Vick Sentenced to 23 Months For Dog Fighting - Page 11

MikeVic · 08-16-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

That's what I love about elephants. Besides man, no other animals really can fuck with the elephants.

Mouse.

Eaglesfan27 · 08-16-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

according to CNN vick is considering whether to accept a plea that includes 1 year jailtime but is waiting to hear from the NFL how it would affect his career. same article says that if he doesn't, a superseeding indictment will be issued with RICO charges.

man...part of me hopes he doesn't take the plea and gets the book thrown at him. or the govt. pulls the plea off the table so they can make an example of someone in the case.

According to ESPN (so take it with a grain of salt) an NFL insider has told Chris Mortensen that Goodall will not tell Vick ahead of time how a guilty plea will affect his career and will not negotiate with Vick's lawyers.

Atocep · 08-16-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

According to ESPN (so take it with a grain of salt) an NFL insider has told Chris Mortensen that Goodall will not tell Vick ahead of time how a guilty plea will affect his career and will not negotiate with Vick's lawyers.

Good to hear. Vick shouldn't be able to play both sides to work the lightest punishment he can get. Its understandable that he's trying, but I'm glad Goodall is taking a stand.

I heard on ESPNews a couple days ago that a guilty plea (which obviously means he lied to the commissioner) would result in an automatic 1 year suspension based on the wording of the conduct clause. Goodall could then actually suspend him for the actual crime on top of that.

Don't know how accurate that is, but its what one of the "experts" was discussing.

Kodos · 08-16-2007, 05:01 PM

Goodell should jbanninate him for good.

A-Husker-4-Life · 08-16-2007, 09:11 PM

Vick could maybe be a slash type player for the Raiders in a few years.

Bee · 08-17-2007, 09:10 AM

I saw this morning where the plea agreement recommended a minimum of 1 year of jail time. I guess the actual sentence is up to the judge. It will be interesting to see what he ends up getting if he goes with the agreement.

Noble_Platypus · 08-17-2007, 09:33 AM

We are 30 minutes past the witching hour for ConVick, I wonder if he took the deal?

MikeVic · 08-17-2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

Goodell should jbanninate him for good.

I like what you did there. Combining jbmagic and ban.

albionmoonlight · 08-17-2007, 10:24 AM

Speculating here . . .

One of the hangups might be finding just the right factual admissions. Once this is settled with the feds, Vick might still have to face Virginia state charges.

When you plead guilty, you have to admit what you did. The factual admissions that Vick makes as part of his plea can be used against him in a state prosecution.

So, they might be trying to find a way to get him to admit enough conduct to make the federal plea valid while not admitting anything that would work against him in a state prosecution.

Or, nothing like that at all could be going on. Just speculating here.

miked · 08-17-2007, 11:13 AM

No double-jeopardy? Can you be charged with and tried for the same crime by the Feds and State?

albionmoonlight · 08-17-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

No double-jeopardy? Can you be charged with and tried for the same crime by the Feds and State?

Yes. Two different entities = No Double Jeopardy problem.

Now, in practice, the states tend not to go after you once the feds have you. Federal sentences are long enough that the state figures it can save the resources by not sending you to jail for even longer.

But, with Vick being such a high profile defendant, the state's interest in prosecuting him does not subject itself to the normal analysis.

st.cronin · 08-17-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

No double-jeopardy? Can you be charged with and tried for the same crime by the Feds and State?

I think double jeopardy only comes into play if he is ACQUITTED. If he says "yep I did it" there's no double jeopardy.

John Galt · 08-17-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think double jeopardy only comes into play if he is ACQUITTED. If he says "yep I did it" there's no double jeopardy.

That's not true. albion's summary is right. Double jeopardy doesn't attach if you are charged by two different sovereigns (a state and the federal government). Whether you are found guilty or not guilty has no bearing on whether jeopardy attaches.

BrianD · 08-17-2007, 12:22 PM

As much as I am hoping that Vick gets whatever he deserves in terms of a prison sentence, I'm not sure how I feel about all the calls to ban him for life from the NFL. He certainly is bringing a lot of negative publicity to the league, but shouldn't there be some chance for rehabilitation? If Vick is in prison for a year or two, his skills and form should deteriorate. Seems like if he can learn from this and can get himself back into shape (along with doing some PSAs), I'd be willing to let him back in.

MikeVic · 08-17-2007, 12:25 PM

Yeah, the NFL lets other bad seeds play... he should be able to play eventually again too. Same with PacMan Jones. But this is a different commish now...

stevew · 08-17-2007, 12:27 PM

I dunno, running a corrupt gambling operation should be grounds for jbannination.

MikeVic · 08-17-2007, 12:28 PM

Wasn't there a Rams DE that killed a woman in a hit-and-run, and is still playing? Or am I confusing stories.

gstelmack · 08-17-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Wasn't there a Rams DE that killed a woman in a hit-and-run, and is still playing? Or am I confusing stories.

That's the Leonard Little story a couple of pages back in this very thread.

BrianD · 08-17-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I dunno, running a corrupt gambling operation should be grounds for jbannination.

Having a felony on your record doesn't discount people from consideration for normal jobs, so it shouldn't discount them from the NFL either. Vick could turn his life around. He could turn this situation into a positive for him and the NFL if he is willing to change and act appropriately. As long as he gets "appropriate" prison time (whatever that is), does his time and changes his ways, I wouldn't be against the discussion of letting him back in.

MikeVic · 08-17-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

That's the Leonard Little story a couple of pages back in this very thread.

Oops, didn't see that. Sorry.

stevew · 08-17-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Having a felony on your record doesn't discount people from consideration for normal jobs, so it shouldn't discount them from the NFL either. Vick could turn his life around. He could turn this situation into a positive for him and the NFL if he is willing to change and act appropriately. As long as he gets "appropriate" prison time (whatever that is), does his time and changes his ways, I wouldn't be against the discussion of letting him back in.

I think a 2 year suspension, to be enforced after his release from prison is probably the minimal legit penalty that should be enforced.

Noble_Platypus · 08-17-2007, 01:26 PM

I dont think the NFL will have to ban him. After he serves his time, assuming it is only a year, he will have mised 2 NFL seasons. He is a below average passer, and after 2 seasons of not playing, being 2 years older, etc, he wont be as an effective runner. Plus all of the bad PR that a team would get from signing him from fans and such, I think you may see him in arena ball, but not the NFL.

MikeVic · 08-17-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I think a 2 year suspension, to be enforced after his release from prison is probably the minimal legit penalty that should be enforced.

On PTI yesterday they talked to a legal guy. He said that he thinks the NFL will do something like that, but it will be retroactive to the time he'll be missing now.

BrianD · 08-17-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I think a 2 year suspension, to be enforced after his release from prison is probably the minimal legit penalty that should be enforced.

That is possible, as is a suspension running concurrently with his prison term. I haven't really wrapped my own mind around what is the right length of suspension aside from it being somewhere between no suspension and a lifetime ban. I'll probably not come to that decision until the case is over and the prison term is done.

Huckleberry · 08-17-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Having a felony on your record doesn't discount people from consideration for normal jobs...

Yeah it does. It doesn't "officially" eliminate you, but do you seriously believe that a large number of employers don't go about coming up with another official reason not to hire someone once they see that they're a felon?

Pumpy Tudors · 08-17-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble_Platypus

[snip]

Plus all of the bad PR that a team would get from signing him from fans and such, I think you may see him in arena ball, but not the NFL.

No AFL team would touch him either. If your quarterback can't complete 65% of his passes and/or throw 70 touchdowns in an AFL season (Southern Division excepted), he's worthless. I don't think Vick could handle either of those. If he doesn't keep his running ability, he can't even fill the role that Michael Bishop played up in Grand Rapids in 2005. In fact, I would say that if Michael Vick went to the AFL, he would become "the poor man's Michael Bishop." Those are five scary words right there.

Seriously, bulk him up, teach him to tackle, and put him at jack linebacker. That would be the best position for him in the AFL, as I think his reflexes are quick enough. He's probably not bright enough to avoid multiple illegal defense penalties per game, but his quickness could make up for the 2 or 3 penalties he'd commit. He could completely eliminate an opponent's short passing game, especially if he went to an American Conference team. He could be a defensive superstar in the AFL.

Oh, wait, you probably weren't serious.

Noble_Platypus · 08-17-2007, 02:37 PM

Not really, it was meant to illustrate not his ability to be successful in the AFL, but that the AFL may be the only league that would even consider him.

Noble_Platypus · 08-17-2007, 02:38 PM

Or at least the afl2 league. They took Quincy Carter.

Pumpy Tudors · 08-17-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble_Platypus

Not really, it was meant to illustrate not his ability to be successful in the AFL, but that the AFL may be the only league that would even consider him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble_Platypus

Or at least the afl2 league. They took Quincy Carter.

Eh, I wasn't really serious either. He'd be a smash in the AF2, though!

Noble_Platypus · 08-17-2007, 02:45 PM

I am surprised word hasnt broken yet about whether or not he took the plea deal.The deadline was nearly 6 hours ago.

albionmoonlight · 08-17-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble_Platypus

I am surprised word hasnt broken yet about whether or not he took the plea deal.The deadline was nearly 6 hours ago.

The deadline was imposed by the prosecution. As long as productive talks are happening, they probably just extended it.

Or, perhaps, he has taken a deal, but they are waiting until this evening to announce it so as to lessen the immediate media impact.

BrianD · 08-17-2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Yeah it does. It doesn't "officially" eliminate you, but do you seriously believe that a large number of employers don't go about coming up with another official reason not to hire someone once they see that they're a felon?

I'm pretty sure it comes down to the number of qualified candidates for the position. All things being equal, I'm sure the felon has a harder time getting the job. The qualified talent pool for NFL positions is much smaller.

Young Drachma · 08-17-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

No AFL team would touch him either. If your quarterback can't complete 65% of his passes and/or throw 70 touchdowns in an AFL season (Southern Division excepted), he's worthless. I don't think Vick could handle either of those. If he doesn't keep his running ability, he can't even fill the role that Michael Bishop played up in Grand Rapids in 2005. In fact, I would say that if Michael Vick went to the AFL, he would become "the poor man's Michael Bishop." Those are five scary words right there.

Seriously, bulk him up, teach him to tackle, and put him at jack linebacker. That would be the best position for him in the AFL, as I think his reflexes are quick enough. He's probably not bright enough to avoid multiple illegal defense penalties per game, but his quickness could make up for the 2 or 3 penalties he'd commit. He could completely eliminate an opponent's short passing game, especially if he went to an American Conference team. He could be a defensive superstar in the AFL.

Oh, wait, you probably weren't serious.

::claps::

NoMyths · 08-17-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

No AFL team would touch him either. If your quarterback can't complete 65% of his passes and/or throw 70 touchdowns in an AFL season (Southern Division excepted), he's worthless. I don't think Vick could handle either of those. If he doesn't keep his running ability, he can't even fill the role that Michael Bishop played up in Grand Rapids in 2005. In fact, I would say that if Michael Vick went to the AFL, he would become "the poor man's Michael Bishop." Those are five scary words right there.

Seriously, bulk him up, teach him to tackle, and put him at jack linebacker. That would be the best position for him in the AFL, as I think his reflexes are quick enough. He's probably not bright enough to avoid multiple illegal defense penalties per game, but his quickness could make up for the 2 or 3 penalties he'd commit. He could completely eliminate an opponent's short passing game, especially if he went to an American Conference team. He could be a defensive superstar in the AFL.

Oh, wait, you probably weren't serious.

I remember when Bishop had us on the brink of the National Championship Game while at K-State. The Big 12 Championship Game that year was and may forever be the high-water mark for KSU athletics.

Oh, and the next game they played? Against a team I swore I'd hate forever -- the Purdue Boilermakers, led by Drew Brees, in the Alamo Bowl. Two years later I was storming the field in West Lafayette as Brees put us in the Rose Bowl.

MikeVic · 08-17-2007, 03:55 PM

Is this the Michael Bishop that's QB in the CFL now for the Argos?

Pumpy Tudors · 08-17-2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Is this the Michael Bishop that's QB in the CFL now for the Argos?

Yes. He also played for Grand Rapids and Kansas City in the AFL earlier this year.

MikeVic · 08-17-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Yes. He also played for Grand Rapids and Kansas City in the AFL earlier this year.

Oh cool, I didn't know. I think he got injured early this year though...

Eaglesfan27 · 08-17-2007, 07:06 PM

Just watching sportscenter in the background, and they said the State of Virginia has announced plans to separately prosecute Vick for the dog fighting charges.

Noble_Platypus · 08-17-2007, 08:05 PM

About time Poindexter got off his ass to do something.

Bee · 08-17-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Just watching sportscenter in the background, and they said the State of Virginia has announced plans to separately prosecute Vick for the dog fighting charges.

Sloppy Seconds!

SackAttack · 08-17-2007, 08:17 PM

Can Vick appeal his sentence? Say he agrees to a plea deal with the prosecution, who recommend a minimum of one year in prison, but the judge hands down the 5 year max. Can Vick appeal that, or is he stuck with that as his sentence?

Eaglesfan27 · 08-17-2007, 08:19 PM

No, it is not appealable.

Logan · 08-17-2007, 08:20 PM

No lawyer, but I remember seeing The Practice once where a guy agreed to a plea deal and the "recommend sentencing," but the judge disagreed with what the prosecution wanted and he was screwed.

I'm sure they do their research.

SackAttack · 08-17-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

No, it is not appealable.

That could be fun. Judge gives him five, Virginia jumps in with their own prosecution...if that happens, could the judge in the state case sentence him to a term concurrent with the federal term, or would he be REALLY SOL in that situation?

Buccaneer · 08-17-2007, 08:40 PM

I think he is SOL just on the gambling ring part, which I heard can be a lifetime in the NFL.

John Galt · 08-17-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

No, it is not appealable.

It depends on the terms of the plea deal. And certain grounds are always appealable. However, in the federal system these days, winning a sentencing appeal of a within guidelines sentence (which I expect Vick's will be) is virtually impossible.

Philliesfan980 · 08-17-2007, 09:06 PM

What do you guys think the chances are that Vick does more than a year? I'm so disappointed by the justice system, that I can't see it happening.

miami_fan · 08-17-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

What do you guys think the chances are that Vick does more than a year? I'm so disappointed by the justice system, that I can't see it happening.

I am no lawyer but the more I listen to the "experts", the more I believe he will be looking at closer to 2 years than he is looking at one year. The only thing that brings him back to a year IMO is him turning on someone who is deeper into the dogfighting business than he is.

Deattribution · 08-17-2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

What do you guys think the chances are that Vick does more than a year? I'm so disappointed by the justice system, that I can't see it happening.

I'd say he probably gets 18 to 24 months and is out in 8 to 12 on good behavior.

molson · 08-17-2007, 09:48 PM

A year in jail is some serious shit. I'm sure there's tons of people that never thought that kind of time was possible in a dog fighting case. If I'm the government, I take that and run. It's a huge statement that this isn't going to be tolerated as a "part of rural southern life" or whatever the hell it is now.

08-16-2007, 09:11 PM	#505
A-Husker-4-Life College Prospect Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nebraska	Vick could maybe be a slash type player for the Raiders in a few years. __________________ JJ Smitty Owner of the TheC.F.L. - Come by and check us out.

08-17-2007, 09:33 AM	#507
Noble_Platypus College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: York, Pa	We are 30 minutes past the witching hour for ConVick, I wonder if he took the deal? __________________ We had the $240, we had to have the puddin' Last edited by Noble_Platypus : 08-17-2007 at 09:33 AM.

08-17-2007, 11:13 AM	#510
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	No double-jeopardy? Can you be charged with and tried for the same crime by the Feds and State? __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

08-17-2007, 01:26 PM	#522
Noble_Platypus College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: York, Pa	I dont think the NFL will have to ban him. After he serves his time, assuming it is only a year, he will have mised 2 NFL seasons. He is a below average passer, and after 2 seasons of not playing, being 2 years older, etc, he wont be as an effective runner. Plus all of the bad PR that a team would get from signing him from fans and such, I think you may see him in arena ball, but not the NFL. __________________ We had the $240, we had to have the puddin'

08-17-2007, 02:37 PM	#527
Noble_Platypus College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: York, Pa	Not really, it was meant to illustrate not his ability to be successful in the AFL, but that the AFL may be the only league that would even consider him. __________________ We had the $240, we had to have the puddin'

08-16-2007, 05:01 PM	#504
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Goodell should jbanninate him for good.

08-17-2007, 09:10 AM	#506
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I saw this morning where the plea agreement recommended a minimum of 1 year of jail time. I guess the actual sentence is up to the judge. It will be interesting to see what he ends up getting if he goes with the agreement.

08-17-2007, 10:24 AM	#509
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Speculating here . . . One of the hangups might be finding just the right factual admissions. Once this is settled with the feds, Vick might still have to face Virginia state charges. When you plead guilty, you have to admit what you did. The factual admissions that Vick makes as part of his plea can be used against him in a state prosecution. So, they might be trying to find a way to get him to admit enough conduct to make the federal plea valid while not admitting anything that would work against him in a state prosecution. Or, nothing like that at all could be going on. Just speculating here.

08-17-2007, 12:22 PM	#514
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	As much as I am hoping that Vick gets whatever he deserves in terms of a prison sentence, I'm not sure how I feel about all the calls to ban him for life from the NFL. He certainly is bringing a lot of negative publicity to the league, but shouldn't there be some chance for rehabilitation? If Vick is in prison for a year or two, his skills and form should deteriorate. Seems like if he can learn from this and can get himself back into shape (along with doing some PSAs), I'd be willing to let him back in.

08-17-2007, 12:25 PM	#515
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	Yeah, the NFL lets other bad seeds play... he should be able to play eventually again too. Same with PacMan Jones. But this is a different commish now...

08-17-2007, 12:27 PM	#516
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I dunno, running a corrupt gambling operation should be grounds for jbannination.

08-17-2007, 12:28 PM	#517
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	Wasn't there a Rams DE that killed a woman in a hit-and-run, and is still playing? Or am I confusing stories.

08-17-2007, 02:38 PM	#528
Noble_Platypus College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: York, Pa	Or at least the afl2 league. They took Quincy Carter. __________________ We had the $240, we had to have the puddin'

08-17-2007, 02:45 PM	#530
Noble_Platypus College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: York, Pa	I am surprised word hasnt broken yet about whether or not he took the plea deal.The deadline was nearly 6 hours ago. __________________ We had the $240, we had to have the puddin'

08-17-2007, 03:55 PM	#535
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	Is this the Michael Bishop that's QB in the CFL now for the Argos?

08-17-2007, 07:06 PM	#538
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Just watching sportscenter in the background, and they said the State of Virginia has announced plans to separately prosecute Vick for the dog fighting charges. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

08-17-2007, 08:05 PM	#539
Noble_Platypus College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: York, Pa	About time Poindexter got off his ass to do something. __________________ We had the $240, we had to have the puddin'

08-17-2007, 08:17 PM	#541
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Can Vick appeal his sentence? Say he agrees to a plea deal with the prosecution, who recommend a minimum of one year in prison, but the judge hands down the 5 year max. Can Vick appeal that, or is he stuck with that as his sentence?

08-17-2007, 08:19 PM	#542
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	No, it is not appealable. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

08-17-2007, 08:20 PM	#543
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	No lawyer, but I remember seeing The Practice once where a guy agreed to a plea deal and the "recommend sentencing," but the judge disagreed with what the prosecution wanted and he was screwed. I'm sure they do their research.

08-17-2007, 08:40 PM	#545
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I think he is SOL just on the gambling ring part, which I heard can be a lifetime in the NFL.

08-17-2007, 09:06 PM	#547
Philliesfan980 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Exton, PA	What do you guys think the chances are that Vick does more than a year? I'm so disappointed by the justice system, that I can't see it happening.

08-17-2007, 09:48 PM	#550
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	A year in jail is some serious shit. I'm sure there's tons of people that never thought that kind of time was possible in a dog fighting case. If I'm the government, I take that and run. It's a huge statement that this isn't going to be tolerated as a "part of rural southern life" or whatever the hell it is now.

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