2015 NBA Offseason Thread

[lungs]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Greg Monroe just chose the Bucks over the Knicks and Lakers.

Things I would have never said 2 years ago. A player thinks the Bucks are the better choice.

Maybe he is banking on the Bucks moving to Seattle

[Suicane75]

So is this dude the Sixers got from the Kings any good?

[Arles]

Don't know if you guys have ESPN insider, but Kevin Pelton just wrote an interesting article about the Chandler signing for the Suns:

NBA - Tyson Chandler signing means Phoenix Suns want to win now

There's no question Chandler fits that bill when healthy. His 14-year career has featured a largely unpredictable series of disappointing, injury-plagued seasons mixed with healthy, productive ones. After missing a combined 43 games due to injury his last two seasons with the New York Knicks, Chandler played all but seven in Dallas, a major reason he was so much more effective.

That's why the best aspect of the move might be Chandler going from one highly regarded athletic training staff to another. In the six years I've been tracking injury data, the Mavericks have lost the fifth-fewest games to injury. During that span, Phoenix has lost the fewest, and the Suns' training staff has succeeded in keeping aging, injury-prone veterans on the court. And with Len as a backup, Phoenix can limit Chandler's minutes, as Dallas did last season.

Though the Suns can still expect a little regression from Chandler given his age, ESPN's real plus-minus projects him as worth about seven wins above replacement (WAR) in 2015-16. Add Len, and Phoenix could get 10 WAR from the position, which provided about three WAR last season.

Thanks to that upgrade, a preliminary RPM projection shows the Suns as about a 46-win team next season. That would probably be enough to claim a low playoff seed in the Western Conference, though Phoenix will face stiff competition.

The wins Chandler provides on the court next season might not be his most important selling point. It's no coincidence the Phoenix front office wrapped up the deal in time to bring Chandler to a meeting with LaMarcus Aldridge. Specifically, playing next to a defensive-minded center like Chandler should appeal to Aldridge. More generally, adding a veteran in a win-now move helps legitimize the Suns as a destination for top free agents.

A source told ESPN's Marc Stein that Phoenix already had "moved into a contending position" to sign Aldridge. The Suns were once a major destination for free agents, and have the ability to become so again if they can also present stars a credible chance to contend.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

So is this dude the Sixers got from the Kings any good?

I liked him last year before he started playing.

Truthfully, I actually forgot about Stauskas. Drafted sorta high in what was supposed to be a really strong draft (may still be). Very good athlete, if I recall right. Other than that, I couldn't tell you, without getting off my lazy ass and looking him up haha.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

So is this dude the Sixers got from the Kings any good?

He can shoot it and out of college was considered to be someone who could handle the ball and facilitate from the wing position, but I wouldn't expect much.

[Arles]

I don't understand why the Sixers don't trade for Ty Lawson. He's basically on a 2-year, $25 million deal and would be a big help to their developing bigs. Denver is basically begging someone to take him for a first and cap space (something the Sixers have plenty of). I know the Sixers are terrified of actually putting a winning product on the court, but it's not like adding Lawson will remove them from the lottery. What it will do, though, is help accelerate the development of Noel and Okafor.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Greg Monroe just chose the Bucks over the Knicks and Lakers.

Things I would have never said 2 years ago. A player thinks the Bucks are the better choice.

Something must be done to help the teams in those markets attract players.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't understand why the Sixers don't trade for Ty Lawson. He's basically on a 2-year, $25 million deal and would be a big help to their developing bigs. Denver is basically begging someone to take him for a first and cap space (something the Sixers have plenty of). I know the Sixers are terrified of actually putting a winning product on the court, but it's not like adding Lawson will remove them from the lottery. What it will do, though, is help accelerate the development of Noel and Okafor.

That trade is going to be there over the next several months (and will probably come at less of a cost if Mudiay plays well during summer league or if Lawson becomes increasingly disgruntled). As the first 36 hours of free agency have shown, there's some crazy, unforeseeable stuff out there for the Sixers to do with cap space.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Something must be done to help the teams in those markets attract players.

May just be a case of Monroe understanding his own limitations. In a place like Milwaukee he can still be an average NBA starter and put up decent counting stats where as playing in a big market will expose his defensive limitations and will eventually demote him to a nice backup big. It is quite funny to me that the Knicks or Lakers cant even sign players like this right now.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

May just be a case of Monroe understanding his own limitations. In a place like Milwaukee he can still be an average NBA starter and put up decent counting stats where as playing in a big market will expose his defensive limitations and will eventually demote him to a nice backup big. It is quite funny to me that the Knicks or Lakers cant even sign players like this right now.

Question I would ask is if Monroe actually got full term max deals from NY and LA. It's possible they didn't regard him as such (and I would agree).

Monroe's a good scorer and rebounder, but he's not an irreplaceable sort.

[whomario]

Not big news, but interesting from my international POV Hawks sign 7´3 Center Walter Tavares (43rd pick last year) who had a pretty promising season, averaging 8.5/8 on 65% shooting with 2 blocks in 22 MPG over the course of 59 games (ACB and Eurocup). Lead both competitions in rebounding and blocked shots.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

He can shoot it and out of college was considered to be someone who could handle the ball and facilitate from the wing position, but I wouldn't expect much.

Well, I expect him to "break out" and be a viable fantasy basketball player now. Always known as a great spot-up shooter, people started talking themselves into him being an off the dribble threat and competent wing defender his last year in college. I didn't see it, but he'll get a chance to prove it one way or the other now, and his downside is viable bench shooter on a decent team.

I've also always kinda liked Carl Landry, but who knows if the Sixers will even try to keep him.

And, fwiw, the pick-swap's are kind of hilarious on their face. They're really just a hedge against Sacramento hitting the lottery in 2016/17, but smart play by Philly.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by nol

That trade is going to be there over the next several months (and will probably come at less of a cost if Mudiay plays well during summer league or if Lawson becomes increasingly disgruntled). As the first 36 hours of free agency have shown, there's some crazy, unforeseeable stuff out there for the Sixers to do with cap space.

I think there will be some interest in Lawson after the FA frenzy slows down. Outside of Rondo (who has his own ?s), there really isn't a legit starting PG available. Waiting until the season starts to make this kind of move is risky. The price isn't that high for Lawson now and won't change much by the season. But, there is the chance that a team like LA, Dallas or New York makes a deal for him if they strike out on their big targets.

[Arles]

It also sounds like Portland has joined the Lakers as being officially out of the Aldridge sweepstakes. Reports from Portland say the team has been told to move on and the Blazers just signed PF Ed Davis for 3-years and $20 mil:

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/in...says_lama.html

"Well, people don't realize we just went young," Hughes tells WTHI of Terre Haute, Indiana. "We didn't publicize it, but we lost LaMarcus Aldridge. It hasn't been declared yet, but I'm sure he won't come back. We will go young."

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

So is this dude the Sixers got from the Kings any good?

He was bad last season but almost all the rookies were. Philly runs an offense much more suited for his game and he could shoot in college. At worst Philly is taking a flyer on a lottery level talent.

[RainMaker]

Also for all the praise Hinkie gets for being forward thinking and making great deals, Milwaukee was in a similar spot a few years ago and are now one of the better teams in the conference.

[Arles]

Milwaukee, Phoenix, Atlanta, Toronto, Washington, Indiana, Houston, ... Many teams have been where the Sixers were 3 seasons ago and most have been able to field a much more competitive team in that 3rd/4th season of a rebuild.

[Arles]

Phoenix has traded Marcus Morris, Reggie Bullock and Danny Granger to Detroit for future picks, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) July 2, 2015

Looks like all 3 are for a 2020 2nd round pick from Detroit - and it saves Phoenix about $8.5 mil on the cap. The Suns now have $20 mil of cap space and can offer LMA the max without any future moves (and then do a S&T with Dallas for Chandler).

[Arles]

I still think the Spurs are the heavy favorites for LMA - and this salary dump isn't a bad idea long term if they don't land him. Bullock and Granger were expirings and Marcus wasn't really needed (but on a 4-year, $20 mil deal).

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

That trade is going to be there over the next several months (and will probably come at less of a cost if Mudiay plays well during summer league or if Lawson becomes increasingly disgruntled). As the first 36 hours of free agency have shown, there's some crazy, unforeseeable stuff out there for the Sixers to do with cap space.

Wrong, let me tell you what's going to happen.

The Sixers will put a shit product on the floor again by not signing any free agents. Then they will trade for Joe Johnson's expiring $24,894,863 contract to put them near the salary cap by throwing a pick to the Nets. If it's not this contract it will be David Lee's 15.5 expiring or Hibbert's 15.5 expiring deal.

They are at 34 million not counting the 12 million in dead cap with the McGee contract with 13 players. They will operate with this roster until the trade deadline when they pull off the same trick they have done the previous 2 seasons. I'm telling you right now, they will trade for Joe Johnson and he won't have to even move from his house.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also for all the praise Hinkie gets for being forward thinking and making great deals,

I'll give him this, he's got balls if he doesn't get canned. They have the possibility of at least 4 of their 6 1st round picks over the next 2 seasons being a lottery pick. Now he just has to hope it's not a 2009 type draft class.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by lungs

Maybe he is banking on the Bucks moving to Seattle

But we have this pretty new arena here in Las Vegas with nothing but a NHL team playing in...

The Bucks arena deal was not put in the states budget and this one is already paid for... Just saying...

[murrayyyyy]

Aldridge with a 2nd Lakers meeting... Kobe be like...

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

And, fwiw, the pick-swap's are kind of hilarious on their face. They're really just a hedge against Sacramento hitting the lottery in 2016/17, but smart play by Philly.

Leads to a potentially hilarious situation of Sacramento not wanting to hear their name drawn first.

"The first pick in the 2016 NBA draft goes to... the Sacramento Kings"

Initial applause and joy quickly drains as Hinkie walks up behind them and says..."I'll take that, thank you very much..."

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Aldridge with a 2nd Lakers meeting... Kobe be like...

I can see it already...

Mike Bresnahan of the LAT Times reports LMA disappointed Lakers didn't focus on outside opportunities at 2nd meeting.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Arles

Milwaukee, Phoenix, Atlanta, Toronto, Washington, Indiana, Houston, ... Many teams have been where the Sixers were 3 seasons ago and most have been able to field a much more competitive team in that 3rd/4th season of a rebuild.

That's because you only classify something as a "rebuild" if it's successful and arbitrarily set the start date 3 years before the team stopped sucking. Otherwise plenty of teams have been non-competitive for 3+ seasons in a row - it just comes down to drawing some imaginary line where people pretend a 28-win team with a payroll twice as high as Philadelphia's is so much more competitive and entertaining to watch. Nobody talks about the Bulls' rebuild post-Jordan or the Timberwolves' rebuild post-Garnett.

[whomario]

LaMarcus Aldridge Grants Lakers 2nd Meeting; Considering Visits - RealGM Wiretap

The second meeting will only involve Mitch Kupchak and Byron Scott and be strictly about basketball.

yeah, so ... That´ll end well ...

Seriously, what can the Lakers offer Aldridge ? (in terms of "strictly basketball") No competitive team without him, the roster is not a good fit for him, no strategy that is a good fit. Aldridge needs to be surrounded by players who know to a) shoot from 3, b) cut to the basket and c) move without the ball. He also needs a Rim Protector next to him to not wear him out. The Lakers ? No starting caliber Center, a rookie PG who might not even be a fulltime PG, no players who excel off the ball (and are actually good, sorry Wes Johnson) and not least of all a Coach who believes that the 3 is a fling that´ll go away (and it better !) which means no spacing for a player like Aldridge who operates so frequently in the midrange himself.

And that is not even taking into account everything that is wrong about Bryant at this stage of his career.


Meanwhile the Suns split up the assault-bros and traded Marcus along with Reggie Bullock and Danny Granger to the Pistons for a box of Donuts and a 2nd round pick in the next decade (yes, seriously). Win-Win for the Suns. Either they actually get Aldridge or they get flexibility for other things. Guess they might try to get rid of Markieff as well.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Wrong, let me tell you what's going to happen.

The Sixers will put a shit product on the floor again by not signing any free agents. Then they will trade for Joe Johnson's expiring $24,894,863 contract to put them near the salary cap by throwing a pick to the Nets. If it's not this contract it will be David Lee's 15.5 expiring or Hibbert's 15.5 expiring deal.

They are at 34 million not counting the 12 million in dead cap with the McGee contract with 13 players. They will operate with this roster until the trade deadline when they pull off the same trick they have done the previous 2 seasons. I'm telling you right now, they will trade for Joe Johnson and he won't have to even move from his house.

Let's back up a second.

Hinkie only wants assets; the Nets have nothing of value, same with the Knicks. He only accepts salary dumps for value.

The Sacro trade was an outright pillaging while also netting an 8th overall drafted player who will have no pressure to do much of anything but shoot; Sixers needed an SG, the worst that can happen is that he doesn't pan out.

The Kings since the draft have been a confusing dysfunctional mess. More so because in their environment they need to win now (the complete opposite of the Sixers); they want to improve through free agency, so they need to dump bad investments.

The key piece isn't Staukas; it's the option for the next two years to swap picks (Sacro's pick is a top ten protected otherwise it's a Bull property).

Lawson will not want to play or buy into the culture of playing on a team that is rebuilding (unless it's with George Karl). Plus the Nuggets haven't been able to move a guy who was packing his bags since draft night. Finally, he's a point guard, you can shake a tree and find one. Literally no value in Hinkie's plan.

There is no incentive to reach the ceiling of the salary floor none; and there is always going to be a team desperate enough to move draft picks or prospects in a dump but they have to meet certain parameters.

For the Sixers, I'm all aboard. I love what they are doing.

The added bonus and it may be a shock is that they don't need to tank this year, they have the Kings and Lakers doing quite much to be in that situation without doing it on purpose.

Finally, I'm disgusted with WIP sportsradio in Philly; they actually don't like Stauskus because he's Canadian. They also roped in Flyers players who aren't American either...they want Philly type players...I've never heard such stupidity.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by whomario

Meanwhile the Suns split up the assault-bros and traded Marcus along with Reggie Bullock and Danny Granger to the Pistons for a box of Donuts and a 2nd round pick in the next decade (yes, seriously). Win-Win for the Suns. Either they actually get Aldridge or they get flexibility for other things. Guess they might try to get rid of Markieff as well.

Word here in Phoenix is the Morris brothers were becoming disruptive together (and not just off the court). They weren't listening to the coaches and just stuck together (and alienated a lot of their teammates). So, even if LMA doesn't sign, the Suns feel they will be better with just Markieff and Chandler (instead of Marcus). Odds are if Aldridge does decide on Phoenix, Markieff will be offered in a S&T to either Portland or Dallas (for Chandler).

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Let's back up a second.

Hinkie only wants assets; the Nets have nothing of value, same with the Knicks. He only accepts salary dumps for value.

The Sacro trade was an outright pillaging while also netting an 8th overall drafted player who will have no pressure to do much of anything but shoot; Sixers needed an SG, the worst that can happen is that he doesn't pan out.

The Kings since the draft have been a confusing dysfunctional mess. More so because in their environment they need to win now (the complete opposite of the Sixers); they want to improve through free agency, so they need to dump bad investments.

The key piece isn't Staukas; it's the option for the next two years to swap picks (Sacro's pick is a top ten protected otherwise it's a Bull property).

Lawson will not want to play or buy into the culture of playing on a team that is rebuilding (unless it's with George Karl). Plus the Nuggets haven't been able to move a guy who was packing his bags since draft night. Finally, he's a point guard, you can shake a tree and find one. Literally no value in Hinkie's plan.

There is no incentive to reach the ceiling of the salary floor none; and there is always going to be a team desperate enough to move draft picks or prospects in a dump but they have to meet certain parameters.

For the Sixers, I'm all aboard. I love what they are doing.

The added bonus and it may be a shock is that they don't need to tank this year, they have the Kings and Lakers doing quite much to be in that situation without doing it on purpose.

Finally, I'm disgusted with WIP sportsradio in Philly; they actually don't like Stauskus because he's Canadian. They also roped in Flyers players who aren't American either...they want Philly type players...I've never heard such stupidity.

Yes, it should be seen as a reason not to tank, but they will tank as they have almost nothing at three positions and are more interested in assets than players.

I don't think the swap is worth much, as Philly will suck just as much or more than Sacramento. It's a lottery ticket in case the ping pong balls fall the right way, but it's more likely than not that both years the Sixers keep their own pick.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by nol

That's because you only classify something as a "rebuild" if it's successful and arbitrarily set the start date 3 years before the team stopped sucking. Otherwise plenty of teams have been non-competitive for 3+ seasons in a row - it just comes down to drawing some imaginary line where people pretend a 28-win team with a payroll twice as high as Philadelphia's is so much more competitive and entertaining to watch. Nobody talks about the Bulls' rebuild post-Jordan or the Timberwolves' rebuild post-Garnett.

I'm talking about this recent "salary cap era" and not the 1990s. It was a different set of rules then. If you look at the last 15 years, the NBA system is setup for a team to bottom out, then build back up in 2-3 seasons. Just look at the worst season in the last 15 for some of these teams and move forward from there. Toronto was a playoff team in the early 2000s and hit rock bottom in 2010-11 with 22 wins. 3 seasons later they won 48 games as the 3 seed. The Bucks drifted in and out of the playoffs for the mid 2000s, before hitting their rock bottom in 2013-14 with 15 wins. This will be their 3rd season since and they look to be a 4-5 seed in the East. The Hawks were 38-44 in 13-14 and now are a power in the East. Indiana had their worst year in 09-10 with 32 wins. In both 11-12 and 12-13, the Pacers were a 3 seed (winning 49 games in 12-13). OKC did it as well after moving from Seattle.

Heck, the Suns have done it twice. In 2003-04, they fell off a cliff and lost 29 games. The next year they won 62 games after a slate of good moves/trades. Then in 2012-13, they bottomed out again with 25 wins. This will be their 3rd season since and they appear to be a playoff team in the west this year with a young roster and a ton of assets.

Many teams have done this process - it's not hard. You use your 3 lottery picks to try to get 1-2 key pieces. You then supplement those drafted guys with 2-3 signings in FA of young players. Then, finally, you make a few trades to get the missing pieces or find better fits. So far, all Philly does is take on dead contracts in trades and put all their eggs in a basket of 4-5 lottery picks over 3-4 years. To me, that's just silly as you are ignoring the ability to get a guy like Millsap/Carroll (Atlanta) in FA, trade for players like Bledsoe (Phx) or Lowry (Tor) and use all your resources to improve the team. If any of the above teams had decided not to sign any FAs or try to improve their roster with trades of actual players (no just dead bodies), they would have still stunk 3-4 seasons later. If they would have drafted Euros and guys recovering from injuries, these teams wouldn't have been better 3 seasons later. You have to actually try to stink for 4-5 years and Philly is doing exactly that.

[cuervo72]

Man, Hinkie would CRUSH IT in the FOBL.

[Groundhog]

Jared Dudley to the Wizards for a 'protected 2nd round pick'... I don't recall ever seeing a protected 2nd rounder, but there you go. Good pick up for the Wizards.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Arles

I'm talking about this recent "salary cap era" and not the 1990s. It was a different set of rules then. If you look at the last 15 years, the NBA system is setup for a team to bottom out, then build back up in 2-3 seasons.

And the majority of the time they build back up to 40-ish wins and a first-round playoff loss before deciding to tear it down again. Not every single team has to operate that way. The core members of the Thunder and Grizzlies endured more than 2 consecutive sub-25 win seasons.

Originally Posted by Arles

Heck, the Suns have done it twice. In 2003-04, they fell off a cliff and lost 29 games. The next year they won 62 games after a slate of good moves/trades. Then in 2012-13, they bottomed out again with 25 wins. This will be their 3rd season since and they appear to be a playoff team in the west this year with a young roster and a ton of assets.

The Suns were a big-money team that imploded due to chemistry and injuries. They still had players on the roster to build around. You seem to think that Phoenix - with Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudemire, and Joe Johnson - was at a similar crossroads to Philly (Thad Young, Jrue Holiday, and Evan Turner) when those two groups of players are not even remotely comparable.

Originally Posted by Arles

If they would have drafted Euros and guys recovering from injuries, these teams wouldn't have been better 3 seasons later. You have to actually try to stink for 4-5 years and Philly is doing exactly that.

The converse is that if Philadelphia had signed the 40th-best player in the NBA for big bucks to be their "franchise player" along with a bunch of mid-level veterans, they definitely could have made the playoffs in the East (which is the extent of what about half the teams you mentioned have done).

You listed the Hawks as bottoming out in 13-14 lol. Al Horford (the franchise cornerstone they landed in 2007, the 8th consecutive year they were in the lottery) was injured and they still made the playoffs!

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Let's back up a second.

Hinkie only wants assets; the Nets have nothing of value, same with the Knicks. He only accepts salary dumps for value.

There is no incentive to reach the ceiling of the salary floor none; and there is always going to be a team desperate enough to move draft picks or prospects in a dump but they have to meet certain parameters.

Sorry, I'm under the assumption that the cap hold on McGee will be given up. Wouldn't it make sense to trade for Joe's contract near the deadline and actually only pay him 6 million out of your pocket instead of giving the reat of your team 24 million? You save 18 million with that trade. That's a big enough asset to me. They need to come within 90% of 67 million this coming year and are no where close. 24+34 puts you close to that number and it only costs you 6 million in actually money. That's the loophole the NBAPA is angry about.

[murrayyyyy]

The shortfall is based on the team salary as of the team’s last regular season game, but the distribution comes after the league’s audit in July The union informs the league of its proposed distribution within 30 days after the audit, and the team has 10 days after receiving the proposal to distribute the money. There is no set rule for how the money is distributed – the CBA just says “…pro rata or in accordance with such other formula as may be reasonably determined by the Players Association.”

So you trade for that big ass contract like I said and you only pay 25% of it but you get credit for the whole thing. Also the Nets may fall below the tax line with this (not 100% sure on this part).

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Jared Dudley to the Wizards for a 'protected 2nd round pick'... I don't recall ever seeing a protected 2nd rounder, but there you go. Good pick up for the Wizards.

Top 55protected or extinguished is used a lot.

[stevew]

Plus Murray they can get 3m in cash for that trade and hypothetically get Johnson to give up 1M which means 24M costs 2M

[miami_fan]

Wade back to the Heat. 1 year/ $20 mil.

[Groundhog]

So much cash being thrown around this FA season that I was mildly surprised to see Thomas Robinson had signed a min contract...

[murrayyyyy]

Is boozer a fa? Unless he is meeting teams at costco near my house in Vegas i would think he is meeting no one tonight.

[stevew]

He's meeting his shoe polish guy/hair stylist

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

So much cash being thrown around this FA season that I was mildly surprised to see Thomas Robinson had signed a min contract...

Absurd value

To put it in perspective he will make 1/15 of Tristan Thompson's salary.

[stevew]

Trola-

Can't imagine the Morrii are too happy to split up after they signed a team friendly extension.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

So much cash being thrown around this FA season that I was mildly surprised to see Thomas Robinson had signed a min contract...

He's never recovered from that firat summer league. Refused to run plays and tried to run the point because he was the man. I'm shocked anyone offered him.

[nol]

Originally Posted by stevew

Absurd value

To put it in perspective he will make 1/15 of Tristan Thompson's salary.

To put it in a different perspective the Denver Nuggets waived him this year and this is his 6th team in 3 seasons.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by nol

And the majority of the time they build back up to 40-ish wins and a first-round playoff loss before deciding to tear it down again. Not every single team has to operate that way. The core members of the Thunder and Grizzlies endured more than 2 consecutive sub-25 win seasons.

I said that the 3rd or 4th season is when the turnaround starts. And it's not just about winning titles. The Suns, Thunder, Hawks, Bucks and Pacers haven't won a thing - but they've had fun teams to watch and root for. This Philly idea that you are either the Spurs and Cavs or you shouldn't even try is awful for fans.

The Suns were a big-money team that imploded due to chemistry and injuries. They still had players on the roster to build around. You seem to think that Phoenix - with Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudemire, and Joe Johnson - was at a similar crossroads to Philly (Thad Young, Jrue Holiday, and Evan Turner) when those two groups of players are not even remotely comparable.

I'm pretty sure Philly can support the same salary level that Phoenix can. The Suns were also pretty bare the year before the rebuild (when they moved Starbury and Penny). They traded Nash for the pick to get Marion. They also traded two vets to Boston to get Joe Johnson. These are all moves that Philly could have made when Hinkie got there. He could have traded for real players like Bledsoe or Kyle Lowry, taken salary dumps involving real rotation players (ie, Dudley, Morris twins, Lawson, ...) and begin forming a real team of assets. But, for whatever reason, Philly is completely against bringing in any legit guards/forwards via trade/FA.

The converse is that if Philadelphia had signed the 40th-best player in the NBA for big bucks to be their "franchise player" along with a bunch of mid-level veterans, they definitely could have made the playoffs in the East (which is the extent of what about half the teams you mentioned have done).

That's how you start building. Houston, Milwaukee, Phoenix and others have done this. Then, when a legit FA is available (Howard, Aldridge, Monroe,...), you have an appealing team and a shot at landing them. That's how you improve in the NBA.

You listed the Hawks as bottoming out in 13-14 lol. Al Horford (the franchise cornerstone they landed in 2007, the 8th consecutive year they were in the lottery) was injured and they still made the playoffs!

Horford alone wasn't going to win anything. But they made some good trades, signed FAs and built that way. Houston did the same by using their cap space to gather assets for Harden. But, they also stayed competitive in the process. There's no way Harden goes to the Rockets and extends if they won 16 games the season before.

The key point is even if Philly has the assets to land an elite player like Aldridge, Durant, Kevin Love or someone else that comes available, no one is going to want to join up with a 16-20 win team. The Sixers need to become a respectable team with a future before anyone big is going to want to join. Right now, their only chance at success is making 4-5 homerun draft picks (like Golden State or OKC). The odds of that succeeding is very slim and you lack the other avenues to improve that other teams use.

[cuervo72]

So, what FA signings ended up helping the Sixers in the aughts when they were more respectable?

[Arles]

They traded for/signed Webber, Matt Barnes, Andre Miller, Elton Brand, and some smaller pieces like Donyell Marshall and Kareem Rush. They ended up having a solid run by putting pieces around the homegrown guys (Iggy, Lou Williams and Thad Young). There have been better "rebuild" examples - especially lately with the rules and cap the way it is. If Philly had tried to trade for/sign quality players the past few years to go with the young bigs, they could be in a better position to attract higher caliber players in FA.

[cuervo72]

If this is solid...yeesh. This is like rooting for a perennially 7-9 to 9-7 NFL team. In other words: no-man's land.

2010-11	NBA	Philadelphia 76ers*	41	41	.500	3	Lost E. Conf. 1st Rnd.
2009-10	NBA	Philadelphia 76ers	27	55	.329	4
2008-09	NBA	Philadelphia 76ers*	41	41	.500	2	Lost E. Conf. 1st Rnd.
2007-08	NBA	Philadelphia 76ers*	40	42	.488	3	Lost E. Conf. 1st Rnd.
2006-07	NBA	Philadelphia 76ers	35	47	.427	3
2005-06	NBA	Philadelphia 76ers	38	44	.463	2
2004-05	NBA	Philadelphia 76ers*	43	39	.524	2	Lost E. Conf. 1st Rnd.
2003-04	NBA	Philadelphia 76ers	33	49	.402	5
2002-03	NBA	Philadelphia 76ers*	48	34	.585	2	Lost E. Conf. Semis
2001-02	NBA	Philadelphia 76ers*	43	39	.524	4	Lost E. Conf. 1st Rnd.

edit: I mean...that's one playoff series win in a decade. That's not quite Wizards bad (they went what, 20 with zero at one point?) but that's pretty bad. And yeah, I left out the finals run of 2000-2001*, which came on the heels of seasons of 25, 24, 18, 22, 31 wins -- and was largely the result of drafting AI with the 1.1. So, tanking and getting lucky.

* yeah yeah, and a monster 35-31 strike-shortened year in 11-12. Woo.