Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[SirFozzie]

Last Man Standing? Steel Cage Match? THe first ever NXT Hell in a Cell? Joe is doubly protected (the cut always being cleaned gave Balor a chance to recover, and the semi weak finish.), and third time is going to be a war.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Means the feud must continue. Balor summoned the Demon, Joe's going to bring Back up next time

I keep expecting "Balor Club" to form up, maybe Roode is Joe's initial backup & that prompts Balor to find human reinforcements?

At that point Styles to NXT for a proper 3 v 3?

Then turn Joe on Styles down the line, reunite him with Balor?

[SirFozzie]

And you notice the finish played into the clip they played coming from after the first match "I didn't beat him. I barely survived him".

It's happened again. So, now Joe has reason to demand a heavy duty match. They can keep running with this through the permutations if they do multimans for months.

[SirFozzie]

How do you rank the matches.

5. Austin Aries/Baron Corbin They had to do a crowd killer match, but they did a good one with a coherent story, the man the Smarks love, versus the man the world loathes.

4. Finn/Joe Calling this the second worst match of the night is not a horrible thing. It was a further the feud match instead of a decisive thing, and still was very good, with the minuses of WWE's rules on blood.

3. Asuka/Bayley. I'm only putting this #3 because the right person won STORY wise, but the air just went out of the building people wise when Bayley went out. I don't think they're sending Bayley up just yet, but we'll see. Again, a slower match because the crowd had just come off a huge match, but they told a GREAT story with some freakin awesome hope spots for Bayley (the blocks of the strikes, and the grab into the arm bar? Choice)

2. American Alpha/Revival This match WAS a revival, a revival of the awesome southern style matches that the Midnight Express and Rock and Roll Express made famous. So many teases of the hot tag, and the crowd was JUUUUUST on the edge of having blue balls at all the teases, and then, BOOM, hot tag, "TIME TO KICK IT UP A NOTCH."

1. Nakamura/Zayn If this is not on anyone's MOTY ballot, they either didn't watch it and hate little guys and Puro-style matches, or they're clinically brain-dead when it comes to wrestling. That Elbow fest. Those moves. The facial expressions. Even what they changed Nakamura's finish name to made sent (Kinshasa was where the Rumble in the Jungle took place, and the fans chanted "Ali, BOMA YE" (Ali, Kill him, the Boma Ye is the Japanese name for the finisher.).. it calls to that and is AWESOME for the announcer to scream when he hits.)

[SirFozzie]

The theme for Nakamura is up, if you missed it. Holy shit. WWE has been knocking it out of the park with theme music.

Shinsuke Nakamura - The Rising Sun (Official Theme) - YouTube

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I keep expecting "Balor Club" to form up, maybe Roode is Joe's initial backup & that prompts Balor to find human reinforcements?

At that point Styles to NXT for a proper 3 v 3?

Then turn Joe on Styles down the line, reunite him with Balor?

Joe/Roode/Aries vs Balor Club?

Throw in Styles, Nakamura, Corbin (actually, put Corbin with Joe and Roode) in some mesasure, and then give them 45 minutes.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

The theme for Nakamura is up, if you missed it. Holy shit. WWE has been knocking it out of the park with theme music.

Shinsuke Nakamura - The Rising Sun (Official Theme) - YouTube

That is really good. Love the violin.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Joe at .4 Muta scale already.

(edit: Make that Half-Muta. Already)

LOVE the Muta scale - thank you for reppin

[Mota]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

The theme for Nakamura is up, if you missed it. Holy shit. WWE has been knocking it out of the park with theme music.

Shinsuke Nakamura - The Rising Sun (Official Theme) - YouTube

Great song for sure.

Interesting thing is that the notes in the main riff are extremely similar to the main riff of Sami Zayn's theme. The biggest difference is that the notes in Sami's theme start low and go higher, for a happier tone, where in Shinsuke's theme, they start with the higher notes and go lower, for a darker feeling.

[APC]

Why is Joe not on the main roster feuding with Lesnar?

Vince must not like making money as much as he used to.

[molson]

NXT, as a mini-promotion, was good from the start, but one thing that worried me about it was that the WWE was just going to become this factory wrestler-creator that created the same brand of wrestler over and over and over again. WWE has that issue where it can sometimes be like an older video game where everybody looks a little different but they all work and act pretty much the same.

So I really like the NXT 2.0 (or 3.0) philosophy of just buying up established guys from all over the world. I don't watch New Japan so I've never seen Nakamura before. That guy has mannerisms and facial expressions and a style of carying himself that nobody trained by the WWE (or maybe anywhere in North America) would ever have. This is truly a guy from somewhere else, who has a different style of doing things, and that made him very fun to watch.

[molson]

Originally Posted by APC

Why is Joe not on the main roster feuding with Lesnar?

Vince must not like making money as much as he used to.

Meltzer thought the loser of Joe/Balor would be heading up right after Mania. We'll see. Joe/Balor obviously isn't over, but they usually have that 1-2 month overlap when they move up. But they also seem to be trying to expand the NXT brand to make it a money-maker in its own right. Joe and Nakamura were both pretty big investments - both are are making top-half-of-the-card main roster money right now

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sometimes I really hope I'm wrong about something. This is one of those times.

At the end of Balor/Joe last night my gut said "we've just seen the end of the biggest push Joe is going to get from Vince".

I'm probably wrong, that's certainly against the prevailing wisdom right now. But that's what my gut said :/

[Maple Leafs]

Love this:

[cthomer5000]

This ladder match is delivering some crazy spots. This is better than I expected really.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This is pretty crazy. Saw the matches I was most interested in AND won't miss any of the TWD season finale.

Under the old model that wouldn't have happened, I'd have skipped rather than pay premium pricing to watch half a PPV.

Thanks Network.

[RainMaker]

OK Shane is insane.

[jbergey22]

Hmm, well the predictability of UT and Lesnar winning made the actual results unpredictable.

[jbergey22]

16 years later and the attitude era is still carrying the WWE. The matches themselves have actually been good. Problem is the build up and "care" factor of the matches.

[RainMaker]

Damn they had to turn the sound down so much to drown out Roman's boos.

[RainMaker]

I get you want Roman to get over but killing the crowd mics and turning up the announcers just makes it feel dead for your main event.

[SirFozzie]

Never seen them push someone so much as a hero that the crowd just won't take.

[RainMaker]

Are they just going to have no live mics tomorrow night?

[jbergey22]

Was expecting some sort of swerve in either Lesner/Ambrose, or UT/McMahon, Roman/HHH. Nothing really felt resolved and nothing really to look forward to going forward. Impressive feat in 6-7 hours of booking in the biggest event of the year.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Are they just going to have no live mics tomorrow night?

The announcers kind of changed gears part way through. "Roman doesnt care who likes him or who doesnt like him he just wants to be the man"

Maybe they are not going to continue the hero push.

[RainMaker]

I just think it's dumb to completely mute the crowd during your main event. Crowd was into the show most of the night and then you get a really weird sounding main event. I'm sure they'll pipe in fake cheers a la Smackdown on the replays but it's pretty embarrassing they have to go to that kind of effort.

Just push someone the fans actually like.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I just think it's dumb to completely mute the crowd during your main event. Crowd was into the show most of the night and then you get a really weird sounding main event. I'm sure they'll pipe in fake cheers a la Smackdown on the replays but it's pretty embarrassing they have to go to that kind of effort.

Just push someone the fans actually like.

This would require the writers and bookers to actually think. And well Vince is still stuck in 1987. Anything other than Hulk Hogan or a clone is hard for him to trust. Vince already formed an opinion on Roman and Ambrose. Apparently, it is too difficult for the writers to change up Ambrose gimmick a bit so he can be a legit champion.

[RainMaker]

Streamable - simple video sharing

[SirFozzie]

Bill Simmons just posted this video of the Shane-o-Mac dive.

Share your adventures with your friends realtime by Bill Simmons (BillSimmons) on Mobypicture

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Streamable - simple video sharing

Yes, Roman Reigns is the worst champion in the history of the WWE. He is now a 3 time champ, which also matches the number of people that were cheering for him tonight out of the 101,000 fans.

[Ryche]

Balor Club/Bulletproof better show up tonight.

[APC]

WWE is so terrible right now. And word is they grossed about $18 million last night (up about $6 million from last year's Mania) so nothing will change.

No doubt they're patting themselves on the back for booking a WM main event featuring HHH/RR that bumped attendance by 30,000 and revenues by $6 million compared to last year's WM.

[Neuqua]

I thought outside the main event last night was a really good show. The last match just seemed so, anti-climactic.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

I thought outside the main event last night was a really good show. The last match just seemed so, anti-climactic.

The matches themselves were all fine. The storylines just didnt add to the matches at all and the results were so predictable that is was unpredictable. Normally we would atleast see some sort of swerve or something to throw the fans off. It was like a movie where you guess correctly on the ending 15 minutes in. I suppose the AJ/Jericho result was unexpected but IMO that result made zero sense. That win would have done so much for AJ where as it helped Jericho in no way.

Still not even sure what the point of the Undertaker/Shane match was. It accomplished nothing except a memorable Shane spot. It was such a strange matchup I actually thought something odd was going to happen during the match, as it turns out Undertaker just went over someone he should have easily gone over.

The fans seem to be very interested in Ambrose right now so booking him in a match against the beast also made little sense unless he were to shock the world. Is the WWE trying to stall Ambrose momentum so it hopefully shifts over to Roman??? Who knows what the thought process is.

New Day was pushed the entire weekend even by the Freebirds and they lose.

The entire Roman empire thing needs to be re-done. He is a decent worker but the booking making the fans spew all over him. Hide his weaknesses and work to his strengths. He could be a decent champion if he had a mouthpiece to go with him. He certainly should not be booked as the face of the company. He will never be that.

I mean I am not a booker/writer and never will be but it is so odd that these guys will stall an over workers momentum just to try and push someone that isnt over. Booking 101 is setting a matchup that people care about. Of all the matches last night, which ones did anyone really care about? Ambrose/Lesnar? Anything else really?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The matches themselves were all fine. The storylines just didnt add to the matches at all and the results were so predictable that is was unpredictable.

I'd disagree on the predictability, since based on the betting odds half the matches were flipping in the final hours. But the rest of this is bang on. The matches are always fine -- the quality of the ring work today is just so far ahead of a decade or two ago that we just take for granted how good it is. But none of it adds up to anything, because the creative is so lazy and paint-by-numbers.

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Still not even sure what the point of the Undertaker/Shane match was. It accomplished nothing except a memorable Shane spot.

I'm guessing it sets up tonight, where they find a way to just go ahead and do the Shane/RAW transfer anyway. A beaten up Shane challenging Vince, maybe? Remember, the RAW after Mania is the only one where anything is actually allowed to happen, so they can just ignore last night and undo or redo anything they want.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by APC

WWE is so terrible right now. And word is they grossed about $18 million last night (up about $6 million from last year's Mania) so nothing will change.

No doubt they're patting themselves on the back for booking a WM main event featuring HHH/RR that bumped attendance by 30,000 and revenues by $6 million compared to last year's WM.

To borrow something I just said on the phone a few minutes ago in relation to my work "It's hard to win an argument with a man who owns two airplanes when you own none"

And, honestly, it's kinda hard for me to beat them up for being stupid when they just sold out that stadium while I'm eating .99 hot dogs & feel like Oscar Meyer balogna is an extravagant purchase.

[Suicane75]

Dear god that show was shit. Bad booking, passable wrestling, nothing meant fucking nothing when it was all said and done. And it went SEVEN FUCKING HOURS. They've marginalized everything else, now they've marginalized Wrestlemania.

[RainMaker]

I don't think anything will come from the Shane/Taker match. I think with all the injuries they needed something else for the card and paid Shane a bunch to come back for a match. I remember reading that Shane wanted his kids to see him wrestle once too.

The company is going to Steph/HHH someday so not sure what Shane would do anymore.

[Suicane75]

Looking back on the Shane match, it's ironic that the storyline impetus for his return was that he wanted to save the company from the shit show it has become, and then last night they didn't play up the angle at all, the announcers barely, if at all, brought it up. No Vince, no Stephanie, no Shane, no HHH promo in regards to it. The whole thing just turned out to be masturbation for Shane.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Mota

Yes, Roman Reigns is the worst champion in the history of the WWE. He is now a 3 time champ, which also matches the number of people that were cheering for him tonight out of the 101,000 fans.

I would argue he is a very good heel champion. I haven't really watched much wrestling since the late 90s/early 2000s, but I can't remember anyone drawing the kind of heat is able to get other then maybe Vince himself. Of course, having your two biggest heel wrestlers face off in the main event of Wrestlemania or any PPV makes no sense. Trying to market Reigns as your top face when he isn't that doesn't make sense either.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by Racer

I would argue he is a very good heel champion. I haven't really watched much wrestling since the late 90s/early 2000s, but I can't remember anyone drawing the kind of heat is able to get other then maybe Vince himself. Of course, having your two biggest heel wrestlers face off in the main event of Wrestlemania or any PPV makes no sense. Trying to market Reigns as your top face when he isn't that doesn't make sense either.

The irony is they keep trying to have a "Corporate Champion" but they won't let Reigns or Cena, the two ultimate expressions of this, turn heel and play their natural role.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Owens is just so good.

Meanwhile, it's just to the point of being comically brutal how the crowd feels about Reigns. Jericho calls the crowd idiots, but they pop when he challenges Reigns. Owens cuts a straight heel promo, they cheer when he promises to end the Roman empire.

I'm not sure Reigns could get a face pop if he faced ISIS.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I mean I am not a booker/writer and never will be but it is so odd that these guys will stall an over workers momentum just to try and push someone that isnt over. Booking 101 is setting a matchup that people care about. Of all the matches last night, which ones did anyone really care about? Ambrose/Lesnar? Anything else really?

They are a monopoly, they can do whatever they want and get away with it. If they did this for more than a year in the 70's, they'd be out of business.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And props to the crowd for coming up with a "Women's Wrestling" chant during that title belt intro.

Seriously, it's been too long in coming, there's been really no excuse for the lack of actual women's wrestling in the U.S. for quite a while. There's been plenty of talent here, beyond time for this shift.

Now if only any of them could, you know ... talk.

[Maple Leafs]

Ha ha, post-Mania Raw crowds are the best!

(They're not.)

They're so hilarious!

(They're really not.)

Those chants are so irreverent!

(Please stop doing this.)

This is so much better than letting the performers put on the show they intended!

(Die, all of you.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

And while I'm dola posting ... I'm happy to see some new talent (or at least fresh) getting air time but the kayfabe in me isn't crazy about a #1 contenders four way featuring two guys that lost less than 24 hours ago.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Ryche

The irony is they keep trying to have a "Corporate Champion" but they won't let Reigns or Cena, the two ultimate expressions of this, turn heel and play their natural role.

Well they need to have Reigns be the Corporate Champion then. He already is, but disguised in a good guy package. But he is the management's chosen one, the guy that's less talented than tons of guys but gets the big push.

I'm sure he could be successful as a heel. Make him the chosen one, who is given all kinds of advantages over the faces and he keeps the title that way. In other words, exactly what he's like in real life.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Ha ha, post-Mania Raw crowds are the best!

(They're not.)

They're so hilarious!

(They're really not.)

Those chants are so irreverent!

(Please stop doing this.)

This is so much better than letting the performers put on the show they intended!

(Die, all of you.)

Eh, giving the pain of hearing Charlotte I'd be inclined to go with the crowd chants as more entertaining. And at least some of those were positivity rather than heckling.

[Ryche]

Sigh. Crews and Baron up, no Balor, no Joe.

[RainMaker]

I have to think they are turning Roman heel. Payback is in Chicago and he isn't going to be cheered going against AJ Styles.