Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I always been curious, why are they having a debate on a Friday night?

Well Sunday is football. Saturday? No one is home, is the thought. Friday night?

McCain is coming off defensive and is trying to take the shine off Obama's apple by turning him into a regular ol' Democrat.

Seems Barry isn't gonna have it. I think it's an even debate, but Obama is coming off really strong thus far.

[Young Drachma]

Seems McCain watched a lot of the Hillary debate and realizes how important it is to get the last word in.

[Young Drachma]

Is he wooing the base tonight, McCain is? Who is he talking to?

[Calis]

I want to strangle politicians when they sit there with the snarky smartass smile on their face while the other one is speaking. It's not endearing.

Tonight McCain is dominating that category.

[Young Drachma]

Miss Congeniality in the Senate? Wow. Debate Prep much, John?

[Vegas Vic]

"Six years ago (when I was in the Illinois senate) I stood up and opposed this war."

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Miss Congeniality in the Senate? Wow. Debate Prep much, John?

Twice...

[SirFozzie]

Now I see why McCain wanted such low expectations... he's playing into Obama's hands, as the McCain Temper comes to the fore..

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Now I see why McCain wanted such low expectations... he's playing into Obama's hands, as the McCain Temper comes to the fore..

I'm sure some will disagree, but as someone who isn't voting for either candidate, I agree...this thing isn't even a contest. McCain isn't coming off well at all and I doubt he'll convert anyone who wasn't already going to vote for him. I doubt Obama does either, but...he certainly has stepped his game up. At best, McCain is coming off sloppy and uninspiring, much less presidential.

[Young Drachma]

The way he says Pakistan is gonna make someone think that he's related to those Muslims over there.

[sterlingice]

The way they keep pronouncing it makes me think of South Park and the "no Towlie ban"

SI

[Young Drachma]

The long they stay on military stuff, the more likely that McCain is on his home turf. I don't know if it'll stick, because I'm not sure how much anyone who keeps hearing about the bailout really cares, other than "bring our kids home."

shrug.

[Crapshoot]

This is boring. Seriously - make it no holds barred.

[Crapshoot]

There's always a failed state in Pakistan! It has been so for 40 years!

[SirFozzie]

This is the problem with the 4 minutes to reply, then 5 minutes free form.. instead of debates, you have the candidates talking over each other to get their soundbites out

[Young Drachma]

Is McCain the change candidate? Or the experience candidate? He's following the Clinton playbook against Obama, because I guess they figure it worked. But McCain isn't Hillary and Obama has learned a bit since then.

[sterlingice]

Not sure about the "I also have a bracelet" line and idea...

SI

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Not sure about the "I also have a bracelet" line and idea...

SI

In a way, it's a completely awesome burn.. that Obama knew that McCain was going to do that line, and countered it.. but yeah, risky on both sides

[Young Drachma]

I don't think what resonates in the right wing blogosphere is gonna pull people to McCain's side.

But if he keeps saying it over and over again, maybe something he says about Obama "not understanding" will stick.

[SirFozzie]

Is what I'm reading true, that McCain is proposing a UN volume 2, with just democracies?

[Big Fo]

[sterlingice]

Stumbling through Ahmadinejad and Peristroika didn't help McCain, especially with Obama's little patronizing "that's ok".

SI

[Maple Leafs]

Random question, but can anyone recommend any good conservative (US) blogs for my RSS feed? I have Coulter for comedy and Frum, and Sullivan who was supposed to be conservative but we know how that turned out. Anyone out there who's toughtful and posts fairly frequently?

[timmynausea]

For some of these, McCain is like a newswriter that keeps trying to write long, fluffy leads and won't put the who, what, when, where and why right up front. He goes into abstract territory and likes to resolve a long list of ideas with the gist of the concept, which seems like a really poor debate strategy. Throw in the bitter/temper stuff, and I think it has been a poor showing for him. He does much better when directly responding to something Obama has said, in my opinion.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Stumbling through Ahmadinejad and Peristroika didn't help McCain, especially with Obama's little patronizing "that's ok".

SI

I bet Obama was saying the name mentally over and over again to make sure he didn't screw up the name

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Random question, but can anyone recommend any good conservative (US) blogs for my RSS feed? I have Coulter for comedy and Frum, and Sullivan who was supposed to be conservative but we know how that turned out. Anyone out there who's toughtful and posts fairly frequently?

American Conservative Blog (I went to college and was active in a conservative student org with one of the bloggers here is the associate editor at AmCon) Their take is usually not as party line as the rest.
The Next Right
Red State
http://www.powerlineblog.com/
http://www.moonbattery.com/

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Random question, but can anyone recommend any good conservative (US) blogs for my RSS feed? I have Coulter for comedy and Frum, and Sullivan who was supposed to be conservative but we know how that turned out. Anyone out there who's toughtful and posts fairly frequently?

David Frum is interesting, but he has issues in the sense that he actually admits there are things wrong with the Right. I also like Ross Douhat over at The Atlantic (a great site in general).

[Young Drachma]

Here's Reason's blog too. Libertarian, to be sure, but far more to the right than to the left.

Hit & Run - Reason Magazine

[JPhillips]

Dan Drezner is a good read.

[SirFozzie]

Way to go off wool-gathering, McCain.. he got asked about 9/11 and if we're safer, and he spent his time resorting to a campaign speech about being a MAVERICK... but then wrapped it up with one sentence 'So we're safer, but not SAFE yet"

[RPI-Fan]

On Intrade, immediately before the debate, it was Obama +12 (or so)... now it's Obama +7.

[SirFozzie]

McCain accusing Obama of being too much like Bush??? Are we living in Bizarro World???

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

McCain accusing Obama of being too much like Bush??? Are we living in Bizarro World???

I had similar thoughts when they talked about Parkistan. I swore they took the positions of their political opposite.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I had similar thoughts when they talked about Parkistan. I swore they took the positions of their political opposite.

That was weird. I thought for a minute that Obama was going to call McCain a pussy.

[SirFozzie]

Well, the feeling that I have right now, is that this was pretty much a 10-10 round in boxing, neither side really landed any real telling blows.. and this was McCain's home ground

[JPhillips]

Yeah, I saw it as a pretty dull draw. I should have stayed with the football game.

[Flasch186]

My thoughts:

I thought the setup with the 2-2-5 was terrible. You ended up getting less info and it seemed uncomfortable, which is a shame.

I thought McCain did a very good job tonight.

I thought that Obama did well and he did take a risk with the bracelet line.

Perhaps, due to the low expectations (sorry Mizzou you were so wrong here) I was surprised by McCain and one could argue that his upside was bigger and I think therefore he wouldve won tonight.

So even if it was a draw, that means McCain did better than Obama.


some negatives:

If anything Obama was too polite allowing McCain to get the last word or leave a "John, that's not true moment" unclarified.

John needed desperately to make eye contact with Obama. It didnt speak well of respect for your opponent HOWEVER if this isnt pointed out by pundits Im not sure the laymen will see it as a big deal. Oh his saying that Kennedy was in the hospital when he was actually released from it already and on his way home was a slight mishap of information...not his fault but left me kind of thinking something was amiss there.

and:

Im not sure anyone wouldve been swayed by tonight but I definitely will se how Hawkish people will love McCain and Doves will like Obama.

For me......


I think McCain wins tonight. Now let me go to FactCheck.org and start deducting points for lying. that could sway the decision on the Flasch winner dramatically.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Well, the feeling that I have right now, is that this was pretty much a 10-10 round in boxing, neither side really landed any real telling blows.. and this was McCain's home ground

+1

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

+1

+2

Draw goes to Obama I would think. He showed he can hold his own on Foreign Policy against a guy who should have mopped the floor with him on this issue.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

My thoughts:

I thought the setup with the 2-2-5 was terrible. You ended up getting less info and it seemed uncomfortable, which is a shame.

I thought McCain did a very good job tonight.

I thought that Obama did well and he did take a risk with the bracelet line.

Perhaps, due to the low expectations (sorry Mizzou you were so wrong here) I was surprised by McCain and one could argue that his upside was bigger and I think therefore he wouldve won tonight.

So even if it was a draw, that means McCain did better than Obama.


some negatives:

If anything Obama was too polite allowing McCain to get the last word or leave a "John, that's not true moment" unclarified.

John needed desperately to make eye contact with Obama. It didnt speak well of respect for your opponent HOWEVER if this isnt pointed out by pundits Im not sure the laymen will see it as a big deal. Oh his saying that Kennedy was in the hospital when he was actually released from it already and on his way home was a slight mishap of information...not his fault but left me kind of thinking something was amiss there.

and:

Im not sure anyone wouldve been swayed by tonight but I definitely will se how Hawkish people will love McCain and Doves will like Obama.

For me......


I think McCain wins tonight. Now let me go to FactCheck.org and start deducting points for lying. that could sway the decision on the Flasch winner dramatically.

point by analysts on CNN though - if this was supposed to be McCain's strongest topics where he is clearly better than McCain, if he can only manage a 10-10 draw isn't that a loss? Tie-goes-to-the-runner type of thing...

[DaddyTorgo]

DaddyTorgo (10:53:44 PM): good point on cnn here
DaddyTorgo (10:53:50 PM): by this lady (gloria berger?)

DaddyTorgo (10:54:06 PM): that obama attacked mccain on policy and tied him to bush and their independent focus group was okay with that
DaddyTorgo (10:54:25 PM): but mccain's attacks on obama were more "you don't understand" and condescending, and their focus group of independents reacted negatively to that

[ISiddiqui]

I think Obama played defensively waaay too much. McCain was more on offense. Obama could have hammered McCain a few times if he wanted to, but mostly out of Obama, you heard a lot of "John/Senator McCain is right" while McCain said a lot of "Senator Obama just doesn't understand", etc.

It made Obama look like he was following along. Based on policies, it was even, but on how they conducted themselves, McCain gets a slight victory.

And a majority of people thought Obama was going to win because of his eloquence on stump speeches (according to polling)... the expectations bar tends to be pretty big sometimes in these debates.

[Flasch186]

no, McCain, due to expectations needed to make up a lot of that to earn, what you call a draw, and I think he may have won, so he gained more ground than Obama extended...so no, McCain Won IMO tonight.

OH BUT IM BIASED. SO I take it all back!!!

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think Obama played defensively waaay too much. McCain was more on offense. Obama could have hammered McCain a few times if he wanted to, but mostly out of Obama, you heard a lot of "John/Senator McCain is right" while McCain said a lot of "Senator Obama just doesn't understand", etc.

It made Obama look like he was following along. Based on policies, it was even, but on how they conducted themselves, McCain gets a slight victory.

And a majority of people thought Obama was going to win because of his eloquence on stump speeches (according to polling)... the expectations bar tends to be pretty big sometimes in these debates.

I agree with you that McCain took more steps forward, but he also took more steps backward (the constant condescending "You just don't understand, Barack", the butchering of names, etcetera)

[JPhillips]

Why don't reporters just boycott the spin room? Nothing of any interest comes out of interviews with people who are paid to promote their candidate.

[DaddyTorgo]

did mccain's advisor just call mccain a once-in-a-lifetime political communicator? or did i mishear that?

edit: yeah i misheard apparently.

but yeah - the spin room is pretty much BS and partisan

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I agree with you that McCain took more steps forward, but he also took more steps backward (the constant condescending "You just don't understand, Barack", the butchering of names, etcetera)

I'm not sure the "you don't understand" is going to hurt him that much. Some people may not like it, but others may see it as Obama not having the same experience.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'm not sure the "you don't understand" is going to hurt him that much. Some people may not like it, but others may see it as Obama not having the same experience.

people are going to see it the way they wanted to to begin with, Im not sure the debates tonight will sway anyone.

[Dutch]

I agree this was pretty even, but not iwthout some wins and losses.

Obama Win:
The big score for Obama was the economy and suggesting 95% of Americans will get money from him if he's elected in the form of tax breaks.

McCain Win:
The big score for McCain was foreign policy and the discussion about "No preconditions w/ rogue leaders". He definately won there.

Obama Loss:
The "Great Orator", Obama came off as very dull and defensive and not like what I imagine him to be like at all. Snapping out "That's not true" made him sound like a 3rd grader.

McCain Loss:
McCain came off as awkwardly aggressive, stumbling over verbage and saying some weird shit like "When I was let out of prison" or "I put some folks into prison" that didn't come off right at all.

But most of the debate was very respectful and interesting enough for me to watch until the end. Although, as I throw my support to the Republicans, I did go and make my PB&J sandwich while Obama was talking...but it only took me a minute.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'm not sure the "you don't understand" is going to hurt him that much. Some people may not like it, but others may see it as Obama not having the same experience.

The people who'd see it as that, are the ones already inclined to vote for McCain. For an example of it, look at what DT referenced on the CNN.com focus group of independents (the people that McCain needs to win).. they felt it was an attack and condescending