Werewolf XXI - Werewolf goes to Hollywood - Game Over!! Death Eaters win!!

[st.cronin]

Yeah, I actually like ardent as a wizard - just a hunch.

Dubb and lathum jumped out at me, as well, as did Coffee. All three I consider somewhat suspicious at this point.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I like St. Cronins argument but I also like players who are active. Until we here more from him

Vote Superman54

For now I've got to agree with this...

Vote Superman

[st.cronin]

I don't think Superman even voted, which would be strange if he were a death-eater.

[SnDvls]

Now it looks like I started a band wagon...I'd love to jump off now that he's here, but it looks like in order to have some self preservation I need to stick on him.

[SnDvls]

dola -
Superman say something so I can move my vote from you....even if it gets me lynched.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by saldana

Votes from Day 1
Ardent (2) - by coffee warlord, schmidty
Blade (1)- by jeeber
desnudo (1)- by grammaticus
coder (1)- by RA
RA (1)- by coder
Kwhit (1)- by king
Jeeber - (1)by dacman
superman (2)- by barkeep, blade
neon chaos (2)- qwikshot,ardent
jesse ewiak (1)- by path12
Qwikshot - (12)by neon, rpi-fan, cronin, taz, alant, mr. w, kwhit, lathum, sndvls, jesse, dubb, desnudo

no votes: pass, wvufan, superman

Pass, wvufan and superman all didnt vote on day 1

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

In Ardent's case, it seemed like self-preservation to me, which good or bad probably was a good reason. He was tied and didn't want to put his fate at the risk of a tiebreaker. So that move does not jump out at me really badly.

The two that jumped out strongest to me in the bunch was Dubb who started the initial bandwagon for Neon with the second vote for him (but then later bailed when others started voting for him), and Lathum who voted for Neon because someone else switched off of him.
Right now without a whole lot more to go on, I feel pretty ok with St.Cronin if Neon is vouching for him, so that clears 2/24 players. I'm not voting yet, going to wait for more discussion and see what happens, but right now I'm just basing my possible vote on how people behaved.

actualy that wasn't my reason for Neon. My vote for Neon was totaly random and I switched once he revealed his role early on.

The comment about being suspiscous of bandwagoners switching votes was completly seperate from my vote.

[Superman=#54]

A vote on me would be wasted let the DE attack me first before I die...

[Superman=#54]

I'm not going to bandwagon on SnDvls, there is no reason to. I save a vote for later. Continue to badwagon on me, and lose an ally.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Superman=#54

A vote on me would be wasted let the DE attack me first before I die...

interesting...

[Neon_Chaos]

As a side note, I believe that Blade6119 was a Defense Against The Dark Arts teacher.

You find books of defensive spells and reference manuals with information of how to do battle against various beasts and forms of magic.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Superman=#54

I'm not going to bandwagon on SnDvls, there is no reason to. I save a vote for later. Continue to badwagon on me, and lose an ally.

Can you explain why you didn't vote on Day 1? That might help some wizards vote for somebody else.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Superman=#54

I'm not going to bandwagon on SnDvls, there is no reason to. I save a vote for later. Continue to badwagon on me, and lose an ally.

I appriciate that...hopefully this doesn't get me lynched today by doing this.

UNVOTE SUPERMAN

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

As a side note, I believe that Blade6119 was a Defense Against The Dark Arts teacher.

Like that guy from the movie with the funny Eye?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

As a side note, I believe that Blade6119 was Defense Against The Dark Arts

.....

[Superman=#54]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Can you explain why you didn't vote on Day 1? That might help some wizards vote for somebody else.

I wasn't able to keep up with all the posts, and by the time the deadline came I could not make an informed desicion. This time I will vote, because I am all caught up.

[dubb93]

Why should we believe you Superman? And why are you making out like you want to be attacked by the death eaters? You have some answering to do after not even checking in yesterday.

[dacman]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Why should we believe you Superman? And why are you making out like you want to be attacked by the death eaters? You have some answering to do after not even checking in yesterday.

No kidding, I didn't like that answer either.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Like that guy from the movie with the funny Eye?

Which explains why he died! After all, the DADA teacher never lasts more than a single year...

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Coder

what doesn't make sense about coffee's argument?

Reading his post once again, I might have been reading it wrong the first time.

However, the way I read it was that he made Neon out to be evil (?).

"After Neon fingered Qwik, and eventually was proven to be evil"

Reading it again I'm sure he means that Qwik was evil...

However, he also seems to be diverting votes away from himself and his own action.. he was also very quick to get the voting going without mentioning his own name.. further more, he "had to" post how all he had was a wizard hat and a wizard's robe!? Bla bla ;-)

To be honest, I don't see what the "band wagon" jumpers did that was wrong.. I would have done the same had I not been asleep when Neon revealed Qwik. Why NOT vote out the most obvious choice? That's one less deatheater for the night instead of spreading the uncertainty and possibly kill an innocent wizard..

My vote stands.. Coffee is too anxious to prove other people's actions wrong rather than defend his own.. ;-)

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Yeah, I actually like ardent as a wizard - just a hunch.

Dubb and lathum jumped out at me, as well, as did Coffee. All three I consider somewhat suspicious at this point.

It is standard first day fare. My 1st vote for Neon was a joke. If you would have been around long enough you would realize he has DM'ed about 70% of these games. That is why I said I always wanted to do that and included a smiley. When I voted for him I glanced over the 1st vote that was put on him.

Qwik came in and tried to start a bandwagon against an innocent player. I wasn't willing to give up Neon, who I figured would know more about werewolf than anyone else. Afterall, he has DM'ed all those games and has seen how people on both sides act. That is when I moved my vote off of him. I went out for my anniversary, came back and saw Neon's reveal. Knowing he is a good player I believed him and voted with him. Would you rather me have left my vote on an unknown?

[Alan T]

I don't have any problems with people who jumped to vote for Qwik either on day 1. It seemed to be the best move to make. If Qwik was on our side, we would have gone after Neon on day 2. Getting a bad guy on one of two days is a decent start.

[kingfc22]

VOTE SNDVLS

This might change, but like I posted earlier I think there is a good chance that one or two DE's jumped on the bandwagon yesterday.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

VOTE SNDVLS

This might change, but like I posted earlier I think there is a good chance that one or two DE's jumped on the bandwagon yesterday.

well looks like even if I go back to Superman to try and perserve myself I'm doomed anyhow...thanks guys. I'm not going to jump back on Superman though and hopefully someone will wise up and see I did what a list of 6 other people did.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Coder

To be honest, I don't see what the "band wagon" jumpers did that was wrong.. I would have done the same had I not been asleep when Neon revealed Qwik. Why NOT vote out the most obvious choice? That's one less deatheater for the night instead of spreading the uncertainty and possibly kill an innocent wizard..

A large portion of trying to dig out the evil-doers is by looking at voting records. When an easy opportunity to hide your vote comes around, it's a standard-issue wolf tactic to do so. BECAUSE many people hopped the bandwagon to whack Qwik, that's a day of voting history that becomes even more obfuscated. Which benefits the wolves.

[Coffee Warlord]

Dola. I'm certainly not saying it was WRONG to whack Qwik. I'm merely saying that the people who hopped the bandwagon are worthy of suspicion in my book.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

A large portion of trying to dig out the evil-doers is by looking at voting records. When an easy opportunity to hide your vote comes around, it's a standard-issue wolf tactic to do so. BECAUSE many people hopped the bandwagon to whack Qwik, that's a day of voting history that becomes even more obfuscated. Which benefits the wolves.

I'm willing to give you that. But if you are looking at me you are looking at the wrong guy. Stand fare is usually 1 wolf votes for the wolf, the rest spread them out. I atleast has a reason and explanation for my vote, and the lateness of it. I'd look at some of the people who didn't.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Dola. I'm certainly not saying it was WRONG to whack Qwik. I'm merely saying that the people who hopped the bandwagon are worthy of suspicion in my book.

I do agree with this train of thought to an extent, with one caveat - when the bandwagon is as quick as yesterday's was, the death-eaters don't neccesarily have time to get their strategy in order.

That being said, the last people to vote Qwik were

Desnudo
Dubb
Jesse
SnDvls
Lathum
Kwhit

For some reason I have Kwhit's name circled in my notes, but I forget why.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

A large portion of trying to dig out the evil-doers is by looking at voting records. When an easy opportunity to hide your vote comes around, it's a standard-issue wolf tactic to do so. BECAUSE many people hopped the bandwagon to whack Qwik, that's a day of voting history that becomes even more obfuscated. Which benefits the wolves.

At what point do you consider voting for him hopping on the bandwagon?

When Neon revealed his role and his info about Qwik, it was:
Superman 5
Neon 4
Ardent 2
Qwikshot (and others) 1

Obviously, you needed 4 others to join in to even tie Superman (unless people jumped off him). Im having a problem seeing where you draw the line between people feeling that was the best choice for the villagers to lynch Qwik and hurrying to make it so, vs people piling on to hide in the vote. I understand what you are saying about them wanting to hide in the masses, I just do not know how you pull people out of yesterday's vote on Qwik. It happened so quickly.

It seems to me something a bit easier to watch when it happens over the course of a few hours instead.

[dacman]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

well looks like even if I go back to Superman to try and perserve myself I'm doomed anyhow...thanks guys. I'm not going to jump back on Superman though and hopefully someone will wise up and see I did what a list of 6 other people did.

I didn't vote for you for piling on Qwik so much as I voted for you because you went after Blade. Might not mean anything, but it's about all we got right now.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by dacman

I didn't vote for you for piling on Qwik so much as I voted for you because you went after Blade. Might not mean anything, but it's about all we got right now.

if you look at my reason for going after blade you'd understand. It's also a commen setup for the wolves/demons/death eaters ect to set up someone who voted for the person you kill. If lynching an active person gets the game along I guess it happens.

[Coffee Warlord]

We all know day 1 votes are crapshoots, and pretty much any *shred* of a good reason to lynch someone is jumped on. Neon comes out against Qwik with a bit more than a shred of reason, at which point it's almost a foregone conclusion Qwik is screwed. Any other day it might have been questionable, but on day 1, it's a HELLUVA lot better than the Random Number Generator, the Vote Schmidty Rule, the Die AE Die Rule, or any of the others.

So simply because this WAS A day 1 vote, I consider most anyone after the first couple to be a "bandwagon" vote.

My take anyway.

[Coffee Warlord]

That said.

unvote dubb93

I like his responses.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

if you look at my reason for going after blade you'd understand. It's also a commen setup for the wolves/demons/death eaters ect to set up someone who voted for the person you kill. If lynching an active person gets the game along I guess it happens.

I don't understand, how are you being set up?

[dacman]

The timeline:

8:22pm - Neon reveal
8:25pm - RPI-Fan votes Qwik
8:30pm - st.cronin changes from Neon to Qwik
8:34pm - TazFTW changes from Superman to Qwik Qwik and Superman tied at 4
8:44pm - Alan T changes from st.cronin to Qwik Qwik takes lead
8:47pm - Mr. Wednesday changes from dubb to Qwik
8:50pm - KWhit changes from Superman to Qwik
8:53pm - Lathum changes from Neon to Qwik
9:09pm - SnDvls votes Qwik (unvoted Blade at 9:03pm)
9:27pm - Jesse_Ewiak changes from path12 to Qwik
9:28pm - dubb93 changes from Mr. W to Qwik
9:28pm - desnudo changes from Gram to Qwik

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

BECAUSE many people hopped the bandwagon to whack Qwik, that's a day of voting history that becomes even more obfuscated.

Coffee must not be a death-eater. They don't use big words like obfuscate, much less put them in past tense.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I don't understand, how are you being set up?

not by you directly, but by the wolves and by chance. You look at who voted for who was killed last night (happens that I did vote blade and unvoted him) The wolves kill him and the finger goes to someone who voted for him or in this case barkeep too. Then because I switched along with many other people I'm the unlucky one. It's too early for me to say my role, I'm holding out hope that you will realize the error in your vote.

[dacman]

Eschew obfuscation (pun intended).

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by dacman

The timeline:

8:22pm - Neon reveal
8:25pm - RPI-Fan votes Qwik
8:30pm - st.cronin changes from Neon to Qwik
8:34pm - TazFTW changes from Superman to Qwik
8:44pm - Alan T changes from st.cronin to Qwik
8:47pm - Mr. Wednesday changes from dubb to Qwik Qwik takes lead?
8:50pm - KWhit changes from Superman to Qwik
8:53pm - Lathum changes from Neon to Qwik
9:09pm - SnDvls votes Qwik (unvoted Blade at 9:03pm)
9:27pm - Jesse_Ewiak changes from path12 to Qwik
9:28pm - dubb93 changes from Mr. W to Qwik
9:28pm - desnudo changes from Gram to Qwik

actually when Taz changed (according to BK's list) is when Superman lost the lead and Qwik took it.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dacman

The timeline:

8:22pm - Neon reveal
8:25pm - RPI-Fan votes Qwik
8:30pm - st.cronin changes from Neon to Qwik
8:34pm - TazFTW changes from Superman to Qwik
8:44pm - Alan T changes from st.cronin to Qwik
8:47pm - Mr. Wednesday changes from dubb to Qwik Qwik takes lead?
8:50pm - KWhit changes from Superman to Qwik
8:53pm - Lathum changes from Neon to Qwik
9:09pm - SnDvls votes Qwik (unvoted Blade at 9:03pm)
9:27pm - Jesse_Ewiak changes from path12 to Qwik
9:28pm - dubb93 changes from Mr. W to Qwik
9:28pm - desnudo changes from Gram to Qwik

all this does is prove the point about how quick the bandwagon got started. If you were offline for that hour you would never have known it happened.

I agree with coffee, day one is always a crap shoot.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

if you look at my reason for going after blade you'd understand. It's also a commen setup for the wolves/demons/death eaters ect to set up someone who voted for the person you kill. If lynching an active person gets the game along I guess it happens.

Originally Posted by SnDvls

vote Blade

he's due at least one from me for last game. it's a say 1 crap shoot buddy

I'm not a fan of this defense.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

not by you directly, but by the wolves and by chance. You look at who voted for who was killed last night (happens that I did vote blade and unvoted him) The wolves kill him and the finger goes to someone who voted for him or in this case barkeep too. Then because I switched along with many other people I'm the unlucky one. It's too early for me to say my role, I'm holding out hope that you will realize the error in your vote.

On the other hand, wolves don't properly utilize who and whom. As bolded above.






These posts were just kidding, BTW. I'm not sure who to go for at this point. I'm pretty sure that at least one of the late people on the Qwik boat are evil.

[dacman]

sorry about that -- timeline edited while SnDvls and Lathum were quoting it.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm not a fan of this defense.

but that is what you are using against me?
because I voted for Blade who was good. Who knew he was good besides him?

[Alan T]

I need to head from work to pick up my car from the shop, so probably will be gone a few hours. Right now in my mind, the people I am most likely to vote for are one of these:
Lathum, Dubb, Coffee Warlord, SnDvls, king and jeeber. I'll hold off for a bit though to see what discussion happens between now and later. Most of my opinions is based solely on one day of voting, which isnt much. Superman's responses to people voting for him made me a little curious as well however. Not the response I would expect from someone who was trying to work as part of the team.

Other food for thought, with everyone focused on Superman primarily because he didnt vote yesterday, not many have mentioned WVUFan or Pass who neither voted yesterday nor showed up so far today in the discussion.

Also I see the subject says deadline is 12pm (which would be noon), Is that supposed to be 12 midnight instead?

See you all in a few hours.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Lathum

all this does is prove the point about how quick the bandwagon got started. If you were offline for that hour you would never have known it happened.

I agree with coffee, day one is always a crap shoot.

And if you got back on before the deadline to see the results and saw the hour old seer reveal and changed your vote it makes you a bad guy. The reveal was good b/c we got a deatheater, but it came so late in the day that it makes it the votes less likely to mean anything. I'm sure Desnudo and Jesse were in the same boat I was, out for the day after saying their peace and then back at the deadline. The reveal came as a shock and we all quickly changed it.

If Neon's reveal came at 4:00, then the case becomes much better against the deadline switchers. Again, I'm not vouching for Desnudo or Jesse, I just know I'm not a death eater, and assume with the late reveal they stumbled into the same situation I did.

[SnDvls]

which of these reasons from day one are you a fan of? payback listed by me or CW? seems sinster by barkeep? random by many? no reason by you (don't twist this as I'm not accusing you either I know you're good as NC cleared you) and others?

26.Neon_Chaos Qwikshot Random Choosing Qwik 1
25.Coffee Warlord Ardent enthusiast Payback for the last game Ardent 1
10.St Cronin Neon Chaos No Reason given Neon 1
2.SnDvls Blade Due from last game Blade 1
3.Barkeep49 Coffee Warlord He's seemed sinister Coffee 1
1.Alan T St. Cronin Voting for the person who voted for the first person to vote St. Cronin 1
6.Ardent Enthusiast Schmidty Obligatory first vote Schmidty 1
14.Raiders Army Coder 13th person to signup Coder 1
4.Path12 Jesse Ewiak Random Vote Jesse 1
5.Mr. Wednesday Dubb Based on silly nonrandom method Dubb 1
18.Dubb93 Neon Chaos Always wanted to do it Neon 2
28.Qwikshot Neon Chaos Self preservation and Neon is wrong Neon 3
15.Schmidty Ardent enthusiast Traditional Ardent 2
16.KWhit Superman Hasn't been around; Doesn't want to join a bandwagon Superman 1
Dubb Neon Chaos Neon 2
Dubb Mr. Wednesday Sees no reason for him to throw vote his way early Mr. Wednesday 1
9.Blade6119 Alan T No Reason given Alan 1
Blade Alan T Alan 0
Blade St. Cronin Voting out of scorn St. Cronin 2
13.Coder Raiders Army Returning the favor Raiders 1
8.Lathum Neon Chaos Suspicous when someone changes vote when bandwagon starts Neon 3
21.Kingfc22 Kwhit Random Choosing Kwhit 1
7.Dacman Jeeber Has been quiet Jeeber 1
27.Jesse_Ewiak Path Return vote Path 1
24.Grammaticus Desnudo Quiet with no vote Desnudo 1
12.Desnudo Grammaticus No Reason given Grammaticus
Blade St. Cronin St. Cronin 1
Blade Ardent enthusiast Trying to force tie Ardent 3
Ardent Schmidty Schmidty 0
Ardent Neon Chaos No Reason given Neon 4
17.TazFTW Superman Some convoluted reason I'm not bothering to type out Superman 2
19.JeeberD Blade Trying to follow tradition according to Godzilla Blitz Blade 2
23.RPI-Fan Superman Trying to get rid of someone who doesn't add anything Superman 3
Barkeep49 Coffee Warlord Coffee 0
Barkeep49 Superman Hasn't checked in Superman 4
Blade Ardent enthusiast Ardent 2
Blade Superman Trying for a tie still Superman 5
Neon reveals that he is Legimilens and has viewed Qwikshot who is a death eater
RPI-Fan Superman Superman 4
RPI-Fan Qwikshot At worse it's 1 for 1 Qwik 2
St. Cronin Neon Chaos Neon 3
St. Cronin Qwikshot No Reason given Qwik 3
Taz Superman Superman 3
Taz Qwikshot No Reason given Qwik 4
Alan St. Cronin St. Cronin 0
Alan Qwikshot Qwik 5
Mr. Wendesday Dubb Dubb 0
Mr. Wendesday Qwikshot Qwik 6
Kwhit Superman Superman 2
KWhit Qwikshot Qwik 7
Lathum Neon Chaos Neon 2
Lathum Qwikshot Qwik 8
SnDvls Blade Blade 1
SnDvls Qwikshot Early role reveals seems like it is true Qwik 9
JesseEwiak Path Path 0
JesseEwiak Qwikshot No Reason given Qwik 10
dubb Mr. Wednesday Mr. Wednesday 0
dubb Qwikshot At worse it's 1 for 1 Qwik 11
Desnudo Grammaticus Grammaticus 0
Desnudo Qwikshot Qwik 12

[st.cronin]

What I'm not a fan of is you saying 'look at my reason for voting' as though you somehow had a good reason, when you most definitely did NOT.

[dacman]

Good god man -- did you really have to post all that again? If you're trying to make a point with all that, I'm missing it.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What I'm not a fan of is you saying 'look at my reason for voting' as though you somehow had a good reason, when you most definitely did NOT.

IT WAS DAY 1!!! did anyone have a good reason before Neon came out?