COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[Ksyrup]

Can someone explain the reason for a Covid surcharge? Or more precisely, calling out a specific charge on a bill beyond the price?

Here's a crazy idea - just raise your effin' prices!

Why piss people off by saying "This service/food costs X, and in addition to tax and tip, you owe us Y more because Covid has hurt our business." Covid has hurt everyone! Just charge what you need to stay in business and if it's more than people want to pay, they will go elsewhere.

This is one of those things where I feel like business owners are going out of their way to chase off customers.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Welcome to 'how to be a moron with clipboard', population me. The other quote I previously attributed to you, you didn't even say - it was from a completely different forum on a completely different topic and I have no idea how I inserted it here.

So what I was talking about is the NYT map.

lol That's okay.

As for the map, it should be free access. The Times has a lot of COVID coverage available for free.

[Edward64]

I guess we have enough data to conclude the coronavirus is not as infectious (I think) but is much deadlier than the flu.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 vs. the Flu | Johns Hopkins Medicine

COVID-19: There have been approximately 590,608 deaths reported worldwide. In the U.S, 138,360 people have died of COVID-19, as of July 17, 2020.*
:
:
In the U.S., from Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that 24,000 to 62,000 people died from the flu. (The CDC does not know the exact number because the flu is not a reportable disease in most parts of the U.S.)

But flu leads in infections.

COVID-19: The first cases appeared in China in late 2019 and the first confirmed case in the United States appeared in January 2020.

Approximately 13,832,242 cases have been confirmed worldwide. There have been 3,576,430 cases in the U.S. as of July 17, 2020.*
:
:
In the U.S., for Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that there were 39 million to 56 million cases of flu. (The CDC does not know the exact number because the flu is not a reportable disease in most parts of the U.S.)

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Can someone explain the reason for a Covid surcharge? Or more precisely, calling out a specific charge on a bill beyond the price?

Here's a crazy idea - just raise your effin' prices!

Why piss people off by saying "This service/food costs X, and in addition to tax and tip, you owe us Y more because Covid has hurt our business." Covid has hurt everyone! Just charge what you need to stay in business and if it's more than people want to pay, they will go elsewhere.

This is one of those things where I feel like business owners are going out of their way to chase off customers.

The Fight Club solution to this problem is to subtract the COVID surcharge from your tip so that you accomplish:

1. Making the employee subconsciously hostile toward their employer (or more hostile, depending on how they feel about working through a pandemic in the first place), and
2. If you depress tip income enough, then the employer has to pay actual minimum wage instead of $2 and change per hour, thus negatively impacting their bottom line.

I'm not saying it's a good solution, but Tyler Durden would approve.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Can someone explain the reason for a Covid surcharge? Or more precisely, calling out a specific charge on a bill beyond the price?

Here's a crazy idea - just raise your effin' prices!

Why piss people off by saying "This service/food costs X, and in addition to tax and tip, you owe us Y more because Covid has hurt our business." Covid has hurt everyone! Just charge what you need to stay in business and if it's more than people want to pay, they will go elsewhere.

This is one of those things where I feel like business owners are going out of their way to chase off customers.

My guess is that a Covid surcharge sounds less permanent.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

It looks great.

No reviews yet, let me/us know how it works out after a week of wearing.

I probably need to learn how to take care of leather (or faux or whatever it is) as I generally just leave it in my car so I never forget it.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by whomario

As an aside: Why is the political thread properly designated, but the unpolitical still dubbed with the made up designation ? I mean, i got used to it but struck me as ironic

That political thread is really not about the coronavirus. Its just to give many in this forum yet another thread to endlessly, repetitively wail among themselves about Trump. Admittedly Trump deserves much of the complaints but another one? So ironically, that thread is misnamed and should be called "yet another Trump bashing thread superficially related to the coronavirus".

This thread is called the Wuhan coronavirus because that's actually what NYT called it (see post #1) when I first created it. I don't think anyone would have called NYT "racist" then. I guess it can be renamed now to be "politically correct" but there's a sense of satisfaction in reminding & placing blame on this world wide calamity where it belongs.

[JPhillips]

It's hard out there for a pimp.

[Edward64]

I don't have good context (maybe someone from UK can help out) but apparently there is mask-wearing issue there too. Don't get the big deal in wearing masks (now that we have plenty of them).

How masks became a fault line in Britain’s culture war - POLITICO

Some believe forcing people to wear face coverings by law is an overreach of state power and people should be free to make their own choices. Others argue the need to protect people is the more pertinent libertarian view.

“You can present this in terms of an ideological tension within conservatism, and that definitely exists,” said Jeremy Black, emeritus professor of history and an expert on conservatism. But, he said, there was also a “sheer bloody-mindedness” at being told what to do.

Masks appear to have sparked more outrage in Britain and the U.S. than around continental Europe, where nations told to wear them have quietly gotten on with it or quietly ignored the rules, without such ferocious debate. Black put that down to “a different tradition of political action and independence” in those countries. “In Britain, the adversarial notion of politics is one that may well make the British ungovernable,” he said. “It reflects a different form of political culture.”

[Vegas Vic]

This Sacramento woman was extremely "pissed off" about the mandatory mask requirement in California (pun intended).

Woman Urinates On Floor After Refusing To Leave Verizon Store For Not Wearing Mask

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I guess we have enough data to conclude the coronavirus is not as infectious (I think) but is much deadlier than the flu.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 vs. the Flu | Johns Hopkins Medicine


But flu leads in infections.

No

Flu "leads in infections" because nobody tries to avoid it and essentially nothing is done to curb it's spread. (Plus summer v winter shaping behaviour and thus spread. As bad as SarsCov2 spread, it would have been much worse had it hit in October). If everybody behaved the same and everything was business as usual SarsCov2 is judged to be much more infectious by every scientist and medical professional you'll ask this question.
It's like saying a bottom feeder team scoring more points against a group of amateurs is better offensively than one scoring less against the sports best defense. Data without context is useless.

If everybody behaved like today during flu season and certain measures stayed in place, there would hardly be a flu season to speak of. And there actually is a seasonal effect and this still accelerates. Winter could be hell, especially if 'stationary' mass events indoors make a comeback and also if Entertainment and socialising moves back largely indoors.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by whomario

No

Flu "leads in infections" because nobody tries to avoid it and essentially nothing is done to curb it's spread. (Plus summer v winter shaping behaviour and thus spread. As bad as SarsCov2 spread, it would have been much worse had it hit in October). If everybody behaved the same and everything was business as usual SarsCov2 is judged to be much more infectious by every scientist and medical professional you'll ask this question.
It's like saying a bottom feeder team scoring more points against a group of amateurs is better offensively than one scoring less against the sports best defense. Data without context is useless.

If everybody behaved like today during flu season and certain measures stayed in place, there would hardly be a flu season to speak of. And there actually is a seasonal effect and this still accelerates. Winter could be hell, especially if 'stationary' mass events indoors make a comeback and also if Entertainment and socialising moves back largely indoors.

Okay, I get this.

Do you know what is the latest thinking in coronavirus vs flu r0?

[Edward64]

There is apparently a lot of people (40,000+) stuck out at sea like cruise, merchant ship crews that were scheduled to be rotated out but now can't (or company won't).

There's obviously a lot that I'm not aware of ...

I get being stuck during the initial 2-3 months of confusion but you would think all crew members now had a chance to be tested, ships decontaminated etc. and, at the very least, crews rotated out for fresh crews that need to make some money.

Captain Stubing & Julie, we forgot about you.

I think if I was young and single I'd still have lots of fun being quarantined on a cruise ship but I feel for the others in less luxurious accommodations, food & limited entertainment.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by whomario

No

Flu "leads in infections" because nobody tries to avoid it and essentially nothing is done to curb it's spread. (Plus summer v winter shaping behaviour and thus spread. As bad as SarsCov2 spread, it would have been much worse had it hit in October). If everybody behaved the same and everything was business as usual SarsCov2 is judged to be much more infectious by every scientist and medical professional you'll ask this question.
It's like saying a bottom feeder team scoring more points against a group of amateurs is better offensively than one scoring less against the sports best defense. Data without context is useless.

If everybody behaved like today during flu season and certain measures stayed in place, there would hardly be a flu season to speak of. And there actually is a seasonal effect and this still accelerates. Winter could be hell, especially if 'stationary' mass events indoors make a comeback and also if Entertainment and socialising moves back largely indoors.

They are comparing estimated cases to confirmed cases. That's no way to go through life.

[whomario]

Yeah, that as well of course. Same as flu deaths being the total of all excess deaths which in Winter can have more reasons than just flu.

But first and foremost it is just not a fair comparison given the actual playing field.

Originally Posted by Edward64

Okay, I get this.

Do you know what is the latest thinking in coronavirus vs flu r0?

I don't think R0 as such is a usefull number and can't actually be pinpointed as such. It is thought that actual working R for average influenza virus cocktail (not 1 Virus) in normal 'western' conditions as far as behaviour, living/working situations and climate/weather is roughly between 1.3-1.5 as an average.

Now with SarsCov2 there is a super short window of it even 'meeting' normal behaviour, a few weeks in china and maybe a few more in Italy/Spain/New York etc. And even then behaviour had already subtly altered. And during that brief window, no one kept track or had Surveilance up (as we do for flu via a variety of sampling techniques and data from doctors visits etc). So it is near impossible to pinpoint, but best guess remains 3 or higher (germany estimated at 3 at it's highest and behaviour was already altered then) with the absolute R0 in Wuhan (before anybody knew it existed, so zero change in behaviour from anybody) estimated as high as 5.7.

What we do know is that Flu season in some countries ended super sudden (Germany routinely has it in season until the end of march, this year went from still 50% of peak to almost zero in a week) and in the southern hemisphere it has not taken hold early on. Again the peaks differ between countries (f.e. around Years End for the US, likely due to significant early travel from south to north hemisphere) but South Africa or Australia have had it almost nonexistant in the first stage:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6999217/c...n-flu-rsv/amp/

The year-to-year difference is even more stark in Australia. Last year was an unusually bad year for flu in that country. In May 2019, there were 30,567 confirmed cases recorded by the national health department. In May 2020, there were just 171 so far, with just only days left in the month.

(Confirmed cases is a snapshot, there is hardly any flu testing compared to what is done with Covid19. But testing is done representatively, so comparable year to year)

And again, i am no expert at all. Only interested in it, stumbling on lots at work (have to regularly check a ton of websites in scientific fields) and know a few people that have to stay in the loop due to their vocations.

[whomario]

And one worry on everybodys mind is what happens if regulations are relaxed to the point when flu becomes a factor:

What happens when flu meets Covid-19? | Society | The Guardian

[Edward64]

Oh great, another term to learn "co-infection"

[Brian Swartz]

I do need to say this; I was dead, stinking, no-holds-barred, 100% wrong on how much risk people would be willing to take pre-vaccine. Restaurants are booming even at 50% capacity. Ones that were seeing stagnant/declining business pre-virus scare are now seeing 20% growth consistently year-over-year.

I thought people would be a lot more skittish. I was way off the mark.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I do need to say this; I was dead, stinking, no-holds-barred, 100% wrong on how much risk people would be willing to take pre-vaccine. Restaurants are booming even at 50% capacity. Ones that were seeing stagnant/declining business pre-virus scare are now seeing 20% growth consistently year-over-year.

I thought people would be a lot more skittish. I was way off the mark.

TBH, whenever I've gone to pickup the restaurants don't look that busy and don't see that many eating in (not even close 50%).

I was skittish but I've been told the risk to catch it via food is low.

[PilotMan]

So the boy and I went flying this morning. A very big deal. It's his first flight since he got his private pilot's license, and the very first time that the two of us flew together, just him and I. We went up to Urbana, Ohio, they have a little airport cafe, the good ol' $100 Hamburger, except in this case, it's the $350 breakfast and pie.

Pulled up, parked the plane, kind of busy outside, but it's hot, head in. I swear to god, that it was business as usual in there. There was a sign outside that said, sit 6ft apart outside, but inside it was basically full. No masks anywhere on workers. No tables blocked off. Every table used. Even more surprising, most of the people in there were older, or elderly. It was like a Sunday morning, post church crowd, and nobody really seemed to mind. Things in Cincy at least look like places are trying to make an effort, and restaurants here are all doing the same thing, some better than others, but this was otherworldly.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Edward64

TBH, whenever I've gone to pickup the restaurants don't look that busy and don't see that many eating in (not even close 50%).

I was skittish but I've been told the risk to catch it via food is low.

It's not catching it via food that is the issue, it's being indoors with other people for a prolonged period of time, some of it (necessarily) without your mask on.

This is a similar misunderstanding about masks - you're not wearing it to save yourself. That's a lesser, secondary benefit.

I've been somewhat surprised by what looks to be semi-full parking lots, but the only time I've gone in is if they require it for carry-out (as opposed to curbside). Eating in a restaurant just isn't that important for me to chance it. Carry-out works just fine. If things get better and in a few months when temps are in the 60s/70s, I'll likely be good to sit outside at a restaurant.Otherwise, I'm staying away.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's not catching it via food that is the issue, it's being indoors with other people for a prolonged period of time, some of it (necessarily) without your mask on.

Yeah, I get this but it wasn't that long ago that we were wondering if you can catch it from restaurant food. The consensus now is relatively low risk.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

So the boy and I went flying this morning. A very big deal. It's his first flight since he got his private pilot's license, and the very first time that the two of us flew together, just him and I. We went up to Urbana, Ohio, they have a little airport cafe, the good ol' $100 Hamburger, except in this case, it's the $350 breakfast and pie.

Pulled up, parked the plane, kind of busy outside, but it's hot, head in. I swear to god, that it was business as usual in there. There was a sign outside that said, sit 6ft apart outside, but inside it was basically full. No masks anywhere on workers. No tables blocked off. Every table used. Even more surprising, most of the people in there were older, or elderly. It was like a Sunday morning, post church crowd, and nobody really seemed to mind. Things in Cincy at least look like places are trying to make an effort, and restaurants here are all doing the same thing, some better than others, but this was otherworldly.

Congrats on your son's milestone.

Do you own a prop (I assume) or just rent one?

[PilotMan]

Rented. Plane ownership is not in the budget at all.

[cougarfreak]

I’m just wrapping up a 12 day Disney trip. I know I’m weird, but we had this one planned for awhile. It was our twentieth anniversary. I have to say I’m pleasantly surprised at how Disney has done it. Masks everywhere. Sanitizer everywhere. Cleaning workers are all over. Wiping rides, hand rails etc. no tables open within 6 feet of each other. Plexiglass shields in ride lines, buses, boats. Today they implemented you can’t eat and walk (for like food stands) So if you move, you mask.


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[Lathum]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

I’m just wrapping up a 12 day Disney trip. I know I’m weird, but we had this one planned for awhile. It was our twentieth anniversary. I have to say I’m pleasantly surprised at how Disney has done it. Masks everywhere. Sanitizer everywhere. Cleaning workers are all over. Wiping rides, hand rails etc. no tables open within 6 feet of each other. Plexiglass shields in ride lines, buses, boats. Today they implemented you can’t eat and walk (for like food stands) So if you move, you mask.


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Were lines really short?

[Butter]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

I’m just wrapping up a 12 day Disney trip. I know I’m weird, but we had this one planned for awhile. It was our twentieth anniversary. I have to say I’m pleasantly surprised at how Disney has done it. Masks everywhere. Sanitizer everywhere. Cleaning workers are all over. Wiping rides, hand rails etc. no tables open within 6 feet of each other. Plexiglass shields in ride lines, buses, boats. Today they implemented you can’t eat and walk (for like food stands) So if you move, you mask.


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Where did you stay? How full was it? Did you have to move from your originally booked hotel?

[Edward64]

How did they do the parades?

[cuervo72]

Hey, we just drove through Urbana about an hour ago.

[cuervo72]

Also, I still don’t understand people who don’t know how to wear masks. We were at a church function where they were mandatory; at least three people had them down under their nose. One was one of those round masks like you wear if you are sanding something. It had to be more uncomfortable to wear that under your nose. I just don’t get it.

(Damned mouth-breathers.)

[cougarfreak]

We split stayed. Contemporary, Kidani, and Copper Creek.

No parades. Or fireworks. Every now and then a float with princesses or the characters will appear and drive down one of the streets.

Very very few people in the parks. You have to have a reservation to GET in the parks too. No fast passes. One park a day. But I think outside of the new Minnie/Mickey train ride in holllywood nothing was over 20 minutes.

Rise if the resistance was still a virtual que.


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[Butter]

Why in God's name would ANYONE be in Urbana, let alone two FOFC forum members? Urbana sucks

[PilotMan]

We really just went there for the pie.

[Warhammer]

They actually had some good restaurants there, small mom and pop places, but good. I used to have to drive that way for work.

[cuervo72]

Ok, technically drove by on I-70 on our way back from Purdue.

[Atocep]

Oxford Phase 1/2 results are in and look very promising.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/oxford...ry?id=71875583

https://marlin-prod.literatumonline....3620316044.pdf

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Oxford Phase 1/2 results are in and look very promising.

Yeah but AstraZeneca is down 4%. Weird.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by bob

Atlanta Public Schools announced the 9 week online thing. Fulton has only delayed start until the 17th.

Georgia’s largest school district won’t have in-person start

[Ksyrup]

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Yeah but AstraZeneca is down 4%. Weird.

I think that vaccine news has been so promising that the market has already priced in good news for the major players.

[molson]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I think that vaccine news has been so promising that the market has already priced in good news for the major players.

Plus they're starting to bet on a vaccine "winner" (who will be first, and who will be most profitable), rather than just one being found. Everyone but the winner is probably a little over-priced.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The University where I work is doing the same, including any faculty or staff going on campus.

[PilotMan]

You know, if we just stop trying to test, everyone will have chlamydia and soon we'll have herd immunity and we can go on about our business.

[tarcone]

SLU and Washington U in St Louis looking for 3000 people to test a vaccine. They are looking for higher risk people.

I may volunteer. Going to call tomorrow and see how I can get involved.

[GrantDawg]

My son's school is testing everyone as the come to campus, and will keep them in quarantine for 48 hours till the tests come back. If they test positive, they will be put in special housing to quarantine.

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[JPhillips]

We might do that, but if the testing isn't continuous it's more for show than anything else. A campus can't be locked down like the NBA bubble.

[GrantDawg]

Yeah, they are testing weekly. They are using the Harvard-MIT test.

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[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Also, I still don’t understand people who don’t know how to wear masks. We were at a church function where they were mandatory; at least three people had them down under their nose. One was one of those round masks like you wear if you are sanding something. It had to be more uncomfortable to wear that under your nose. I just don’t get it.

(Damned mouth-breathers.)

This is pretty much the behavior that is keeping me away from church. In CA masks are required in public, but it wasn't enforced at church. A lot of folks take them off once they sit down. Many more kept them under their noses. I showed up one Sunday as a volunteer, but won't be back until this is over.

It just isn't worth the risk, nor the aggravation I feel.

And if they really were mouth breathers, they wouldn't need to pop their noses out.

[PilotMan]

Shit, Kroger supposedly has a mask policy, but they are just fine with employees wearing then wrong. Gonna say something like 40% of all mask wearers had them on wrong. It's really hard in Kentucky apparently.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Shit, Kroger supposedly has a mask policy, but they are just fine with employees wearing then wrong. Gonna say something like 40% of all mask wearers had them on wrong. It's really hard in Kentucky apparently.

The Kroger & Publix employees have been great with masks. Its the fast food ones that are suspect IMO.