Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Then again I think the live audience is a very small, even insignificant< amount of the total revenue stream to the point where I dont think WWE would care beyond the marketing.

SmallISH, but not insignificant. Their 2015 financials show it being around 20% of total revenue, not even 1/3rd of the media revenue but still more then 33% more than all merchandising revenue combined. (edit to add) Basically live events are still their #2 revenue stream and amount to more than all other sources -- aside from media -- combined.

They had over 20% growth in live event revenue 2015 v 2014 but that was driven primarily by an increase in ticket prices.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You hit a key point on this in your next post: the sheer number of hours being produced today.

The other big difference from that era to this one is the length of the storylines then vs now. Some of the GCW era storylines played out like they were written by George R.R. Martin.

But at the same time the WWE should be using this extra hours to help guys on the mic. This is how New Day got over. This is why Social Outcasts will get over. They have used the youtube/wwe exclusive parts to work on their mic skills.

I also think the WWE could really use a veteran making his own faction and taking over as a manager (Paul Elering, JJ Dillion, Skandor Akbar, etc.) They have plenty of road agents/trainers/announcers who could take over a spot like this.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by molson

I want more part-time guys. Sheamus wrestles on TV and PPV over 100 times a year. That's the thing I dislike about the modern product, the staleness of the roster and the over-exposure of everyone on it. The last thing I'd want Mania to be is matches with the same guys we see the other 100+ shows a year. Undertaker v. Sheamus would be an OK match, but Shane v. Undertaker sends me the signal that this will be over-the-top sports entertainment shenanigan-fest that we don't see every week, and I want to see at least one match like that at every big show.

Look at the UFC... McGregor is the biggest draw in the game, but tickets for the March show are lagging behind, since he just fought in December. Imagine if he fought on FOX and on PPV every week, he wouldn't even be a draw at all anymore.

One of the things I would do in the WWE is to slow things down. You don't see the big stars wrestle every week. You make each match mean a lot more, so big ring entrances, video packages, etc. The matches last longer. And then they talk about the repercussions afterwards. Because you end up putting in less matches per week, you get less burnout. And with the matches maybe meaning something, it keeps people's attention.

What's happened over the years is that they've taught us that the match results mean nothing, and actual matches are boring ... it's the 20 minute talking spots that are exciting. They really need us to unlearn that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

They really need us to unlearn that.

I don't think they're getting that cat back into the bag.

[RainMaker]

Part of the problem is they don't put any effort into the midcard. Tough to fill out all those hours if you've made it clear the only thing that matters is the main event.

[jbergey22]

Personally, for the very reasons talked about I love squash matches. Matches are boring unless they mean something so let squash matches build the storyline and set up the matches that mean something(PPV). A big reason why the WWE stinks right now is because of predictability. If you were to see Shaemus dominating opponents for the past 6 months have him put a serious beatdown to someone like Cena on Raw. You can build a storyline around that with an outcome that we dont already know the results. Instead we get this hot shot booking from week to week that makes no sense and builds into a story that no one cares about.

WWE seems to have even forgotten the #1 rule of booking 1. The wrestlers have to have a reason to fight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

WWE seems to have even forgotten the #1 rule of booking 1. The wrestlers have to have a reason to fight.

With the demise of kayfabe, they all have the same reason: a paycheck.

If they're good enough actors we might be able to forget that for a little while but I'm not sure how many people past 10 years old really don't have that in mind anymore.

Which would play right into the discussion about how what happens outside the ring now means more than the actual matches

[Neon_Chaos]

I think that once Vince is really out of the picture, Trips will have the elbow room to really move things towards a better direction.

Heck, he's basically turned NXT into a really good indy promotion within the WWE.

[cartman]

The Fabulous Freebirds will be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame prior to Wrestlemania 32 at Jerry's World.

The Fabulous Freebirds to be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame’s Class of 2016

[JonInMiddleGA]

Watched a quick "top 10 power moves" of Shane McMahon thing & it really goes with what I'd said after a short clip I saw earlier: he approaches his spots like a guy who goes bungie jumping. There's this moment where he just says "screw it" and goes.

[miami_fan]

Rhyno speaks on his decision to run for State Representative in Michigan

[IlliniCub]

I bet his political hero is Al GORE

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Rhyno speaks on his decision to run for State Representative in Michigan

Originally Posted by IlliniCub

I bet his political hero is Al GORE

Must say, I didn't see that coming...

[Toddzilla]

Big Boss Man? Really?

[IlliniCub]

Is it bad I imagined Big Show inducting him and coming to stage dragging Bossman's casket behind him. Oh the attitude era and the fond memories.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Big Boss Man? Really?

Yeah, this one had me scratching my head earlier today.

I'm not sure he even belongs in the Hall of Pretty Good

[molson]

Meltzer reports that the WWE has officially beaten their REAL all-time paid attendance number, they've legit sold 84,000 tickets for Mania as of 3/8. That's close to a sell-out, there's not much higher to go, but Meltzer expects that they'll still announce an attendance higher than the 93k they claimed for Mania 3 (which was not a real number, and not even close to the paid number).

And that really has nothing to do with this card, or any booking decisions they've made this year - it's pretty amazing what they've built this one event into. I'm kind of sad I've never gone .

[Mota]

Yeah, tickets selling have nothing to do with the matchups this year. People bought in before anything was really announced. It's Wrestlemania, and that's enough. The brand is strong, even though the product is pretty terrible.

I'm going to Roadblock on Saturday night. My son is super hyped for this show, it was supposed to be a house show when we first got the tickets, then it became a network special, and now it seems pretty darn close to a PPV with 3 title matches.

I'm excited to see Sami Zayn for the first time in a while, we met him at a wrestling convention back in 2010 when he was El Generico, my son was wearing his t-shirt when we bumped into him, and he spent several minutes with us, being super friendly, signing an autograph and a picture. The funny thing is that even though it was off the clock and a fluke meetup (between a wrestling convention and a show later that night in the same building), he stayed in character the entire time and pretended that he could barely speak English.

I'm sure Roadblock will be a good time! Live shows are always fun.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I think that once Vince is really out of the picture, Trips will have the elbow room to really move things towards a better direction.

Heck, he's basically turned NXT into a really good indy promotion within the WWE.

They've done a good job in leaning on real world stuff in the recent Shane McMahon storyline. Having him just be a mouthpiece for the fans and shit on HHH and Stephanie and blame them for running the company into the ground, referencing actual declining ratings, a ton of injuries, shitting on the Authority angle, and implicitly shitting on Roman Reigns is awesome. I know it won't lead to anything, but boy does the live crowd react in those moments.

[RainMaker]

Ambrose-HHH was real fun. Too bad that isn't the main event of Mania.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Ambrose-HHH was real fun. Too bad that isn't the main event of Mania.

I just can't get into any Ambrose match. Most his moves come off as really slow to me. As much as they shit on Roman I think he looks better in the ring most of the time. Ambrose looks like a video game that is lagging, especially when he does that turn around move.

[PilotMan]

I'll agree that Ambrose move set looks stale. I love his energy and when he hits Dirty Deeds, but his three trademark moves, the turnaround, the rope rock and the ring dive are all overdone.

{edit: Having said all that I'll be cheering loudly (along with everyone else) for him this week at the Smackdown taping in Cincy.}

[Toddzilla]

I got to attend the WWE house show in Atlantic City the night opposite Roadblock, so expectations were low. It was, however, a fantastic show. Since all of the pyro and stage set up were in Toronto, they had a scaled back entrance ramp that looked like an old TNA set up. Regardless, the matches were mostly a lot of fun from what I remember:

• Dolph Ziggler and the Uso's beat The Miz and the Dudleyz - standard curtain jerker. Triple super kick to Miz ended it.
• Ryback beat Tyler Breeze - I was impressed with Breeze, he's got potential. Ryback botched the shell-shock by dropping Breeze but he pinned him anyway and then ran to the back, clearly not wanting anything to do with the fans.
• Rusev (with Lana!) beat Sin Cara. Rusev is awesome and a future WWE champ IMO, he comes across like a monster in-person - so much better than on TV.
• Neville and Damien Sandow (!) beat Curtis Axel and Heath Slater. Neville was easily the highlight of the show, hitting the Red Arrow to win. Sandow is back to his old persona but as a face this time. He looked to hurt his shoulder mid-match.
• Kalisto beat Alberto Del Rio. Del Rio was fantastic, bumping all over the place for Kalisto at the end and taking Kalisto's finisher.
• Kane and the Big Show beat Erick Rowan and Braun Stroman. Miserable beyond words. Show and Kane are way too old to move anymore (especially Show) and Rowan and Stroman just flat out suck. Terrible.
• Sasha Banks and Becky Lynch beat Naomi and Tamina Snuka. The crowd was berserk for Becky. Tamina took Banks finisher wrong but Banks got her in the crossface quickly and got Tamina to tap.
• Main Event: Kevin Owens beat AJ Styles in a 30-minute Iron Man match. This was the surprise main event and it was pretty slow for 10 minutes until one of my friends got sick and threw up in the seat next to him and we had to leave. I'd have liked to see the entire match but I've read I didn't miss much. Owens had the crowd eating out of his hands as you'd expect. He went over to sign a kid's title belt but took the pen and threw it into the crowd. He then grabbed a pro-AJ poster from another kid and ripped it to shreds. Great stuff.

What stood out for me was how much the wrestlers played to the crowd. With no cameras and no talking segments all of them really worked the crowd, especially Bubba Ray, Rusev, Bo Dallas (cheering on Axel and Slater, "Those guys are my best friends!"), Del Rio, Erick Rowan, and Kevin Owens. Just awesome interactions with the fans ringside and in the arena to draw exactly the kind of reaction they wanted. Most hung out after their matches to sign autographs and shake hands.

[murrayyyyy]

And Neville broke his leg last night so I will be attending the worst Wrestlemania ever as Heath Slater may involved in the final match at this pace.

[PilotMan]

Just got back home from the Smackdown taping. We had a good time, not quite as fun of an atmosphere as Raw, but good. No spoilers from me, nothing super amazing happened, nobody got hurt. Ambrose cut a couple of good promos that popped and it was fun to see Flair, who consequently, was on the wrestling team with my Dad in high school. Just a little fun fact for you there.

So many guys were there, it seemed like they were really pressed to get everyone a little camera time. Some guys were only out for a couple minutes.

Ahh well, it was a good night out for the boy and I.

[molson]

Gawker jobs to Hulk Hogan for $115 million.

Hulk Hogan Get $115 Million in Gawker Sex Tape Suit | Variety

Edit: And that doesn't include punitive damages, which are determined next week. And apparently in Florida, in order to appeal a monetary judgment you have to post a bond equal to half of the judgment, plus interest.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by molson

Gawker jobs to Hulk Hogan for $115 million.

Hulk Hogan Get $115 Million in Gawker Sex Tape Suit | Variety

Edit: And that doesn't include punitive damages, which are determined next week. And apparently in Florida, in order to appeal a monetary judgment you have to post a bond equal to half of the judgment, plus interest.

Weird, I checked Gawker and the story isn't up yet... and ya know what, good for Hogan. You can't take a stance every time a woman is involved but when it's a man try to bury him.

[NobodyHere]

Does anyone want to tape me banging their wife and not get my permission about taping it?

[murrayyyyy]

Watch Lucha Underground Season 2 Episode 9 S02E09 3/23/16

And Mysterio finally shows up in the temple for Aztec Warfare 2 (pretty much their Royal Rumble)

[SirFozzie]

That American Alpha/Revival tag team match was the best southern style tag team match you'll see in the 2010's.

So many perfect call outs. Steiner Bros, Midnight Express, Rock and Roll Express, Rockers, Arn and Tully.. one or two mistakes in spots, but that was a GREAT match.

[cthomer5000]

I thought Takeover was tomorrow. Was super happy to find out it was tonight. Pumped for the Bayley/Asuka and Zayn/Nakumura matches. I feel a little bit bad for the Balor/Samoa Joe "main event" when it almost certainly overshadowed by the Nakamura match, if not both the prior matches.

[SirFozzie]

And. Here. We. Go.

[SirFozzie]

That freakin elbow battle. HOLY SHIT. The Monster Bleeds!

[RainMaker]

NXT is so good.

[SirFozzie]

Can we reserve two spots on the Match of the Year vote for matches 1 and 3 so far?

And the 2nd match was deliberately slow.

[SirFozzie]

Edit: How can BAYLEY/ASUKA and fucking FINN BALOR/SAMOA JOE FOLLOW THIS?

[cthomer5000]

Exactly. I can see the women's match being great... but geez, the crowd is going to be SPENT come that final one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My kid -- who joins you all in raving since he's been watching live (I'll catch up later) -- tells me that we had a Botchamania chant earlier.

I love this crowd

Sidebar: am I the first/only person to ever mention a facial resemblance & mannerism similarity between Bayley & John Cena, or is that some sort of "thing"?

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, the first match had a botch, in a double team move but it didn't matter. still awesome.

And the great thing is they're running a very slow match to bring the crowd back down after the 100% balls to the Wall of Nakamura/Zayn (Nakamura's t-shirt may be the first wrestling shirt I buy), and then go all out with the main event, but this is still a VERY good match.

[SirFozzie]

Right Result, but man, the air just went out of me, even though I KNOW it's predetermined, but damn, they pulled me in at the end.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I absolutely love the finish of the women's match. Not the outcome, I don't know that I cared that much who won, but the way the finish played out. They resisted the urge to turn it into a "wwe finish" and let it play itself out in what felt like a Japanese style (IMO anyway)

[SirFozzie]

From Asuka/Bayley it Switches to *Wrestlemania Promo* First thing is "Roman Reigns"

95% of those watching.. *BOOOOOOOO!!"

[cthomer5000]

It's really hard to not love where NXT is at right now. Such an incredible mix of upcoming and foreign talent. I constantly feel like they're just winking at the audience and implying "please, just bare with us until Vince retires/dies."

If they keep making quality decisions with their developmental league, the main roster should be in good shape once they finally sweep out the old guard.

[SirFozzie]

NXT just got Roode, Kota.. I think NXT is a real life game of TEW, and Triple H has the cheat codes.

[SirFozzie]

Joe at .4 Muta scale already.

(edit: Make that Half-Muta. Already)

[JonInMiddleGA]

And the EMTs are killing this match :/

[TLK]

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by TLK

Vince: Make Roman look strong!

Lackey: uhh, Roman isn't in this match?!

Vince: I said - MAKE ROMAN LOOK STRONG GODDAMNIT!!!!!!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Meh, weak ass finish.

[SirFozzie]

Means the feud must continue. Balor summoned the Demon, Joe's going to bring Back up next time