have the ability to change things tonight.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

But is it for the reason he said? Is that how he made you change your vote? Or did he cast a spell (one that Dimir might be able to cast as well) to compel your vote?

I was told he used his day time role of head of religion on me since I was a true believer. Thats why I guess he looked at me last night. to find out if he could force my vote when he needed. Now it makes more sense

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I moved Alans vote. That was a by-product of him being a true believer. I would not be able to do that with someone who does not believe in the Orzhov cause as completely as Alan does.

I didn't want to use it, because it would be a show of bad faith. But I wasn't going to be thrown away on a 50/50 play either when I'm innocent.

Anyways, I don't expect tomorrow's vote would be close enough to matter on this front, even if I was lucky enough to find another believer tonight.

So you're saying that you did have time to finish your action with Alan, but didn't have time to finish your scan of Fouts.

After this, I don't buy it.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Chief Rum - I answered the question on Alan's vote in Post #522.

Yes, I read it. I want to hear if that is ALan's account as well (for the how; I know there is no question you forced him to change his vote).

[saldana]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Saldana, I never said that Fouts was a Gruul. I said that I have the ability to detect them. My scan on Fouts was interrupted by Swaggs so I never got a result on it.

But the 1-2 combo of being silenced and then Fouts strongly insinuating that I tried to kill him led me to believe he was not Orzhov.

OK, just so i have this straight:

1. you are the only one that has any knowledge of the 3rd faction, the Gruul, who are a bloodthirsty, violent guild, not likely to use subterfuge and treachery, but instead just gut us all and eat our entrails. (btw, a simple google search on Orhzhov Guild gives quite a bit of information about the Gruul on the very first link)

2. you openly admitted that you could be a detriment to us because they may be able to manipulate you later on

3. despite #2, you changed someone elses vote in an effort to save your own ass without knowing what his role could have been...for all you know, you just made us kill the seer.

all of these things added together have an odor to them....from where i am sitting, you are doing what you do best, setting out just enough misinformation and doubt to keep the light off of you.

[st.cronin]

By the way, apparently my vote did NOT count twice this time. I have apparently lost some of my political prowess. I've no idea if it will count twice from here on out ...

Circle of trust: Swaggs, AlanT

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I was told he used his day time role of head of religion on me since I was a true believer. Thats why I guess he looked at me last night. to find out if he could force my vote when he needed. Now it makes more sense

Interesting. So is this ability inherent to the role, and not necessarily a function of faith? Meaning hoopsguy could be Dimir, but because he has finagled his way to the top religious role, he gains this power over a true believer, despite himself not being one?

Or is it final confirmation that hoopsguy is a devout Orzhov?

[Swaggs]

I hope someone can protect me tonight.

[st.cronin]

What is the deal with the "true believers" anyway. I don't understand what that's all about.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What is the deal with the "true believers" anyway. I don't understand what that's all about.

If you're not one, you wouldn't understand.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Interesting. So is this ability inherent to the role, and not necessarily a function of faith? Meaning hoopsguy could be Dimir, but because he has finagled his way to the top religious role, he gains this power over a true believer, despite himself not being one?

Or is it final confirmation that hoopsguy is a devout Orzhov?

my understanding is its his role. not his belief

[saldana]

more on the gruul. in post #2, Anxiety says he is using the Guildpact expansion as a background for this game....a google search of Guildpact gives the first result that takes you directly to the Wizards of the Coast site. one more click later on a link for a description of the Guilds in the game leads to this:

Guildpact Guilds: The Gruul
Not that the Gruul would take the time (or learn the words) to explain this, but they feel civilization is a mockery, an elaborate cage that suppresses desire and makes the weak seem powerful. The Gruul live moment by moment, and they “encourage” others to do the same. Once a strong guild, the Gruul are now merely a loose assemblage of beggars, gangs, and raiding parties. The largest of the gangs has the largest leader: Borborygmos, a huge cyclops known for smashing dissent (among other things). Gruul gangs survive by pillaging and burning neighborhoods, then squatting on the rubble and ashes, living off what they find. When the resources run dry, it’s time for another raid


does that sound like anything that would want to control a religious leader....my apologies to fouts for being too busy to have gotten this posted sooner...i did say they were barbaric, but aparently everyone is too obsessed with killing me to pay attention to what i have to say.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What is the deal with the "true believers" anyway. I don't understand what that's all about.

Its a fancy way of saying that you cant bribe me or convert me. I have a different ability that protects me at nights.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Its a fancy way of saying that you cant bribe me or convert me. I have a different ability that protects me at nights.

So it's not about a game within a game, where the true believers are battling the atheists for some secondary prize?

[Swaggs]

I also find the Gruul stuff to be more than a little hard to believe.

It sounds as if they would be bloodthirsty and into killing and destruction, yet we had no kills last night and no one came forward with any information indicating that they had blocked an attack or survived an attack. Other than Fouts, of course.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

my understanding is its his role. not his belief

So does it then reason that he could still be a Dimir and yet compel the actions of the truly devout?

[Swaggs]

st. cronin, I'm curious in that you changed your vote without making much of a mention as to why. I found that suspicous at the time and am wondering what made you switch.

[hoopsguy]

Saldana:
1.) I'm sure there is at least one other person in the game with knowledge of the Gruul - their agent.
2.) Yes
3.) I wouldn't have tried to save myself against a random player - I tried to save myself from a player who was actively seeking my death. I considered it unlikely that this person would be an Orzhov, so I never really got to the point of considering what Orzhov role Fouts might hold

I would like people to subscribe to Rum's theory about this being proof I'm Orzhov, but I wouldn't buy it if I heard someone else use this argument. I'm guessing only a seer scan could save me, and I'm not really sure it is worth the risk/reward in terms of them revealing to save me. Selfishly, I would like it but it probably doesn't make sense in the big picture.