Maximum Football???

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by David Winter

For about a year now (maybe more), I have been stating that the 'next version' of the game would have some additional features asked for by the playing community. Some of those features involve AI trades, salary caps, online game play, etc.. Those of you that frequent the board probably know what I'm talking about. As I said, I've been saying that 'the next version will have those'. We'll, this is being advertised now as 'the next version', but I'm afraid those features I just mentioned will not be included.

Originally Posted by Marauders

The plans for those new features have not been put aside, and they were never meant to be in this version.

Which is it?

[Neon_Chaos]

*laughs at Maximum Footbal*

[SunDevil]

Marauders in his glory days.

[Marauders]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Which is it?

It is not zero sum. Both statements are valid.

The plans for those features have not changed. They are scheduled to be included in a later version of the game. That version will be a major overhaul of other features as well.

Neither David nor Matrix Games expected that there would have to be so many changes to the game code when Microsoft changed the .dll's for Vista, but like many other computer game software developers found out, there was.

David decided to make other changes and upgrades at that time. Some of these changes were not scheduled until the overhaul, but feedback from the community and beta members convinced him to act upon them now. Interface changes and depth chart changes are the most notable, but there are other code changes that had to be made. These changes also nessecitated a change from 1.x to 2.x in the title designation.

If David would have simply stated that "future versions" of the game would have those features, this would have been more clear. That is why David took the time to explain that 2.0 is not the version he was indicating when he was talking about the game overhaul that would add those features.

You are simply making more of this than it is. FBPro97 was a larger change from FBPro96 than FBPro98 was a change from FBPro97. EA and Tiburon often state what they want to add to Madden and the don't get each feature done for each release.

As I stated above, it was not the case that David couldn't meet a deadline to get commisioner, salary, and online features into this version, those feature were never planned for this version.

Someone here made a comment about me stating that this thread is counterproductive. This is what I meant: this thread takes a lot of time going over bugs that have already been cleaned up, taking personal jabs at David Winter, spinning David's statement, and complaining about features that David does not have the time to put in right now. In the meantime, I am trying my hardest to press for features that I believe will make the game better. If the FOF community would support the changes that can be made now to make the game better, it would be more productive.

Yeah, it's fun to joke around, and some of the posts are valid and sincere, but many of the posts do nothing to aid in the process. If that's what you want to do, that's fine, but don't expect anyone outside of this board to take you seriously.

As it stands, I don't expect some of you to take me seriously. As far as you know, I could be a shill for David or Matrix Games. Those of you who know me from the Matrix boards should now better, but most of you don't know me. Most of you don't know the heat I take for advocating community needs. Even some beta team mebers don't know. That stated, I am going to push as I may to make Maximum Football a better game just as you may push to make FOF better and Madden community members push for Madden features. In the end, we should all have better games because of it.

[Marauders]

Marauders in his glory days.

That would be funny if myself and many of my family and friends were not a veterans of the United States military or that some of them are still serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Grow up.

[Eaglesfan27]

This thread never fails to deliver.

[molson]

I've never even posted in this thread before.

[Bee]

So if I understand correctly if you quicksim a season, no one would have a run longer than 19 yards or a pass longer than 41 yards? Doesn't that screw up the stats?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Marauders

That would be funny if myself and many of my family and friends were not a veterans of the United States military or that some of them are still serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Grow up.

I'm an army vet. My wife is currently serving in Iraq. I found it funny.

I need to grow up.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Bee

So if I understand correctly if you quicksim a season, no one would have a run longer than 19 yards or a pass longer than 41 yards? Doesn't that screw up the stats?

Absolutely no way to simulate the Bengals defense.

[larrymcg421]

Ohhhh, I get it now. When David said next version, he didn't mean this version, even though it is the next version.

What David meant was those features would be included int he next overhaul, which will happen after the current version, but before the next update. Of course, you'll need to make sure you get the previous update before the next overhaul, otherwise the version after that will not work. Now, the three versions from now, there will be a massive overhaul after that which will improve the previous update with some awesome features. Of course they haven't decided whether that will be called 4.5 or 5.0. Either way, it will be a free update to those who own 4.49 but not if you have 4.48. Of course, the people who own version 3.14 are still pissed because the game just keeps going and going forever with no way to stop it.

[Antmeister]

Marauders,

Seriously. What do you have against the game at this point? Are you growing frustrated because you didn't get the features you wanted? Because for whatever reason, you love talking about the fact that you have pushed features. However no one ever argued that you never did. You just keep bringing it up out of the blue.

And read whay larrymcg421 posted above, because you are moderator of those boards and you know damn well he promised a lot of stuff for 2.0. I mean that quote is actually from David and what you are saying makes no sense.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

This thread never fails to deliver.

Like The Mailman Karl Malone.

[Marauders]

Originally Posted by Bee

So if I understand correctly if you quicksim a season, no one would have a run longer than 19 yards or a pass longer than 41 yards? Doesn't that screw up the stats?

No, it keeps the stats from getting bloated. One can set them to whatever one wants, but the end stats are what are important. They should reflect stats similar to what one is getting in the live game.

[cartman]

If you can't see the massive disconnect between all of the focus in the new patch being related to visuals, yet the game has hard coded limit for gains on a play, then that really says it all. The game looks pretty, but there is no wizard behind the curtain. It is basically an implementation of the old electric football games where you setup your players and started the table vibrating, without all of the shaking and noise.

[JonInMiddleGA]

When the game was picked up by Matrix Games, a perfect storm of comedy potential was created by combining an inept game designer, his I-have-the-people-skills-of-a-zombie-IRS employee-wife, and a company that will clearly release anything if they can make even two cents profit on it their reputation be damned. All that was left was to add a few fanboys so desperate for attention that they'll shill for this steaming pile of crap and you get an all-time classic. The only possible improvement would have been a subplot featuring modern day cavemen hanging around the beer tent in snazzy custom uniforms designed by the winners of a cable reality show.

Fixed that for you.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by cartman

If you can't see the massive disconnect between all of the focus in the new patch being related to visuals, yet the game has hard coded limit for gains on a play, then that really says it all. The game looks pretty, but there is no wizard behind the curtain. It is basically an implementation of the old electric football games where you setup your players and started the table vibrating, without all of the shaking and noise.

Well said. I am not sure why he doesn't understand this, being an FBPro98 purist and all. This is as far away from FBPro as you can get. Hell, this is even much worse than Madden in terms of realism and yet that is what they are supposedly trying to get away from. Huh?!?!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Marauders

No, it keeps the stats from getting bloated. One can set them to whatever one wants, but the end stats are what are important. They should reflect stats similar to what one is getting in the live game.

What kind of engine can't have reasonable stats with maximum runs/passes of 109 yards (for a Canadian field)? Just because those are the maximum distances doesn't mean that they have to happen every game. I could see if you could somehow set the maximums to something greater than 109, because then you're no longer simulating in the same dimensions as the live game.

Just the fact that there are artificial maximum gains tells me that these values are probably getting reached way too often throughout the course of a game. If the quick-sim engine generates maximum gains that often, there's a fundamental problem.

[JonInMiddleGA]

For some reason I'm reminded of one more thing that's missing from truly making Maxmium Fotoball complete: What's a beer tent without being able to see the Pumpy pic on the roof of it?

[Marauders]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Ohhhh, I get it now. When David said next version, he didn't mean this version, even though it is the next version.

Actually, that is correct. He did not know at the time that there would be the need for an interim version. Microsoft changed that plan.

What David meant was those features would be included in the next overhaul, which will happen after the current version, but before the next update.

By version, he was making reference to the next major overhaul.

Originally Posted by Antmeister

What do you have against the game at this point? Are you growing frustrated because you didn't get the features you wanted? Because for whatever reason, you love talking about the fact that you have pushed features. However no one ever argued that you never did. You just keep bringing it up out of the blue.

Actually, many features that I ask for are in the game or will be. As difficult as this may seem to you, David does listen to what the community wants. My statement about pushing for features was background information for people who may believe I work for Matrix Games or are just making excuses for David. What I am saying is that I have issues that I would like to get resolved, as Maximum Football is not perfect, but I am constructive about it. Because I advocate for the community, David believes I am sometimes a major pain in the ass, but he also knows that we can work together to create a better game, and that is the goal.

And read whay larrymcg421 posted above, because you are moderator of those boards and you know damn well he promised a lot of stuff for 2.0.

And you know damn well that this version is not what he meant. You can go back to the Matrix board and complain all you want about 2.0 not having online play or some other wishlist feature you wanted, but that isn't going to change the facts on the ground.

Until that post quoted by larrymcg, the version released had always been referred to as 1.5. David was simply explaining that the version number would be changed to 2.0 because of the many changes that had been made, and that it should not be confused with the advanced version he had referenced as Maximum Football 2 in the past.

Myself, and the entire beta team agreed with the new designation, as some files from 1.x could not be used in 2.x. Had there been an attempt at subterfuge, as you are indicating, I suspect the who beta team would have resigned.

I mean that quote is actually from David and what you are saying makes no sense.

It makes complete logical sense. What has been named 2.0 is an iterim version that had to be coded by necessity. If you don't understand it, then I really cannot help you.

[Marauders]

Originally Posted by cartman

If you can't see the massive disconnect between all of the focus in the new patch being related to visuals, yet the game has hard coded limit for gains on a play, then that really says it all. The game looks pretty, but there is no wizard behind the curtain. It is basically an implementation of the old electric football games where you setup your players and started the table vibrating, without all of the shaking and noise.

I don't believe you understand what has the limit. The live game has no limit on play length other than the field size of course. My backs rack off 50 yard runs and my receivers can burst for 60 YAC or more.

The sim feature is used to sim games of the week that one doesn't want to wait for live play. It simulates games, but it doesn't have the AI as good as the live game, so there are parameters that can be set to allow the game stats to be closer to the live game stats.

As there are many different things that can be set in a league, there has to be an ability to modify the sim game.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Marauders

I don't believe you understand what has the limit. The live game has no limit on play length other than the field size of course. My backs rack off 50 yard runs and my receivers can burst for 60 YAC or more.

The sim feature is used to sim games of the week that one doesn't want to wait for live play. It simulates games, but it doesn't have the AI as good as the live game, so there are parameters that can be set to allow the game stats to be closer to the live game stats.

As there are many different things that can be set in a league, there has to be an ability to modify the sim game.

All I can say is.....Wow! You still don't get it.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

this is the ultimate thread that won't die

"

only been over a year since my last post in here.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

All I can say is.....Wow! You still don't get it.

+0.98763927163827

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

What kind of engine can't have reasonable stats with maximum runs/passes of 109 yards (for a Canadian field)? Just because those are the maximum distances doesn't mean that they have to happen every game. I could see if you could somehow set the maximums to something greater than 109, because then you're no longer simulating in the same dimensions as the live game.

Just the fact that there are artificial maximum gains tells me that these values are probably getting reached way too often throughout the course of a game. If the quick-sim engine generates maximum gains that often, there's a fundamental problem.

The length of runs are probably just random, not, a weighted average.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Marauders

No, it keeps the stats from getting bloated. One can set them to whatever one wants, but the end stats are what are important. They should reflect stats similar to what one is getting in the live game.

*laughs at statement*

If the stats are bloated given the actual maximum run and pass yardage within the context of the real-life game of football, then there's an inherent flaw in the engine. Of course, I wouldn't have expected realistic stats from a dress-em up game masquerading as a hybrid sim/arcade game.

You said earlier that this was put in because it would make the sim faster. Now you're saying that it was put in because the stats would be off. Which is it? Or is it both? Or maybe none of the above, and you're just making things up as you go?

[rkmsuf]

what the maximum teleportation distance


thanks

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Marauders

there are parameters that can be set to allow the game stats to be closer to the live game stats.

So you're saying the live play is so screwed up that the only way to get close with simmed games is to set a limitation of 19 yards on running plays and 41 yards on passing plays?

edit:

Or wait...is it the sim engine is so bad that the only way to get close is by setting those limitations?

Do either give realistic results or are they still like they were before when nothing made any sense?

[Bee]

Originally Posted by cartman

+0.98763927163827

That was funny.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by cartman

+0.98763927163827

+0.8675309

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Surtt

The length of runs are probably just random, not, a weighted average.

It wouldn't surprise me.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

+0.8675309

How appropriate, since many of the players in game are two tone.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Marauders

No, it keeps the stats from getting bloated. One can set them to whatever one wants, but the end stats are what are important. They should reflect stats similar to what one is getting in the live game.

If all you are looking for is the end stats why wast time simming it at all?
Just generate a score and stats.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Surtt

If all you are looking for is the end stats why wast time simming it at all?
Just generate a score and stats.

Or just skip that and pick a winner.

[stevew]

This thread has taken a humorous turn.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Bee

Or just skip that and pick a winner.

you could play seasons at ludicr.........no, maximum speed.

[SunDevil]

I would just like to provide another example of Daivd's attention to detail with his association with Maximum Football.

http://www.maximum-football.com/

Tell me what is missing here?

[SunDevil]

Also anyone who is still on the fence or needs to be cheered up, you can look at this multi-talented thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1573069

[cartman]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

I would just like to provide another example of Daivd's attention to detail with his association with Maximum Football.

http://www.maximum-football.com/

Tell me what is missing here?

BRILLIANT!!!

He must have hired jbmagic as his graphics designer!

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

I would just like to provide another example of Daivd's attention to detail with his association with Maximum Football.

http://www.maximum-football.com/

Tell me what is missing here?

"While the rest of the industry is abandoning the PC market for the console world of arcade football, Wintervalley is providing a PC football game like no other."

Well, that statement is definitely true....

[Neon_Chaos]

Taken from the thread above...

The things that made me the most happy were the way the game keeps track of the W/L records throughout the league each year, and stores them, so you don't have to record them on your own. I also like the defunct team list (can we take teams out of the league this year david?), and the game also keeps track of past champions.

It's made enormous leaps in gameplay!

[Ajaxab]

The addition of W/L records reminds me of those notebooks of stats from games I played that are sitting in my parents' basement. Thing is that game was Gamestar's On-Field Football, the machine I played it on was the Commodore 64 and the year was 1985. Good to see we can finally keep track of these things with the computer now.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

The addition of W/L records reminds me of those notebooks of stats from games I played that are sitting in my parents' basement. Thing is that game was Gamestar's On-Field Football, the machine I played it on was the Commodore 64 and the year was 1985. Good to see we can finally keep track of these things with the computer now.

I used to keep track of stats for Earl Weaver baseball. You could print out the box score after you were done the game, and I had a binder of these.

[JPhillips]

Marauders: Seeing as how you clearly have plenty of free time right now, can you please post screen shots that show us that stats are close to accurate for a game and for a season?

As long as you continue to dodge this you'll be nothing more than a punching bag around here. Either the game generates close to accurate stats or it doesn't. If, as you've said, it does, prove it.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Bee

Or just skip that and pick a winner.

Or just skip that and show the final standings at the end of the year.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Surtt

Or just skip that and show the final standings at the end of the year.

Or just skip that and...

Oh.

[MikeVic]

I don't get what's missing on the homepage?

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Taken from the thread above...
It's made enormous leaps in gameplay!

Considering he used to do these simple things about a decade ago, it's nice to see that it was finally implemented with over 2 years of programming. Kudos!

[Surtt]

Too bad there still is not a demo so we could see all the improvements.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Marauders: Seeing as how you clearly have plenty of free time right now, can you please post screen shots that show us that stats are close to accurate for a game and for a season?

As long as you continue to dodge this you'll be nothing more than a punching bag around here. Either the game generates close to accurate stats or it doesn't. If, as you've said, it does, prove it.

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Considering he used to do these simple things about a decade ago, it's nice to see that it was finally implemented with over 2 years of programming. Kudos!

Originally Posted by Surtt

Too bad there still is not a demo so we could see all the improvements.

The FOFC still has it.