Werewolf XXXVIII: Jack The Ripper (GAME OVER! GOOD WINS ON DAY SEVEN)

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

He made no mention of time in the PM, or about Barkeep actions or intentions. Only that he was there.

He did say the WW entered the district, implying somebody left another district to go to commercial and kill tyrith. He never said barkeep came or left, or that he was there the whole time. Only that barkeep was the only other person in commercial.

Wouldn't this clear me then? If the WW entered the district and I was there the whole time how could I have been the bad guy?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Its taking me alot of time to respond to stuff, so sorry if I'm really delayed. I start writing a post, then get sidetracked with work stuff for 10-30 min then come back to finish it. Was going to say your story makes alot of sense to me.. to follow up on what I said earlier.. path hinted at a day ability, and I said in response that I tried mine.. then later find out it failed. Just to go a little further without giving too much away, the day ability I have also involves using urchins.. however if they are preoccupied by someone who gives them alot of money (more than I give), then they can't carry through with my task. It sounds like you were the one that trumped my day time order and thus didn't allow mine to go through.

I already said im sorry lol...your action wont be blocked by me again until day 6. So have fun until then. But yes, im glad you can add credibility to my claims, even if not the facts i present.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Wouldn't this clear me then? If the WW entered the district and I was there the whole time how could I have been the bad guy?

It didnt say you were there the whole time, just that you were there. It didnt say if you came and went or stayed the night...it only said that you were the only other player in commerical last night, which can mean you came in for the murder, came in for other reasons, or was there all along.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Sorry, i had to place an offer of 10 shillings for my action to be successful. Tomorrow you may feel free to offer again, as i wont be able to

No complaints as your information seemed to turn up something better than I could ever have done. I guess my main question is probably something I didn't fully grasp since I just skimmed through fast as I got chances here..

You are saying your urchin knew 100% that the only people in commercial district was Tyrith and Barkeep (and the urchin)? THe urchin didn't necessarily see the kill, but saw only those two in the district?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Blade -- I think you have bad info. I can tell you, with 100% certainty, that there was someone else in commercial district last night.

I am not a werewolf or any other kind of bad man.

My PM said there was only one other player in the area, you. So either area implies just the death scene and not the whole district(if so, makes you look worse) or your lying.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, who do you think was in the district yesterday along with you?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

No complaints as your information seemed to turn up something better than I could ever have done. I guess my main question is probably something I didn't fully grasp since I just skimmed through fast as I got chances here..

You are saying your urchin knew 100% that the only people in commercial district was Tyrith and Barkeep (and the urchin)? THe urchin didn't necessarily see the kill, but saw only those two in the district?

He did not see the kill, but saw the WW break into tyriths home...he was too afriad to go in and watch the WW feed, but he heared it and it was gruesome. He then told me(all in a note) that the only other player he saw was barkeep. He made no mention of seeing the wolf leave, so i assumed barkeep was the WW and turned back into his normal self before leaving.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Barkeep, who do you think was in the district yesterday along with you?

yesterday being night 1 correct?

[Blade6119]

To clarify, it said there was only one other person in the area, and that was my BK himself. It was faily clear on that last point.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

He did not see the kill, but saw the WW break into tyriths home...he was too afriad to go in and watch the WW feed, but he heared it and it was gruesome. He then told me(all in a note) that the only other player he saw was barkeep. He made no mention of seeing the wolf leave, so i assumed barkeep was the WW and turned back into his normal self before leaving.

bolded part mine

if he was the only other person in the area then wouldn't that clear BK as it was the urchin, BK and the WW as the "other" person.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

bolded part mine

if he was the only other person in the area then wouldn't that clear BK as it was the urchin, BK and the WW as the "other" person.

I take other to mean besides tyrith since he never named the WW. Besides, the WW would revert back to normal form after making the kill as to not be seen.

He named two player, tyrith and barkeep...so other to me means barkeep was the only player other then the now mauled to death tyrith in Commercial.

[Blade6119]

VOTE BARKEEp

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

He did not see the kill, but saw the WW break into tyriths home...he was too afriad to go in and watch the WW feed, but he heared it and it was gruesome. He then told me(all in a note) that the only other player he saw was barkeep. He made no mention of seeing the wolf leave, so i assumed barkeep was the WW and turned back into his normal self before leaving.

That seems plausible, Blade. However if the urchin was scared by the werewolf (Legitamitely ), it seems possible that he was afraid to stay. and reported who was there at the time of the attack.. If this is the case, it does the opposite of implicating Barkeep....it actually exonerates him.

[Blade6119]

damnit

VOTE BARKEEP

[hoopsguy]

Yes, yesterday being Night 1.

Blade, I'm interested in hearing what kind of defense Barkeep can mount and if others are willing to vouch for him. This is not to dispute your version of events - just trying to get as complete a version of last night as possible.

I think bad guys are going to have to be pretty cautious with their lies this game, especially early on, with the amount of night information being collected.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I take other to mean besides tyrith since he never named the WW. Besides, the WW would revert back to normal form after making the kill as to not be seen.

He named two player, tyrith and barkeep...so other to me means barkeep was the only player other then the now mauled to death tyrith in Commercial.

could the urchin also be the WW? I need to recheck the rules on this

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

could the urchin also be the WW? I need to recheck the rules on this

The urchin i paid was not a player in this game i didnt believe. Its possible he is, but i dont think so. Maybe alan can share his thoughts, but my initial PM made it sound like it was just a way for the ability to work

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Yes, yesterday being Night 1.

Blade, I'm interested in hearing what kind of defense Barkeep can mount and if others are willing to vouch for him. This is not to dispute your version of events - just trying to get as complete a version of last night as possible.

I think bad guys are going to have to be pretty cautious with their lies this game, especially early on, with the amount of night information being collected.

I wasnt sure about barkeep being bad from my PM, but then he made a comment about the WW killing tyrith and now is claiming there was another person in commercial, when my PM says the only person in the area was barkeep.

If he can mount a plausible defense, ok...im not 100% sure on him, but its the best ive got so far

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Barkeep, who do you think was in the district yesterday along with you?

My john. I am a prostitute and learned last night that my john is an innocent. I believe my john on the first night learned the same, though I did not learn that from him.

I'm unsure if I will be in again the rest of the day in a few minutes. I'm guessing I will find myself dead by the end of the day.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

My john. I am a prostitute and learned last night that my john is an innocent. I believe my john on the first night learned the same, though I did not learn that from him.

I'm unsure if I will be in again the rest of the day in a few minutes. I'm guessing I will find myself dead by the end of the day.

So you didnt see or hear anything outside of your john last night? Thats all you did?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

The urchin i paid was not a player in this game i didnt believe. Its possible he is, but i dont think so. Maybe alan can share his thoughts, but my initial PM made it sound like it was just a way for the ability to work

My initial take was the urchins were out of game resources to facilitate a story. However Jonathan ended up an urchin, and Schmidty hinted to being an urchin (at least seemed like that to me) last night.

Right now I find Blade's story credible as best he understands it. I guess the question in my mind is how credible the urchins themselves are. I dont feel that Blade is lying as he would have to make alot of guesses and be hitting them pretty directly here.

I think the best thing at this point is Barkeep needs to say why he was there, and name who else was there that he knew 100% was there, and if that person can or can not vouch either for barkeep or for also being in the district at least.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

My john. I am a prostitute and learned last night that my john is an innocent. I believe my john on the first night learned the same, though I did not learn that from him.

I'm unsure if I will be in again the rest of the day in a few minutes. I'm guessing I will find myself dead by the end of the day.

Well if you have had 2 different people that are good guys visit you this game (one night 0, one last night), then thats 2 people who should be able to vouch for you, including one vouching for your wherabouts last night. So your story is just fine with me as long as you get others who will vouch for you.

If no one vouches for you, then it seems like a logical lynch vote today.

[hoopsguy]

I strongly believe that Barkeep is telling the truth about being a prostitute - but if he "scored" last night and that prevents other actions (night kill) for both parties that would imply there were three people in the district.

I'm also not 100% certain that someone cannot be both prostitute and werewolf. I'll send that question to Chief Rum in an e-mail.

This is why I was curious about Barkeep's defense. If someone was his "john" I don't really see a downside for them coming out at this point.

Barkeep, did you learn anything about Tyrith's death while you were in that district last night?

[Barkeep49]

I'm going to vote for the only other person with votes

Vote Daddy Torrango

Gotta save myself.

[Blade6119]

Why dont you tell us who you were with both nights, so they can either clear you or damn you. I dont see much of a downside in clearing you, and possibly 2 others

[Barkeep49]

I hid in mortal fear over the commotion. I hope my john is around today to verify me then.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Why dont you tell us who you were with both nights, so they can either clear you or damn you. I dont see much of a downside in clearing you, and possibly 2 others

Seems to me there's more credibility if I don't say.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well if you have had 2 different people that are good guys visit you this game (one night 0, one last night), then thats 2 people who should be able to vouch for you, including one vouching for your wherabouts last night. So your story is just fine with me as long as you get others who will vouch for you.

If no one vouches for you, then it seems like a logical lynch vote today.

actually Barkeep did not know there were 2 good guys as his johns. remember he did not say his first night's customer was innocent. He couldn't tell

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Seems to me there's more credibility if I don't say.

Id actually like you to...this way, two bad guys can say oh, i was with barkeep last night..if you name two names, its cut and dry. If you dont, any two players in the game can step up. Maybe im wrong, but i doubt with all the kills their is a bad guy side of 3 or more people. So you naming two would be a solid option to me

[Blade6119]

Ive given yall all the information i have..i will try to get better results on night 6 when i get to have him follow one person. Have a good morning yall, im head off to classes

[Alan T]

I agree with Blade. I went back and looked through all of Barkeep's posts to try to get a feel for a validity of his statement. I found some negatives and positives.

One weird thing for me was that Blade was after barkeep yesterday too before there was this urchin proof, and I hate it when "evidence" lines up convienantly. Sometimes its not as convienant as it seems. I however do not have any reason to doubt Blade's story.. someone did pay the Urchin a whole lot of money last night, 10 shillings would be a believable amount to me. What Blade says the urchin did also is believable to me. So I am not putting much weight to yesterday's coeincidences.

Now on to what Barkeep has talked about.. He has asked many many times this game why would people go to visit the prostitutes. This to me either means he is indeed a prostitute and doesn't understand from his perspective why others would spend money on him. He also wouldn't know what type of person is visiting him (are they good people, are they bad people, can both sides visit?) Or the other possibility in my mind is that he has been setting up a prosititute defense the entire time in case he got snagged and wanted to understand the role as well as possible.

I guess the big thing for me is Barkeep preached on day 1 that more information is better for the village. Its time to live up to your words Barkeep. I think you should tell us what you know, who visitied you, where did they visit you. You said someone visited you night 0 and last night. that is two independant factors that can be vefiried and possibly leave an additional trail of secondary verification of people who witnessed those in this line of thinking.

I guess I don't have a feel one way or another if one can be a prostitute + a bad guy. I'm assuming JtR isnt a prostitute, but I don't know about the other roles.

Would it help us any to also put together a list of people who wern't in Tyrith's area last night who we know couldn't have killed him? Mr.W had a good list to start with. I'm sure others might be able to have confirmation of not being in the area.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

My PM said there was only one other player in the area, you. So either area implies just the death scene and not the whole district(if so, makes you look worse) or your lying.

i find it hard to believe there were only 2 people in a district last night.
there are what 20+ peeps and 4 or 5 districts (i cant remeber). i doubt your urchin is 100% accurate.

[path12]

I will vouch for Barkeep but do not want to give any details other than that.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

I will vouch for Barkeep but do not want to give any details other than that.

Without giving more information on your actions, can you at least verify which part you are vouching to? That you also were in Commercial Rd. District last night and the urchin wasn't correct, or that barkeep is a prostitute and you found that out night 0 (not last night). Its important to know which part.

[Alan T]

My last post for a while (maybe 2-3 hours). I find it very disapointing that Barkeep chose to leave without presenting a viable defense.

I've tried to start a map of last night to have an idea of who was where, so we can at least rule out who might not have been who's murderers.

We have the following vouches so far:
Bulletsponge + 2 others he says, but does not state what area
Mr.W states he saw Blade, ntn, St.cronin - whitechapel Rd
Hoops + 4 who he saw leaving cavell but we do not know if they can vouch for him. (as it could be night 0 info he is using based on people's living locations)
Alan - Whitechapel Rd.
Barkeep + 1 other he says who visited him last night. - Commercial Rd.

So this makes my map so far like this:

Bishopsgate:


Whitechapel Rd: (Fouts & BrianD dead)
15. MrWednesday (unverified)
18. AlanT (unverified)
4. Blade6119
13. st. cronin
23. ntndeacon


Commercial Rd: (Tyrith dead)
1. Barkeep49

Cavell:
19. hoopsguy (unverified)


Unknown area:
5. bulletsponge (unverified)


No info:
2. DaddyTorgo
3. Schmidty
7. saldana
8. Lathum
12. path12
14. LoneStarGirl
16. SnDvls
17. dubb93
20. Dodgerchick
21. Raiders Army
22. Swaggs
24. Izulde

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Without giving more information on your actions, can you at least verify which part you are vouching to? That you also were in Commercial Rd. District last night and the urchin wasn't correct, or that barkeep is a prostitute and you found that out night 0 (not last night). Its important to know which part.

Barkeep is a prostitute.

[Izulde]

I know who at least one of the prostitutes are and Barkeep isn't it. Also, if we lynch Barkeep, then we have a strong indication as to if Barkeep is bad or good. Blade's evidence suggests there's a possibility that Barkeep's bad, so I'm willing to go that route to clear path or damn path, depending on the Barkeep lynch result.

VOTE BARKEEP

[Mr. Wednesday]

I live in Cavell St., so hoops may have seen me.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

So people go to the opium den in the hopes of gaining information. Why do people go to prostitutes? Are there any other vices lurking around? Gambling perhaps?

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

holy crap 3 dead!



so you can find out who, a prostitute is. for a circle of trust to form

You do not visit an opium den to find prostitutes.

[hoopsguy]

The information I'm looking for is someone to vouch that they were with BK last night. That would give more credence to him not being able to commit a murder as a werewolf - I think it is less likely (not impossible) that he could complete multiple actions.

Of course, Chief coming in to say that it is not possible to be both a prostitute and werewolf would clear this up as well.

Alan, if we are able to establish a good reason to reveal where people live I'm happy to reveal the information I know about people leaving Cavell last night.

For what it is worth, Tyrith was from Commercial. So he was killed in his home area - don't know if that helps in terms of learning the order actions are processed as he potentially could have stayed in his district last night.

[bulletsponge]

ok i guess its time to save Barkeep. i was the John who visited Barkeep last night for some "matress rodeo". i learned he is good. i also learned who his john from the previous night was and that he too is good

[Lorena]

I was a little disappointed with my night action; I was hoping on a bigger circle of trust but the person I visited in Bishopsgate has already been cleared. Bummer.

I was also robbed... bastages. One thing I found out was that Mr. W was passing through Bishopsgate last night.

[bulletsponge]

dola

i met Barkeep in the commercial district

[bulletsponge]

so the fact that i too was in comercial dist means Blades urchin didnt see everything or that Blade is full of it. im pretty sure you never get 100% of the info, but i also dont trust blade

[Lorena]

I do trust Blade because some of the stuff he said corresponds with what I know to be true. Right now, bullet defending Barkeep seems really odd... 2 people whom I don't trust fully right now.

[saldana]

for the record, I didnt leave my house last night...i was trying to save my shillings to bribe an urchin with last night....the night before, i was in the bishopgate area looking for hookers, but didnt find any.

if bullet is to be believed (no reason not too), Blade's info is incomplete at best, and a fabrication at worse, and since both path and bullet are vouching for Barkeep's being a lady of the night, i am going to hold off on voting for anyone right now

[Lorena]

Oh yeah and dang Blade, you spend 10 schilling to hire an urchin? I was thinking of offering a lot less than that.

[saldana]

dola, i stayed home yesterday because my attempt from day 1 to get an urchin was turned down, i assume by blade's use of the action.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I know who at least one of the prostitutes are and Barkeep isn't it. Also, if we lynch Barkeep, then we have a strong indication as to if Barkeep is bad or good. Blade's evidence suggests there's a possibility that Barkeep's bad, so I'm willing to go that route to clear path or damn path, depending on the Barkeep lynch result.

VOTE BARKEEP

barking up the wrong tree here Izulde

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Oh yeah and dang Blade, you spend 10 schilling to hire an urchin? I was thinking of offering a lot less than that.

i did offer less...damn little capitalist bastards....