It's Gone! 2004-2006 NHL Offseason and Lockout Thread

[klayman]

A $20 M cap would allow some of those teams to make money since the Oilers are not making money with a $34 M payroll, AFAIK. Still, a $20 M cap is unrealistic, considering the average salary is just over $1 M. You wouldn't even be able to field a 20 man roster, nevermind 1 or 2 superstars, without some extreme and drastic change in the salary structure. While I'm all for that, if that's what the owners are holding out for...well we won't be seeing NHL hockey anytime soon.

[Draft Dodger]

not only that, but I think if there was a $20 M cap (no way in HELL this will EVER happen, btw), I bet you'd see some top stars bolting for Europe.

[Tekneek]

The Oilers would have to restructure all of the contract extensions they've signed over the past couple of seasons to get down to a $20 million payroll. If they were putting forward such a plan, I can't see Kevin Lowe being behind it.

The NHL could only get to a $20 million cap by dissolving the league and making each franchise charter members in a new hockey league that does not have a player's union.

[Karim]

It's just something I heard that was a little different from the rest of the stories out there.

I still expect something like a graduated luxury tax starting at $40 million.

I also expect that one season will be lost. That should be enough for both parties to assess the damage and then finally be willing to compromise. So my vote is for a new CBA sometime after January 2005.

[Tekneek]

If any part of the season is lost, they are going to be hurting even more from a financial standpoint. Lose an entire season and it will be an uphill battle to get any kind of attention. It would fit the NHL and their history to blow it now, although this one hangs entirely on the NHLPA right now as far as I care (the league has made at least 6 different proposals, and the NHLPA has made zero).

The TV revenue issues would have long since been resolved if they had not made that insane jump to Sportschannel America.

[The Un-Ghosted Chubby]

I'll guess on a $30 mil cap with some sort of Bird rule in there to appease the superstars.

[mauchow]

Do people read this thread?

[Karim]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Do people read this thread?

Over 4000 views and counting. Thanks for stopping by.

[klayman]

I think the real question is are there people that don't read this thread?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Do people read this thread?

only the cool ones

[Karim]

The World Cup exhibitions start today. Canada vs. USA in Columbus.

You can listen on-line here:
http://www.1460thefan.com/tf.php

Pre-game starts 4:30 MT/6:30 ET.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Karim

The World Cup exhibitions start today. Canada vs. USA in Columbus.

You can listen on-line here:
http://www.1460thefan.com/tf.php

Pre-game starts 4:30 MT/6:30 ET.

I cannot believe there is no TV coverage of this game. It boggles my mind. I am pissed.

[Simms]

It's on LeafsTV.

[Karim]

If I could subscribe to LeafsTV I would do it right now just to watch the game but of course, it's only available in Ontario.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Karim

If I could subscribe to LeafsTV I would do it right now just to watch the game but of course, it's only available in Ontario.

Excluding Ottawa.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Excluding Ottawa.

too bad - with all the Leafs fans there, they'd make a killing.

[TurnerONU22]

I just got back from the game here in Columbus, and it was enjoyable to see USA beat Canada, 3-1. Here's a few of my observations:

- I had great seats, 3 rows behind the USA bench, you could tell the guys were fired up early on.

- The crowd was disappointed that Lemeiux didn't dress tonight (considering I saw at least 25 of his jerseys, and Pittsburgh is only 3 hours away)

- Canada's D really needs to step it up, as they just let USA take shot after shot after shot, doing a poor job of getting it out of the zone. J-Bo played some tonight, and I didn't think he played too bad

- The Int'l Grind Line of Doan-Maltby-Draper did their job, leading Konowalchuk getting into it with Draper (I believe) in front of the USA bench, with a nice little scrum happening.

- The Sakic-Iginla-????? (person is slipping my mind at the moment) line didn't create any chances at all. Sakic didn't make any passes, and Iginla did nothing with the puck.

- USA played hard for 60 minutes, got tough play from Guerin, Gomez, Rafalski, and some others and deserved the win. Canada's only goal came on a PP, but they didn't look too impressive.

- It was awesome to see these an "All-Star" game, but with these guys giving it their all, even in an exhibition game. I'm thinking about getting some tickets for the Friday night game against Russia.

[TurnerONU22]

Did anyone listen on the radio? Just wanted to see what everyone thought of the CBJ radio guys.

[Karim]

Well, a lacklustre effort for Canada with only 3 shots in the third. Brodeur looked sharp, however.

I can't believe the fans from Vancouver who called in the post-game show. Bertuzzi was the reason we lost. Take Lemieux or Iginla off the team for Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi's 250 lbs. can carry the team, Iginla's 210 can't. Bertuzzi is the best player in the world.

Holy rose-coloured glasses, Batman.

[Karim]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

Did anyone listen on the radio? Just wanted to see what everyone thought of the CBJ radio guys.

I enjoyed it. It was nice to see them fired up.

Gagne was the third man on the Sakic-Iginla line. It was a line that clicked in the Olympics in Salt Lake.

[Karim]

dola,

Losing Blake and Pronger hurts big time. Bouwmeester, Hannan and Brewer are just not up to snuff. (I'm gonna get it from klayman now.)

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Karim

dola,

Losing Blake and Pronger hurts big time. Bouwmeester, Hannan and Brewer are just not up to snuff. (I'm gonna get it from klayman now.)

hehe...however, I agree. The d-men are our biggest question mark heading into the tournament. Scotty can only play some 30 mins a game, and after that, there's not much in the way of superstars (although they are all very good players)

Btw, what did you think about the Kiprusoff arbitration award?

[Karim]

Originally Posted by klayman

Btw, what did you think about the Kiprusoff arbitration award?

A 269% increase seems a touch much. What's more disturbing is the tone coming from both Kipper and his agent, Larry Kelly. It was an acrimonious process and it seems Kiprusoff is now upset at the way he was characterized by Sutter in the arbitration process.

Initially Sutter offered $4.5 million/2 years but that was rejected. Kipper wanted $4 million/year. Sutter then withdrew that offer and presented a case in arbitration for a $1.4 million/1 year contract. That just pissed Kelly off. He proceeded to antagonize the situation by making comments to the media like "They expect him to cure the bubonic plague." (paraphrased)

So although they got a huge raise, it's off the $4 million/year they were looking for and they're not happy.

[TurnerONU22]

For those who won't be able to catch the Wednesday (rematch in Ottawa, i believe) game or the Friday (USA v. Russia in Columbus) game on TV, the Blue Jacket guys will be doing the play-by-play again for both of these games. I'll be tuning in on both days, as it seems they're bringing their A game on the radio.

Here's the website: 1460 TheFAN

[Draft Dodger]

somehow, I missed hearing about the passing of Ivan Hlinka...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=96118

[SoxWin]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

If any part of the season is lost, they are going to be hurting even more from a financial standpoint. Lose an entire season and it will be an uphill battle to get any kind of attention. It would fit the NHL and their history to blow it now, although this one hangs entirely on the NHLPA right now as far as I care (the league has made at least 6 different proposals, and the NHLPA has made zero).

The TV revenue issues would have long since been resolved if they had not made that insane jump to Sportschannel America.

Wrong answer.

The players made the first proposal, months ago, while hockey was still being played. Among other things it included an immediate 5% rollback of salries for all players, a luxury tax like MLB's which would have distributed in the neighborhood of $200 million, and more restrictions on entry level salries and bonuses. Bettman and his asshats didn't even bother to respond.

As long as the owners won't accept anything other then a hard cap, this thing will not get fixed. I used to have hope, I don't anymore.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

somehow, I missed hearing about the passing of Ivan Hlinka...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=96118

Were you on a bender that week?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by bbor

Were you on a bender that week?

I wish!

[Cards4ever]

Looks like Leopold is out of the WC after suffering a concussion on Monday night.

[Karim]

That's Leopold's third notable concussion. His first was in the USHL, the second came from Edmonton's Dan Cleary in an exhibition game, and the third came last night from Ryan Smyth.

Fuck those Oilers!!!

[Karim]

dola,

The WHA is offering Crosby $7.5 million ($2 million guaranteed)...
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Ottawa...25/600722.html

The NHL should dump the Olympics in favour of World Cups (I agree)....
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2686750

Flashing goal posts to end all controversy (check out the videos)...
http://www.litnets.com/article09_30.html

[Cards4ever]

Leopold played as part of the USNDTP that played a series of games against USHL opponents. Just want to clear that up abit.

I want the NHL'ers to stay part of the Olympics, otherwise the Gophers are going to be one hurting team during Olympic years.

Another former Gopher Paul Martin(NJ) in for Leopold.

[sachmo71]

Hockey?

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Hockey?

Come on up, Next weekend we have WC games Thursday and Friday, and then we can go check out the HS'ers in Elite League action on Saturday and Sunday. All within a half hour of my house!

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Karim

dola,

The WHA is offering Crosby $7.5 million ($2 million guaranteed)...
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Ottawa...25/600722.html

The NHL should dump the Olympics in favour of World Cups (I agree)....
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2686750

Flashing goal posts to end all controversy (check out the videos)...
http://www.litnets.com/article09_30.html

In my mind those nets are a great idea. I might tone down the lighting a bit, but just the idea of a sensor in the puck and the posts ending all the "was it across the line" controversy seems like a great idea.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

Come on up, Next weekend we have WC games Thursday and Friday, and then we can go check out the HS'ers in Elite League action on Saturday and Sunday. All within a half hour of my house!

Awesome!

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Karim

Flashing goal posts to end all controversy (check out the videos)...
http://www.litnets.com/article09_30.html

What I really want is a demo showing me this can take away controvesial goals.

SI

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

In my mind those nets are a great idea. I might tone down the lighting a bit, but just the idea of a sensor in the puck and the posts ending all the "was it across the line" controversy seems like a great idea.

I agree.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Awesome!

Anytime you want to come up, my casa, your casa. Probably won't happen with all those kids you keep spitting out, but, keep the dream alive brother! You need to come see the Gophers in Mariucci!

[sterlingice]

My money is on Eddie breaking the first one of those.

SI

[Karim]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

Leopold played as part of the USNDTP that played a series of games against USHL opponents. Just want to clear that up abit.

US National Development Training Program ?

Is this like Canada's Program of Excellence, where all the best junior players come together once a year for a development camp? There are no games against teams though.

[Cards4ever]

Sorry, I switched those letters around. US National Team Development Program. It's in Ann Arbor. They take the best US kids they can get to come there and have them play together. The teams there play in the U-17 tournaments and such. Some kids don't go that route, depending on their HS options or USHL options.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by SoxWin

Wrong answer.

The players made the first proposal, months ago, while hockey was still being played. Among other things it included an immediate 5% rollback of salries for all players, a luxury tax like MLB's which would have distributed in the neighborhood of $200 million, and more restrictions on entry level salries and bonuses. Bettman and his asshats didn't even bother to respond.

As long as the owners won't accept anything other then a hard cap, this thing will not get fixed. I used to have hope, I don't anymore.

At the time I had just finished an article that claimed the players had never made a proposal. You're right that they did. How can you say that the NHL has not responded when they made 6 proposals since then? That sounds like a response. According to the NHL, not all of them contain hard caps either. Sounds like you've got a wrong answer too, buddy.

[SoxWin]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

At the time I had just finished an article that claimed the players had never made a proposal. You're right that they did. How can you say that the NHL has not responded when they made 6 proposals since then? That sounds like a response. According to the NHL, not all of them contain hard caps either. Sounds like you've got a wrong answer too, buddy.

I may have, I'm pretty fucking far from perfect. I've yet to see where the owners have made a proposal of any kind that doesn't mention a salary cap, if you've got a link, I'd love to read it.

I hear Trevor Lindon on the radio quite a bit here (he's the head of the NHLPA) and he's never mentioned anything like that. Of course, the source is biased, but he's always been known as a straight shooter.

It's just my opinion, but if the owners know the players will not accept a cap under any circumstance, I don't consider a proposal that contains one legitimate, I consider it spin so they can tell the public that they're "talking"

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by SoxWin

It's just my opinion, but if the owners know the players will not accept a cap under any circumstance, I don't consider a proposal that contains one legitimate, I consider it spin so they can tell the public that they're "talking"

Just curious, by why do you feel that way about the owners' proposal but not the same way about the players'? The owners have been just as adamant about "cost certainty" needing to be part of any deal, so why is it a serious offer when the players propose something that doesn't take that into account?

[SoxWin]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Just curious, by why do you feel that way about the owners' proposal but not the same way about the players'? The owners have been just as adamant about "cost certainty" needing to be part of any deal, so why is it a serious offer when the players propose something that doesn't take that into account?

I guess because I don't believe "cost certainty" aka a hard cap is necessary.

Personally, I believe the current CBA is a great one for the league. I don't trust Gary Bettman one whit, and I have a hard time believing the numbers the head office is putting out in terms of offers.

I think a plan such as what the players proposed would work very well, at least as a starting point. Unfortunately, Bettman has promised the owners a cap and it's going to ruin the league.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by SoxWin

I may have, I'm pretty fucking far from perfect. I've yet to see where the owners have made a proposal of any kind that doesn't mention a salary cap, if you've got a link, I'd love to read it.

Read the Q&A, All-Star.

http://nhlcbanews.com/news/meeting072104.html

Q: Were they six different possibilities or one?

Bill Daly: Yes, they were six different possibilities. They are all fundamentally different concepts.

Q: Do they all include a salary cap?

Bill Daly: No.

[SoxWin]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Read the Q&A, All-Star.

http://nhlcbanews.com/news/meeting072104.html

Q: Were they six different possibilities or one?

Bill Daly: Yes, they were six different possibilities. They are all fundamentally different concepts.

Q: Do they all include a salary cap?

Bill Daly: No.

Nice. You always this rude?

Thanks for the link.

Edit. I have trouble believing that since it flies in the face of everything Bettman has ever said, but so be it.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by SoxWin

Nice. You always this rude?

Thanks for the link.

No, we just seemed to get off on the wrong foot.

It may be difficult to believe. It is also difficult to believe that Trevor Linden, despite being a great and seemingly loyal player, is not coloring things a different way than an impartial participant would (I'm sure that Bill Daly blurs the truth as well, but the question about a salary cap seems rather black & white). The problem stands...the NHLPA has made one proposal (was it 15 months ago? I read a reference to it being that long ago), while the NHL has made 6. The NHLPA refuses to budge from their first offer and has not, according to published reports, responded to any of the 6 proposals from the league.

I want to blame both parties, but it *seems* clear that one side has already given up the idea of negotiating. You don't negotiate by making one offer and sitting on it.

[Karim]

I posted an article earlier that outlined all six proposals. I believe two of them didn't involve a salary cap.
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2655156

I know people don't believe owners are losing money but there's a lot of legitimacy and credibility to the Levitt Report which says 19 teams lost money and the league as a whole lost approximately $275 million. Arthur Levitt has an open door policy to Goodenow to discuss it in detail and answer any question but Goodenow has declined to date. Meanwhile, the NHLPA has yet to explain where Levitt has gone wrong in his analysis or provided one of their own.