Israeli-Hamas War (Oct 2023)

[Edward64]

Pretty quiet, no info on what the Israelis did or did not hit inside Iran in their limited strike. Maybe Israel was successful and sent a message, or maybe Israel wasn't successful. Would like to know what the (attempted) message was if any.

But hopefully, both countries have shot their wads and the things will settle down some.

Israel strikes Iran: What we know so far : NPR

A senior U.S. military official confirmed to NPR that the Israeli military had conducted missile strikes against Iran. But little else is known about the extent of the strikes and any potential damage, as both Israel and Iran appeared to downplay the attack on Friday morning — which analysts suggest points to an effort to de-escalate regional tensions.

"This is a very dangerous moment, but I think Israel has done about as intelligent a thing as they can do under this circumstance," Gen. Frank McKenzie, retired commander of U.S. Central Command, told Morning Edition. "No one knows exactly what happened and maybe, just maybe, we'll avoid any possibility of significant escalation as a result of it."

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Pretty quiet, no info on what the Israelis did or did not hit inside Iran in their limited strike. Maybe Israel was successful and sent a message, or maybe Israel wasn't successful. Would like to know what the (attempted) message was if any.

But hopefully, both countries have shot their wads and the things will settle down some.

Israel strikes Iran: What we know so far : NPR

Supposedly, the "message".

I wonder how many of those Israel has, maybe they should share some with Ukraine.

Report: Missile fired in alleged Israeli strike on Iran had tech to evade radar detection

Two Western officials tell The New York Times that a missile fired in an alleged Israeli strike on air defenses of the Natanz nuclear site had technology that enabled the weapon to evade Iran’s radar defense systems.

Two Iranian officials also tell the newspaper that Iran did not detect intrusions into its airspace yesterday, including drones, missiles or aircraft.

The outlet says that the warplane from which the missile was launched was “far from Israeli or Iranian airspace” and neither the jet nor the missile entered Jordanian airspace, in a calculated move to keep Amman out of any potential ramifications for the reprisal strike after it helped shoot down drones and missiles fired at Israel last weekend.

The alleged Israeli strike in Iran overnight Thursday-Friday went beyond the scope of several small drones described by Tehran, US media reported Friday.

The strike reportedly included at least one missile launched by Israeli Air Force warplanes that targeted an air defense radar site near Isfahan that was part of an array defending the nearby top-secret Natanz nuclear site.

Satellite imagery shows damage to the radar of an S-300 system at the Eighth Shekari Air Base in Isfahan, The New York Times says.

The report says the attack was deliberately designed to send a message of how a wider attack could look.

“Israel’s use of drones launched from inside Iran and a missile that it could not detect, the Western officials said, was intended to give Iran a taste of what a larger-scale attack might look like,” The New York Times writes. “The attack, they said, was calibrated to make Iran think twice before launching a direct attack on Israel in the future.”

[GrantDawg]

It does sound like it has chilled things off and might have ended this round of tit-for-tat. My buddy was worried about getting called back into to his government job, relaxed shortly after the strike.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Edward64]

I'm struggling with why Columbia would cancel all in-person classes. It seems unfair to the non-protesting students which I assume is the 80 vs 20 of the students.

I get safety is a concern but I'd think Columbia has the financial resources to do what needs to be done to (1) make the campus and attending classes safe (2) separate protesters and non-protesters (3) expel any protestors that "cross the line".

The key risk I see is off campus students who live in a rented house or something. But then that is primarily local law enforcement issue.


Googled and found their endowment below.

Columbia University: $13.64 Billion
Columbia's endowment rose 4.7% during FY 2023.

[Edward64]

Supposedly going to be ready next week.

Worries me a little that article didn't talk about who was going to be delivering the food. Pretty sad if whoever didn't have supply ships lined up ready to go.

Images show US military building floating pier for Gaza aid

The US military has published photos showing a floating pier being built in the Mediterranean Sea to help increase humanitarian aid deliveries to Gaza.

Logistics vessels and personnel can be seen assembling the pier from steel segments, next to a US Navy ship.

Costing about $320m (£255m), the pier and a causeway attached to the shore should be operational in a week.

"Right now, you're seeing construction of that floating, temporary pier, and then, you'll start to see construction of the causeway," US defence department spokeswoman Sabrina Singh told reporters in Washington on Monday.

"Eventually, that causeway will be... pushed into the coastline and secured by the [Israel Defense Forces]," she added.

The pier will be ready a week from now, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said on Tuesday.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Worries me a little that article didn't talk about who was going to be delivering the food.

We stopped funding the main group that delivers the aid and Israel has been killing the others.

[RainMaker]

Also Israeli settlers have been attacking aid trucks with no repercussions. So the whole thing is for show anyway.




[RainMaker]

This evening, Israeli residents set fire twice to the perimeter of the UNRWA Headquarters in occupied East Jerusalem.

This took place while UNRWA and other UN Agencies’ staff were on the compound.
While there were no casualties among our staff, the fire caused extensive damage… pic.twitter.com/ZqHFDNkiWC

— Philippe Lazzarini (@UNLazzarini) May 9, 2024

[RainMaker]

20 American doctors are trapped and in trouble in Gaza.


American Medical Missions Trapped in Gaza, Facing Death by Dehydration

[RainMaker]

And your tax dollars being smashed on the ground.

Israeli right wing activists blocked aid trucks which were on their way to Gaza today at the Tarqumiya crossing in the West Bank pic.twitter.com/fUd3ywuDbr

— Barak Ravid (@BarakRavid) May 13, 2024

[Edward64]

Story behind why the most recent ceasefire agreement fell apart. It wasn't Bibi nor Hamas nor Qataris, it was Egypt. WTF were they thinking.

Sources say they were ‘duped’ by Egypt changing ceasefire terms for Hamas | CNN Politics

The ceasefire agreement that Hamas ended up announcing on May 6 was not what the Qataris or the Americans believed had been submitted to Hamas for a potential final review, the sources said.

The changes made by Egyptian intelligence, the details of which have not been previously reported, led to a wave of anger and recrimination among officials from the US, Qatar and Israel, and left ceasefire talks at an impasse.

“We were all duped,” one of those sources told CNN.

The three sources familiar with the matter told CNN that a senior Egyptian intelligence official named Ahmed Abdel Khalek was responsible for making the changes. Abdel Khalek is a senior deputy to the Egyptian intelligence chief Abbas Kamel, who has been Burns’ counterpart in leading Egypt’s mediation in the ceasefire talks.

One source familiar with the negotiations said Abdel Khalek told the Israelis one thing and Hamas another. More of Hamas’ demands were inserted into the original framework that Israel had tacitly agreed to in order to secure Hamas’ approval, the source said. But the other mediators were not informed; nor, critically, were the Israelis.

“Hamas was telling their people, ‘We will have a deal in place tomorrow,’” the first source said.

“All sides were under the assumption the Egyptians provided the same document” that Israel had signed off on and the other mediators, the US and Qatar, were aware of, the person said.

After discovering the Egyptian freelancing, Qatari Prime Minister Mohammed bin Abdulrahman bin Jassim Al Thani informed Israel’s intelligence service Mossad that Egypt had acted alone, two of the sources told CNN.

[RainMaker]

$320 million

Due to logistical issues in distributing the aid coming in through the pier, US, Israeli and UN officials are discussing "alternative routes" for the safe movement of staff and cargo, Ryder adds

— Lara Seligman (@laraseligman) May 21, 2024

[Edward64]

I get the GOP wanting this, I’m surprised Dem Congressional leaders want this (and assume with Joe’s approval). Not sure what the Dems gain out of this unless Bibi was going to acquiesce to Joes 3 part peace plan which Bibi didn’t seem to go for.

The top four US congressional leaders on Friday formally invited Netanyahu to address a joint meeting of Congress.

“We join the State of Israel in your struggle against terror, especially as Hamas continues to hold American and Israeli citizens captive and its leaders jeopardize regional stability,” the letter from House Speaker Mike Johnson, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell reads.

“For this reason, on behalf of the bipartisan leadership of the United States House of Representatives and the United States Senate, we would like to invite you to address a Joint Meeting of Congress.”

[Edward64]

Pier is back up. < 2 week turn around period, you’d think it would have been quicker.

And in a separate statement Saturday night, CENTCOM said that it had resumed delivery of humanitarian aid via the pier, which had broken apart nearly two weeks ago in rough seas. Repairs were completed Friday and the pier was reconnected. CENTCOM said that about 1.1 million pounds of aid were delivered Saturday via the pier.

Nice on the rescue of 4 hostages.

In a predominantly Muslim country right now. Only 1 English speaking news channel … Al Jeezera.

AJ is the equivalent to Fox News. Fox News has the irreverent sarcasm with their ‘commentary shows’ but they do/did have Juan to try present ‘both sides’. No evidence of both sides in the AJ programming here.


EDIT: good to know AJ has the same problem as in the US with (oblivious) rambling guests, commentators, and the anchor having to cut in.

[albionmoonlight]

Pro-Palestine protestors vandalized statutes outside of the White House today.

Counter-productive destruction that serves only to alienate fence-sitting supporters.

[RainMaker]

I was on the fence on whether genocide was good or bad, but after seeing something vandalized, I have now decided genocide is good.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Pro-Palestine protestors vandalized statutes outside of the White House today.

Counter-productive destruction that serves only to alienate fence-sitting supporters.

A couple of months ago one of the local groups here blocked northbound i5 in Seattle for 4 hours. When they were told afterwards they blocked the exit for the Seattle Children's hospital they said they only blocked northbound, not southbound.

They also blocked the airport expressway here for several hours which forced people to get out and walk to the airport to catch their flights. It's pretty safe to assume non of those people are supporting their cause now.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I was on the fence on whether genocide was good or bad, but after seeing something vandalized, I have now decided genocide is good.

I'm sure Israel is going to stop the war now that the White House has been vandalized.

[RainMaker]

I feel like if a 45 minute delay on your evening commute makes you support the mass slaughter of women and children, you probably weren't going to be a reliable voice against genocide anyways.

This isn't a protest over a plastic bag ban. Whether you support or don't support a genocide is probably deeply baked into our moral character and not something easily swayed by an inconvenience.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Whether you support or don't support a genocide is probably deeply baked into our moral character and not something easily swayed by an inconvenience.

If that's the case, what's the point of the protests?

[EagleFan]

Can Netanyahu be locked up already for his war crimes? He's as bad as the idiotic christian nationalists we have in this country. Another example of how religion poisons the mind.

[Edward64]

If true, I hope he’s not counted in # ‘journalists’ killed.

A Gaza journalist who wrote for Al Jazeera was holding three hostages in his home with his family before he was killed by Israeli commandos during a rescue operation on Saturday, according to the Israeli military.

Abdallah Aljamal, who also worked as a spokesman for the Hamas-run labor ministry, was killed when special forces soldiers stormed his home in central Gaza and rescued hostages Almog Meir Jan, 21, Andri Kozlov, 27, and Shlomi Ziv, 41, the Israeli military said.

Aljamal’s death was originally reported by Rami Abdu, the head of the Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor, who claimed Israel Defense Forces soldiers raided the journalist’s home and killed him and several members of his family.

[Edward64]

Good news I guess. I suspect Israel isn't ready to make peace right now to allow this deal to happen ... but who knows in another 3-6 months (and with Gantz v Bibi power struggle). Still a ways to play out but like Joe's engagement.

Need to better understand what bolded section below means. "Encouraging" doesn't mean much, need something like "full normalization, establishing embassies, travel etc." between the 2 countries.

reuters.com

The Biden administration is close to finalizing a treaty with Saudi Arabia that would commit the U.S. to help defend the Gulf nation as part of a deal aimed at encouraging diplomatic ties between Riyadh and Israel, the Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday, citing U.S. and Saudi officials.

The possible deal, widely telegraphed by U.S. and other officials for weeks, is part of a wider package that would include a U.S.-Saudi civil nuclear pact, steps toward the establishment of a Palestinian state and an end to the war in Gaza, where months of ceasefire efforts have failed to bring peace.

In exchange for the U.S. commitment to help defend Saudi Arabia if it were attacked, the draft treaty would grant Washington access to Saudi territory and airspace to protect U.S. interests and regional partners, the newspaper reported.

It is also intended to bind Riyadh closer to Washington by prohibiting China from building bases in the kingdom or pursuing security cooperation with Riyadh, the WSJ quoted officials as saying.

I like the bolded criteria re: defend and the deflect against China. I would like wording to renegotiate the treaty after X years (?). There'll be a point with SA and Middle-East won't be as important to US interests (e.g. go Elon Musk or ... go BYD).

[Edward64]

Coming to a theatre near you. Future warfare/conflict/terrorism with drones are going to suck.

[CrimsonFox]

oh fuck. unibomber squared

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

oh fuck. unibomber squared

More like cubed+ (at least)

[RainMaker]

I don't really get the image or what it has to do with this thread?

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

More like cubed+ (at least)

the cubabomber

[Edward64]

Congrats Joe (and Blinken) on the ceasefire deal

It’s not clear to me that Israel is bought in so risky for US as her ‘guarantor’ (?). Hamas seems agreeable so that is good.

Let’s see this happen.

AJ continues pattern of commentators droning on with no ‘both sides’. Lots of brainwashing here just like in the US. I dont think AJ in US is this bad.

I would have like to be here in Oct to see how they reported the mass murders, rapes etc.

[RainMaker]

Where are you seeing a ceasefire deal being reached? I can't imagine Netanyahu agreeing to anything that ends things as it means he goes to jail right after. He sort of needs this to keep going.

[Edward64]

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/l...-24/index.html

The UN Security Council adopted a resolution proposed by the United States for a permanent ceasefire and release of the hostages in Gaza. The motion was adopted with 14 votes in favor and one abstention by Russia.

[RainMaker]

And Netanyahu has already rejected it numerous times (including over the weekend). He'd lose his coalition if he agreed to it and goes to prison once he's out of power. I get the U.S. is trying to put some pressure on him to agree, but he's been pretty steadfast that he's not going to.

This is just for show and has no real world implications.

[Edward64]

Sure, it can all collapse. And yeah, not sure Bibi wants this.

As Dave Ramsey says ... baby steps. Let's see what happens, better than status quo.

[RainMaker]

There is nothing to collapse. Israel has rejected the deal repeatedly. It's been on the table for months.

[Edward64]

I would like to read more about this.

It'd be good if you provided sources other than Tik Tok or X. I suspect you are conflating the multitude of other proposals as this deal is relatively new (not months).

I suspect the difference is in the "details" and "definitions".

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw448x7lxggo

The plan has three phases that would end with a major reconstruction plan for Gaza, which has been largely destroyed in the conflict.

The first phase of the plan concerns a hostage-prisoner swap as well as a short-term ceasefire.

The second phase includes a "permanent end to hostilities", as well as a full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza, according to a text of the US draft resolution.

The third phase focuses on the enclave's long-term outlook, and it would start a multi-year reconstruction plan for Gaza.

AJ here says Israel has not agreed to it. But I didn't see anything about Hamas agreeing to it either. So take below FWIW.

Monday's resolution comes weeks after President Joe Biden said the Israelis had agreed to a three-phase plan that would result in a permanent ceasefire in Gaza.

[RainMaker]

I don't know what your weird fetishization of TikTok is about but you can just look this shit up through Israeli news sources.

UN Security Council adopts US plan for Israel-Hamas cease-fire

In addition to the joint call that effectively equates Israel and Hamas, Israel has informed Washington that the current wording of the proposal does not reflect Israel's deal framework. The approved text stated that Israel agreed to end the war and completely withdraw its forces from Gaza in exchange for the return of all hostages. However, Israeli officials emphasize that their agreement to end the war was conditional on Hamas no longer being the ruling power in Gaza, and they claim that they did not consent to the wording presented to the Security Council.

Hamas welcomed the resolution, saying it is ready to cooperate with mediators over implementing the principles of the plan.

A senior Israeli official told Ynet that the resolution "restricts Israel's freedom of action." According to him, "The U.S. accepted very problematic formulations to prevent the Russians from vetoing, and the fact that Algeria supported the proposal tells the whole story."

Netanyahu says he won't agree to any of these ceasefires on an almost daily basis. Ganz just stepped down over the weekend over it.

The U.S. has done this dumb fake ceasefire shit for months now and it always ends the same. Netanyahu is not changing his mind and his government is made up of the most far-right people in the country. Once the war ends, he is out of power and goes to prison. I can't believe people keep falling for this but I overestimated the critical thinking skills of some people that seem to get off on getting duped over and over.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't know what your weird fetishization of TikTok is about but you can just look this shit up through Israeli news sources.

UN Security Council adopts US plan for Israel-Hamas cease-fire

No fetishization, just asking for your news sources other than your typical tik tok, X posts. Admittedly, traditional news sources gets it wrong (and sometimes late reporting) but they certainly have a better credibility than your "JDAM/Ninja cutter" sources.

If your link above is your answer to my challenge to your statement highlighted below, it doesn't. Another example of why I don't want to spend time "trying" to find your sources when you should be able to provide them readily to refute me.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There is nothing to collapse. Israel has rejected the deal repeatedly. It's been on the table for months.

Keep in mind the last ceasefire (that I know of back in May) did not break down because of Bibi. See post above, summarized below.

Story behind why the most recent ceasefire agreement fell apart. It wasn't Bibi nor Hamas nor Qataris, it was Egypt. WTF were they thinking.

The U.S. has done this dumb fake ceasefire shit for months now and it always ends the same.

All it takes is Hamas to return all hostages (alive or dead), promise not to attack again, for Sinwar (and leadership team) to eat a JDAM or Ninja cutter thingy, and let the PA take back Gaza.

I know PA is "really corrupt" but look what Hamas has ended up with. I suspect the vast majority of Gazans would love to live in the West Bank right now (my guess). Definitely lesser of 2 evils but one is all about $ and the other hide hostages in areas & buildings with civilians, use hospitals for their terrorist purposes, kills enemy soldiers (fair) but also kidnaps grandpas/grandmas/kids/foreigners etc. and hold them for months, have 'journalists' that laughs and giggles in the middle of Oct 7, and of course, initiated this specific war with Oct 7 genocide of near 1,200 people.

[RainMaker]

The source is Israel's leading newspaper and the actual words spoken by Netanyahu and other members of his government. Outside of Netanyahu traveling to your home and explaining this at a 6th grade level, I don't know what else can be said to convince you of their stance they proudly parrot on a daily basis.

Israel and the US will never allow the PA to take over Gaza (they won't even let them control the West Bank). Both have been supporting Hamas in Gaza for the past 15 years. Again, this is common knowledge to anyone who has followed the Middle East even passively since the Obama administration. Israel views the PA as a bigger threat than Hamas.

There is so much information available that you can catch up on this stuff. So many foreign news outlets that will translate articles for you. Netanyahu talks a lot and you can translate everything he says if you want to get it straight from the source. In fact, that would be my suggestion. Just read what he says publicly to understand what his stance is. There is no reason to come across so misinformed on this topic.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The source is Israel's leading newspaper and the actual words spoken by Netanyahu and other members of his government. Outside of Netanyahu traveling to your home and explaining this at a 6th grade level, I don't know what else can be said to convince you of their stance they proudly parrot on a daily basis.

I'll ask a 3rd (or 4th time?), provide the links. Devil is in the details and I suspect you have the details wrong. So let me read from your sources.

If you expect me to take your word for it, you'll forgive me if I don't. I mean you said that one can tell it was a JDAM by the acoustics. You said Obama had majority to force bills through in the first 2 years but then deleted your post when JPhillips corrected you .... and so on.

I wouldn't be surprised if your sources really doesn't prove your original statement that I contested. I'll post it below again so we don't lose track of it. Keep in mind the context is you are saying this most recent deal (UN voted yes 14-0) is the one that's been "on the table for months".

Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
There is nothing to collapse. Israel has rejected the deal repeatedly. It's been on the table for months.

There is so much information available that you can catch up on this stuff. So many foreign news outlets that will translate articles for you. Netanyahu talks a lot and you can translate everything he says if you want to get it straight from the source. In fact, that would be my suggestion. Just read what he says publicly to understand what his stance is. There is no reason to come across so misinformed on this topic.

I'll just say ... show everyone on FOFC that your original statement below is correct and that I'm wrong. You may be right, I do keep up with this but may have missed it. But remember, the latest May failure wasn't Bibi's fault.

Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
There is nothing to collapse. Israel has rejected the deal repeatedly. It's been on the table for months.

If you can't, just say you were mistaken and you were talking more in "general terms" and not this specific UN one. That'll give you more wiggle room for your support of Hamas.

[RainMaker]

This is just a cursory Google search man. Israel is not hiding their stance on this. They are not interested in a ceasefire.

Inside the Gaza ceasefire deal that was accepted by Hamas but rejected by Israel | The Independent
No Gaza ceasefire until Israel war aims achieved, Netanyahu says
Netanyahu rejects Gaza ceasefire deal and says victory is ‘within reach’ | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian
https://www.dw.com/en/israel-hamas-w.../live-67251983
https://time.com/6334131/netanyahu-r...gaza-fighting/
Israel cancels White House visit after US doesn't block UN ceasefire vote - BBC News
U.S. vetoes a U.N. resolution demanding an immediate cease-fire in Gaza : NPR

Benny Ganz, an incredibly important politician in Israel just resigned because he said Netanyahu will never accept a ceasefire. The same deal the United States has been trying to pass of returning hostages for an end to the war has been on the table since last year.

Netanyahu has over and over said he will not end this war. He does not want a ceasefire. I don't know why you are trying to convince yourself that they are all lying about their intentions. Just respect their stance on this for fucks sake.

[Edward64]

More details on the rescue of the 4 hostages. Palestinian deaths range from 100 (IDF estimates) to 270 (Hamas). Many bad guys dead but many were certainly innocent civilians.

Basically, IDF goes into 2 different civilian locations where hostages are held. One location was relatively easy. The second location had more fighting and the IDF called in air support/artillery. This second location is where majority of deaths happened.

I struggle with the number of innocent deaths but basically understand it. If air support/artillery did not come through, would we now be seeing a bunch of dead IDF or being hauled away (e.g. Black Hawk Down). War is hell on the innocents.

Inside Israel’s deadly operation to rescue four hostages | CNN

[RainMaker]

This is the part where you do some pedantic shit like post a Webster's dictionary definition of the word ceasefire because you got looking dumb again.

I'll just skip that part of this thread and wait a week for this ceasefire to not happen.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is just a cursory Google search man. Israel is not hiding their stance on this. They are not interested in a ceasefire.

Inside the Gaza ceasefire deal that was accepted by Hamas but rejected by Israel | The Independent
No Gaza ceasefire until Israel war aims achieved, Netanyahu says
Netanyahu rejects Gaza ceasefire deal and says victory is ‘within reach’ | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian
https://www.dw.com/en/israel-hamas-w.../live-67251983
https://time.com/6334131/netanyahu-r...gaza-fighting/
Israel cancels White House visit after US doesn't block UN ceasefire vote - BBC News
U.S. vetoes a U.N. resolution demanding an immediate cease-fire in Gaza : NPR

Benny Ganz, an incredibly important politician in Israel just resigned because he said Netanyahu will never accept a ceasefire. The same deal the United States has been trying to pass of returning hostages for an end to the war has been on the table since last year.

Netanyahu has over and over said he will not end this war. He does not want a ceasefire. I don't know why you are trying to convince yourself that they are all lying about their intentions. Just respect their stance on this for fucks sake.

Thanks for your sources. Once again, details matter and shows again always better to ask you for your sources to reduce confusion and obfuscation.

I read through the first 4 links. I think you believe I am saying that Bibi has willingly accepted the ceasefire. This is not the case. Let me quote myself from recent posts above.

Originally Posted by Edward64

It’s not clear to me that Israel is bought in so risky for US as her ‘guarantor’ (?). Hamas seems agreeable so that is good.

Let’s see this happen.

Originally Posted by Edward64

Sure, it can all collapse. And yeah, not sure Bibi wants this.

I am contesting what you said in response to my "collapse" comment. Let me reproduce it below.

#1

Originally Posted by Edward64

Sure, it can all collapse. And yeah, not sure Bibi wants this.

As Dave Ramsey says ... baby steps. Let's see what happens, better than status quo.

#2

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There is nothing to collapse. Israel has rejected the deal repeatedly. It's been on the table for months.

#3

Originally Posted by Edward64

I would like to read more about this.

It'd be good if you provided sources other than Tik Tok or X. I suspect you are conflating the multitude of other proposals as this deal is relatively new (not months).

I suspect the difference is in the "details" and "definitions".

So where are your sources that (1) Israel has rejected the deal repeatedly and (2) its been on the table for months? Your first 4 links don't support your statement I am contesting.

I suspect my hypothesis below is true. But you do you.

If you can't, just say you were mistaken and you were talking more in "general terms" and not this specific UN one. That'll give you more wiggle room for your support of Hamas.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is the part where you do some pedantic shit like post a Webster's dictionary definition of the word ceasefire because you got looking dumb again.

I'll just skip that part of this thread and wait a week for this ceasefire to not happen.

Nope, just shows your reading comprehension issue.

I had reposted your statement that I am contesting several times. Even bolded the sections. You ignore answering my challenge but go off on tangents with irrelevant links.

Good think I'm quoting your posts now. Wouldn't want you deleting posts (aka JPhillips) when you are (likely) wrong.

[RainMaker]

I have no clue what post you're talking about that I "deleted"? Are you off your meds or confusing me with someone else? Or is this part of the pedantic shit to deflect from being wrong again? Pretty sure an admin or mod can look up if I deleted some post JPhillips responded to.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I have no clue what post you're talking about that I "deleted"? Are you off your meds or confusing me with someone else? Or is this part of the pedantic shit to deflect from being wrong again? Pretty sure an admin or mod can look up if I deleted some post JPhillips responded to.

This is a fair ask.

But before I go/try dig it up, why don't we finish what we are really talking about ... specifically my challenge to your quote (see 3 posts up). We don't want to go off on a tangent and hide that either you (likely) or I (unlikely) was wrong.

I mean you attack me with lies all the time. So live with it, consider this as (maybe) trying to even things up a little.

[GrantDawg]

I do marvel at the number of "Cease Fire Now!" people seem to be really against this cease fire. It is almost as if the ending of the conflict wasn't really their motivation.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I do marvel at the number of "Cease Fire Now!" people seem to be really against this cease fire. It is almost as if the ending of the conflict wasn't really their motivation.

O am really sick of all this armchair presidenting and people acting like Biden himself is kililng people.

[RainMaker]

I mean they are using the billions in weapons we send them to commit the genocide. Something they would not be able to do without our support.

Although interesting to see the pivot from this is good to "well he isn't actually dropping the bombs personally".

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I do marvel at the number of "Cease Fire Now!" people seem to be really against this cease fire. It is almost as if the ending of the conflict wasn't really their motivation.

They've got their goalposts on wheels so they can move them quickly whenever it looks like Biden is about to do what they said they wanted.