Soccer Thread 2008-09 {R}

[Big Fo]

A couple of outlets are reporting that they've agreed a fee for Villa.

[Icy]

Wow Florentino Perez really wants the "Galactic team back", this is from the Spanish sports press today.

- C.Ronaldo deal done between Madrid and Manchester, around $140 Million fee. Now R.Madrid needs to negotiate with the player.

- Villa deal seems also done for around $50 Milllion.

[Icy]

Dola, Ronaldo deal agreement is now public at Manchester website:

Reds accept £80m Ronaldo bid - Manchester United Official Web Site

It's crazy in current economy. I'm also not a big fan of a team formed only by big stars, it's hard to make them become a real team but as R.Madrid fan, i can't avoid to be excited for next year. Seems i'll need to hurry up to buy some tickets for next season games, soon they will be hard to find.

[tyketime]

Well who didn't see this one coming? I have grown tired of his antics at ManU. It will be interesting to see how his new teammates will respond to his petulance. As for the Red Devils, will this allow them to keep Tevez? And who will they slot into the left wing? How much of the fee will go towards buying new players, and how much to pay down some of their extraordinary debt?

It has already become an interesting offseason!

[Ajaxab]

Where is R.Madrid finding all this cash to spend on just two players?

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

Where is R.Madrid finding all this cash to spend on just two players?

Apparently you are not the only one:

Barcelona's economic director is mystified how Real Madrid are able to spend so much money on players and has called on Florentino Perez to reveal where it is all coming from.

Xavier Sala i Martin does not understand how a club that have previously admitted to having huge debts already can suddenly gain access to the huge sums they are now spending.

[DaddyTorgo]

*vomits*

now $130m on Ronaldo?

really??? what are they going to do with their existing midfielders (who were definately not the club's problem last season with the exception of maybe a holding midfielder)

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I am very happy that ManU sold a player they can't replace. Not saying they won't find good players, but a ManU team without Ronaldo is much more palatable.

[Big Fo]

When Manchester City or Chelsea spend millions they are ruining the sport, when Real Madrid do it hardly anyone bats an eye. That's the difference between old money and new money I guess.

So Real Madrid are in a couple hundred million euros of debt? Who cares, the king will buy their training ground for €270m clearing their debt and allowing them to sign Figo, Beckham, Zidane, and Ronaldo the elder. It goes bac

Now Real Madrid go one season without winning the league and Perez has the backing of some of the country's major banks apparently.

They've been aided by the government for years going back to the days of di Stefano, it's pathetic, they are the least sympathetic team in all of world sport, the Lakers, Cowboys, and Yankees combined with help from fascists and the monarchy over the years.

I would love to see Blatter and Platini come out against this kind of spending but doubt it will happen since it is a non-English club involved. I still remember Blatter's "slavery" comment when United wouldn't sell Ronaldo last year, double standards ftw.

As for Manchester United it will be a tough transfer window with Ronaldo and Tevez leaving.

The only thing that would come close to replacing the impact of those two would be signing Ribery and Ibrahimovic but that's me dreaming. Wigan's Antonio Valencia might be coming in at right wing, he's not in Ribery's league imo, just a fast and tricky winger who might not be much better than guys like Aaron Lennon or Theo Walcott. Eto'o would be a nice signing up front, he only has a year left on his deal but Barca might use him to get Ibrahimovic. Assuming the biggest stars are unattainable I wouldn't mind seeing them send some of the cash back to Madrid for Sneijder and/or Robben.

[Big Fo]

UEFA in non-hypocrisy shocker, fair play to Platini:

PARIS (AFP) - European football supremo Michel Platini expressed shock Thursday as Real Madrid's world record bid for Cristiano Ronaldo followed hot on the heels of the blockbuster Kaka move.

"These excessive transfers are happening almost every day," said the Frenchman, who as president of UEFA has vowed to clean up the financial side of the game and create a level economic playing field.

"These transfers are a serious challenge to the idea of fairplay and the concept of financial balance in our competitions," said Platini, who as one of the World's top players was lured to Juventus of Italy from French side St Etienne back in 1982.

Platini, who went on to win the European Player of the Year award in 1983, 1984 and 1985 explained that UEFA was planning action to put an end to football's excesses.
"UEFA is working hard with clubs to set up a new set of rules as soon as is possible to clean up the system and give it a more solid, more transparent base," Platini told AFP.
"That is our top priority today."

Platini's comments come after Real Madrid bid 94 million euros (130 million dollars) for Manchester United striker Cristiano Ronaldo Thursday, days after they paid AC Milan 65 million euros for the Brazilian midfielder Kaka.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

When Manchester City or Chelsea spend millions they are ruining the sport, when Real Madrid do it hardly anyone bats an eye. That's the difference between old money and new money I guess.

So Real Madrid are in a couple hundred million euros of debt? Who cares, the king will buy their training ground for €270m clearing their debt and allowing them to sign Figo, Beckham, Zidane, and Ronaldo the elder. It goes bac

Now Real Madrid go one season without winning the league and Perez has the backing of some of the country's major banks apparently.

They've been aided by the government for years going back to the days of di Stefano, it's pathetic, they are the least sympathetic team in all of world sport, the Lakers, Cowboys, and Yankees combined with help from fascists and the monarchy over the years.

Umm sorry but the current socialist president is a self declared Barcelona fan, our king is anything but powerful nowadays and has never bought anything from R.Madrid (it was the Madrid city government who bought the terrain surrounding the stadium and who gave them huge cash), and he is more of a lefty king (as lefty as a monarch can be), so i can't see where the government or fascism has anything to do with current Real Madrid economic power.

I guess you are mixing things, and talking about the old dictatorship were Franco was supposed to help R.Madrid, but if any team would be favored right now it would be Barcelona.

The money is supossed to come mainly from a top Spanish bank, whose owner is a friend of Florentino Perez, who is himself one of the richest Spanish businessmen.

Money calls money, R.Madrid is the biggest and more known team in the world (probably hated too, as Yankees and for the same reasons), and any $ they expend returns back doubled by media, fans, sponsors etc. Also as i said, their current owner is one of the richest guys in the country, that is why banks are not afraid of loaning any money to him/them.

And btw, i just wanted to make things clear, but i don't like those huge expenses either, specially when our economy is going down and down and more and more people is loosing their job. It creates a really bad image.

Also i'm not sure about Ronaldo, he is the typical soccer player who is naturally gifted but loves party too much... and if he had party in Uk... wait when he comes to Spain. I didn't like his attitude either when losing vs Barcelona, e did nothing but to kick Bacrlona players. I give him one good year before he destroys his career like the other Ronaldo or Ronaldinho did. His signing was more about marketing and raising even more R.Madrid brand value than about soccer, exactly like Beckham signing in the past.

Kaka is another thing and i expect him to be an start here for years.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think Kaka will fit in a lot better in Spain then he did in Italy and will be in some sense "reborn" in the more free-flowing Spanish game. I'm actually looking forward to that.

Cristiano - meh. I'd rather see Robben/Sneijder on the wings (because you have to move Sneijder out of the centre of the pitch if you're putting Kaka in as an AMC, you need holding midfielders).

[Icy]

Something fun to think about.

C.Ronaldo is also known as CR7, as he wears number 7 in Manchester. He has also CR7 registered as a brand, and two shops named that way.

In R.Madrid, Raul wears #7 and there is no way that he will lose it until he retires, as he is the franchise player, so C.Ronaldo would wear #9, the number that forwards usually use and that will get free in R.Madrid as Saviola is leaving the team.

The fun thing that makes you think if he had it planned it already, is that Ronaldo registered the brand CR9 a few months ago...

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm - he must have at least had the idea high in his mind then icy!

interesting!

[Big Fo]

Ronaldo also just signed a big contract extension with Nike and now he'll be wearing Adidas for the next six years.

Maybe a tougher day for Phil Knight than SAF, reports say SAF was happy to sell Ronaldo for that price once the Glazers assured him that all the money could be spent on new players. Behind the scenes Ronaldo was a bit of a problem with his attitude and ego and maybe they were getting tired of his antics in addition to wanting that huge fee.

[dacman]

For ManU, it's time for the rest of the old guard to move on or retire -- Giggs, Scholes, Neville, and maybe even Van der Sar.

Knowing SAF, he'll have 3-4 guys he'll want to bring in at 15-20M a piece with that money.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

UEFA in non-hypocrisy shocker, fair play to Platini:

On the other hand, Blatter has no problem with it:

Florentino Perez: Spending won't overwhelm Real Madrid with debt - Europe - ESPN Soccernet

But Blatter said: "What does 80m mean when 10 years ago another player with the same name (Ronaldo of Brazil) moved from one club to another for 50m dollars?."It means that there is still a demand to have the stars."
Blatter added: "We are in a very sensitive market, in an economic crisis, but football remains a fantastic product, not just to buy or sell but a product that gives people what they want - emotions. They want the stars.

[Big Fo]

The US looks like it will benefit from a recent rule change that allows players over 21 to switch national teams if they've only appeared in friendlies and youth matches for one nation.

Schalke midfielder Jermaine Jones (3 German caps in friendlies) will no longer represent Germany and has switched to the US. His father is an American.

There's some kind of 60 day rule so he won't be eligible for the Gold Cup and maybe the Azteca game.

Good news, hopefully this means Mastroeni has made his last start for the national team. Jones and eventually a healthy Edu will be good for the holding role and Bradley will be able to get forward more often. Jones is also a bit of a fiery guy, a hardass, which is something that the national team needs imo.

hxxp://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=654395&sec=worldcup2010&cc=5901

[BishopMVP]

Amazing. Now go out and get Edgar Castillo for LB too.

[Big Fo]

The first match of the Confederations Cup (South Africa 0-0 Iraq) just ended, it might have been one of the worst games I've ever seen.

The best moment was a South African player blocking what would have been his teammate's winner on the line.

I wish the US were in this group, New Zealand are meant to be worse than these two teams. Four of the five best teams are in one group, FIFA is either run by morons or the draw was random.

[Big Fo]

4-0 Spain after 25 minutes. Why couldn't we have been drawn against this awful team?

New Zealand would not make the hexagonal in CONCACAF and I'm not even sure they'd make the second round. Oceania shouldn't even be a region, they should tack it onto Asia and then split that confederation into Middle East/former USSR and East Asia/South Asia/Oceania.

[DaddyTorgo]

the fact that oceania is a region is almost criminal. it's a waste of WC slots

[Big Fo]

Well they only have .5 slots and are close to a dead certainty to lose that playoff game but they still take up a place at the Confederations Cup and during the Club World Championship for little reason.

New Zealand has four million people and rugby is the dominant sport there. The number two power in the region is Fiji. It just makes no sense.

[Icy]

Pretty boring game between Spain and New Zealand besides the first 25 minutes.

[Big Fo]

Brazil - Egypt was pretty awesome (4-3 win in the last few minutes for Brazil)

Egypt played quite well, they might hand our boys a beatdown in a few days.

USA - Italy starts in a few hours.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

US down a man, up 1-0 in 41st minute.

[Big Fo]

That was a horrendous decision for the ref to send Clark off there. The team has played pretty well though, Italy's best chance (they didn't have many) came from a set piece and the team is passing the ball pretty well. Altidore and Bradley each had decent chances that they should have done much better with.

[DaddyTorgo]

gah - i will have to watch the replay tonight. i didn't wake up early enough to have time to set the DVR. leaving this thread now.

[Cringer]

It was a red card I guess. I would have preferred yellow, but red is not a stretch. He was beaten on the play easily, and he had the spikes sticking out. Go USMNT!

[3ric]

In case anyone is watching the Spain-Germany U21 game, it's being played in my hometown stadium, where I have season tickets. Pretty cool.

[SirFozzie]

@$&$&@$%&)@%&)@%&@%&@*%&@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone but the traitor.

[Big Fo]

Benedict Arnold scored a beauty for Italy.

Once he said he wouldn't represent the US Dubya should have sent his family to Gitmo

Cringer that was not a red, if it was the Grosso should have gotten one for the elbow a minute later. Both were yellows.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Benedict Arnold scored a beauty for Italy.

Once he said he wouldn't represent the US Dubya should have sent his family to Gitmo

Cringer that was not a red, if it was the Grosso should have gotten one for the elbow a minute later. Both were yellows.

It can be debated I guess. It was a dangerous play by Clark, a red is not a stretch to me.

[Cringer]

Catching up with the 2nd half, since I had to leave right after Italy tied it up. Crap subs. I can't stand Bradley's subs for the most part. Mainly Beasley and Kljestan, Davies isn't a problem. Adu and Torres must have killed Bradley's dogs, they haven't seen a minute in these last two matches. I would prefer Aud and Torres over those two most of the time. Bradley though, well he coached them before, he has to stick with his guys it seems.

[DaddyTorgo]

wow - wtf? how was that a straight-red?

[sovereignstar]

Rio Ferdinand just wanted to check in and say hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii (not to be confused with 'hi')

[Big Fo]

He looks better in that outfit than Richard Dunne would.

Liverpool are close to signing Portsmouth's Glen Johnson for a ridiculous £18.5m

[DaddyTorgo]

did Rio come out of the closet or something?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Catching up with the 2nd half, since I had to leave right after Italy tied it up. Crap subs. I can't stand Bradley's subs for the most part. Mainly Beasley and Kljestan, Davies isn't a problem. Adu and Torres must have killed Bradley's dogs, they haven't seen a minute in these last two matches. I would prefer Adu and Torres over those two most of the time. Bradley though, well he coached them before, he has to stick with his guys it seems.

I'm not sure who said it first, but if Giuseppe Rossi had chosen the US, he'd be on our bench because he is too small and doesn't work hard enough on defense.

[Big Fo]

smh at Beasley

Don't you know how to trap the fucking ball? That was shockingly bad.

[Big Fo]

That was a lot worse than the Italy game. At least we hit the crossbar twice in the second half. Hopefully we can scrape a draw against Egypt and avoid finishing dead last.

[DaddyTorgo]

heh

we're pathetic

[BishopMVP]

On the bright side, both Egypt games have been really entertaining back and forth affairs, and Jonathan Spector looks to have locked down the RB spot when healthy (knock on wood).

On the other hand, there's the remainder of the US displays so far. But apparently both Brazil and Italy are good teams and we got red cards, so you can't assign any blame. F that - Bob Bradley is a terrible coach (how do you leave a sub on the bench when you're down 3-0 with 10 men in a tournament that's supposed to be about figuring out which new players work for 2010), DMB sucks at this point, Kljestan has been consistently terrible, I'll be kind and say Dempsey looks drained from a long season, and somehow Adu and Torres (who plays D-mid for Pachuca) are supposedly defensive liabilities for a team that has given up 6 goals in 2 games and is completely unable to hold possession. Fire Bradley and hire Klinsmann, replace him with one of the 2 MLS coaches that consistently beat him (Nicol, Kinnear), or promote Rongen from the U-20's.

EDIT - Oh, and Conor Casey. It's bad enough you're on the field to begin with, and anyone who reads what I write knows I'm not exactly a fan of judging forwards by their defensive effort and ability, but at least make an effort to look like you're trying.

[Big Fo]

If the US beats Egypt by three and Brazil beats Italy by four the US will make the next round. More realistically I'm hoping for a draw just to get something out of the tournament and at least do better than New Zealand.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

On the bright side, both Egypt games have been really entertaining back and forth affairs, and Jonathan Spector looks to have locked down the RB spot when healthy (knock on wood).

On the other hand, there's the remainder of the US displays so far. But apparently both Brazil and Italy are good teams and we got red cards, so you can't assign any blame. F that - Bob Bradley is a terrible coach (how do you leave a sub on the bench when you're down 3-0 with 10 men in a tournament that's supposed to be about figuring out which new players work for 2010), DMB sucks at this point, Kljestan has been consistently terrible, I'll be kind and say Dempsey looks drained from a long season, and somehow Adu and Torres (who plays D-mid for Pachuca) are supposedly defensive liabilities for a team that has given up 6 goals in 2 games and is completely unable to hold possession. Fire Bradley and hire Klinsmann, replace him with one of the 2 MLS coaches that consistently beat him (Nicol, Kinnear), or promote Rongen from the U-20's.

EDIT - Oh, and Conor Casey. It's bad enough you're on the field to begin with, and anyone who reads what I write knows I'm not exactly a fan of judging forwards by their defensive effort and ability, but at least make an effort to look like you're trying.

re: Adu -- I haven't seen him play in person so i can't make any judgements myself. On the ball he is unquestionably very talented, but according to a poster on bigsoccer who is (allegedly) the US scout for a large european team (and agreed with by others who have seen him play), off-the-ball Adu is VERY subpar, and that is what is keeping him on the bench. As this guy put it "he might be on the ball for 2 minutes a game total time. if you have him on the field it's like playing with 10 men for the other 88 minutes."

Beasley is all worn out. Not sure he'll ever recover and be what he used to be...I think he very well might be toast.

Sasha K has really dissapointed IMO when given the opportunity to step it up against difficult opponents. His first-touch seems to suffer and his decision-making is much worse when under pressure. He might be a "CONCACAAF-only" type player.

Dempsey I think suffers from trying to do too much. Someone on bigsoccer also pointed out that he doesn't combine well with Landon, and theorized that maybe it's because Dempsey feels like he's "better than everyone else" due to him being the latest big-money-transfer or something.

I'd like to see Torres and Benny Feilheiber get a look. Ricardo Clark hasn't lost his shot IMO either.

Love to see Steve Nicol or Kinnear, or even giving Rongen another shot.

[Cringer]

I am very happy to have missed this game, very happy.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

re: Adu -- I haven't seen him play in person so i can't make any judgements myself. On the ball he is unquestionably very talented, but according to a poster on bigsoccer who is (allegedly) the US scout for a large european team (and agreed with by others who have seen him play), off-the-ball Adu is VERY subpar, and that is what is keeping him on the bench. As this guy put it "he might be on the ball for 2 minutes a game total time. if you have him on the field it's like playing with 10 men for the other 88 minutes."

Even assuming that guy's not a complete poseur, as another poster put it - "he's gonna be a defensive liability for 88 minutes if you only plan to have the ball for 2 minutes a game and play defense for the other 88." Which seems to be our new plan - we've somehow regressed to 9 men in and long balls up to a target striker. I've seen him play against Spain for a half where we were equal to them, then come out and watch us be overrun. I've seen him come on against Argentina and be the most dangerous player on the field. At a certain point controlling possession is better for a defense than being a great tackler, and the stats up what my eyes tell me if you want to dig through that thread to find them. The US team scores more when he's in and allows fewer goals. You can dismiss youth games if you want, but he was consistently the best player on either side at the U-20's and Olympics, and that includes players like Bradley, Altidore, Pato, Babel etc.

PS - this whole argument about him being a defensive liability would carry a lot more weight if Feilhaber, Kljestan, Dempsey and Beasley hadn't all given away balls that led directly to goals in the last 2 games.

[Big Fo]

Tevez will officially be leaving Man Utd.

''Following contact received from Carlos Tevez's advisors last night, in advance of the deadline the club set for concluding negotiations, Manchester United announces that Carlos will not be signing a new contract with the club,'' said a statement released by United on Saturday morning.

''The club agreed to pay the option price of £25.5m and offered Carlos a five year contract which would have made him one of its highest paid players.

''Disappointingly however, his advisors informed the club that, despite the success he has enjoyed during one of the club's most successful periods, he does not wish to continue playing for Manchester United.

''The club would like to thank Carlos for his services over the last two seasons and wishes him good luck for the future.''

£25.5m and £95k p/w for five years is too much for what he offered last season anyway.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Argentina and be the most dangerous player on the field. At a certain point controlling possession is better for a defense than being a great tackler, and the stats up what my eyes tell me if you want to dig through that thread to find them. The US team scores more when he's in and allows fewer goals. You can dismiss youth games if you want, but he was consistently the best player on either side at the U-20's and Olympics, and that includes players like Bradley, Altidore, Pato, Babel etc.

PS - this whole argument about him being a defensive liability would carry a lot more weight if Feilhaber, Kljestan, Dempsey and Beasley hadn't all given away balls that led directly to goals in the last 2 games.

no argument on these points

[MJ4H]

No posts about US miraculously about to advance in the Confederations Cup?

edit: advances, finishing 2nd in the group to Brazil by tie-breaker (goals scored) over Italy.