Maximum Football???

[Kodos]

This thread is approaching 150,000 views. So much made of so little!

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Marauders

As far as I recall, human team owners have always been able to draft their players live. One can set up a team profile for the draft, but that is only used by computer teams and human teams that wish not to select each round.

So head to head with real people I can hold a regular draft. But there's still no year by year draft pool generation, right? At least nothing that looks remotely like reality. And if you want to play solo against the AI, it's not a realistic draft either, right?

David has stated from day one that the first public release will not have GM features like salary cap and negotiations. Complaining about that is like complaining about FOF for not having 3D game graphics.

So MF does a lot of things poorly and some things not at all. Basically all I can tell that works in favor of MF is that it's customizable.

Maximum Football does have a draft and training camp.

A real draft with newly generated rookies, something that resembles reality?

How many 3D football games were out in 1997? I understand your point, but you are exaggerating here.

No, I'm not. There hasn't been a 3D football game that looked worse. The animation in this game is horrible, the models are OK by 8-9 years ago standards, the camera is awful. Name me a 3D football game that was worse to look at.

Madden went 3D in the '97 edition IIRC (released in '96).

[JPhillips]

If sttfrk is a pseudonym for Marauders or Daivd, kudos.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Madden went 3D in the '97 edition IIRC (released in '96).

Yup, that was the first one released on the Playstation (which was the 3D version. The old-gen versions of Madden 97 still used the 2D Sprites)

[sttfrk]

The graphics are most assuredly not as bad as you guys make them out to be. I think they are good and equal to Madden 2003, if not 2004. Unlike 95% (99%?) of you guys, I've played the game. I've readily admitted its faults and tried to correct the incredible amount of inaccuracies that have been posted here. The game is not perfect and never will be. It will always have faults that will require some work to overcome due to the fact it lets you play several different styles of football (college, pro, indoor, CFL).

It really is not that much different than the first or second version of any other game. I am not sure why it is vilified here as much as it is... nor do I care. Continue to ignore everyone that has the game and is trying to post their experiences and correct the grossly misleading statements that are being made. After all, it is more fun that way...

I have no real interest in arguing with anyone or trying to change anyone's opinion. I thought maybe there was some real interest in learning about the game in its current state, how it has improved, and what it can do. I realize now, that can never happen inside this thread.

I may still come in here and beat my head against the wall trying to give facts and actual in-game experiences from time to time, but will not continue to spend as much doing so as I did today.

Given this crew's views and willingness to dismiss the facts, I can understand why there isn't a demo available. I hope that people actually interested in the game won't find this thread until after they have found accurate and reliable information.

Even in its current state, the game still ranks ahead of FOF, Madden, and Second and Ten in my book. I don't expect anyone else to hold that opinion, but for me the game allows me to customize and configure the game in ways that aren't possible with any other game. Best of luck with your unabashed bashing, even if there is little to no truth in it...

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by sttfrk

The graphics are most assuredly not as bad as you guys make them out to be. I think they are good and equal to Madden 2003, if not 2004.

Here is a screen shot of Madden 2003:



(For bonus points, that's from the GameCube version)

http://www.armchairempire.com/Review...n-nfl-2003.htm

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by sttfrk

The graphics are most assuredly not as bad as you guys make them out to be. I think they are good and equal to Madden 2003, if not 2004.

Well sabs just blew up your spot on this one - so either you're completely delusional, you're lying to make a point, or just plain stupid.

Originally Posted by sttfrk

Unlike 95% (99%?) of you guys, I've played the game. I've readily admitted its faults and tried to correct the incredible amount of inaccuracies that have been posted here.

Dropping $50 for this doesn't add to your credibility, especially when you haven't corrected shit, you've just blindly claimed the opposite with no substance.

Originally Posted by sttfrk

It really is not that much different than the first or second version of any other game. I am not sure why it is vilified here as much as it is... nor do I care.

What? MF is *way* different than just about every other game in their first or second version - given that most games are playable out of the box and don't require days of "maximum customization" to get decent gameplay out of it.

Originally Posted by sttfrk

I have no real interest in arguing with anyone or trying to change anyone's opinion. I thought maybe there was some real interest in learning about the game in its current state, how it has improved, and what it can do. I realize now, that can never happen inside this thread.

Yet you're still here, hands over your ears saying "no no no no no" when someone points out something specifically messed up with the game. I believe the very existence of this thread speaks to the interest in how the game has improved, but you don't seem to allow for the fact that MF still needs to improve *a lot*.

Originally Posted by sttfrk

Given this crew's views and willingness to dismiss the facts, I can understand why there isn't a demo available.

That makes no fucking sense whatsoever. You and I both know why there isn't a demo available - the overwhelming backlash sure to follow from a wide audience of gamers given the opportunity to play the game.

Originally Posted by sttfrk

Even in its current state, the game still ranks ahead of FOF, Madden, and Second and Ten in my book. I don't expect anyone else to hold that opinion, but for me the game allows me to customize and configure lots of pretty uniforms in ways that aren't possible with any other game.

Fixed that last part for ya.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If sttfrk is a pseudonym for Marauders or Daivd, kudos.

I hope it is not a psuedonym for stat freak because that would make him a liar with this game.

[Toddzilla]

Speaking of people who bash the game...

I had it working almost exactly the way I wanted it to, then changed a setting or two and made the game unplayable. I haven't gone back and tried to fix it yet only because I don't have the amount of time necessary to devote to setting the league up the way I want and playing out every game... which is a necessity since the quick sim doesn't appear to use any of the custom league settings.

As it is right now, the game is still a long way from being a viable option (for me at least) to simulate a football league.

It can realistically and more importantly accurately sim any real world league, if the user is willing to put an enormous amount of time into the game and changing/tweaking its settings.

I would say version 3 will be a huge improvement with version 4 or 5 (if it makes it that far with all the disappointingly negative reviews)

Every game has to start somewhere, unfortunately for MF it choose to be everything to everyone instead of putting a solid game out

Nice, sttfrk

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If sttfrk is a pseudonym for Marauders or Daivd, kudos.

If some took from MF is using it as a pseudonym, it has got to be Jennifer Winter. Book it.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

I hope it is not a psuedonym for stat freak because that would make him a liar with this game.

DAMN YOU - beat me to it.

It makes sttfrk the most ironic. username. evar.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Speaking of people who bash the game...

Geez, he is bashing it more than 92.33749498987979% of the people who had written in this thread.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by sttfrk

The graphics are most assuredly not as bad as you guys make them out to be. I think they are good and equal to Madden 2003, if not 2004.

A-hahahahahahahaha!!! Good one!





Oh wait - you're serious?

There must obviously have been a tremendous amount of upgrades the player models, stadium models, textures and animations from what was recently posted in this thread then. Because from that evidence, this game has by far the worst animations and camera system of any 3D football game I've ever seen (and I worked on NFL Fever and played a ton of them). If I'm being generous, the player modeling is about at the level of the very first NFL Fever for the PC back in '99. The stadium modeling is not quite at that level.

Overall? It's about on par with 3D football games a decade old, if that.

[Tigercat]

The quality of the graphics are worse than Madden 98.
The animations are worse than 16-bit Maddens.

Vtbub's post gets right to the meat of the matter. Maximum Football may somehow strike a positive emotional chord with the very rare football gamer for God knows what reason; but the bottom line, it does no singular feature or combination of features better than other commercial football games currently available. And for 50 bucks? Yuck. And that is why it is a joke, pure and simple. I can't believe there are people that don't realize this.

[vtbub]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Vtbub's post gets right to the meat of the matter....

If only he could spell.

[Cringer]

I have made a decision.

Everyone send me $100 and I will make a game twice as good as M-F. I need the money first before I can really start though. That is how things are done right?

[DeftRevisited]

Here' s a screenshot of a 54 yard touchdown from the final game of week 4. The offense ran a max protect with the slot receiver running a post, the other receiver running a streak and the TE running a drag. The defense is running a 43 cover 2 defense. The slot receiver finds the hole in the zone in the middle third as you can see the MLB, 53, didn't get deep enough in the coverage and the FS isn't fast enough to cover the play. I can run the same play 5-6 times in a row and not get the same result.
Note: I don't have the defense lining up on the closest man which could be improve the defense to cover overloaded formations like the one Charlotte ran in this play.

[IMetTrentGreen]

Well I played the shit out of Madden 2003 on the gamecube and it blew that picture our of the water. That looks like FPBro98.

[DeftRevisited]

Originally Posted by IMetTrentGreen

Well I played the shit out of Madden 2003 on the gamecube and it blew that picture our of the water. That looks like FPBro98.

To your point, FBPro98 blew Madden 2003, 2004, 2005,.... out of the water as a game. I don't care if you have a Plasma TV, if you still watch crappy TV. It's still crappy TV.

[Cringer]

Nice breakdown of the play for us. But...

I have to ask, are those Oompa Loompas or is that field gigantic? It just doesn't look right to me.

[DeftRevisited]

No its the camera angle. I tried to zoom out to get the entire defense to show the play progression.

Here is the first game of week five. Its a counter play catching the defense in a zone blitz. You can see the two DEs peal out into coverage as the outside linebackers blitz and get caught trailing the play. The guard will make the deciding block on the MLB and spring the back. The FS comes over and makes the tackle after a 16 yard gain.

[Marauders]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

So head to head with real people I can hold a regular draft. But there's still no year by year draft pool generation, right?

I have seen this posted here before, and it is not correct. There are new rookies in the draft pool generated each season.

And if you want to play solo against the AI, it's not a realistic draft either, right?

In my opinion, that is incorrect, but it really matters what a person's definition of realistic is. Each team has a team profile for the draft. The computer teams will draft by their profiles. Team Profiles are easy to create, and many of them come with the game. I'd certainly like to see scouting reports, combines, contract negotiations, and a robust free agency feature, but those are features that were not indicated by the developer to be in the game at this point. They may come as the game evolves in the future, but they are not in the game now.

You may be confusing the old default profile that was set up by the same position for each team; that has not been in use for drafting in quite some time. One thing to note here is that items like this are continually being looked at for improvement, and as new versions are released to the public, items like this are improved.

That brings up another point, every so often I read posts in this thread that ask why Maximum Football still has a beta team. The reason it does is because new features are added that need to be tested. The beta team also trouble-shoots issues that arise and provides input into which potential features should be moved forward on the action list. Almost all games that have perennial development have continuous beta teams.

So MF does a lot of things poorly and some things not at all. Basically all I can tell that works in favor of MF is that it's customizable.

It does many things well, some things fairly, some things poorly, and some things not at all. That can be said for just about any game on the market.

No, I'm not. There hasn't been a 3D football game that looked worse. The animation in this game is horrible, the models are OK by 8-9 years ago standards, the camera is awful. Name me a 3D football game that was worse to look at.

All right. The 10 years you previously stated is now 8 or 9 years. Madden 99 and earlier look much worse. Madden 2000 has similarities, but the players were much too large (fat) and didn't have as good resolution. Madden 2001 and 2002 are similar in graphics, but the Madden series has better animations for the players.

Once Madden went to using motion capture technology, there was no way any game done by a small independent developer would be able to match it. That is why most independent games are text sims or have very little on field graphics. Madden 2004 and onward are much better than Maximum Football in their graphics, but we already knew that, so what is the point? Maximum Football does have some arcade controls for players who want to be more hands on, but it is really a coaching game.

The graphics for Maximum Football are due for an overhaul next year. That will be nice, but it will never be able to keep up with the graphics of Madden or All Pro Football. Of course, being the best graphics arcade football game is not what Maximum Football was designed to do in the first place.

By the way, Madden 2003 on the PC didn't look as good as it did on the Game Cube or any other console. The PC Madden is generally a year behind in graphics from the consoles.

[Marauders]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

What do you mean by basic? If I had 31 teams in the league, will it properly create a schedule? From what I remember, odd number teams did not work with the game scheduler.

Odd teams work with the scheduler. One of the demo leagues that come with the game has an odd number of teams.

Odd numbers of teams are a pain in the backside to schedule. Having a league with an odd number of teams requires at least one bye game each week. That is why real world leagues do not like to use an odd number of teams.

The schedule creator is a basic round-robin style schedule creation tool. It is pretty basic. It will likely be improved on in game or by third parties in the future, but schedules can be edited, and there are a few websites online that will generate schedules of various sizes.

How easy is it to generate a schedule for a 31 team, or a 13 team for that matter, league in Madden? I mean in any Madden PC game released in the last few years.

So are you telling me that players have contracts?

He didn't state that, but leagues have set up contract systems. There is an area in the player data to record the contract information.

Are you telling me their is a new pool of college players available after every season?

There is.

Is there a free agent signing period and when does the draft occur?

The draft is between the end of the last season and prior to training camp.

There is no free agent signing period, because the game does not include GM and commissioner features at this time. It isn't a feature of the game at this time just like 3D graphics and CFL rules are not in FOF and variable season length is not in Madden.

Plus if you play high school or college football, do the players leave after 4 years or stay on forever?

They leave.

You are reading whatever Marauders feeds you.

I actually read more from the community that post to it. My PM box is often 95% full. Please don't try to get personal with people just because they like the game. They are no different from anyone here who likes Madden, All Pro Football, or FOF.

There are a slew of independent developers out there who design 3D games. In fact, look at the husband and wife team that created Mount and Blade or check out Galactic Civilizations.

Those are fun games. Neither of them simulate the rules of football.

My point wasn't that he needed to have that level of talent. My point was that if Madden gives you the same thing, but with less of a headache, why would someone want to spend $30 more for it (if they buy Madden at the end of football season).

That assumes that Madden gives the purchaser the same thing, and it does not. I play Madden with my son often, but I wouldn't play a football league with.

And the real kicker is why do a majority of you guys play CPU vs. CPU to simulate games? If simming the game is that bad, don't you see that as a problem for those trying to create their own league. Why do you want to waste all of that time just to get to the next game in the season?

The sim game isn't all that bad. It is just more difficult to have it match the stats from the CPU vs CPU played games, so some game players would rather not use it.

Just for those whom do not know the history of it, David didn't want a sim in place that did not use the full 3D engine for this reason. It wasn't until Matrix Games came into play as the distributor that there were concerns that a faster sim would be needed for some game players with larger leagues. That was fair enough, but many game players also wanted the option of a slow sim that uses the 3D engine as well.

David has stated that he would like to include the 3D based sim in the next generational version of the game, and the beta team has been tweaking the fast sim along the way. When the current beta version goes public, I'll likely post up some results on the Matrix Games forum.

And let's say I created a 32 team league. How long would it take for me to play all those CPU vs. CPU games before I got to play the next game in the schedule. 10 hours? 8?

It depends if you want to use the fast sim or not. Having a game of the week to give teams some 3D game time helps even out the stats.

By the way, how much different are the 5 second sim stats in FOF than when the games are played out. Are the stats exactly the same, because as I have stated before, I received some extreme stats with the 5 second sim in the demo.

I just have a hard time making sense why you think this is worth anyone's time who only have maybe 1 or 2 hours max to "get away".

Maximum Football is not an NFL simulator. One can start with a small league and work up if one wants. It is much easier to go through a season without having to worry about 32 teams. If one wants 32 and only 32 teams, there is always Madden, its sliders, and some nice utilities that hack in to the software. There are FOF and Football Mogul as well, and each game has its own strengths and weaknesses.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Marauders

It depends if you want to use the fast sim or not. Having a game of the week to give teams some 3D game time helps even out the stats.

FINALLY he admits that the game does a shitty job with the statistics.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by DeftRevisited

Here is the first game of week five. Its a counter play catching the defense in a zone blitz. You can see the two DEs peal out into coverage as the outside linebackers blitz and get caught trailing the play. The guard will make the deciding block on the MLB and spring the back. The FS comes over and makes the tackle after a 16 yard gain.

Nice steaming pile of mumbo-jumbo there, sparky. Pretty vivid imagination to apply it to a screen shot. Explain then why the QB is standing there like a statue, the LG/LT is hunched over like Quasimodo with no one withing 5-yards of him while other offensive linemen are already 4-5 yards downfield? BTW, in a counter-play, one or more linemen usually pull to lead block for the back, not book-it downfield while the back waits to grow a beard before running.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Nice breakdown of the play for us. But...

I have to ask, are those Oompa Loompas or is that field gigantic? It just doesn't look right to me.

Dude, he's playing with the Mini-Ditka mod...it's Maximum Awesomeness

Originally Posted by deft

No its the camera angle. I tried to zoom out to get the entire defense to show the play progression.

Yeah, because when you zoom in or out, the field and the players change perspective at different rates. You see it all the time on tv.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Nice steaming pile of mumbo-jumbo there, sparky. Pretty vivid imagination to apply it to a screen shot. Explain then why the QB is standing there like a statue, the LG/LT is hunched over like Quasimodo with no one withing 5-yards of him while other offensive linemen are already 4-5 yards downfield? BTW, in a counter-play, one or more linemen usually pull to lead block for the back, not book-it downfield while the back waits to grow a beard before running.

Actually you have 2 offensive lineman downfield, 1 that looks like he is blocking for a passing play, and 1 of them that should be called for holding #70 on defense. So I'm not sure what kind of offense that is.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Marauders

Odd teams work with the scheduler. One of the demo leagues that come with the game has an odd number of teams.

Odd numbers of teams are a pain in the backside to schedule. Having a league with an odd number of teams requires at least one bye game each week. That is why real world leagues do not like to use an odd number of teams.

The schedule creator is a basic round-robin style schedule creation tool. It is pretty basic. It will likely be improved on in game or by third parties in the future, but schedules can be edited, and there are a few websites online that will generate schedules of various sizes.

How easy is it to generate a schedule for a 31 team, or a 13 team for that matter, league in Madden? I mean in any Madden PC game released in the last few years.

Okay...so it does suck at working with odd numbered teams. And why the comparison to Madden when their selling point isn't to customize any type of football league. That is the selling point of this game and why many say it doesn't do anything very well. You even admit that the schedule creator is basic, which includes even numbered teams.

He didn't state that, but leagues have set up contract systems. There is an area in the player data to record the contract information.

Well this is what he said:

2) It does have a draft and free agency. AI teams do sign and release players to fit their roster to the team profile. There is no trade AI, but I think even Madden at one point had no AI trades. It might have been a different game I'm thinking about, but it is not uncommon.

Well he mentioned there is free agency which is contradictory to what you are saying. Confused by this if you both own the game.

With no contracts, you don't have true free agency. How do opposing teams bid for a player if there is no monetary value assigned to them? And can you please elaborate on how well the CPU drafts players for computer controlled teams.

The draft is between the end of the last season and prior to training camp.

There is no free agent signing period, because the game does not include GM and commissioner features at this time. It isn't a feature of the game at this time just like 3D graphics and CFL rules are not in FOF and variable season length is not in Madden.

LOL! So you are touting a scheduler that you just admitted above is very basic and you have to edit yourself. And why would FOF have CFL rules? They never touted themselves to play any type of league imaginable and fall short of it.

I actually read more from the community that post to it. My PM box is often 95% full. Please don't try to get personal with people just because they like the game. They are no different from anyone here who likes Madden, All Pro Football, or FOF.

Would you like for me to get every quote from both message boards to see how many times you like to bring up he is a solo developer. Weak.

Those are fun games. Neither of them simulate the rules of football.

Don't kid yourself. Neither does this game. But you have to admit that for indie developers, their 3D graphics kick ass and the excuse of not having motion capture software is poor if you compare this to Mount and Blade.

The sim game isn't all that bad. It is just more difficult to have it match the stats from the CPU vs CPU played games, so some game players would rather not use it.

Okay, so people are playing CPU vs CPU to get realistic stats with custom playbooks and tweaks to the engine because the basic playbooks/players are poor in simulating a game of football. I am glad we agreed on that.

Just for those whom do not know the history of it, David didn't want a sim in place that did not use the full 3D engine for this reason. It wasn't until Matrix Games came into play as the distributor that there were concerns that a faster sim would be needed for some game players with larger leagues. That was fair enough, but many game players also wanted the option of a slow sim that uses the 3D engine as well.

David has stated that he would like to include the 3D based sim in the next generational version of the game, and the beta team has been tweaking the fast sim along the way. When the current beta version goes public, I'll likely post up some results on the Matrix Games forum.

Are you serious? With all the time they have given him to develop this game, are you telling me that Matrix told David to just hold off on a fast sim option? And if that is the case, why didn't David create one in the various betas after that?

It depends if you want to use the fast sim or not. Having a game of the week to give teams some 3D game time helps even out the stats.

Glad we agree again.

By the way, how much different are the 5 second sim stats in FOF than when the games are played out. Are the stats exactly the same, because as I have stated before, I received some extreme stats with the 5 second sim in the demo.

Would you like for us to post game stats? You know, the same type of stats that people seem to be afraid to post here. And I said game stats, not a compilation of stats over a season.

Maximum Football is not an NFL simulator.

Oh yes, we know this. You guys even argued at the beginning that it never even said it could play an American pro ruleset, remember. And then when called on it, it was said that American Pro does not mean NFL. So yeah, you are correct, it can't do any pro game correctly.

[DeftRevisited]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Actually you have 2 offensive lineman downfield, 1 that looks like he is blocking for a passing play, and 1 of them that should be called for holding #70 on defense. So I'm not sure what kind of offense that is.

#63 is the LT. He is assigned a pass block to defend the backside of the run, that' s why it looks like he's pass blocking. #62 is the RG and pulls and kicks out the DE. The graphics aren't good enough to display a kick out block but that is the play design. #64 and #42 are the play side tackle and fullback and they are assigned lead block commands downfield.

To the question of a counter play, I thought a counter was any play where the RB changes direction in the backfield by design. I didn't think you had to have a pulling guard to prove it.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by DeftRevisited

No its the camera angle. I tried to zoom out to get the entire defense to show the play progression.

Here is the first game of week five. Its a counter play catching the defense in a zone blitz. You can see the two DEs peal out into coverage as the outside linebackers blitz and get caught trailing the play. The guard will make the deciding block on the MLB and spring the back. The FS comes over and makes the tackle after a 16 yard gain.

Why is the D-Lineman #70 blocking for the RB?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Bee

Why is the D-Lineman #70 blocking for the RB?

That isn't really fair. Madden does that pretty frequently as well. Guys with a clear line to a ball carrier still get engaged by blockers.

[Rizon]

Mystery solved on statfreak?

[IMetTrentGreen]

To your point, FBPro98 blew Madden 2003, 2004, 2005,.... out of the water as a game. I don't care if you have a Plasma TV, if you still watch crappy TV. It's still crappy TV.

That has nothing to do with my point. We were talking graphics and animations and graphics and animations only.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Mystery solved on statfreak?

I was reading through that thread a few days ago, that Bonedwarf loves this thread, and started reading it from the begining. I just want to throw a shout out to Bonedwarf if he is still reading it.

I didn't remember statfreak being in there until you pointed it out though.

[shaggyra]

Must....resist....saying....something.....stupid........

Lord help me not to be the ass that I truly am.............

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by shaggyra

Must....resist....saying....something.....stupid........

Lord help me not to be the ass that I truly am.............

You just said something stupid. If you have something to say, say it.

Be an ass, too. Be one towards me, I just woke up and am in the mood.

[cartman]

I guess one saving grace for Maximum Football is that Duke Nuke'em Forever still hasn't been released.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Mystery solved on statfreak?

"If feasible, I would recommend purchasing the game for no other reason than ensuring its development. " - statfreak

Proof Positive that statfreak == Jennifer Witner

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Mystery solved on statfreak?

That thread cracked me up because the title says Maximum Football 2.1, yet there is more talk in that thread about a game called Advanced Tactics that even statfreak was intrigued. And what's funny is that he talks about how bad the game is in that thread too.

[Toddzilla]

also from the OOTP thread:

"I'm halfway through the FOFC thread, which seems to be divided between those who despise the game and consider it a travesty, and those who REALLY hate it."

Thats good stuff right there...

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by shaggyra

Must....resist....saying....something.....stupid........

Lord help me not to be the ass that I truly am.............

Seriously? If you want to get angry at someone, remember the person who keeps dredging up this thread. It wasn't an FOFCer. It was a marauder of sorts. And also don't forget that you also contributed to this thread with your own Photoshop gems as well.

[Antmeister]

A couple of shaggyra Photoshop gems from back in the day:

I guess I better not bring up the past since he owns it now.

[JPhillips]

From statfreak:

I have been setting up a 12 team league for the past couple weeks and easily have about 16 hours invested in the league and still am a far way away from actually finishing the setup and playing any games.

Game over. We win.

[shaggyra]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Seriously? If you want to get angry at someone, remember the person who keeps dredging up this thread. It wasn't an FOFCer. It was a marauder of sorts.

Oh but you got me backwards my friend. I am in no way angry with you. In fact this is my favorite thread on any topic ever!

Originally Posted by Antmeister

And also don't forget that you also contributed to this thread with your own Photoshop gems as well.

Some of my finest work.


I will admit an addiction to this game, but some of the flaws pointed out here are valid. Some were valid and have been fixed. Some I don't believe were ever valid.

I need to take off for work now, but I'll be back tonight, with screenshots, stats and whatever else. All will be from the last public release as I am bound by my NDA with Matrix and I will not violate that.

So, I'll see you all later.....

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by shaggyra

Oh but you got me backwards my friend. I am in no way angry with you. In fact this is my favorite thread on any topic ever!



Some of my finest work.


I will admit an addiction to this game (and other bad habits), but some of the flaws pointed out here are valid. Some were valid and have been fixed. Some I don't believe were ever valid.

I need to take off for work now, but I'll be back tonight, with screenshots, stats and whatever else. All will be from the last public release as I am bound by my NDA with Matrix and I will not violate that.

So, I'll see you all later.....

I actually will look forward to what you will bring to the table. You seem to have been pretty skeptical at some point.

That last line still bugs me though. NDA with Matrix. $50 for a game still under development is all that says to me. It's just plain dumb man.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by shaggyra

I need to take off for work now, but I'll be back tonight, with screenshots, stats and whatever else. All will be from the last public release as I am bound by my NDA with Matrix and I will not violate that.

So, I'll see you all later.....

That will be a hell of a lot more than Marauders was giving us. So this should be interesting.

[sttfrk]

The game is $40 at least for the download version which is what most will get. I stand by all my statements both here and on OOTP. MF can be a good enjoyable game to play whether you believe it or not.

I like the graphics and guess I am just stupid. I fired up Madden 2002 (yes, I posted 2003, but now realize I was thinking of 2002) on the PC and find the graphics comparable. I've readily admitted MF's graphics are not cutting edge, but I like them.

I never bashed the game. I admitted its faults and gave my experiences with it. Overall I would recommend the game for anyone that wants to commit to it. Obviously there aren't many, if any, here.

Everything I posted was from personal experience. As has been noted by others, much of what is said about the game here is just plain inaccurate (I'll refrain from calling them lies only because I will not assume the authors intent).

Thanks for all the personal attacks. That tells me you can't refute what I've said so have to resort to taking potshots. I hope you feel better about yourself for doing so. Please continue to hurl insults, it speaks volumes about the person you are.

I realize the initial release was marred by a myriad of problems. Most of those have been fixed (IMO). I bought the first release, but never played a game until 2.0 came out. Mostly because of real life commitments and less to do with the game itself. I feel the money was well spent and readily admit I'm in the minority, especially in this thread. I would rather support MF than Madden because I enjoy the customization that can be done in MF and because the game produces realistic results (at least for me and after setting it up with some trial and error).

I have never stated MF was superior to any other game or product. I have said, for how I want to play, MF is the game that allows me to do that. The only game that does actually. So, my options are limited. Luckily, I've found MF to be good enough that I will come back to it and play when I have time to do more gaming. As I've said before, the game is not perfect and will not appeal to everyone. I wish there were a demo so people could decide for themselves instead of relying on threads like this.

Just like FOF was when it started, the game is a niche product with a limited following. Hopefully MF can continue to improve and grow in popularity like FOF has. MF is not as bad as it is made out to be in this thread. I think everyone that has tried to defend it recently (deft, marauders, shaggy, myself) is frustrated by the things posted here about MF that are simply not true. Unfortunately, the initial release of MF seemingly was so botched that it will be impossible to repair its reputation among the people here.

I'd like to thank Antmeister for engaging me in a mostly civil discussion.

Wow, my posts are way too long here. Sorry for repeating myself so much.

[rkmsuf]

MF sucks.

Thank you.

[Anthony]

this thread is just dead now. it's in its 3rd and hopefully final phase. 1st phase was the comedy, the golden age of the MF thread. lots of gems and classic posts. 2nd phase was the overkill, people knowing how historic this thread was and just trying to get in on the fun long after the horse was beaten to a pulp. in this last phase, this sums up what this thread has become:

FOFC member: "this game is horrible."
random MF fanboy: "no it's not."

seriously, this has been the gist of this thread the last 10 or so pages. it's now a pain to read. i must stop, it'll never be as good as it was.

[Anthony]

in all seriousness those graphics are not bad at all. i kinda like them, the colors and all. that's really impressive for a one man effort. i really think david should eliminate the maximum customization and make it so that you can still edit a lot, but not enough to compromise the game engine. i think we'll all agree if this was just going to be a straight forward football game it could have some hope of simming decent, solid stats. it just may not be strong enough to handle some extreme things that humans can think of. part of how, shit, maybe the whole reason, FOF generates great stats is the developer eliminates your ability to edit the league. you can't really change much, but you give up that right in exchange for what is the strongest sim engine by a one man effort ever, and this is not a fanboy speaking cuz i've given the developer a lot of negative posts when i saw fit. i'm a longtime customer so i've earned that right.

so maybe suggest to david to take it down a notch, maybe limit the customizationatory aspect of the game to uniforms, stadiums and logos and playbooks, but the rest he should restrict. basically keep the eyecandy editabilityness intact, but get rid of my ability to create a league where i can field a team of retired pirates vs. 20 stampeding Templar Knights.