2020 NFL Offseason Thread? - Page 12

bhlloy · 04-29-2020, 03:50 PM

The obvious counterpoint to that is he doesn't play well enough to beat him out or Dalton turns into 2019 Ryan Tannehill (unlikely, but stranger things have happened) - and now you've got the #1 pick who not only didn't earn the job but clearly has failed to earn the job and a massive controversy hanging over the franchise.

I think just making the clean break is the way to go, although no training camp/minicamps is going to make it really hard to start a rookie from day 1 this year.

JPhillips · 04-29-2020, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Agreed, not only that, but if Joe competes and beats Dalton and starts say mid-year, there is a lot more cohesion down the road than if he is just awarded the job.

I don't know about that. If the team is terrible the question will be, why not sooner? If the team is good the question will be, why now? And either way, without game results it's impossible to show who is better.

I think the Bengals would have loved to get rid of Dalton and remove any hint of controversy, but nobody wanted him at a price the Bengals would agree to. They may still cut him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's on the team next season. The team is doing some things differently, but the history of Mike Brown is that he doesn't like to spend money to get rid of players.

Arles · 04-29-2020, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But is there, though? Looking at anecdotes doesn't prove anything.

I think the real issues are whether or not you draft a QB capable of being an above-average starter and surround him with talented players of the offense. I'm open to the idea that QBs can improve without playing, but the contention that this happens regularly enough to be the best manner of development acks any supporting data.

It's kind of like everyone not in the room raise your hand. It's a hard thing to prove without the alternative. But it seems like many of the best QBs have sat atleast one year going back to 2000: Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, Palmer, Warner, Rivers and Romo. But you also have Peyton, Wilson, Ryan, Dak, Ben, Luck and Cam who played right out of the gate. You also have guys like Eli and Watson who played partial seasons so it's hard to tell. You also have the RGIII/Cousins parallel where RGIII played great his first year but got pretty beat up and flamed out. Meanwhile Cousins sat with Shanahan and LaFleur for two years and has had a pretty nice career.

It would make sense that waiting helps you avoid getting killed if you have a bad team and can help you adapt to the NFL a little better. Taking a while to read a defense probably isn't great for your health as a rookie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

In the specific case of the Packers, I've already been clear that I think using a pick on a QB rather than maximizing the talent around a HOF QB is a mistake.

That may very well be. But with no real offseason and a limited camp, what are the odds a WR or OT taken in the 20s has a big impact this year? Seems unlikely. Even for a normal year, getting that next good starting QB seems a lot more valuable than a slot WR or starting MLB. And with 1st rounders being a coin flip, I would atleast take one (if not two) shots on a future starting QB in the final 4-5 of my good starter. The upside of hitting is so enormous and it is really long odds to find a good starter after pick 32.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This also kinda seems to beg the question of whether there's a QB believed to be any better available 2-3 years out than whatever will fall from the sky when you "have" to draft one.

But having the choice for 3-4 straight years would appear to give you better odds than just being forced to do it on one season. Plus, we get back to the idea of getting to groom the player until he shows he is ready to play (instead of throwing him to the wolves his rookie season).

Quote:

Also, is the potential turmoil created by drafting one (see Packers, Green Bay) worth whatever undefined benefits having them around early provides. Their presence doesn't take place in a vacuum, there are non-financial costs associated with those moves.

This is probably the best reason not to. You do create turmoil by doing this. But, if you are a good organization and confident in your job, you can get by it. Brady won after getting Jimmy. Favre nearly made the Super Bowl after Rodgers. The Chiefs trading up for Mahomes after Alex Smith had a pro-bowl season. I'm sure the current players/starter would have preferred a better player with the pick in each of those spots.

JonInMiddleGA · 04-29-2020, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

Plus, we get back to the idea of getting to groom the player until he shows he is ready to play (instead of throwing him to the wolves his rookie season).

Which is probably the part that I don't necessarily buy into having much value when you get right down to it.

This article is from 2017 but there's 46 QBs that will be familiar to all of us, listing the number of games into their career where there first start came.

Most of the betters ones with sizable experience holding clipboards were blocked and many seem fair bets to have had the same basic career arc regardless while no amount of experience really seemed to help the ones that were destined for mediocrity or worse.

NobodyHere · 04-30-2020, 10:33 AM

Looks like the Dalton/Bengal divorce is official.

Arles · 04-30-2020, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which is probably the part that I don't necessarily buy into having much value when you get right down to it.

This article is from 2017 but there's 46 QBs that will be familiar to all of us, listing the number of games into their career where there first start came.

Most of the betters ones with sizable experience holding clipboards were blocked and many seem fair bets to have had the same basic career arc regardless while no amount of experience really seemed to help the ones that were destined for mediocrity or worse.

That story isn't completely fair. Saying a guy like Cousins started in his 14th game makes the impression that he was a starter from then on. Cousins started one game (#14) his rookie season, just three in his second season and then five in his third. If you look at these 46, it seems pretty clear that the new normal is to draft a QB in the first round and play him by midseason his rookie year. The only real starting level guy who had to wait more than that in the past 10 years are Mahomes, Goff and Lamar Jackson. The other 23 first round QBs have all started significant games in year 1.

So, the point is it used to work well (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Palmer, Rivers) - but teams just stopped doing that in 2010. Any QB you drafted in round 1 was immediately named a starter and thrown into the fire (regardless of readiness). Do we know that waiting helped Mahomes, Goff and Lamar? We can't prove it, but it is interesting that those are the only three who had to wait and all seem to be on the path for a good career. I just think there's so much pressure from the fan base to get their new high pick on the field that teams just don't have the patience to develop QBs anymore. And my questions was if that was really the best way?

QuikSand · 04-30-2020, 12:45 PM

And for Goff's case as a rookie, don't forget that the "plan" to sit him in retrospect doesn't match up with the vibe at the time, which was very clearly that he had no idea what he was doing in camp and practice, and was far away from playing. His case was different from Mahomes and Jackson, where the team was essentially okay with their veteran starter but planning longer term with the selection.

JPhillips · 04-30-2020, 12:54 PM

I guess I have at least two questions,

How much can NFL players improve once they enter the league?

How much of that improvement is dependent upon playing time?

I know the answers are going to vary from player to player, but there should be a way to get some data tht at least suggests whether player improvement benefits from not playing for some period of time.

edit: This is when I wish I were more of a sats guy and could figure out some way to study these questions.

sabotai · 04-30-2020, 02:20 PM

There would be a few variables you would need to account for. For one, Arles brought up that Kirk Cousins sat for most of his first three years, but he was sitting behind another rookie (RGIII).

So I guess you would need to look at

QBs that took over the starting job in his rookie year
QBs that sat behind veteran QBs
QBs that sat or mostly sat behind other non-veteran QBs

Since part of the main argument for sitting a rookie is to sit him behind a veteran, Kirk Cousin wouldn't really count, right? And what about Philip Rivers? Drew Brees was still on his rookie contract when he was drafted. Does Rivers sitting behind Brees, who had only been in the league 3 years (started 2), really count?

So by whittling it down to just QBs that started right away vs. QBs that sat behind aged veterans...the sample size is getting pretty small. And you can make all kinds of arguments for why this QB counts or this one doesn't, and just taking 1 out or putting 1 in skews the results significantly.

Arles · 04-30-2020, 02:47 PM

One thing with Cousins is while he was behind RGIII, here were the people on the 2012 Redskins coaching staff:
Mike Shanahan
Kyle Shanahan
Matt LaFleur
Sean McVay

That may have been one of the more "QB guru" loaded groups assembled in the past 20 years. So, you have to think sitting with those guys for 2-3 seasons really helped Cousins develop. I think it's more the coaching staff than the veteran QB that helps player improvement. I know for Aaron, people attribute him working with Mike McCarthy, Joe Philbin, Ben McAdoo and Tom Clements much more than any great mentoring from Favre.

albionmoonlight · 04-30-2020, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

One thing with Cousins is while he was behind RGIII, here were the people on the 2012 Redskins coaching staff:
Mike Shanahan
Kyle Shanahan
Matt LaFleur
Sean McVay

That may have been one of the more "QB guru" loaded groups assembled in the past 20 years. So, you have to think sitting with those guys for 2-3 seasons really helped Cousins develop. I think it's more the coaching staff than the veteran QB that helps player improvement. I know for Aaron, people attribute him working with Mike McCarthy, Joe Philbin, Ben McAdoo and Tom Clements much more than any great mentoring from Favre.

Didn't Favre pretty much tell him to fuck off?

bhlloy · 04-30-2020, 03:27 PM

The "only talking about first rounders" feels like a bit of a cherry pick to me as well. Love is closer or as close to Geno Smith, Christian Hackenburg and DeShone Kizer than he is to Goff in terms of draft position. No matter how you slice it, it's an incredibly small sample size with caveats left and right in terms of situation, I don't know how you can draw any conclusion.

Arles · 04-30-2020, 03:35 PM

Initially, McCarthy was the one who really worked with him. I think that is one of the reasons Green Bay was OK moving on. It may be a little like LaFleur and Love. I think it would have been tough for Mike Sherman to go with Rodgers over Favre. Just like it would have been tough for McCarthy to go with Love over Rodgers in three seasons (if it was needed).

Arles · 04-30-2020, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

The "only talking about first rounders" feels like a bit of a cherry pick to me as well. Love is closer or as close to Geno Smith, Christian Hackenburg and DeShone Kizer than he is to Goff in terms of draft position. No matter how you slice it, it's an incredibly small sample size with caveats left and right in terms of situation, I don't know how you can draw any conclusion.

Yeah, the reason I brought up "first round pick" is you get a 4-year contract with a 5th year option. That makes the "wait and develop" strategy a little more feasible than say a 3rd round pick who expires in 3 years.

stevew · 05-01-2020, 05:27 AM

Holy fuck, don’t watch any snippet from that Alex Smith E60. Even rebuilt his leg looks like he got attacked by a shark or stepped on a landmine.

jbergey22 · 05-01-2020, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Didn't Favre pretty much tell him to fuck off?

Speaking of Favre...

He had something to say about the Love pick

Brett Favre says he thinks Aaron Rodgers won't finish career with Packers

They might need Love(Literally and Figuratively) sooner than expected.

Arles · 05-01-2020, 02:09 PM

Aaron has no options in the next 2 years. It is literally impossible for Green Bay to cut or trade him. The Packers and Aaron are stuck together through 2022. All this is moot

jbergey22 · 05-01-2020, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

Aaron has no options in the next 2 years. It is literally impossible for Green Bay to cut or trade him. The Packers and Aaron are stuck together through 2022. All this is moot

Quite likely. I think I read 2021 it might be possible to move him.

In any case, get that new game done so I can quit bugging you about Love and the Packers.

stevew · 05-01-2020, 02:42 PM

Jordan Love was originally named Michael Jordan Love lol

sabotai · 05-01-2020, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Quite likely. I think I read 2021 it might be possible to move him.

In any case, get that new game done so I can quit bugging you about Love and the Packers.

This year, his cap hit is $21.6m and his dead cap hit would be $51.1m. So, yeah, he's not going anywhere in 2020.

In 2021, his cap hit is $36.3m and his dead cap would be $31.5m, and depending on when they move him, that can be separated over 2 seasons (2021 and 2022). If they wait until after 6/1/2021, the dead cap money would be split like this:

2021 Dead Cap: $14,352,000
2022 Dead Cap: $17,204,000
2021 Cap Savings: $22,000,000

According to this anyway: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-ba...-rodgers-3745/

JPhillips · 05-01-2020, 03:21 PM

I'm not saying any of you are wrong, but moving on from Rodgers as quickly as possible seems nuts to me. What are the odds that Love is better than Rodgers in 2021?

bhlloy · 05-01-2020, 03:48 PM

That’s not taking into account how much the Rodgers - LaFleur/front office relationship has broken down by then though. There zero chance Love is better than him, but if Rodgers demands out that’s a moot point.

Arles · 05-01-2020, 03:59 PM

Most of the reasonable people talking about this (not talking about the click-bait interviews that never involve talking to Rodgers) are saying that it seems likely that Rodgers starts in 2020-2022 barring injury. Then, in the offseason after 2022, the team will see where both QBs will be. Rodgers will be 39 and Love will have three years in the system. Rodgers would be going into his final year of his contract and if he were cut, it save the team $26 mil ($2.8 mil in dead money).

Everyone acts like Rodgers will be all crabby with Love as a mentor, I just don't see it. Not only did he site behind Favre without throwing a fit for 3 years, but the year he was "supposed" to start - they team drafted Brian Brohm in the 2nd to compete with him. Every interview with Brohm was about how cool Rodgers was to him and how he helped him learn the system. Even guys like Flynn and Hundley later all raved about Rodgers as a mentor.

Let's be honest, Love isn't close to polished enough to push Aaron in 2020 or 2021 (esp with the limited offseason). So, it wouldn't surprise me if Aaron was cool with him and helped him like he did Brohm, Flynn and Hundley. In his mind, he will probably still be better than Love in his 40s - so I doubt he's threatened. If he was ever going to be a dick to another QB, it would have been after he waited 3 years behind a crabby Favre and then saw the team use a 2nd round pick on his competition. And, he just wasn't.

As to LaFleur, I'm not sure there's a ton of animosity there. LaFleur isn't the GM, Gutekunst is. Plus, LaFleur completely changed the offense he wanted to run to suit Rodgers. I just think he isn't as attached to Rodgers as McCarthy was. It seems a lot like when McCarthy came in after Mike Sherman. McCarthy helped mentor Rodgers and there were stories he wanted to run Favre out - but that wasn't true. He was just more open to switching to him than Sherman ever would have been. LaFleur would probably be more open to moving on from an older Rodgers than McCarthy - but that doesn't mean he wants to run him out. He still wants to win and that isn't happening with Love in 2020 or 2021.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-01-2020, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Holy fuck, don’t watch any snippet from that Alex Smith E60. Even rebuilt his leg looks like he got attacked by a shark or stepped on a landmine.

Twitter just provided me with WAY more still photos of his leg than I ever needed to see.

The necrotic leg a few days after the injury and then the surgical pic of what they had to remove to try to save the leg, both are pretty much killing my desire to eat dinner tonight.

Atocep · 05-02-2020, 04:13 PM

The Bears decline Trubisky's 5th year option.

bhlloy · 05-02-2020, 05:02 PM

Oof... 25 million for the option year? I had no idea draft picks were paid that much, even inside the first couple of picks. No brainer for the Bears... outside of the miniscule chance he looks great this year they can absolutely do better for that kind of coin.

stevew · 05-02-2020, 06:17 PM

I love option decline day. Just 3 years ago we were hearing about how all these guys were excellent system fits and franchise building blocks.

AlexB · 05-03-2020, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I love option decline day. Just 3 years ago we were hearing about how all these guys were excellent system fits and franchise building blocks.

Which puts this year’s “can’t miss” top 5, possibly all the way down to 8 by reports, into a little perspective

RendeR · 05-03-2020, 11:47 AM

No-one talking about Dalton to Dallas?

huh.

Lathum · 05-03-2020, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

That’s not taking into account how much the Rodgers - LaFleur/front office relationship has broken down by then though. There zero chance Love is better than him, but if Rodgers demands out that’s a moot point.

Not sure how you can say there is no way after watching what Maholmes has done. Rodgers will be what, 37-38 in 2021 and Love wold have had a season to sit behind him and learn.

You also can't underestimate the value of having a good QB on a rookie contract. It allows you to fill in multiple positions, although Green Bay hasn't been very good with free agents historically but I think thats more on the previous regime.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-03-2020, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

No-one talking about Dalton to Dallas?

Eh, I suspect he was easy to convince cause of the whole living in Dallas, doesn't have to move during the uncertainty, etc etc.

I figure the only way he sees the field is if something happens to Dak.

Thomkal · 05-03-2020, 12:46 PM

Not where I was expecting him to go (NE maybe?), but makes sense for him given where he lives and Cowboys needing a quality backup/starter

stevew · 05-03-2020, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB

Which puts this year’s “can’t miss” top 5, possibly all the way down to 8 by reports, into a little perspective

I think they said picks 2-7 all had their options declined this year.

I don’t get declining Trashbisky though. You pick it up, hold a camp battle. If he beats Foles by a ton, 25m is a reasonable price for one year. If Foles out plays him, you just send him off to never never land like RG3 and don’t play him all season. That way he doesn’t get hurt and won’t activate the guarantee.

Now if he comes out all aces this year, you have to franchise tag him for more than the tender amount or do a panic extension in week 10 if say he’s 3rd in the league in QBR or something. Likely won’t happen, but sometimes it takes 3-4 years to get guys clicking.

stevew · 05-03-2020, 02:11 PM

Dalton isn’t awesome but with those offensive weapons and line I’m not sure he’s that dissimilar to dak

cuervo72 · 05-03-2020, 04:14 PM

Dallas brings in a red-headed QB to hold a clipboard?

Ladies and gentlemen, say hello to the next Head Coach of the Cowboys!

albionmoonlight · 05-03-2020, 04:33 PM

Dalton to the Cowboys makes sense.

Like Bridgewater to the Saints last season.

If you are a team with SB aspirations, then you should have a backup QB who can keep you competitive if your starter is out for a month.

And if he looks good doing it? Then another team will sign him, and you'll get a nice comp pick for it.

stevew · 05-07-2020, 12:03 AM

Wow Earl Smith’s wife don’t play around. Dude could have been shot in the head

Danny · 05-07-2020, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I think they said picks 2-7 all had their options declined this year.

I don’t get declining Trashbisky though. You pick it up, hold a camp battle. If he beats Foles by a ton, 25m is a reasonable price for one year. If Foles out plays him, you just send him off to never never land like RG3 and don’t play him all season. That way he doesn’t get hurt and won’t activate the guarantee.

Now if he comes out all aces this year, you have to franchise tag him for more than the tender amount or do a panic extension in week 10 if say he’s 3rd in the league in QBR or something. Likely won’t happen, but sometimes it takes 3-4 years to get guys clicking.

I think Nagy knows enough where he is pretty confident hes not the guy. I actually think this is smart. Dont hold the franchise back sticking with s guy you know just doesnt have it

QuikSand · 05-07-2020, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Wow Earl /Thomas/’s wife don’t play around. Dude could have been shot in the head

The coverage as he did his "get ahead of it" video was weird, locally. Ravens after the Ray Rice incident have been very aggressive on their image regarding domestic violence, which this situation seemingly shaped up to be (and was widely assumed to be, based on the oblique wording in his own video), until the details came out via TMZ that she was the one threatening him.

It had already come out that the Ravens would release Thomas. No clue what happens from here, though.

HomerSimpson98 · 05-07-2020, 09:21 AM

Hmmm, so wives frown on husbands and their brothers double-teaming a chick? Good to know. WTF Earl. Dumb ass longhorns. Play the bongos with mcconaughey when its horny time or something

Honolulu_Blue · 05-07-2020, 09:52 AM

You know, if Earl had just been engaged in proper social distancing like the rest of us, none of this would have happened.

molson · 05-07-2020, 02:34 PM

thesloppy · 05-07-2020, 02:52 PM

^ ha!

NobodyHere · 05-07-2020, 02:57 PM

I don't think I could bang a chick with my brother.

Could you?

Should there be a poll?

miami_fan · 05-07-2020, 03:37 PM

Now this is the locker room talk I am hear for!

EDIT: Until that point when someone takes the joke a bit too far and then we get a thousand think pieces.

JPhillips · 05-07-2020, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I don't think I could bang a chick with my brother.

Could you?

Should there be a poll?

I have three brothers, and that's a hard no for all three.

bob · 05-08-2020, 09:39 AM

If the NFL season doesn't happen, do the players get paid? I haven't seen anything about that.

Also, any schedule talk?

Ryche · 05-08-2020, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob

If the NFL season doesn't happen, do the players get paid? I haven't seen anything about that.

Also, any schedule talk?

The schedule was released last night. The season will happen, even if it's in empty stadiums.

albionmoonlight · 05-08-2020, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryche

The schedule was released last night. The season will happen, even if it's in empty stadiums.

The NFL makes so much money off the TV contracts that they will (IMO) play no matter what. They would take a hell of a hit if they can't sell tickets, but I think that they could survive.

Also, aren't most teams 100% season tickets? The teams already have the ticket money. Even if it isn't really safe to pack 70,000 people together, couldn't they just do it anyway, and if half the stadium is empty, they've still got the money.

albionmoonlight · 05-08-2020, 09:57 AM

dola to get away from COVID talk:

This might be the year that I get rid of Sunday Ticket. The two Saints/Panthers games will be televised here. And then the Saints have so many primetime and late window games that they will be on regular TV more often than not.

Not sure if it is worth $300+ for the few games that I wouldn't be able to see otherwise.

04-30-2020, 10:33 AM	#555
NobodyHere Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2013	Looks like the Dalton/Bengal divorce is official. __________________ "I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney"

04-30-2020, 12:54 PM	#558
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	I guess I have at least two questions, How much can NFL players improve once they enter the league? How much of that improvement is dependent upon playing time? I know the answers are going to vary from player to player, but there should be a way to get some data tht at least suggests whether player improvement benefits from not playing for some period of time. edit: This is when I wish I were more of a sats guy and could figure out some way to study these questions. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers Last edited by JPhillips : 04-30-2020 at 12:55 PM.

04-30-2020, 02:47 PM	#560
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	One thing with Cousins is while he was behind RGIII, here were the people on the 2012 Redskins coaching staff: Mike Shanahan Kyle Shanahan Matt LaFleur Sean McVay That may have been one of the more "QB guru" loaded groups assembled in the past 20 years. So, you have to think sitting with those guys for 2-3 seasons really helped Cousins develop. I think it's more the coaching staff than the veteran QB that helps player improvement. I know for Aaron, people attribute him working with Mike McCarthy, Joe Philbin, Ben McAdoo and Tom Clements much more than any great mentoring from Favre. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com Last edited by Arles : 04-30-2020 at 02:47 PM.

04-30-2020, 03:35 PM	#563
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Initially, McCarthy was the one who really worked with him. I think that is one of the reasons Green Bay was OK moving on. It may be a little like LaFleur and Love. I think it would have been tough for Mike Sherman to go with Rodgers over Favre. Just like it would have been tough for McCarthy to go with Love over Rodgers in three seasons (if it was needed). __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

05-01-2020, 02:09 PM	#567
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Aaron has no options in the next 2 years. It is literally impossible for Green Bay to cut or trade him. The Packers and Aaron are stuck together through 2022. All this is moot __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

04-29-2020, 03:50 PM	#551
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	The obvious counterpoint to that is he doesn't play well enough to beat him out or Dalton turns into 2019 Ryan Tannehill (unlikely, but stranger things have happened) - and now you've got the #1 pick who not only didn't earn the job but clearly has failed to earn the job and a massive controversy hanging over the franchise. I think just making the clean break is the way to go, although no training camp/minicamps is going to make it really hard to start a rookie from day 1 this year.

04-30-2020, 12:45 PM	#557
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	And for Goff's case as a rookie, don't forget that the "plan" to sit him in retrospect doesn't match up with the vibe at the time, which was very clearly that he had no idea what he was doing in camp and practice, and was far away from playing. His case was different from Mahomes and Jackson, where the team was essentially okay with their veteran starter but planning longer term with the selection.

04-30-2020, 02:20 PM	#559
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	There would be a few variables you would need to account for. For one, Arles brought up that Kirk Cousins sat for most of his first three years, but he was sitting behind another rookie (RGIII). So I guess you would need to look at QBs that took over the starting job in his rookie year QBs that sat behind veteran QBs QBs that sat or mostly sat behind other non-veteran QBs Since part of the main argument for sitting a rookie is to sit him behind a veteran, Kirk Cousin wouldn't really count, right? And what about Philip Rivers? Drew Brees was still on his rookie contract when he was drafted. Does Rivers sitting behind Brees, who had only been in the league 3 years (started 2), really count? So by whittling it down to just QBs that started right away vs. QBs that sat behind aged veterans...the sample size is getting pretty small. And you can make all kinds of arguments for why this QB counts or this one doesn't, and just taking 1 out or putting 1 in skews the results significantly.

04-30-2020, 03:27 PM	#562
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	The "only talking about first rounders" feels like a bit of a cherry pick to me as well. Love is closer or as close to Geno Smith, Christian Hackenburg and DeShone Kizer than he is to Goff in terms of draft position. No matter how you slice it, it's an incredibly small sample size with caveats left and right in terms of situation, I don't know how you can draw any conclusion.

05-01-2020, 05:27 AM	#565
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Holy fuck, don’t watch any snippet from that Alex Smith E60. Even rebuilt his leg looks like he got attacked by a shark or stepped on a landmine.

05-01-2020, 02:42 PM	#569
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Jordan Love was originally named Michael Jordan Love lol

05-01-2020, 03:21 PM	#571
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	I'm not saying any of you are wrong, but moving on from Rodgers as quickly as possible seems nuts to me. What are the odds that Love is better than Rodgers in 2021? __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

05-01-2020, 03:48 PM	#572
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	That’s not taking into account how much the Rodgers - LaFleur/front office relationship has broken down by then though. There zero chance Love is better than him, but if Rodgers demands out that’s a moot point.

05-01-2020, 03:59 PM	#573
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Most of the reasonable people talking about this (not talking about the click-bait interviews that never involve talking to Rodgers) are saying that it seems likely that Rodgers starts in 2020-2022 barring injury. Then, in the offseason after 2022, the team will see where both QBs will be. Rodgers will be 39 and Love will have three years in the system. Rodgers would be going into his final year of his contract and if he were cut, it save the team $26 mil ($2.8 mil in dead money). Everyone acts like Rodgers will be all crabby with Love as a mentor, I just don't see it. Not only did he site behind Favre without throwing a fit for 3 years, but the year he was "supposed" to start - they team drafted Brian Brohm in the 2nd to compete with him. Every interview with Brohm was about how cool Rodgers was to him and how he helped him learn the system. Even guys like Flynn and Hundley later all raved about Rodgers as a mentor. Let's be honest, Love isn't close to polished enough to push Aaron in 2020 or 2021 (esp with the limited offseason). So, it wouldn't surprise me if Aaron was cool with him and helped him like he did Brohm, Flynn and Hundley. In his mind, he will probably still be better than Love in his 40s - so I doubt he's threatened. If he was ever going to be a dick to another QB, it would have been after he waited 3 years behind a crabby Favre and then saw the team use a 2nd round pick on his competition. And, he just wasn't. As to LaFleur, I'm not sure there's a ton of animosity there. LaFleur isn't the GM, Gutekunst is. Plus, LaFleur completely changed the offense he wanted to run to suit Rodgers. I just think he isn't as attached to Rodgers as McCarthy was. It seems a lot like when McCarthy came in after Mike Sherman. McCarthy helped mentor Rodgers and there were stories he wanted to run Favre out - but that wasn't true. He was just more open to switching to him than Sherman ever would have been. LaFleur would probably be more open to moving on from an older Rodgers than McCarthy - but that doesn't mean he wants to run him out. He still wants to win and that isn't happening with Love in 2020 or 2021. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com Last edited by Arles : 05-01-2020 at 04:05 PM.

05-02-2020, 04:13 PM	#575
Atocep Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Puyallup, WA	The Bears decline Trubisky's 5th year option.

05-02-2020, 05:02 PM	#576
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	Oof... 25 million for the option year? I had no idea draft picks were paid that much, even inside the first couple of picks. No brainer for the Bears... outside of the miniscule chance he looks great this year they can absolutely do better for that kind of coin.

05-02-2020, 06:17 PM	#577
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I love option decline day. Just 3 years ago we were hearing about how all these guys were excellent system fits and franchise building blocks. Last edited by stevew : 05-02-2020 at 06:18 PM.

05-03-2020, 11:47 AM	#579
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	No-one talking about Dalton to Dallas? huh. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

05-03-2020, 12:46 PM	#582
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	Not where I was expecting him to go (NE maybe?), but makes sense for him given where he lives and Cowboys needing a quality backup/starter __________________ Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time!

05-03-2020, 02:11 PM	#584
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Dalton isn’t awesome but with those offensive weapons and line I’m not sure he’s that dissimilar to dak Last edited by stevew : 05-03-2020 at 02:16 PM.

05-03-2020, 04:14 PM	#585
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Dallas brings in a red-headed QB to hold a clipboard? Ladies and gentlemen, say hello to the next Head Coach of the Cowboys! __________________ null

05-03-2020, 04:33 PM	#586
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Dalton to the Cowboys makes sense. Like Bridgewater to the Saints last season. If you are a team with SB aspirations, then you should have a backup QB who can keep you competitive if your starter is out for a month. And if he looks good doing it? Then another team will sign him, and you'll get a nice comp pick for it.

05-07-2020, 12:03 AM	#587
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Wow Earl Smith’s wife don’t play around. Dude could have been shot in the head

05-07-2020, 09:21 AM	#590
HomerSimpson98 High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Cowtown, TX	Hmmm, so wives frown on husbands and their brothers double-teaming a chick? Good to know. WTF Earl. Dumb ass longhorns. Play the bongos with mcconaughey when its horny time or something

05-07-2020, 09:52 AM	#591
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	You know, if Earl had just been engaged in proper social distancing like the rest of us, none of this would have happened. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

05-07-2020, 02:34 PM	#592
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains

05-07-2020, 02:52 PM	#593
thesloppy Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: PDX	^ ha! __________________ Last edited by thesloppy : Today at 05:35 PM.

05-07-2020, 02:57 PM	#594
NobodyHere Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2013	I don't think I could bang a chick with my brother. Could you? Should there be a poll? __________________ "I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney"

05-07-2020, 03:37 PM	#595
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	Now this is the locker room talk I am hear for! EDIT: Until that point when someone takes the joke a bit too far and then we get a thousand think pieces. __________________ "The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 Last edited by miami_fan : 05-07-2020 at 03:41 PM.

05-08-2020, 09:39 AM	#597
bob College Starter Join Date: Oct 2004	If the NFL season doesn't happen, do the players get paid? I haven't seen anything about that. Also, any schedule talk?

05-08-2020, 09:57 AM	#600
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	dola to get away from COVID talk: This might be the year that I get rid of Sunday Ticket. The two Saints/Panthers games will be televised here. And then the Saints have so many primetime and late window games that they will be on regular TV more often than not. Not sure if it is worth $300+ for the few games that I wouldn't be able to see otherwise.

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