2011 NCAA Basketball Tournament Thread - Page 11

Young Drachma · 03-19-2011, 08:23 PM

Congrats to Butler.

Radii · 03-19-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Didn't need to be in the act of shooting, it was double bonus.

woulda been 3 FTs if he was considered to be shooting.

Lathum · 03-19-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I hope someone in the studio has the courage to say how badly the ending of this game was butchered by the ref.

It will be Barkley if anyone

sterlingice · 03-19-2011, 08:24 PM

We should be watching OT right now

SI

Young Drachma · 03-19-2011, 08:25 PM

Classy for Butler's head coach for admitting that. But he's a classy guy.

RainMaker · 03-19-2011, 08:26 PM

How was it butchered by the refs? Foul is a foul. Both teams made incredibly stupid plays.

sterlingice · 03-19-2011, 08:27 PM

I'm sure they're celebrating downtown here tonight

Still, we should be watching OT as neither of those fouls should have been called.

SI

muns · 03-19-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfc22

This group of refs better not step back on the court the rest of the year.

This is just a horrendous job.

I am totally dumbfounded....... While I truley think that Jamie fucked up big time by not putting someone on mack strickly so he didnt even touch the ball if he gave it up or wasnt in his hands to begin with....... but those refs decided a game and as a college coach that is one of the toughest things to ever try to explain to your kids......

muns · 03-19-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Classy for Butler's head coach for admitting that. But he's a classy guy.

+ 500

Atocep · 03-19-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How was it butchered by the refs? Foul is a foul. Both teams made incredibly stupid plays.

I think it was butchered by Jamie Dixon more than anyone. You pull your guys out of the lane after the 1st freethrow goes in.

I'm a big believer in a game being called the same way from the first minute to the last. As shitty as it is to have a foul called 92 feet from the basket like that, there's no reason to contest that shot and it was a foul.

sterlingice · 03-19-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How was it butchered by the refs? Foul is a foul. Both teams made incredibly stupid plays.

While true- is all contact a foul? I would agree so but it would completely change how the game of basketball is played.

You can't say "a foul is a foul" because, let's be honest- there's always a lot of judgment involved in officiating in basketball, unfortunately. We readily accept that not all contact is a foul, which is what the rulebook says- so it leaves a lot of room open to interpretation.

SI

molson · 03-19-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

This is the craziest ending to a game I have ever seen. Pitt has to be one of the dumbest teams I have ever seen.

+1....watching this game in vegas so I don't have the greatest perception, but what I saw was a dumbass pitt player cost me a big parlay on a bunch of money lines. It was just DUMB

Commo_Soldier · 03-19-2011, 08:29 PM

Well, that settles it, not picking Pitt to do much of anything in the tournament for quite awhile.

jbergey22 · 03-19-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How was it butchered by the refs? Foul is a foul. Both teams made incredibly stupid plays.

They had an out when Pitt missed the free throw. Let the game be decided on the court in overtime and not on some stupid plays with less than 1 second left.

Butler wasnt making that shot at the end of the game so why just give them the game?

LloydLungs · 03-19-2011, 08:30 PM

Don't understand the complaints about the refs. Two extremely stupid plays by Butler and Pitt back to back. Even if they weren't technically fouls (though I thought they were), the players should have gotten fouls just for being stupid. Why are you bumping up against a guy who's going to have to take a halfcourt heave? Why are you hounding a guy on a rebound who can't do anything to hurt you? Just shockingly dumb.

muns · 03-19-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How was it butchered by the refs? Foul is a foul. Both teams made incredibly stupid plays.

No and Unfortunately thats why we have dumb shit that happens in games cause refs also believe that....... You don't call a foul 99 feet away from the basketball no matter who the team is if it is going to decide a game...... PERIOD........ You let the kids decide on the court who is going to win, not some douche with a whistle in his or her mouth......

whomario · 03-19-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns

but those refs decided a game and as a college coach that is one of the toughest things to ever try to explain to your kids......

how is that ? Butler was allready up by 1 (on a freaking brilliant play) before both teams sort of got bailed out by those calls respectively.

Atocep · 03-19-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns

I am totally dumbfounded....... While I truley think that Jamie fucked up big time by not putting someone on mack strickly so he didnt even touch the ball if he gave it up or wasnt in his hands to begin with....... but those refs decided a game and as a college coach that is one of the toughest things to ever try to explain to your kids......

I don't agree with the line of thinking that the refs decided the game at the end. The Pitt player decided the game when he committed an obvious foul. Basketball becomes the equivalent of professional wrestling when refs turn their heads on calls like that regardless of how tough of a call it is to make.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-19-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns

refs decided a game and as a college coach that is one of the toughest things to ever try to explain to your kids......

Why? The same thing happens at every level those kids have ever played, at least as frequently.

{neither here nor there on the game, the call(s), or either team, just not seeing any difference in explaining it to a college student that has almost certainly been through the same thing before unless they were among the few who never lost in high school or something}

RainMaker · 03-19-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns

No and Unfortunately thats why we have dumb shit that happens in games cause refs also believe that....... You don't call a foul 99 feet away from the basketball no matter who the team is if it is going to decide a game...... PERIOD........ You let the kids decide on the court who is going to win, not some douche with a whistle in his or her mouth......

The refs didn't decide the game, the players who made stupid fouls did.

Radii · 03-19-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Still, we should be watching OT as neither of those fouls should have been called.

If neither foul is called Butler wins by 1

JonInMiddleGA · 03-19-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns

....... You don't call a foul 99 feet away from the basketball no matter who the team is if it is going to decide a game...... PERIOD........

Unless of course:
1) It's a foul
2) You have any integrity
3) Are doing your job

Passacaglia · 03-19-2011, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario

Matt Howard is awesome

in the act would have been 3 FTs though

Ah I see -- I read that a few minutes after obviously.

SirFozzie · 03-19-2011, 08:33 PM

The first one, blah, I guess.. the second one was a clear foul, he had a hold of the arm. Stupid. stupid, stupid by the pitt player.

Lathum · 03-19-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep

I think it was butchered by Jamie Dixon more than anyone. You pull your guys out of the lane after the 1st freethrow goes in.

.

Don't forget about Pitt letting the shot clock run down with 9 seconds left in the game up buy one, then doing a dreadful job of defending the inbounds play.

Radii · 03-19-2011, 08:34 PM

And yeah, great play by Butler to get the bucket w/ 2 seconds left to go up 70-69.

sterlingice · 03-19-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Don't understand the complaints about the refs. Two extremely stupid plays by Butler and Pitt back to back. Even if they weren't technically fouls (though I thought they were), the players should have gotten fouls just for being stupid. Why are you bumping up against a guy who's going to have to take a halfcourt heave? Why are you hounding a guy on a rebound who can't do anything to hurt you? Just shockingly dumb.

No, you can't just give fouls for being incredibly stupid

SI

Dr. Sak · 03-19-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns

No and Unfortunately thats why we have dumb shit that happens in games cause refs also believe that....... You don't call a foul 99 feet away from the basketball no matter who the team is if it is going to decide a game...... PERIOD........ You let the kids decide on the court who is going to win, not some douche with a whistle in his or her mouth......

I totally 100% disagree with you. If that is a foul at the beginning of the game it is a foul with 1 second to go in the game. Don't give me that garbage that the refs decided the game...the players decided that game. The players fouled...not the refs.

They were both fouls Jeremy, take a step back calm down and you will see it.

I would love to shake those refs hands for having the balls to make those two correct calls at that junction of the game.

hoopsguy · 03-19-2011, 08:34 PM

Well, Seth Davis isn't going to be the guy to go after the refs.

I thought the call on Mack was atrocious - he had every right to go to the basketball in that spot and from the point Gibbs picked it up he ran with him stride for stride.

The one at the end was a foul, but I'm stunned that it would be called in that spot as anything other than a makeup call ... which is one of the things I already despise about basketball officiating.

LloydLungs · 03-19-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm sure they're celebrating downtown here tonight

Still, we should be watching OT as neither of those fouls should have been called.

SI

Wait, how does that figure? If neither foul was called, Butler would have won by 1 unless Pitt made the halfcourt heave.

whomario · 03-19-2011, 08:35 PM

Fredette just tried a 35 footer with 20 on the shotclock

Young Drachma · 03-19-2011, 08:36 PM

Pitt losing pretty much seals up my Facebook bracket win, so I was happy to see Butler advance anyway...even though I didn't pick them to the Sweet 16, I didn't have Pitt in the final four.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-19-2011, 08:36 PM

That's a Pitt team that lost to Tennessee in a de facto home game earlier this year. Them losing to anyone, anytime, any place, isn't really unbelievable to me.

sterlingice · 03-19-2011, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

If neither foul is called Butler wins by 1

You're right- my bad. Sorry, it's been 15 minutes of foul shots and tv timeouts since then so I forgot that :P

It should have gone down to the shot that Pitt was going to try and take...

Anyways, I do agree with RainMaker's comments earlier today- wow, that must be painful to go to in person with as much downtime as there is. Not only that, but it does make it tough to be a team like Arkansas in the 90s or Mizzou now where you rely on trying to wear down your opponents as with this much time between plays, it will never happen.

SI

Radii · 03-19-2011, 08:37 PM

Who was that going to the commercial break? "why would you want to be a coach? don't be a coach, go be a Chilean Miner or something." really?

Young Drachma · 03-19-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario

Fredette just tried a 35 footer with 20 on the shotclock

Teach me how to Jimmer?

jbergey22 · 03-19-2011, 08:38 PM

Oh well. To bad a brilliant game by Butler has to be decided in that way but congrats to them. Well coached team.

LloydLungs · 03-19-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

No, you can't just give fouls for being incredibly stupid

SI

I am aware.

Just saying I'm not going to lament how the game finished just because the players' decisions to do dumb things had consequences. Two offsetting retarded fouls, each team got a point out of it. Crazy finish.

Young Drachma · 03-19-2011, 08:38 PM

Gonzaga is getting schooled. WTF man.

sterlingice · 03-19-2011, 08:40 PM

Well, BYU-Gonzaga is pretty much done. Onto Wisconsin v K-State

SI

Passacaglia · 03-19-2011, 08:40 PM

I'm giving you all fouls for being stupid.

SirFozzie · 03-19-2011, 08:40 PM

BYU best be careful.. they could have more Honor Code violations with all the yapping

Radii · 03-19-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's a Pitt team that lost to Tennessee in a de facto home game earlier this year. Them losing to anyone, anytime, any place, isn't really unbelievable to me.

Quoting myself from selection sunday:

Quote:

I don't follow them close or anything but they are near, maybe at the top of the list of teams I always pick to exit a round or two earlier than expected in all my brackets just b/c they are pitt.

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread

Young Drachma · 03-19-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

BYU best be careful.. they could have more Honor Code violations with all the yapping

Nah, yapping is okay if you're married.

It's the pre-marital kind that gets you in trouble.

Buccaneer · 03-19-2011, 08:47 PM

Good day with Pitt and WVU losing (even if one of them was to f'n UK). Awesome ending to the Butler game - what a rollercoaster.

muns · 03-19-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I totally 100% disagree with you. If that is a foul at the beginning of the game it is a foul with 1 second to go in the game. Don't give me that garbage that the refs decided the game...the players decided that game. The players fouled...not the refs.

They were both fouls Jeremy, take a step back calm down and you will see it.

I would love to shake those refs hands for having the balls to make those two correct calls at that junction of the game.

I'm going to choose to respond back to you. I'm calm, like I said earlier I think Jamie messed that game up pretty bad with his "D" on mack but I was bitching about the refs for the last 10 mins of the game because none of the fouls they were calling were consistant...... Both teams and I believe I even made a post earlier on in the game (maybe 5 mins left) saying the Butler were getting fouls called on them and they were not real fouls.....

I for one don't like to bitch about refs, they do a job that if we are being honest 90% of us don't/cant do but I am sorry you don't make EITHER one of those calls, and you let the kids win the game...... I just don't agree with your assessment that the refs didn't decide that game..... If neither of those calls get made so be it, and id be questioning the earlier ones, but I wouldn't be this upset or adamant about how stupid that crap was at the end of the game....

LloydLungs · 03-19-2011, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

I don't follow them close or anything but they are near, maybe at the top of the list of teams I always pick to exit a round or two earlier than expected in all my brackets just b/c they are pitt.

From the Onion's breakdown of Pitt earlier this week:

"Strengths: This tough defensive team won't get blown out when they lose early in the tournament."

Mustang · 03-19-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns

I for one don't like to bitch about refs, they do a job that if we are being honest 90% of us don't/cant do but I am sorry you don't make EITHER one of those calls, and you let the kids win the game......

If you want the kids to decide the game, why have refs at all. A call with 10:51 seconds left that lead to 2 free throws could decide the game just as much as that.

I watch basketball very little and even I know that was stupid by Butler and Pitt at the end. That the refs are supposed to call this because of some unwritten rule that the kids should decide it is garbage.

muns · 03-19-2011, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Why? The same thing happens at every level those kids have ever played, at least as frequently.

{neither here nor there on the game, the call(s), or either team, just not seeing any difference in explaining it to a college student that has almost certainly been through the same thing before unless they were among the few who never lost in high school or something}

Because at the College level its elevated........ At the grade school/ middle school level you get to move up... At the high school level it starts to get hard as most of those kids wont go on to the College level so I guess actually you can apply it there as well, but they can still dream of trying to walk on at a D-3school at least..... At the college level, most seniors are done even on the D-1 level and thats why its different and harder..... Most arent going to go pro and their basketball career just came to and end....

Dr. Sak · 03-19-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns

I
I for one don't like to bitch about refs, they do a job that if we are being honest 90% of us don't/cant do but I am sorry you don't make EITHER one of those calls, and you let the kids win the game...... I just don't agree with your assessment that the refs didn't decide that game..... If neither of those calls get made so be it, and id be questioning the earlier ones, but I wouldn't be this upset or adamant about how stupid that crap was at the end of the game....

Let's just look at each one separately...the first foul the Pitt guy has the ball and is making his way up the sideline and the Butler guy "checks" him out of bounds. If the Butler guy doesn't not do that, the Pitt player gets inside the half court line and gets a better look. Therefore, the contact created a disadvantage for the offense.

The second one what just a hack job on the arm. Plain stupid by the Pitt guy since the play was 90 feet away from Butler's basket. However, are you saying that if that happens in the first minute of the game that shouldn't be a foul too? If so then I could understand your side better. But again, I firmly believe (and have been taught) that if it is foul early, it is a foul late.

You keep saying you let the kids decide the games. The kids did decide the game. There is nothing in the rule book stating you call the games different in the first half than in the second half. That isn't fair to the players. You see it happen all the time and people/coaches/players complain. Both players whether they be on Butler or Pitt fouled and the refs did their job making the call.

I know we aren't going to agree on this, and I know I am a ref apologist which probably pisses a lot of people off around here. I am just trying to give a different perspective. And you better hope you never see me in stripes while you are head coach

03-19-2011, 08:23 PM	#501
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Congrats to Butler. __________________ Current Dynasty:The Zenith of Professional Basketball Careers (FBPB/FBCB) FBCB / FPB3 Mods

03-19-2011, 08:24 PM	#504
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	We should be watching OT right now SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 03-19-2011 at 08:25 PM.

03-19-2011, 08:27 PM	#507
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	I'm sure they're celebrating downtown here tonight Still, we should be watching OT as neither of those fouls should have been called. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

03-19-2011, 08:29 PM	#513
Commo_Soldier College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: JBLM, WA	Well, that settles it, not picking Pitt to do much of anything in the tournament for quite awhile. __________________ I killed a wolf and I liked it.

03-19-2011, 08:30 PM	#515
LloydLungs College Prospect Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ponchatoula, LA	Don't understand the complaints about the refs. Two extremely stupid plays by Butler and Pitt back to back. Even if they weren't technically fouls (though I thought they were), the players should have gotten fouls just for being stupid. Why are you bumping up against a guy who's going to have to take a halfcourt heave? Why are you hounding a guy on a rebound who can't do anything to hurt you? Just shockingly dumb. Last edited by LloydLungs : 03-19-2011 at 08:30 PM.

03-19-2011, 08:25 PM	#505
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Classy for Butler's head coach for admitting that. But he's a classy guy.

03-19-2011, 08:26 PM	#506
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	How was it butchered by the refs? Foul is a foul. Both teams made incredibly stupid plays.

03-19-2011, 08:33 PM	#524
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	The first one, blah, I guess.. the second one was a clear foul, he had a hold of the arm. Stupid. stupid, stupid by the pitt player. __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

03-19-2011, 08:34 PM	#526
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	And yeah, great play by Butler to get the bucket w/ 2 seconds left to go up 70-69.

03-19-2011, 08:34 PM	#529
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Well, Seth Davis isn't going to be the guy to go after the refs. I thought the call on Mack was atrocious - he had every right to go to the basketball in that spot and from the point Gibbs picked it up he ran with him stride for stride. The one at the end was a foul, but I'm stunned that it would be called in that spot as anything other than a makeup call ... which is one of the things I already despise about basketball officiating.

03-19-2011, 08:35 PM	#531
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Fredette just tried a 35 footer with 20 on the shotclock Last edited by whomario : 03-19-2011 at 08:35 PM.

03-19-2011, 08:36 PM	#532
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Pitt losing pretty much seals up my Facebook bracket win, so I was happy to see Butler advance anyway...even though I didn't pick them to the Sweet 16, I didn't have Pitt in the final four.

03-19-2011, 08:36 PM	#533
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	That's a Pitt team that lost to Tennessee in a de facto home game earlier this year. Them losing to anyone, anytime, any place, isn't really unbelievable to me. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

03-19-2011, 08:37 PM	#535
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Who was that going to the commercial break? "why would you want to be a coach? don't be a coach, go be a Chilean Miner or something." really?

03-19-2011, 08:38 PM	#537
jbergey22 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota	Oh well. To bad a brilliant game by Butler has to be decided in that way but congrats to them. Well coached team. Last edited by jbergey22 : 03-19-2011 at 08:40 PM.

03-19-2011, 08:38 PM	#539
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Gonzaga is getting schooled. WTF man.

03-19-2011, 08:40 PM	#540
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Well, BYU-Gonzaga is pretty much done. Onto Wisconsin v K-State SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

03-19-2011, 08:40 PM	#541
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	I'm giving you all fouls for being stupid.

03-19-2011, 08:40 PM	#542
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	BYU best be careful.. they could have more Honor Code violations with all the yapping __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

03-19-2011, 08:47 PM	#545
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Good day with Pitt and WVU losing (even if one of them was to f'n UK). Awesome ending to the Butler game - what a rollercoaster.

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