Official 2020 College Basketball Thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Tampering (?) charges are being leveled at Kentucky in the transfer of Iowa guard CJ Freserick. Seems Kentucky came calling before CJ entered the portal

Just another issue with this whole thing.

Gonna be a helluva lot of charges to investigate if that's a thing because, based on a lot of coaches interviewed lately, that's pretty much every transfer these days.

[Ksyrup]

Obviously way more attention and money involved with football and basketball so this stuff is going to come up more because it matters more to a lot of people, but for those who pay attention to the secondary sports where "free" transfers have been the norm for years, this is nothing new. Softball transfer season is upon us and it's already abuzz with some big names (and bigger ones to come as more teams are eliminated until the WCWS ends). I know a couple of coaches and reading between the lines, they all know things have been in the works - they are not surprised when certain people hit the portal. There are indirect feelers put out about "coming home" or "making the move to P5," even if it's indirect and fairly generic.

I'd be surprised if any coach was dumb enough to have contact that would be so direct as to be a smoking gun, but I'm sure someone's going to slip up. And it wouldn't shock me if it was UK, given the fact that Cal desperately needs performance to pick up quickly.

[GrantDawg]

I wish there was a professional girls softball league that got a lot of coverage. I find fastpitch softball super entertaining.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[MrBug708]

I love watching College Softball, but it helps that my favorite team, UCLA, is the gold standard for softball.

[cartman]

Coach K is retiring after the 2021-22 season.

https://news.yahoo.com/report-dukes-...171144216.html

[albionmoonlight]

Will be interesting to see if Duke remains Duke after K leaves.

As a UNC guy, my fear is Brad Stevens taking over.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Will be interesting to see if Duke remains Duke after K leaves.

As a UNC guy, my fear is Brad Stevens taking over.

If the reports are to be believed, Stevens wants a front office gig having gotten burned out on coaching

[Atocep]

I'd be shocked if the replacement isn't one of his former players.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If the reports are to be believed, Stevens wants a front office gig having gotten burned out on coaching

And to that point, that's exactly what Stevens has done, taking over as Celtics president from Ainge.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rjolley

And to that point, that's exactly what Stevens has done, taking over as Celtics president from Ainge.

Yeah, which is why I'd be surprised if he ended up coaching in college in the short term.

[henry296]

The article cartman posted indicated Jon Scheyer is the leading candidate.

[Swaggs]

It's crazy that Boeheim is going to outlast all these guys. I was looking up tenure and Coach K. began at Duke in 80-81 and Boeheim in 76-77. There are some long-term guys that began in the mid to late-80s, but the next closest power 5 coach is Izzo, who began in 95. Turnover and burnout are just so much different nowadays, it is weird seeing guys like Krzyzweski and Boeheim essentially covering 3-4 eras of college basketball at the same schools.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It's crazy that Boeheim is going to outlast all these guys. I was looking up tenure and Coach K. began at Duke in 80-81 and Boeheim in 76-77. There are some long-term guys that began in the mid to late-80s, but the next closest power 5 coach is Izzo, who began in 95. Turnover and burnout are just so much different nowadays, it is weird seeing guys like Krzyzweski and Boeheim essentially covering 3-4 eras of college basketball at the same schools.

Yup. You'd have to think that if a coach like K started at a school like Duke today, he'd get poached to go coach a top program the instant he started having success.

A home-grown coach can still happen (according to Wikipedia, Few has been at Gonzaga since 1999). But the model of start small, get paid a shitload to go to a top program, get overwhelmed, get canned, rinse, repeat seems much more common.

[molson]

When I started as a Syracuse student in '96 I saw Boeheim as one of the old guard who had been at the school forever. It's pretty crazy that he wasn't even halfway through his tenure yet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Yup. You'd have to think that if a coach like K started at a school like Duke today, he'd get poached to go coach a top program the instant he started having success.

Actually, he'd probably have been poached from wherever he rebuilt his career.

Taking over a team that had reached the Elite Eight under Bill Foster, his first three seasons he was 17-13, 10-17, and 11-17. Even years 4 & 5 point to him not keeping the job. They made the tournament, but went a combined 1-2 as a #3 seed both seasons. (lost to 6 seed Washington in his 1st appearance at Duke, then getting by Pepperdine but losing to 11 seed Boston College in the round of 32)

With that start, I don't think he lasts long enough to get to the finals with Duke in his sixth season.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually, he'd probably have been poached from wherever he rebuilt his career.

Taking over a team that had reached the Elite Eight under Bill Foster, his first three seasons he was 17-13, 10-17, and 11-17. Even years 4 & 5 point to him not keeping the job. They made the tournament, but went a combined 1-2 as a #3 seed both seasons. (lost to 6 seed Washington in his 1st appearance at Duke, then getting by Pepperdine but losing to 11 seed Boston College in the round of 32)

With that start, I don't think he lasts long enough to get to the finals with Duke in his sixth season.

That was before my time and I hadn't heard of Foster, but looking over his wikipedia page, it looks like he was roughly .500 for three seasons and then went to the NCAAs three times in a row before using Duke as springboard to a more prestigious job at.... South Carolina. Crazy how much can change in 40 years. Coach K. wouldn't leave Duke for $8M a year and the Lakers 20 years later.

It's funny thinking about how, growing up for me, there were six elite basketball schools in Duke, UNC, UCLA, Indiana, Kentucky, and Kansas. Now, I'm not sure that most recruits would consider Indiana or UCLA much more than regional powers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

That was before my time and I hadn't heard of Foster, but looking over his wikipedia page, it looks like he was roughly .500 for three seasons and then went to the NCAAs three times in a row before using Duke as springboard to a more prestigious job at.... South Carolina

And I'm juuuust old enough (give or take) to kinda remember how that went down.

The legendary Frank McGuire was in charge at SC and upset Tobacco Road mightily by winning the ACC regular season title in '69 and the conference tourney in '70. He pushed SC into leaving the conference and going independent, which didn't work out so well (3 NCAA tourney bids but only 2 NIT bids in the last six seasons). The school wanted to join a conference, McGuire didn't want to give up his control over basketball, and ultimately he was pushed into retirement ... making way for Foster.

That was a mixed bag as well, Foster got them into the NIT in his third season, which got them invited finally to the Metro Conference but that didn't go so well and Foster was let go after 3 years in the Metro and a 2-10 finish. He'd land at Northwestern but never managed more than 3 conference wins per season over his 7 years there. He stepped down to become interim AD ... and Ricky Byrdsong promptly took the team to the NIT.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And I'm juuuust old enough (give or take) to kinda remember how that went down.

The legendary Frank McGuire was in charge at SC and upset Tobacco Road mightily by winning the ACC regular season title in '69 and the conference tourney in '70. He pushed SC into leaving the conference and going independent, which didn't work out so well (3 NCAA tourney bids but only 2 NIT bids in the last six seasons). The school wanted to join a conference, McGuire didn't want to give up his control over basketball, and ultimately he was pushed into retirement ... making way for Foster.

That was a mixed bag as well, Foster got them into the NIT in his third season, which got them invited finally to the Metro Conference but that didn't go so well and Foster was let go after 3 years in the Metro and a 2-10 finish. He'd land at Northwestern but never managed more than 3 conference wins per season over his 7 years there. He stepped down to become interim AD ... and Ricky Byrdsong promptly took the team to the NIT.

Good info - these stories are the type of stuff I love about sports (as much as the wins and losses). It's funny, but like I said, I had never heard of Foster but your post leads into my memory and I definitely remember Byrdsong leading Northwestern to the postseason and what a big deal that was at the time. And, of course, Byrdsong being murdered a few years afterwards.

Thinking about how someone like Frank or Al McGuire can turn an otherwise average program into a powerhouse and then they fall off ties back into those elite schools. I guess guys like Jay Wright and Few and Izzo are comparable in the present. UNC, Kansas, and Kentucky have seemed to function well with multiple iconic coaches, whereas Indiana without Knight and UCLA without Wooden have not been as successful. I guess Kentucky has gone periods of time without being great, as well.

It makes it fun to think about how Duke will do without Coach K (and Syracuse with Boeheim). Georgetown and UConn may be examples or maybe Coach K has built up enough infrastructure and prestige to carry them forward for a long time.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It makes it fun to think about how Duke will do without Coach K (and Syracuse with Boeheim). Georgetown and UConn may be examples or maybe Coach K has built up enough infrastructure and prestige to carry them forward for a long time.

Money, too. It's hard (not impossible, but hard) for private schools to throw around $$ like big state schools with huge alumni/booster bases.

Does Duke remain *Duke* without Coach K? Or do they fall into becoming more of a Wake Forest?

No idea, but it will be really fun to watch.

[albionmoonlight]

dola, even UNC went through a rough patch (I know b/c that's when I went there) between Dean Smith and Roy Williams. No program-no matter how much history and tradition and prestige it has-is immune from backsliding.

It is *really* hard to remain a top 15 program year in and year out. A couple of bad recruiting classes is all it takes to be watching the tourney from home come March.

[Swaggs]

Public vs private school resources is a good point. Duke could turn into Wake Forest or Georgetown or be more like Notre Dame is to football.

With those schools, one big thing I consider are the iconic coaches. UNC, Kentucky, and Kansas have all had successful, Hall of Fame Coaches after Smith, Rupp, and Allen. Maybe that's the difference with Indiana and UCLA - they had amazing, long stretches but just under one hall of fame type coach, whereas UNC had Roy Williams, Kentucky has had Pitino/Sutton/Calipari, and Kansas has had Brown, Williams, and Self.

[spleen1015]

I fully expect Duke to fall quite a bit just because they're not replacing Coach K with a proven HC that had success some where else, like Kansas did when Williams left.

Indiana fans are nuts. They think IU should be just as good as they were under Knight. They can't come to grips with the reality that Knight was a generational coach and someone like that is virtually irreplaceable.

The same goes for Duke. They are going to have some lean years.

[sterlingice]

Since I've been on vacation: With Jon Scheyer taking over at Duke and Hubert Davis at North Carolina - what are expectations going forward?

I mean, if I were one of the ADs there, I'd have been tripping over myself to see if I could dislodge Tony Bennett from Virginia

But they're both schools that love to hire from "within the family" and it feels like they only searched within said family. That's great if you have Roy Williams, one of the best coaches in the country, in your "family". But you're top 5 programs and you selected Scheyer and Davis? If Cal left tomorrow, those guys don't get a sniff at Kentucky. Same with Self at Kansas.

Back when Self was hired at Kansas - I couldn't have cared less if he was in the family with his season as an assistant under Larry Brown. He was clearly the best candidate, having built a couple of programs and then succeeded at a high level at a non blue blood P5.

If Self left tomorrow or next year or whatever*, I'd want Kansas knocking on the doors of whoever the best candidates are out there who could possibly be enticed to leave: Bennett, Beard (though that ship has probably sailed now that he's at Texas), Stevens, Donovan (is he still interested in college coaching), etc. I definitely don't want the search limited to Mark Turgeon, Danny Manning, Jerod Haase, the current assistants, and some pu pu platter of guys who have touched the program at one point or another.

*This assumes the program isn't on some sort of years long NCAA penalty that severely alters their ability to recruit a coach

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

But you're top 5 programs and you selected Scheyer and Davis?

I just think both feel like "stay the course" is exactly what they wanna do and someone who knows how that course has been laid out is best equipped to do so.

I mean, if you feel like you're pretty much where you want to be then I'd say that makes sense.

Now whether either/both of the programs are in as good a shape as they seem to believe, that's a different question.

[albionmoonlight]

When UNC hired Matt Doherty, it was from an undue obsession with staying in the family. Roy Williams turned them down to stay at Kansas, and they also got turned down by some other folks.

And they then offered the job to Doherty, who initially balked because he thought he wasn't ready (spoiler alert: he wasn't). They got Michael Jordan to call him to close the deal, and Jordan's pitch was "if you don't take this, they're gonna have to go outside the family."

Sure, stay inside the family if you can. But the point is to get a great coach. And you can miss the point if you focus too much on your own mythology.

[miami_fan]

So we have had college players getting paid for NIL, incoming college players getting paid for NIL, now we have incoming HS juniors?

Mikey Williams signs with Excel Sports for NIL deal expected to 'generate millions' for high school basketball star

I had questions about this bit as this was the first I had heard of it.

Williams, a San Diego native who will attend Lake Norman Christian in Huntersville, North Carolina, and play for Vertical Academy,

Here is where I found the answers. This ain't the high school sports world I grew up in, but I do find it interesting and intriguing.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sp...252763713.html

Instead, Williams will play basketball for a new program called Vertical Academy, which will be based in the Charlotte area. Students can attend classes online, at Lake Norman Christian, or a combination of both, Mahlon Williams, Mikey’s father, and Lake Norman Christian coach Patrick McCarthy told the Observer on Tuesday.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Here is where I found the answers. This ain't the high school sports world I grew up in, but I do find it interesting and intriguing.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sp...252763713.html

So Vertical seems to be the evolution of the IMG Academy(s) model, with Lake Norman basically doing the education component for them, outsourced as it were.

(LNC is a story in & of itself, with Williams on campus generating bigger social media numbers than Zion Williamson did at a similar school in SC. They're a dominant force in a VERY weak league -- an article pointed out that they went 35-2 but lost by 40 points to a 9-20 private school that plays in the more competitive state structure)