Alright boyz, here we go!! Civilization IV first impressions...

[henry296]

I just finished my first game. It took almost 20 hours of game play. It was on a normal size map with 7 opponents. It ended up with 2 large continental islands. I was on the larger island with Saladin, Genghis Khan, and Julius Caesar. I was the Americans. The other island had Japan, Cyrus, and Spain. The level was Warlord and I won a space race in about 2030 after gaining complete control of my island taking out the Romans first, then the Mongolians and finally Saladin. Here are some thoughts.

1. Very much a just one more turn. Most nights up to about 12 - 12:30 still playing.

2. I got a very early tech lead and actually easily researched everything. That tech advantage allowed me to control all of my wars. I kept my research at 90% the whole game and still run a slight surplus.

3. Lots of resources available. I had 3 oil fields within most of my original borders. Perhaps a product of difficulty level. I will be playing Noble next.

4. It is a computer cruncher. I have a Dell laptop and no problems getting in working with a ATI Radeon 9000 Mobility video card. One time I had some weird graphically glitches where as a scrolled the colors all blended together. Also, there is a small graphics glitch behind the mouse cursor. Also, I sometimes will here the hard drive really working hard and make loud almost grinding sounds especially when it is loading. In fact, I hear that sound now, and the game isn't loaded. Hope that isn't a bad sign.

5. Many options for individual city strategies. Although having all the techs no city had every building. On higher levels city specialization will be key.

6. At the end of the game, I rushed the building of Broadway but did not get the Great Artist. Perhaps because I rushed it.

7. Endgame did drag as I spent the last 20-25 turns building the space ship after winning the war for the continent.

8. Didn't really build much of a Navy. Never even tried to explore or attack the other 3 civs on the other island.

9. Still trying to understand how to use religion and the specialists correctly. I do like their additions and in higher level game will be crucial.

10. Bombarding cities is critical since city defense makes it difficult to just overwhelm the cities with forces. I found Bombers helped turn the tide in my stalemate vs. Saladin in the early gunpowder era.

Overall, 2 thumbs up and well worth it.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Dola -

Is there anyway to turn off space victory after the game is started? I forgot to turn it off before starting my latest game (which is now into the early midgame portion.)

AFAIK, No. You are stuck with the options you picked at the beginning.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

AFAIK, No. You are stuck with the options you picked at the beginning.

Thanks, I thought so, but just wanted to make sure there wasn't some way to do this that I was overlooking.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

That's interesting. In my game, Kahn is just to the south of me (with the Germans a little further down) on a "continent" island. I made it a point to be real friendly with him and he hasn't asked much. He founded Judiasm before I founded Christianity and started to spread it in my capital. But I concentrated on culture and religion and after gifting a few techs (they do come too fast), I got the Mongols to convert to Christianity. Don't know really what to expect but with my border right up against his two cities, I may not have to worry about them. But then maybe I will.

Screw that pooch, just a few turns later, the Mongols went from Pleased to Annoyed and declared war on me. Fortunately he didn't send an army but did destroy some valuable tiles. I looked at the + and - in the foreign advisor screen and it show +8 for and -4 against. Don't you think there would be a reason for declaring war out of the blue?

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Don't you think there would be a reason for declaring war out of the blue?

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Don't know really what to expect but with my border right up against his two cities...

That was probably the reason. Especially, if either city had revolted on him because of your cultural influence. Also, if he evaluated his military forces as being far stronger than yours, it could have influenced his actions. Or, at least I like to think the AI is programmed that way.

[Eilim]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Screw that pooch, just a few turns later, the Mongols went from Pleased to Annoyed and declared war on me. Fortunately he didn't send an army but did destroy some valuable tiles. I looked at the + and - in the foreign advisor screen and it show +8 for and -4 against. Don't you think there would be a reason for declaring war out of the blue?

From what I've read, certain civs just tend to be more warlike (Montezuma, The Khans,etc.) and will be a pain to keep happy nomatter what you do. At an overall +4, I don't think its too far out of wack for one of the agressive CIVs to go after you at that point. Especially if he sensed weakness miltary wise, or was at that point hemmed in and your were the path of least resistance.

Still sucks though, and I still cringe whenever one of the warmonger civs starts on my border. I've actually started playing the agressive civs just to limit the chances of having on of those backstabbing bastards next to me.

Funny thing is, I just saved and jumped out of a game that pretty much the same exact thing has happened. The mongols up north just switched their state religion, giving the -4 diplo hit and declared war after a decent length of time of us being best of friends. Luckily he is completely surrounded by all of my allies who I just got to all delcare war on him at once. Should be fun.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Screw that pooch, just a few turns later, the Mongols went from Pleased to Annoyed and declared war on me. Fortunately he didn't send an army but did destroy some valuable tiles. I looked at the + and - in the foreign advisor screen and it show +8 for and -4 against. Don't you think there would be a reason for declaring war out of the blue?

I would say going to war without reason is very realistic.

[jbmagic]

just one minor diplomacy bug been reported.

for example you can trade 30 gpt for 30 gpt and get a plus for reputation.

also another diplomacy bug that been reported
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=134518


the good news is there seems like a new patch for civ4 is coming next week according to civfanatics web site.

[MikeVic]

Any word on my question? I don't find my defensive pact civs helping me when another civ declares war on me. This is pretty annoying. They do declar war on the civ, but stand around and watch me die.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Eilim

From what I've read, certain civs just tend to be more warlike (Montezuma, The Khans,etc.) and will be a pain to keep happy nomatter what you do. At an overall +4, I don't think its too far out of wack for one of the agressive CIVs to go after you at that point. Especially if he sensed weakness miltary wise, or was at that point hemmed in and your were the path of least resistance.

Still sucks though, and I still cringe whenever one of the warmonger civs starts on my border. I've actually started playing the agressive civs just to limit the chances of having on of those backstabbing bastards next to me.

Funny thing is, I just saved and jumped out of a game that pretty much the same exact thing has happened. The mongols up north just switched their state religion, giving the -4 diplo hit and declared war after a decent length of time of us being best of friends. Luckily he is completely surrounded by all of my allies who I just got to all delcare war on him at once. Should be fun.

I understand. Fortunately since I am just playing along without any definable strategies (it is still my first game), it's easy to switch to producing Axemen, Swordsmen and Longbowmen. I may have to put a small army together to prevent them from destroying any more of my resources. At least now I got something for my Workers to do instead of building roads for no apparent reason.

[jbmagic]

i ususally build my city 3-4 spaces apart.

i dont think its good to spread out cities more than that.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

just one minor diplomacy bug been reported.

for example you can trade 30 gpt for 30 gpt and get a plus for reputation.

Though that doesn't seem like such a big deal. If you don't want to abuse the game in that way, you don't have to.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

i ususally build my city 3-4 spaces apart.

i dont think its good to spread out cities more than that.

I usually put mine 5-6 spaces apart, so I can have cities work the full city area without having to compete with a sister city.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I usually put mine 5-6 spaces apart, so I can have cities work the full city area without having to compete with a sister city.

Same here. I rarely overlap cities (and then usually only by 1 corner square.)

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Same here. I rarely overlap cities (and then usually only by 1 corner square.)

That's what do, but it also depends on the resources and terrain avaliable.

[jbmagic]

building cities tightly seems like it makes more sense then spready them out.


i know that was the case on civ 3. i guess i need to play more games out on civ 4 to see if that still holds true.

[jbmagic]

alos the further from the capital you build, the higher the maintenance cost.

so you want to build tightly as possible.


but also It depends on how much terrain you have and how good terrain... if you have lots of good terrain you should build so all squares are used. If not you'll want to ignore the bad terrain to get as much good as you can, even if it sometimes means placing cities a little futher away.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

alos the further from the capital you build, the higher the maintenance cost.

so you want to build tightly as possible

However, you also pay higher maintenance cost per city. Therefore, you don't just want to build as many as possible. Quality over quantity.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Eilim

I was running into the same situation, while I still prefer the slow build, I've been tinkering with some of the strats in *this* thread when I find myself close to another civ at the start and having some success.

Thank you for that link. Very interesting read. "Chooping" sounds like something to play with, but I also like the "Farsight" strategy.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Thank you for that link. Very interesting read. "Chooping" sounds like something to play with, but I also like the "Farsight" strategy.

Just beware of Chopping. Forests are very important in the late game. Lumbermills and the +1 to health are essential. Without forests, you may indeed fall behind in the late game.

[ISiddiqui]

In addition, Vel posted this today:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...0&pagenumber=4

Did a LOT of playtesting last night, and determined that chop isn't all that it's cracked up to be, at least not when used "Locust-Style".

Situationally, it's awesome, but of course, you're at the mercy of

a) terrain
b) where you start on the tech tree

If you don't start with mining and you DO start with some other settler abilities (farming, roads, camp), then you're better off running with your native strengths, at least in the short run.

Likewise, you just plain might not have anything much to chop, in which case, it's a good idea to MAYBE keep in mind for when you found your second city, but before that...*shrug* Don't matta.

So on Monarch and higher, I'm back to preferring a settler first approach in SP

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Just beware of Chopping. Forests are very important in the late game. Lumbermills and the +1 to health are essential. Without forests, you may indeed fall behind in the late game.

Yeah, and read Vel's other comment, too. Like I said I like the chopping and the farsight ideas, but neither should be exclusive. It is going to depend a bunch on terrain type. Clear cutting would rarely be a good idea, though I don't see many people advocating that. I would think optium would be a couple of cuts close to the city early on, then cutting outside the city area later *IF* there are a lot of trees. If you're tree poor, I'd go another route.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, basically in this version of Civ, there are no clear cut (no pun intended ) solutions. I love how (so far) you have multiple strategies available to you instead of one clear answer.

[MikeVic]

Well, I sure learned my "no military" approach lesson. Played my first game on Noble, and the Aztecs (FURSE YOU MONTEZUMA) just slaughtered me by 220 AD. I was winning in points too.

He had so many damn horse archers, it was scary.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeah, basically in this version of Civ, there are no clear cut (no pun intended ) solutions. I love how (so far) you have multiple strategies available to you instead of one clear answer.

Exactly.

[Buccaneer]

Vel's thread is why no one needs to buy a strategy guide.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Certain civilizations are definitely asses. The Greeks under Alexander and the Russians under Frederick have been major bitches in my games. Some people you just can't please. Might as well fry them if you get the chance.

In my current game Alexander just declared war on me for no legitimate reason. Bastard has two armies of axemen and an army of elephants bearing down on my laboriously built but still weakly defended colony in prime forestland. I've got one army of warriors and an army of axemen in defense. If they somehow can hold, an army of my horsemen should get there immediately after the first attack. Bastard.

[Eilim]

I've actually grown a soft spot for Frederick as he just saved my bacon in the holy war to end all holy wars. Four Hindu based civs taking on four Judism(sp?) civs dragging in the other four civs during the course of the war.

Sad thing is, while the war started with the mongols (jewish) and myself(hindu) after he flipped on religions, I am actually the founder of both the religions. War wasn't completely over until 3 of the jewish and one of the others (either un-aligned, or possibly christian) were wiped from the planet. Damn thing lasted nearly through two complete "ages" with momentum and cities going back and forth the whole time. That was two ages on epic too, it was unreal.

Damn, I don't think I can express how much I love this game.

[MikeVic]

I've only managed lengthy games during the easier difficulty levels... Do civs participate in multiple-civ wars more often in Noble? I haven't come across one yet in the few games I've played.

[Galaxy]

I never realized how much of a cash cow the markets are.

[Eilim]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I've only managed lengthy games during the easier difficulty levels... Do civs participate in multiple-civ wars more often in Noble? I haven't come across one yet in the few games I've played.

This one going ugly was completely my fault. As soon as the mongols declared war on me (one which to be honest, I wasn't completely prepared for.) I pulled Frederick into it. Shortly there after the Mongols pulled in an ally. From that point on there was atleast 4 civs involved in the war at any one time, I think the most at any time being 7. But it basiclly just kept chaining itself where once the fight between two civs would end, someone else either started fighting or got pulled into the "main" battle.

It just seemed that every time someone was asked for help, they agreed. Up untill that game, I think the most I've ever seen in a single "war" was four, and they never really seemed to last that long as someone would always make a quick peace leaving it a two on one.

I dunno what caused this melee to go on like it did, might have alot to do with me running it on a standard sized pangea with extra civs added and set to "aggressive AI".

[GrantDawg]

I just finished a Noble level game with the Indian civ on a standard level map. I only built three cities to start, with a fourth built late in the middle ages. I absolutely kicked ass. I tried the "cutting" idea, and it rocks. In the end, I had 9 cities without ever fighting a war (all other cities taken through culture). I gave whatever other civs demanded to keep from fighting, and continued to build culture in my first two cities until I ruled. So cool.

[Donnie Baker]

Originally Posted by Godzilla Blitz

Certain civilizations are definitely asses. The Greeks under Alexander and the Russians under Frederick have been major bitches in my games. Some people you just can't please. Might as well fry them if you get the chance.

In my current game Alexander just declared war on me for no legitimate reason. Bastard has two armies of axemen and an army of elephants bearing down on my laboriously built but still weakly defended colony in prime forestland. I've got one army of warriors and an army of axemen in defense. If they somehow can hold, an army of my horsemen should get there immediately after the first attack. Bastard.

Oddly, the Greeks under Alexander have been great towards my civ so far, but every other one hates them and wants me to sever ties with them.

[Neuqua]

Sounds like there is really no good reason for me to not buy this game...

Hmm.. Though my birthday is only a month away...

[CamEdwards]

w00t! My wife said I could buy the game yesterday... so I did. Up til 1 a.m. playing it.

I'm basically just figuring out how to play the game, so I've been running through a game on Chieftan level.

My biggest question is regarding those "Great People". I'm guessing they only make sense to use as a culture bomb if you use them in a city very close to the border, correct?

[jbmagic]

Barbarian State and Minor Civ

In Civ1 and Civ2, the leader of the Barbarians is Attila the Hun. And in Civ4, the Barbarian leader is Sid Meier, forum member mabusciv discovered.

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/s...784&original=1

If you open the Civ4CiviliationInfos.xml file and edit the "bAIPlayable" and "bPlayable" settings to 1 instead of zero (for the Barbarians), the Barbarians become playable as a civilization. When you choose the barbarians as a civ in the menu, you will be able to choose two skill levels. Minors or barbarians.

Minors are a a minor civilization which can found cities and so forthe just as any other civ could. They play as the Native American indians with Sid Meier as the head barbarian {not kidding}. Each city they found becomes an indian tribe {the cherokee, navajo, olmec, apache etc...}

When you choose the Barbarian Skill setting you play as the actual barbarians you normally see attacking everyone. You cannot found cities and just basically wander around the map trying to attack someone.

[Passacaglia]

lol -- can you do it in a multi player game?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

w00t! My wife said I could buy the game yesterday... so I did. Up til 1 a.m. playing it.

I'm basically just figuring out how to play the game, so I've been running through a game on Chieftan level.

My biggest question is regarding those "Great People". I'm guessing they only make sense to use as a culture bomb if you use them in a city very close to the border, correct?

Yeap, the best thing to do. I did it last night with Russia, and my border surronding an Arab city just exploded. If the game didn't crash, I would of gotten that city soon.

As for the "Great people", I'm still working on what option is better, between the Great Building/art, and the super specialist? Can anyone break these down better?

Anyone see the great musician guy, lol.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

w00t! My wife said I could buy the game yesterday... so I did. Up til 1 a.m. playing it.

I'm basically just figuring out how to play the game, so I've been running through a game on Chieftan level.

My biggest question is regarding those "Great People". I'm guessing they only make sense to use as a culture bomb if you use them in a city very close to the border, correct?

Cam,

I do a mix of things with mine. I usually do the culture bomb with the artists, unless I have a city I'm concerned with getting more "consistent" culture. Then I'll make him a super specialist in that city.

I will usually build a lab with the first sceintist I get. The engineers will either become super people in the city, or they'll be used to speed up a world wonder.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

My biggest question is regarding those "Great People". I'm guessing they only make sense to use as a culture bomb if you use them in a city very close to the border, correct?

Culture bombs only exist for Great Artists, but yeah, you want to use it at a border.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Culture bombs only exist for Great Artists, but yeah, you want to use it at a border.

And only if it takes the city to the next cultural level? If the city is already on Influential, it would be a long time before it would expand more - unless something else drives expansion, which I haven't figured out yet.

I also have to learn more about using GP. My 3rd GP I got was a Great Prophet and he's just been sitting there until I get another GP so I can enter a Golden Age. Not sure if that's a good strategy but I guess it's worth a try to see what happens.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

And only if it takes the city to the next cultural level? If the city is already on Influential, it would be a long time before it would expand more - unless something else drives expansion, which I haven't figured out yet.

I also have to learn more about using GP. My 3rd GP I got was a Great Prophet and he's just been sitting there until I get another GP so I can enter a Golden Age. Not sure if that's a good strategy but I guess it's worth a try to see what happens.

I don't think it takes a full level to grow your borders. I know I have seen cities grow without hitting the next level. I don't know at what rate the borders expand, but it isn't just at the cultural level progression.

[Buccaneer]

GD, I have obviously seen that but I wish I knew what's doing it. Can it be that when a tile reaches majority of your nationality, it switches? If so, how does affect the nationality of a tile?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

And only if it takes the city to the next cultural level? If the city is already on Influential, it would be a long time before it would expand more - unless something else drives expansion, which I haven't figured out yet.

Where else would you use culture bombs? If your city is 'influential', then you pick something else to do with the artist.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

GD, I have obviously seen that but I wish I knew what's doing it. Can it be that when a tile reaches majority of your nationality, it switches? If so, how does affect the nationality of a tile?

It has to be that culture is the main reason for that switch, but I still don't know what determines how far and where. I have tested the "culture bomb" thing a little by saving the game, and setting the bomb off in three different cities (a small city close to the border, and medium size city a distance from the border, and a large city far away from the border). As far as I could tell, it was more effective in the medium sized town. That was a far from scientific approach to to determine it (because many times it takes two rounds to really see the effect, and it also seems there is a little random element too, because I have had a crash that caused me to culture bomb the same city twice, and the results were different).

I dare say give it a month or so, and people will have this all exactly figured out.

[Eaglesfan27]

This thread is making me want to rush off and play some more Civ4 (and the Houston/Jax game is not that boring.)

Buc, I've kept an eye along my borders and I believe it is when the tile reaches a majority of your nationality that it switches. The question is what does that? Is it just culture? Does the military in the area have anything to do with it? Does city size affect it? I'm not sure. Well, off to try to figure these out in the game

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Where else would you use culture bombs? If your city is 'influential', then you pick something else to do with the artist.

No, it will expand the borders of a city even if it doesn't take it to the next level. And from what I can see the effect seems to be expodential to the level of the city (in other words, a large influential city is more likely to cuase a flip even from a slightly greater distance). Of course if the smaller city is by far closer to the cities you want to flip it will do better, but it seems to me a large city will have the better effect even if it is three-four tiles further away.

[Buccaneer]

EF, those are exactly the questions I have and better stated than my rushed, butchered one.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

This thread is making me want to rush off and play some more Civ4 (and the Houston/Jax game is not that boring.)

Buc, I've kept an eye along my borders and I believe it is when the tile reaches a majority of your nationality that it switches. The question is what does that? Is it just culture? Does the military in the area have anything to do with it? Does city size affect it? I'm not sure. Well, off to try to figure these out in the game

Here is my question, what is the best way to protect a city from a flip (or incourage one to flip)? Does military make a difference? Religion?

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Here is my question, what is the best way to protect a city from a flip (or incourage one to flip)? Does military make a difference? Religion?

i think its culture