Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[cartman]

I'd been looking for this for a while. If you were a WCCW fan, or heard about them and wondered what the big deal was, this is a must see. The whole thing is on YouTube.

Heroes Of World Class - The Story Of The Von Erich's & The Rise & Fall Of World Class (HD UNCUT) - YouTube

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

I'd been looking for this for a while. If you were a WCCW fan, or heard about them and wondered what the big deal was, this is a must see. The whole thing is on YouTube.

Heroes Of World Class - The Story Of The Von Erich's & The Rise & Fall Of World Class (HD UNCUT) - YouTube

Watched it in full recently with my son. Depressing as hell but darned well done.

[Suicane75]

Is that the one where Kevin walks through the dilapidated Sportatorium at the end?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Is that the one where Kevin walks through the dilapidated Sportatorium at the end?

Yep.

[APC]

Does anybody play the latest version of a PC wrestling sim called TNM7? I remember owning an earlier version back in the late 90s. It was actually one of the games that got me into text sims.

Over the weekend I got the itch to find a wrestling game/sim to download (I know the standard bearer is TEW Revenge, but it's too much clicking for me) so I Googled TNM.

Sure enough, it's still around. However, it costs $65 for the sim and all the plugins. $65! I think when I had it back in the day, it was free.

Anyway, the website hasn't been updated since 2012 and I can't find a customer service email to inquire about a demo or trial period.

Does anyone play the latest version? Is it in any way worth $65?

http://www.tnm7.de/cgi-bin/rmcms.cgi?page=main

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by APC

Does anybody play the latest version of a PC wrestling sim called TNM7? I remember owning an earlier version back in the late 90s. It was actually one of the games that got me into text sims.

Over the weekend I got the itch to find a wrestling game/sim to download (I know the standard bearer is TEW Revenge, but it's too much clicking for me) so I Googled TNM.

Sure enough, it's still around. However, it costs $65 for the sim and all the plugins. $65! I think when I had it back in the day, it was free.

Anyway, the website hasn't been updated since 2012 and I can't find a customer service email to inquire about a demo or trial period.

Does anyone play the latest version? Is it in any way worth $65?

http://www.tnm7.de/cgi-bin/rmcms.cgi?page=main

I don't know, haven't played TNM in years too. But it looks like the base version of TNM7 is $30.

There is a Forums link on the TNM7 site, which look all but dead. But there was one post that pointed to some sort of unofficial update to TNM7 by some other guy (and it looks like these forums are more active):
Home | TNM 3:16 Message Board

[dubb93]

There is a trial version right there on that page. I would make sure I download that trial before I even considered buying as this looks like the same exact game I played in the late 90's. I can't see many major updates, it looks like it obviously is a DOS game still, and there is a warning about not being compatible with 64 bit operating systems.

Click downloads at the top right and then click on the trial version on the next page.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I was very much into this once upon a time, man oh man talk about mods/homebrewed wrestlers/etc good Lord at the time I spent with TNM

The price beyond the base appears to be for the various plug-ins, which are largely (nearly entirely) cosmetic & convenience as far as I could tell. Deep immersion and/or running it e-fed style mostly I think.

That TNM 3:16 msg board is connected with this site which I was stunned to see still up & running all these years later.
Josh Liller's TNM 3:16

That's Josh Liller, who was a fair bit of legendary amongst players back in the day. If it's related to TNM in some way & worth knowing about I'd put the odds at very high on it being linked or referenced on his page somewhere.

[Mota]

Great game, but unfortunately it is unplayable on most computers today. I couldn't get it to work. I used to play a game called Rampage Wrestling by Lance Haffner games back in the 90's that was similar. Then I graduated to TNM.

I actually wrote a pen and paper wrestling game in the 80's which was pretty decent. Probably too much busywork for today's boardgamer though. We had a lot of fun with that, I ran a league at a local comic shop in the mid 90's and we used to get about 10 guys who would show up every Monday night for an evening of dice and wrestling. I wish I could still do that!

[APC]

Originally Posted by dubb93

There is a trial version right there on that page. I would make sure I download that trial before I even considered buying as this looks like the same exact game I played in the late 90's. I can't see many major updates, it looks like it obviously is a DOS game still, and there is a warning about not being compatible with 64 bit operating systems.

Click downloads at the top right and then click on the trial version on the next page.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I overlooked the trial version download.....looks like it probably won't work on my computer though.

Edit: And thanks for that link, Jon.

[SirFozzie]

If you're interested in a Pen and Paper like TNM game, check out Wild World Wrestling on DriveThruRPG. I was so tempted to make a E-Fed using it.

Edit: You can get the book for $20, the PDF for $5, or the book and PDF combo for $22.50

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/...-Event-Edition

[APC]

Tried running the trial version of TNM7 on a DOS emmulator and it's pretty clunky. Oh well.....

[Mota]

I do have Wild World Wrestling. It's pretty good. I prefer the Squared Circle RPG.

http://www.daydreamerinteractive.com...ed_circle.html

I have all of the sourcebooks too. I found this game played a little better, so I spent a bit more time creating some characters and stuff. If anybody is interested in starting a league, it would be fun to do.

[JonInMiddleGA]

for pen & paper, I'd also recommend looking at Face To The Mat (from Plaay.com) and maybe World Wrestling Game by B.J. George (on DriveThruPRG when I got it, presumably still there)

[dubb93]

Took the bite and downloaded TNM for nostalgia myself. Hasn't aged well. Same could be said for basically all the old wrestling text sims. Downloaded EWD about a year ago and couldn't believe how simplistic it really was.

[MikeVic]

I remember playing an old version or EWR and TNM. I believe TNM got me into text sims (followed closely by Baseball Mogul). I remember liking EWR a lot when I first got it. I tried playing the newer wrestling sims, and it was almost too involved, not sure how to explain it.

[APC]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I remember playing an old version or EWR and TNM. I believe TNM got me into text sims (followed closely by Baseball Mogul). I remember liking EWR a lot when I first got it. I tried playing the newer wrestling sims, and it was almost too involved, not sure how to explain it.

I agree about the newer wrestling sims being too involved. You work out a bunch of fun ideas in your head, then sit down to try and implement them into one of the newer sims and it's click, click, click, click, click, click and takes forever.

[molson]

If you haven't tried TEW for a while, the most recent version did a lot to streamline things. Of course, there's even more options and features than there used to be, so you can run into the OOTP massiveness issue, and I get people are looking for something simpler. But, it has evolved:

TEW2013 Developer's Journal - Grey Dog Software

[Mota]

Originally Posted by APC

I agree about the newer wrestling sims being too involved. You work out a bunch of fun ideas in your head, then sit down to try and implement them into one of the newer sims and it's click, click, click, click, click, click and takes forever.

Yes, we all dream of being the owner of a REAL wrestling federation, not the showrunner, timing out segments and making sure you have the proper ratio of angles and matches.

I'd love the kayfabe wrestling simulator. Give a match a 20 minute time limit and watch them fight. Like TNM but a more modern version that functions as a career mode.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Mota

Yes, we all dream of being the owner of a REAL wrestling federation, not the showrunner, timing out segments and making sure you have the proper ratio of angles and matches.

I'd love the kayfabe wrestling simulator. Give a match a 20 minute time limit and watch them fight. Like TNM but a more modern version that functions as a career mode.

Exactly, I liked TNM for this. Try out various matches, tag teams, etc... and see who can stay champ the longest, who has good matches with each other, etc. But not book the actual match. I spent so much time creating my own wrestlers and having them fight against friends' wrestlers too.

I ended up watching matches in the Fire Pro game that was on GBA. If we could get a Fire Pro game with maybe a bit better career mode, that'd be awesome.

[dubb93]

I used to play TNM and EW 9000 / EWD all day. They both did two separate things. TNM treated it like it was real while Extreme Warfare has always put you in the role of the booker. I used to long for a modern version of a game like TNM, but then Adam Ryland put out WMMA and it filled that void for me. WMMA 3 is a bit complex and simulates more of the modern MMA world for my tastes(where everyone needs tons of time off and gets hurt all the time), but I still have WMMA 2 and I play it often. I believe it's even on Steam nowadays.

[Neon_Chaos]

Oh man. I spent so much time on EWR before. It's crazy.

[PilotMan]

So my youngest son has finally found something that he really enjoys. He's the same one that I went to Raw with in the spring. He's gotten very into wrestling and started experimenting with stop motion photography over the summer. After watching some other videos on You Tube (who knew) he's decided to start his own channel. Here's his newest video. Keep in mind doesn't turn 12 until next month. I certainly couldn't do it. I don't have the patience to do it, but he is very excited.

If you like it, subscribe to his channel, like his vid, and give him some words of encouragement.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXs...MxtveBcjEmudrA

[Flasch186]

Orton didnt stand a chance

[RainMaker]

That's pretty cool. No way I would have the patience to do that.

[SirFozzie]

How the hell is Kevin Owens going to do a match after that main event..

and I would love it if they brought the 4 Horsewomen to NXT and they just demolished the "Divas" division like the Horsemen did.

[RainMaker]

NXT is really good.

Also agree on the 4 horsewomen. The way they are doing the "revolution" doesn't elevate anyone.

[Mota]

Just from watching that show, I believe that NXT is a much better product than the WWE. I like that it's being viewed a bit more as a standalone brand. That message is confusing though, you should want to get promoted to the WWE, but it seems that everybody that is getting promoted takes a sudden tailspin with their careers. You don't see everybody calling Owens fat on NXT.

I think it really shows what I've mentioned on this thread several times already. The overlords in charge of the WWE don't actually like wrestling, while it seems like the people in charge of NXT really love what they do.

It's hard to prove, but you can feel it.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Mota

Just from watching that show, I believe that NXT is a much better product than the WWE. I like that it's being viewed a bit more as a standalone brand. That message is confusing though, you should want to get promoted to the WWE, but it seems that everybody that is getting promoted takes a sudden tailspin with their careers. You don't see everybody calling Owens fat on NXT.

I think it really shows what I've mentioned on this thread several times already. The overlords in charge of the WWE don't actually like wrestling, while it seems like the people in charge of NXT really love what they do.

It's hard to prove, but you can feel it.

Is it better? It's an hour long show that had to fill it's PPV with 2 people that are in WWE in their duel main events(Sasha had to obviously come back to drop but Owens has been up for a while). It also had Liger and Joe go over their own "NXT bred" talent. Take out those 4 matches and we had a tag team match and Crews debute. That's it. The NXT roster is short right now. Where was the guys who yell SAWFT? Don't they have another tag team out there? Hell put Ryder down there since it was in NYC with someone as a tag match.

Raw (for better or worse) has to fill out 3.25 RAW and 2 SD hours each week so they need filler or a brand split again. The WWE overloards like story lines... but they refuse to stick to them is the problem. Is there really a story line in NXT? I somehow ended up watching a match that had Paige, Charlotte and Lynch on the mic and it exposed the difference. Paige kinda knew how to stretch herself out on commentary while Lynch literally said to sell an upcoming match "Yeah..." and then 20 seconds of silence. I was shocked someone didn't send a rival team out there to hit them all with chairs to break up the bad idea of having them on commentary.

Now you can tell me that's what you mean but wrestling has always had people with mic skills and NXT lacks that. Plus if someone spent 10 mins coming to the ring like Balor does they would get murdered in WWE.

Just remind me how great NXT is in 3 months when Eva Marie has the belt on her.

[SirFozzie]

There was two hours of pre-show matches, where Enzo and crew were.

Storylines in NXT? How about Bayley's long term quest to win the big one, and see the rest of the horsewomen promoted before her?

And um.. 10+ minute ring entrances... Undertaker ring a bell?

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

There was two hours of pre-show matches, where Enzo and crew were.

Storylines in NXT? How about Bayley's long term quest to win the big one, and see the rest of the horsewomen promoted before her?

And um.. 10+ minute ring entrances... Undertaker ring a bell?

Weird way to grow a brand if you have 2 hours of pre-show matches to show the following on one of your 4 PPVs. For what it's worth, I've seen 0 posts on dark matches last night there but here is what made a 2.5 hour show:

Jushin Thunder Liger defeated Tyler Breeze

The Vaudevillains (w/ Blue Pants) defeated Blake & Murphy (c) (w/ Alexa Bliss) NXT Tag Team Championship Match

Apollo Crews defeated Tye Dillinger

Samoa Joe defeated Baron Corbin

Bayley defeated Sasha Banks (c) NXT Women's Championship Match

Finn Bálor (c) defeated Kevin Owens Ladder Match for the NXT Championship

Six matches with 4 involved basically being borrowed talent. It's just a genuine observation right now about NXT because I'm not sure I could list 3 guys to fight for the title. One of them lost to Liger last night.

As for Bailey, sure that can be the story line but breaking her hand likely kept them from debuting the 4 horsewomen at Summerslam. Then again, they have a PPV tonight where turns can always happen.

About Taker, you must have missed everyone making the joke that the PPV tonight is 4 hours because of his entrance. People put up with it because he's on the way out. Don't get me wrong, it was cool the first time but even my 5 year old tells me to come get him once the hour of smoke is over.

[Suicane75]

I think NXT is great as a wrestling show. It is telling though that they aren't really growing too many people from the ground up for the big stage. All the biggest and best names are guys like Joe, Owens, Zayn, Balor, who's only real mission in NXT is to acclimate themselves to the way WWE does TV. The homegrown guys are great for NXT but does a guy like Enzo really translate to the bigger stage? Probably not, but that doesn't make him any less fun to watch in NXT. See also, Adam Rose, Ascension (OK, they really didn't have a prayer), Lucha Dragons etc. Roman Reigns is pretty much the only guy who was developed from the ground up who has become a big star on the main roster.

Now, the women are a whole different story. I think their talents may be a little overstated based on them only working with each other so long, but if they have good matches, who cares. If they can get the next batch of women into that group then you're looking at 8-10 solid main roster women and that's more than enough to carry the division for a good long time.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I think NXT is great as a wrestling show. It is telling though that they aren't really growing too many people from the ground up for the big stage. All the biggest and best names are guys like Joe, Owens, Zayn, Balor, who's only real mission in NXT is to acclimate themselves to the way WWE does TV. The homegrown guys are great for NXT but does a guy like Enzo really translate to the bigger stage? Probably not, but that doesn't make him any less fun to watch in NXT. See also, Adam Rose, Ascension (OK, they really didn't have a prayer), Lucha Dragons etc. Roman Reigns is pretty much the only guy who was developed from the ground up who has become a big star on the main roster.

Now, the women are a whole different story. I think their talents may be a little overstated based on them only working with each other so long, but if they have good matches, who cares. If they can get the next batch of women into that group then you're looking at 8-10 solid main roster women and that's more than enough to carry the division for a good long time.

Don't take this wrong. I like the format but once again, it's easy. It's one hour and they can tape 3 shows in one night and then tour for 3 weeks. This is where I think they hurt in the story line process and their talent when they make the next level. Suddenly they have a mic in their hand and are expected to be able to hang with people that have 5+ years on the mic. For the most they are falling flat on their face when given the chance.

I wished they would use NXT with some borderline with the WWE to develop a character for someone who needs a new one. Brad Maddux has been traveling and working on his new character on the road while he should have been doing it on TV @ NXT in my opinion.

Same thought on the women as of now. Sure they look great together but when they mix with the WWE roster both sides are missing moves a lot. It comes with time but as of right now it "feels" like they doubled the womens roster with NTX call ups when in reality it's only 3 women added. They are in every match now which is the only way to develop chemistry but it's not happening quick enough. It was the same with Paige/AJ at first but they wrestled each other enough that you thought it was Orton-Sheamus (happening every...single... week). I almost think they would be better served having a women's tag team title to get more of them work together quicker.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Raw (for better or worse) has to fill out 3.25 RAW and 2 SD hours each week so they need filler or a brand split again.

Well to me, that's part of the quality (or lack thereof). They don't have enough talent to be putting on 3 hours of Raw every week. I won't even count Smackdown because they've given up on it as a storytelling channel. It is literally just matches and repeating the Raw storylines. Nothing progresses, so there is no need to watch it.

They debuted Apollo Cruise today and he will be amazing. Uhaa Nation for those that follow the indies, he is huge but has amazing athleticism and some really good charisma.

One of my favorite things is that you'll never have to see talent as stale as that in the WWE. John Cena is great, but he has essentially been the same character in the same position for 10 years now. Same with Randy Orton, although he has turned a few times. His character hasn't changed either. At least NXT is providing some fresh matchups. Next thing you know, Sami Zayn will be back, and they'll have some other people ready to replace Owens and the Divas.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Don't take this wrong. I like the format but once again, it's easy. It's one hour and they can tape 3 shows in one night and then tour for 3 weeks. This is where I think they hurt in the story line process and their talent when they make the next level. Suddenly they have a mic in their hand and are expected to be able to hang with people that have 5+ years on the mic. For the most they are falling flat on their face when given the chance.

Well, not really. Who have they developed & called up that they have even tried giving a mic to? Ascension are perfectly fine WWE cue card readers, but they were never going to get over with that gimmick anyway.

Zayn & Owens were great talkers already. Promos are never going to be Nevilles strong suit but he's good for what he brings to the table. Lucha Dragons are never going to be talkers. Big E is a really great promo, as is Rusev. It seems like you're focusing on the women but they're good enough talkers that they'll be fine once they get going. Hell, half the roster have nothing to say when they're sitting at the announcers table so I'm not going to go overboard criticizing Becky Lynch for a bad night.

As far as the format goes, it may seems easy, but if it was so easy we'd see a lot more companies doing it strongly. The angles & the talent help. Absolutely being a one hour show and only have to serve 4-5 feuds at a time helps, but it's not hard to tell that booking is much stronger and more a classic wrestling feel than on the main roster.

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I wished they would use NXT with some borderline with the WWE to develop a character for someone who needs a new one. Brad Maddux has been traveling and working on his new character on the road while he should have been doing it on TV @ NXT in my opinion.

Maddox is never going to be a guy, he's just not. There's no sense using time in NXT on him over the guys they have right now. He's slotted in a certain spot and new gimmick or not, he'll always pretty much just be a body.

The problem with the women IMO is that they're trying to serve too many masters right now. Even if they allocate 2 segments per week to the division there's still like 10 women. They'll never cut bait on the Bellas, Alicia Fox should go but there's still Nattie who should be in the mix at some point, but it's an awful lot of women to try and get over in limited time.

While I can criticize what I don't like about the show and how they do things, the fact is that the machine is rolling along and they aren't going to change much of anything. I still can't help but feel that if they didn't change their minds 20 times a week and could actually plan things out longer in advance, even at 3 hours, RAW could be so much more exciting and engaging.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Is it better? It's an hour long show that had to fill it's PPV with 2 people that are in WWE in their duel main events(Sasha had to obviously come back to drop but Owens has been up for a while). It also had Liger and Joe go over their own "NXT bred" talent. Take out those 4 matches and we had a tag team match and Crews debute. That's it. The NXT roster is short right now. Where was the guys who yell SAWFT? Don't they have another tag team out there? Hell put Ryder down there since it was in NYC with someone as a tag match.

The NXT roster is short because they've brought up a bunch of people recently. Bo Dallas, Neville, Owens, Zayn, Rose, Becky Lynch, Charlotte, Sasha, Lucha Dragons, and the Ascension. Also having Kenta/Itami on the shelf with an injury doesn't help. With their ability to poach the top guys from other indies with ease, they can re-load rather quickly.

Enzo and Cass are apparently close to being called up to the main roster which I think is why they weren't on the show. They did bring Ryder down and he has been tagging with Mojo Rawley.

[RainMaker]

Also the matches before the show were apparently tapings for the TV show. They had a women's match with Emma, Dana Brooke, Charlotte, and Becky on it too. The main show was 2 and a half hours which isn't that far off from a standard WWE PPV.

As Mota mentioned, the biggest difference is that WWE is run by people who don't like wrestling and NXT is run by people who do. The main roster doesn't give real storylines to most of the roster and doesn't care what the audience thinks of them. Countless interviews with former talent have pointed out that the company doesn't think any effort should be put into midcard feuds. That the only thing that matters is the main event (or John Cena). And even that they don't really put much effort into telling a story.

Watch this video and even if you don't know their story, tell me you wouldn't want to watch them fight. NXT makes you care about the match and WWE tells you the match doesn't matter. When was the last time WWE had a feud like this?

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

As far as the format goes, it may seems easy, but if it was so easy we'd see a lot more companies doing it strongly. The angles & the talent help. Absolutely being a one hour show and only have to serve 4-5 feuds at a time helps, but it's not hard to tell that booking is much stronger and more a classic wrestling feel than on the main roster.

While I can criticize what I don't like about the show and how they do things, the fact is that the machine is rolling along and they aren't going to change much of anything. I still can't help but feel that if they didn't change their minds 20 times a week and could actually plan things out longer in advance, even at 3 hours, RAW could be so much more exciting and engaging.

LU does a better job with the same concept. It borrows talent from AAA (like NXT and WWE) but they seem (to me) to do a better job of sticking with a story/concept. I just don't think any other organization has this ability (ROH is with New Japan but heard WWE is screwing with that)(GFW borrows from TNA right now but has no TV deal).

Yeah, they aren't changing a thing at there but we can always hope they would use the talent better. Even WCW would push the midcard. That way you could still have Sting/Hogan/Flair (Cena/Orton) be stale but you were entertained but the other angles. Biggest downfall of the WWE calling up guys right now.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Watch this video and even if you don't know their story, tell me you wouldn't want to watch them fight. NXT makes you care about the match and WWE tells you the match doesn't matter. When was the last time WWE had a feud like this?

But I was already invested because of Steen/Generico. There's no way that even Vince could have screwed this one up (except for he hates out of shape short guys). And NXT production of their past used that as the story line. Not so much what happened in NXT, it was more about their journey to get to NXT.

Like I said, production wise, NXT/WWE is way ahead of anyone else. I like everyone else fail to see who the two sides can't seem to get on the same page. I just don't know if NXT is that much better the RAW when I wasn't really impressed with the card last night. I liked Prince Devitt but I don't like Finn Balor (if that even makes sense). He just seems like he has 5 moves of doomed himself.

[dubb93]

Anyone believe the report today that Cena is responsible for a complete change in the booking of the Diva's Revolution? I usually don't put much stock in this crap anymore, but I find the story mildly interesting because of how poorly I think this whole Diva's Revolution has played out so far.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

But I was already invested because of Steen/Generico. There's no way that even Vince could have screwed this one up (except for he hates out of shape short guys). And NXT production of their past used that as the story line. Not so much what happened in NXT, it was more about their journey to get to NXT.

Like I said, production wise, NXT/WWE is way ahead of anyone else. I like everyone else fail to see who the two sides can't seem to get on the same page. I just don't know if NXT is that much better the RAW when I wasn't really impressed with the card last night. I liked Prince Devitt but I don't like Finn Balor (if that even makes sense). He just seems like he has 5 moves of doomed himself.

Vince would have screwed it up. Just like he screwed up Ambrose-Rollins which should have been the feud of the year last year. Just like he screwed up Nexus. Just like he's screwing up Kevin Owens. And Reigns. And Wyatt. And Rollins title reign. And the Divas Revolution. On and on and on.

The company hasn't had a great feud/story since Punk-Cena. NXT has put together two women's feuds in the last few months that have been better than any Divas crap we've seen in over a decade.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Anyone believe the report today that Cena is responsible for a complete change in the booking of the Diva's Revolution? I usually don't put much stock in this crap anymore, but I find the story mildly interesting because of how poorly I think this whole Diva's Revolution has played out so far.

Haven't heard but can only imagine. Does it surround keeping the butterfly on his Bella? I half way believe it's a way to get back at Punk by having the strap stay on his girl. Love how everyone is stats crazy now by basically proving that neither of them put the belt up much.

I still want to think that the 4 horsewomen angle was set until Bailey broke her hand and they went with this plan instead of having someone to help Paige be the anti-divas.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Anyone believe the report today that Cena is responsible for a complete change in the booking of the Diva's Revolution? I usually don't put much stock in this crap anymore, but I find the story mildly interesting because of how poorly I think this whole Diva's Revolution has played out so far.

What is the report? The "Divas Revolution" is more or less a bust but it'd be interesting to see the thinking behind it. Because it currently seems like they're just stalling for time so they can spite AJ Lee.

[dubb93]

Basically that it was supposed to be the four horsewoman (well 3 with the injury) angle with a night 1 Diva's title change and that he went to Vince McMahon and used his pull over the Bella's being jobbed out like that and got a complete rewrite and redesign of the angle.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The company hasn't had a great feud/story since Punk-Cena. NXT has put together two women's feuds in the last few months that have been better than any Divas crap we've seen in over a decade.

Can you have one if the Authority is in power for 3 years and never changes (minus Orton leaving and nothing happening with it). They have had the worst luck with injuries but they seem to have a 3 PPV limit on a story line as of late.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Anyone believe the report today that Cena is responsible for a complete change in the booking of the Diva's Revolution? I usually don't put much stock in this crap anymore, but I find the story mildly interesting because of how poorly I think this whole Diva's Revolution has played out so far.

If they were in any way serious, step 1 would be to drop the name 'Divas' and call it the Women's Championship.

You can easily keep the show named Divas and rename the belt/division. It's fucking ridiculous to keep it as-is and spout this BS about a revolution in Women's sports.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Basically that it was supposed to be the four horsewoman (well 3 with the injury) angle with a night 1 Diva's title change and that he went to Vince McMahon and used his pull over the Bella's being jobbed out like that and got a complete rewrite and redesign of the angle.

And really, isn't the reality of this angle the worst possible outcome? If you were going to revamp the women's division, I could think of a million ways to do it, all with an explosive beginning that changes everything. To just put in some NXT talent and make the matches slightly longer, it really doesn't change anything. I think Sasha Banks is amazing, and they've devalued her so quickly in just a few weeks.

With the rash of callups from NXT at the same time, shouldn't they have started a new faction and made a big deal out of them? Most of them have been marginalized so quickly, they were more valuable in NXT than they are now. That's both the men's and women's division.

I actually don't want to see anybody get called up, because they are so much more interesting and entertaining in NXT. What has Neville done, other than wrestle entertaining matches? They give you no reason to care for these people, and then when they see that no one cares, they will push the guys to lower midcard status where 90% of their roster currently lies.

I wish the WWE would give me reasons to care for more wrestlers, and make the matches mean more than "nothing" which they currently do. Now I'm off to watch the 2nd half of Summerslam, hopefully I haven't missed too much.

[cthomer5000]

Any NXT fan actively doesn't want to see people called up at this point. It simply feels like a "Waiting for Vince to retire/die" situation at this point. HHH clearly has a vision, and it's working, but he clearly doesn't have enough pull at the top level yet to really implement them.

The NXT callups for the Women feel completely pointless right now.

[RainMaker]

[cthomer5000]

Main event reaction: Really?