WW LXIV- The Wedding- GAME OVER GUESTS WIN

[Arles]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Since I am admiteddly confused a bit as the one cleared person I have is the one fake-revealing, here's my proposal, everyone does one of two things.

1. You vote with me (my vote in the next post)
2. You vote FOR me. String me up. If I then die as the Seer, you'll at least know who to vote for next (BK and CR)

The more I look at this, the more this makes sense for the DQ. He doesn't state the options as "Vote with me and believe me" or "Vote with DT and believe him".

IMO, those are the real options. Instead, he says "Vote with me or vote for me". If he is the DQ, then the wolves would much rather have him voted off (as he counts for a guest) than a real wolf. It's almost that he hopes he gets voted off if we don't believe him (not RA). That's not seer behavior, that's DQ behavior.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Arles

The more I look at this, the more this makes sense for the DQ. He doesn't state the options as "Vote with me and believe me" or "Vote with DT and believe him".

IMO, those are the real options. Instead, he says "Vote with me or vote for me". If he is the DQ, then the wolves would much rather have him voted off (as he counts for a guest) than a real wolf. It's almost that he hopes he gets voted off if we don't believe him (not RA). That's not seer behavior, that's DQ behavior.

I'm doing that to show you how serious I am about being right. LIke a "Hey, if you don't believe me, KILL ME" kind of thing. If that's not as strong a message as I would think it is, then ok, vote RA. But you should still be believing me Arles.

I mean let's be realistic, if you vote for me and I turn up Drama Queen, RA is dead the next day anyhow.

If you vote with me and BK turns up innocent, it's the same difference. He won't though, he's the mother-in-law

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Arles

Actually, my math is off. There's only 4 total wolves including the DQ (who seems to count as a guest). So, our options are (outside of pass being the ex-boyfriend):

Believe DT:
RA is one wolf
JeHe is the DQ
Schmidty/mau/clap/path is the other wolf

Believe JeHe:
Barkeep and CR are the wolves
DT is the DQ

JeHe's case is much too clean for this stage, and I'm leaning towards DT.

While I'll admit that jeheinz's story is too good to be true, it still makes no sense for one wolf to cover for another wolf. We'd both be revealed and with this many players left in the game it doesn't make sense. Not only that, but if jeheinz was a wolf why wouldn't he come up with a more "believable" story to counter DT's reveal? What would his angle be if he was a wolf?

In any case, I have no problem with anyone voting for me, as I am an ordinary villager. I'd fight this strongly if I were the bride or groom but the wolves guessed wrongly with me. The way I see it:

Villagers win no matter what. The only possibilities I see here for the wolves is that the villagers will only get a minor victory instead of a major victory because they hit the bride or groom with a night kill.

Of course I want to make it to the end, but I will gladly sacrifice myself to verify jeheinz's story and ensure a villagers win (major or minor). I just don't see what sense it makes to believe DT.

[jeheinz72]

I'd agree, the village is going to win either way here. I'm just selfish/greedy and I want them to win by believing me off the bat. PLus the sooner they believe me the less chances the wolves have to take swipes at the Bride and Groom, I want that major win. But hey, yeah, if it takes me or you dying to ensure the win in the end then I am ok with that.

The real question is, with the DQ in the game, do we think they started out with 3 or 4 wolves? My guess is 3, since 12 guests, 3 wolves, 1 DQ seems fairest (11/4/1 would be a TOUGH win for the village). Anyhow, that's for a later date I suppose.

[jeheinz72]

Also, if someone does think there is a 4th wolf, I'll gladly take suggestions on who my scan should be tonight (not that I think I'll live to make the scan)

[Raiders Army]

The bottom line to me is that the numbers just don't work out for jeheinz and I both to be wolves. This isn't the time for wolves to play this game. The villagers hold a 10-3 advantage and they need their numbers.

What I don't really get is why would DT come out like that if this were true?

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Olie, what can I do to convince you. You need to believe me. Can I at least get your confirmation that you're on board with the plan that once DT is outed as a liar you'll vote CR or BK?

I guess the first thing that popped into my head was why you didn't scan Mau or myself night 2. Or for that matter, Pass. Why DT on night 2?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Trust me, no one is more surprised by my luck than me. Here's my thinking on why I scanned who I did

Night 1 - BK. I knew he'd be active. I knew he'd post his thoughts. So I picked him as someone I knew I wanted to have the info of "Is he on my side or not"

Night 2 - DT. Since lots of talk was centering on him. I wanted to know "Were the people discussing DT (anti or pro) likely on my side or against me"

Night 3 - CR. Like I said, my inital thought was Pass (making waves, lots of posts) but he got lynched so it went to my backup, CR. I picked him since he had some talk on him (by BK too IIRC) and I knew that our two schedules don't typically line up to where I could get him on and grill him with questions.

I don't buy it. The first day you voted for Mau and seemed fairly sure he was a wolf. If you were the seer, it makes no sense for him not to be your first pick. DT first voted for RendeR, so he could have gone any direction with his pick.

I don't know about the whole bride/groom issue. I had assumed that they hit the Groom Night 2 and that I'd walk in today to find the Groom killed off. Now it looks like at least once, our BG made a protection which rocks. Good job BG, but stay quiet. No need to reveal AT ALL.

Why the groom in night 2 and not the bodyguard? It seems that they could have hit either in night 2. But, I do admit that it looked like someone important would have been dead this morning.

Arles, if you want to stay and vote RA today, that's fine. It's wrong, but I just urge you that tomorrow when you come in and read the events that

A) RA was a guest
B) I'm likely dead in the night kill.

If you're the seer and actually outted all the wolves in the above post - why would they kill you? Given you have no more value (ie, already identified all the wolves), there's no danger in keeping you around. What, are you going to tell us who the bride and groom are next? There's no more wolves to be found according to your posts.

You only consider votes for CR and BK (since DT is the drama queen and would actually HURT our ratio if lynched).

I urge you though to see the light today that my outing myself as a wolf to counter DT would be a horrific blunder on my part, as it'd basically be handing the guests a 2nd wolf (with no additional benefit to the wolves themselves). It would make no sense for me to make such a play in that regard.

It makes complete sense if you are the DQ. By this play on your end, the wolves gain:

1. One additional potential day of confusion after a potentially damaging post by DT.
2. If we vote BK and it turns out he was a guest - common wisdom would be that everyone votes you off. But, this wouldn't hurt the wolves as you would have played your role and your voting off as the DQ hurts our winning ratio.
3. IMO, I think the wolves now know atleast two of the party (Groom/BG and seer). So, if they can get those two out the next two nights, they are in the driver seat even if they lose you.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I guess the first thing that popped into my head was why you didn't scan Mau or myself night 2. Or for that matter, Pass. Why DT on night 2?

Well, part of that is my schedule. I leave for the day at 6 PM EST. So anything that happens between then and the deadline doesn't get factored into my scan. When I left, I think you had just received your first vote, so you weren't on my radar at all.

As far as Pass/Mau/DT my rough strategy was to intentionally stay a day behind since a lot of my info due to my schedule was a day behind. I wanted the info of who I scanned pertaining to not only the votes for them (and who they voted for) but the reaction to those votes. So since DT was a hot-topic on Day One, and a lot of people took a stance on him one way or another, I thought I could get slivers of more information about many more people in addition to knowing what side he fell on.

I dunno if that's stupid or not, but like I said, it's my first time as a Seer.

Pass was my backup scan if DT somehow had been lynched after I left on Day Two (hence he was my primary scan on Night 3, had he not been lynched on Day Three)

As far as Mau, I figured scanning DT was as good as essentially scanning Mau. Had I missed on a wolf last night, Mau would've been my scan tonight (and for kicks he likely will be anyhow).

Does that help clear my thought process up at all?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't buy it. The first day you voted for Mau and seemed fairly sure he was a wolf. If you were the seer, it makes no sense for him not to be your first pick. DT first voted for RendeR, so he could have gone any direction with his pick.

Yeah, I was going for a two-fer. I figured I was essentially scanning Mau by scanning DT. But by doing DT instead of Mau I was getting info on many others as well, whereas no one really took a stance on Mau on Day Two (when I voted for him, you're wrong there, I voted RendeR on Day One)

Originally Posted by Arles

Why the groom in night 2 and not the bodyguard? It seems that they could have hit either in night 2. But, I do admit that it looked like someone important would have been dead this morning.

Oh it could be either combo. Frankly with 2 no-kills I have no idea what's going on with that. It's essentially irrelevant though since once you all kick yourselves for realizing you should've believed me, likely all the wolves will be out in the open (CR and BK, to reiterate)

Originally Posted by Arles

If you're the seer and actually outted all the wolves in the above post - why would they kill you? Given you have no more value (ie, already identified all the wolves), there's no danger in keeping you around. What, are you going to tell us who the bride and groom are next? There's no more wolves to be found according to your posts.

That's a good point, I guess you're right. They'd have no reason to kill me unless there is a 4th wolf. Sweet! I'm all for them not killing me!

Originally Posted by Arles

It makes complete sense if you are the DQ. By this play on your end, the wolves gain:

1. One additional potential day of confusion after a potentially damaging post by DT.
2. If we vote BK and it turns out he was a guest - common wisdom would be that everyone votes you off. But, this wouldn't hurt the wolves as you would have played your role and your voting off as the DQ hurts our winning ratio.
3. IMO, I think the wolves now know atleast two of the party (Groom/BG and seer). So, if they can get those two out the next two nights, they are in the driver seat even if they lose you.

Ok, I see what you are saying here. I guess all I can say to counter is regarding your point #2. They're trying to do exactly that, you just have the "players" mixed up. So just be sure, when you all decide to not believe me and RA comes up good, that you DON'T then compound the mistake by lynching DT since he's actually the DQ.. As long as you agree to that plan, I'm *satisfied


* satisfied to the extent that you're still wrong about all of this but I'll take solace in reiterating a plan which will help secure victory for the guests one day later than actually believing me now would.

[Arles]

Here's my play as I see it:

1. Vote RA off.

1a. If he's not a wolf, you are right, then we will get the remaining two real wolves the next two votes (CR and BK):
Tonight vote RA off, 3 wolves/DQ left (BK, CR, DT). They nail the groom/BG at night.
Tomorrow vote BK off, 2 wolves left (CR/DT). They nail You or guess.
Next night, vote CR off, 1 wolf left (DT). Guesses again at night.
Following night, we win.

No real harm done as they are probably going to land someone in the next two nights from our party and then guess. And, even if we followed your advice, it would take 3 (instead of 4) weeks to end the game. IMO, weeks 3 and 4 will just be wild guesses on their part so there's nothing lost in taking an extra week to get everyone.

1b. If RA is a wolf, then DT will be key in finding the final wolf (I would choose one of Mau, Clap or Schmidty) and we can assume you are the DQ.
Tonight vote RA off, 2 wolves/DQ left (JeHe and ?). They nail the groom/BG or seer at night.
Tomorrow vote - Hope seer survives to find the final wolf. If not, vote JeHe off, 1 wolf left(?). They take out groom/BG or seer.
Next night, Guess again for final wolf - but we just have the groom or BG and bride left. Final wolf guesses again at night.
This repeats..

So, it's clear to me that we can afford to be wrong on RA and still win the game in 2-3 weeks if you are right. If, however, we go BK tonight and he is a guest, we may be hosed. They will probably kill DT or the BG/groom tonight. Then, we will go RA tomorrow and they will finish off the other. At this point, we've lost probably the BG or Groom and seer, and they have one unknown wolf and the DQ left.

[Arles]

I have meetings for the next few hours, so I will check back later to see the discussion.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I guess the first thing that popped into my head was why you didn't scan Mau or myself night 2. Or for that matter, Pass. Why DT on night 2?

The question here is why didn't DT scan mau? Based upon the below quotes from DT on day 1:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

mauboy and RA are drawing my notice for the "seemingly uncoordinated" very coordinated swinging of the vote onto me at this point in my eyes.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

UNVOTE RENDER

VOTE MAUBOY

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Your defense hasn't convinced me of anything DT, I'll keep as is for now. You've said by far more guilty things than I have. I was the first to vote for you, I believe so I'm not a piler or whatever you want to call it.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

howled at any moons lately?

Why didn't he scan mau?

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Arles

Here's my play as I see it:

1. Vote RA off.

1a. If he's not a wolf, you are right, then we will get the remaining two real wolves the next two votes (CR and BK):
Tonight vote RA off, 3 wolves/DQ left (BK, CR, DT). They nail the groom/BG at night.
Tomorrow vote BK off, 2 wolves left (CR/DT). They nail You or guess.
Next night, vote CR off, 1 wolf left (DT). Guesses again at night.
Following night, we win.

No real harm done as they are probably going to land someone in the next two nights from our party and then guess. And, even if we followed your advice, it would take 3 (instead of 4) weeks to end the game. IMO, weeks 3 and 4 will just be wild guesses on their part so there's nothing lost in taking an extra week to get everyone.

1b. If RA is a wolf, then DT will be key in finding the final wolf (I would choose one of Mau, Clap or Schmidty) and we can assume you are the DQ.
Tonight vote RA off, 2 wolves/DQ left (JeHe and ?). They nail the groom/BG or seer at night.
Tomorrow vote - Hope seer survives to find the final wolf. If not, vote JeHe off, 1 wolf left(?). They take out groom/BG or seer.
Next night, Guess again for final wolf - but we just have the groom or BG and bride left. Final wolf guesses again at night.
This repeats..

So, it's clear to me that we can afford to be wrong on RA and still win the game in 2-3 weeks if you are right. If, however, we go BK tonight and he is a guest, we may be hosed. They will probably kill DT or the BG/groom tonight. Then, we will go RA tomorrow and they will finish off the other. At this point, we've lost probably the BG or Groom and seer, and they have one unknown wolf and the DQ left.

I like your plan, and as I said before, am not real comfortable with Heinz's reveal...I'm going to go ahead and vote now, I'll be in and out throughout the day so if something big happens, I can change my vote if I have to...

VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

[Raiders Army]

To be clear, I have no problem being the sacrificial lamb. The villagers win no matter what. I'd like to live to see victory, but I hope you all will see this sacrifice and remember me...

To jeheinz, I think we're playing into the wolves here. The thing that bothers me about this is why would DT come forward at this point in the game? Are we closer to endgame than we think?

Let's say they did a conversion. That would make it 9-4 villagers to wolves. If they take me out, that brings it 8-4. DT or BK gets lynched and it's 8-3. They do a night kill and it's 7-3. They do a conversion and it's 7-4. I still don't get why DT came out at this point. The numbers just don't work out.

[Raiders Army]

The only possibility I see here is that they've done two conversions (which is highly unlikely) and the score is 8-5 villagers to wolves. They take me out and it's 7-5. If they were able to do another conversion, then it would be endgame.

I really doubt that they're able to convert every night, so that makes this possibility extremely remote. Maybe I'm missing something here.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

To be clear, I have no problem being the sacrificial lamb. The villagers win no matter what. I'd like to live to see victory, but I hope you all will see this sacrifice and remember me...

To jeheinz, I think we're playing into the wolves here. The thing that bothers me about this is why would DT come forward at this point in the game? Are we closer to endgame than we think?

Let's say they did a conversion. That would make it 9-4 villagers to wolves. If they take me out, that brings it 8-4. DT or BK gets lynched and it's 8-3. They do a night kill and it's 7-3. They do a conversion and it's 7-4. I still don't get why DT came out at this point. The numbers just don't work out.

The reason I think he did is this

A) It means you'll get lynched today, and he'll get lynched tomorrow (had I not had the hand good enough to reveal). Not only is that 2 "guests" as far as ratio goes not being lynched, but it's 2 chances that a wolf ISN'T voted out.

Also, DT is the Drama Queen, not a wolf, so he doesn't count as a wolf. I'd say WORST case is it's 10-3 with a drama queen right now (3 starter wolves plus a conversion, minus Pass). I think realistically it's 10-2-1 (1 being DT as the DQ).

So if it's 10-3 and you die and the groom dies it's 8-3. Then we string up BK and they kill say me, it's 7-2. Then we string up CR and they kill someone, it's 6-1. I'd like to hope that those remaining 6 good guys would be able to out that last wolf in the two tries they'd have at it.

Ideally though, its 11-2 (for ratio purposes DT counts as a guest). So it'll be 9-2 then 8-1 then ballgame with 6 living guests (I have a feeling CR gets to take someone with him, the rules kind of point to that). And that's fine.

Though if people just FRIGGIN BELIEVED ME it'd go

Lynch BK, 11-1
Someone dies, 10-1
Lynch CR, ballgame with NINE living guests and we get to start a new game.

But hey, as long as people are understanding how to recover from what is seeming like their inevitable mistake (by lynching BK and NOT DT tomorrow) all will be ok...kinda.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

The only possibility I see here is that they've done two conversions (which is highly unlikely) and the score is 8-5 villagers to wolves. They take me out and it's 7-5. If they were able to do another conversion, then it would be endgame.

I really doubt that they're able to convert every night, so that makes this possibility extremely remote. Maybe I'm missing something here.

Yeah, and I'd be surprised if they can convert at all, (with no mention of it). The DQ is the reason, remember he's a vote for them when it all boils down.

[mauchow]

Why did nobody scan me? Because it's assumed that with my early record of being a big mouth would eventually get me lynched, that's why there is no scan of me. There, I said it.

I strongly urge you to not use a scan on me since I'm just a guest of the wedding and it would hurt our chances a wee-bit as the good side. If you want to scan me and find out that I am indeed just a normal guest, be my guest. I've got nothing to hide.

Heinz has more to lose with this reveal than DT does and as of right now that's why I'm sticking with my vote.

Later tonight I'll go step by step WHY nobody should be considering me for a wolf anyways. I don't have the time to put together my votes and all that good stuff, but it is pretty obvious that I'm not a wolf.. at least it should be.

I don't know why I'm being so defensive when I'm not even on the chopping block but I will be anyways because I think I need to for my own sake.

[jeheinz72]

Where's path when ya need him, I know A) He's logical enough to believe me and B) He's smart enough to help me figure out the silver bullet of a point I need to convince the rest of the group to do what is right.

[mauchow]

Will be defensive for my own sake.. and I want to freakin' be alive at the end of a game for once.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Why did nobody scan me? Because it's assumed that with my early record of being a big mouth would eventually get me lynched, that's why there is no scan of me. There, I said it.

I strongly urge you to not use a scan on me since I'm just a guest of the wedding and it would hurt our chances a wee-bit as the good side. If you want to scan me and find out that I am indeed just a normal guest, be my guest. I've got nothing to hide.

Heinz has more to lose with this reveal than DT does and as of right now that's why I'm sticking with my vote.

Later tonight I'll go step by step WHY nobody should be considering me for a wolf anyways. I don't have the time to put together my votes and all that good stuff, but it is pretty obvious that I'm not a wolf.. at least it should be.

I don't know why I'm being so defensive when I'm not even on the chopping block but I will be anyways because I think I need to for my own sake.

I really don't think you're a wolf at the point Mau. DT being on the "bad" side just about confirms it for me. But fact is, I'll be needing to scan SOMEONE tonight, even if it's just a fruitless scan because I kicked ass so much and already found all the dawgone wolves.

[mauchow]

I don't count as someone logical Heinz? Heheh.. thanks.

I wish I could put together something right now, but I'm at a faulty work connection that quits frequently, so I can't go page by page and put together anything at the moment.

[mauchow]

If DT is INDEED the wolf your scan on me would be even more pointless yet. I threw myself under the bus in some eyes by eyeing DT from the get-go. He caught my eye and has always been on my radar as everyone knows. You'd be smarter scanning someone else and I'm sure you're smart enough to know that, too. I know your style, you say one thing and go with another route.. so everyone just pretend I didn't write what I just wrote!

[mauchow]

Personally, I think you need to look at one of the Rahn's, but that's just me.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I don't count as someone logical Heinz? Heheh.. thanks.

I wish I could put together something right now, but I'm at a faulty work connection that quits frequently, so I can't go page by page and put together anything at the moment.

Oh, you do, but I already have your vote (well at this moment I do).

I'd love some assistance here as far as making people see the light. I mean basically it seems like people aren't believing me because DT did his thing first.

So I'm just going to re-iterate how desperately people need to be sure they lynch BK or CR tomorrow so this whole thing doesn't go to pot.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Personally, I think you need to look at one of the Rahn's, but that's just me.

Actually I just put in the order to scan Arlie (not that I really think he's a wolf, but if there is a mysterious 4th wolf out there, I might as well scan away. I tend to believe there are just two true wolves left, CR and BK).

[mauchow]

Well, what you keep saying just makes it sound a little more guilty. It is pretty obvious that if they vote out RA tonight and they're all wrong, OBVIOUSLY they will be going your route because DT may have been wrong.

Now I'm beginning to think that this might be a double fake-out. You are both wolves and by doing this one of you has eliminated each other from being a wolf, until of course the ACTUAL, REAL SEER comes out.

I strongly urge, if it is true, that the real seer scans one of these two guys tonight and doesn't come out with it.

I might go the length of making sure BOTH these guys get voted out after today for this reasoning alone. If DT is wrong, we vote DT then we get rid of Heinz following that. If Heinz is right, we vote DT and see what DT REALLY was.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Well, what you keep saying just makes it sound a little more guilty. It is pretty obvious that if they vote out RA tonight and they're all wrong, OBVIOUSLY they will be going your route because DT may have been wrong.

Now I'm beginning to think that this might be a double fake-out. You are both wolves and by doing this one of you has eliminated each other from being a wolf, until of course the ACTUAL, REAL SEER comes out.

I strongly urge, if it is true, that the real seer scans one of these two guys tonight and doesn't come out with it.

I might go the length of making sure BOTH these guys get voted out after today for this reasoning alone. If DT is wrong, we vote DT then we get rid of Heinz following that. If Heinz is right, we vote DT and see what DT REALLY was.

I think it's time for me to stop talking altogether then if it's dissuading from the fact that DT is NOT A WOLF. HE IS THE DRAMA QUEEN. That's the main point I care to make, today's vote is just sugar on top

If you follow the logic of that last paragraph (which is exactly what I don't want you to do), the village will lose this game.

With that, I'm out. I'm going to be online but intentionally not look in here until an hour or so before I leave.

[mauchow]

Lots of people viewing the thread and not a whole lot of talking.

[mauchow]

I couldn't finish my paragraph in my long post above, I wanted to add a few more things but bosses came in and I had to cut it short. Anyhow.

We see what happens after today and it can be discussed in good form the rest of the way. I see what you are saying about not wanting to vote DT out because he may be the drama queen and it doesn't count against our numbers, so that I understand. I do. So, we don't vote him out and find another route when the time comes...

I'm still fine for sticking around on this side of the fence for the time being and won't be too upset with anything that does come up in the upcoming night.

[oliegirl]

I don't really know what to think at this point...Mau is going on and on like he's 1 vote away from being voted out tonight, yet I dont' think he has any votes at all...makes me wonder if he's panicking b/c his name has been mentioned a number of times and he's just rambling to make himself feel better.

The DT/Heinz thing really has me wondering who is who and what is what...my gut says the DT is the real seer, but he could be lying and it wouldn't be the first time I was fooled by DT. I think I've played with Heinz before, but nothing about any of his games sticks out in my mind...

I know if I were the seer, and what went down on night 2 happened with Pass, Mau and myself, I would have scanned one of those 3 people (obviously using a different player for myself in the scenario). I find it really odd that none of the 3 of us were scanned that night. But maybe that is just me.

Like I said before, I've put my vote in...we'll see how the rest of the day plays out, but right now, I'm not totally convinced that either of them are telling the entire truth.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Ok, everyone is going to want to read this. I'm highly confused. See, I'm the actual Maid of Honor, and let me tell you, I'm very good at this.

Night One - Barkeep - He's the Mother-in-law
Night Two - DT - It was returned to me that he's a Guest. So hence my confusion. Maybe he's the Drama Queen so he scans as a Guest
Night Three - Cheif Rum - He's the Ex-boyfriend

So yeah, you can imagine my surprise when I got in today to find someone revealed as my role, much less the one person I thought I had "cleared".

String me up as a liar as you want, at least if you do that you'll see I"m the Maid of Honor and you'll have a one-two hit-list for Day Four and Five.

Since I am admiteddly confused a bit as the one cleared person I have is the one fake-revealing, here's my proposal, everyone does one of two things.

1. You vote with me (my vote in the next post)
2. You vote FOR me. String me up. If I then die as the Seer, you'll at least know who to vote for next (BK and CR)

Umm, Pass was the ex-boyfriend! It said that when he died. What are you talking about?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Yeah, and I'd be surprised if they can convert at all, (with no mention of it). The DQ is the reason, remember he's a vote for them when it all boils down.

The other possibility is that they could have banked on the thought that the seer didn't have a wolf yet and wouldn't come out.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I don't really know what to think at this point...Mau is going on and on like he's 1 vote away from being voted out tonight, yet I dont' think he has any votes at all...makes me wonder if he's panicking b/c his name has been mentioned a number of times and he's just rambling to make himself feel better.

The DT/Heinz thing really has me wondering who is who and what is what...my gut says the DT is the real seer, but he could be lying and it wouldn't be the first time I was fooled by DT. I think I've played with Heinz before, but nothing about any of his games sticks out in my mind...

I know if I were the seer, and what went down on night 2 happened with Pass, Mau and myself, I would have scanned one of those 3 people (obviously using a different player for myself in the scenario). I find it really odd that none of the 3 of us were scanned that night. But maybe that is just me.

Like I said before, I've put my vote in...we'll see how the rest of the day plays out, but right now, I'm not totally convinced that either of them are telling the entire truth.

FWIW, it's my and jeheinz's word against DT's. No one else is vouching for DT.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Umm, Pass was the ex-boyfriend! It said that when he died. What are you talking about?

He did correct himself two posts later.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I don't really know what to think at this point...Mau is going on and on like he's 1 vote away from being voted out tonight, yet I dont' think he has any votes at all...makes me wonder if he's panicking b/c his name has been mentioned a number of times and he's just rambling to make himself feel better.

The DT/Heinz thing really has me wondering who is who and what is what...my gut says the DT is the real seer, but he could be lying and it wouldn't be the first time I was fooled by DT. I think I've played with Heinz before, but nothing about any of his games sticks out in my mind...

I know if I were the seer, and what went down on night 2 happened with Pass, Mau and myself, I would have scanned one of those 3 people (obviously using a different player for myself in the scenario). I find it really odd that none of the 3 of us were scanned that night. But maybe that is just me.

Like I said before, I've put my vote in...we'll see how the rest of the day plays out, but right now, I'm not totally convinced that either of them are telling the entire truth.

You are exactly right. I'm rambling just to ramble, to be honest. I just want to make sure there is no scan on me because it is pointless. Just trying not to waste a scan but if it draws more attention and I get a scan anyways.. fine.

As far as not getting a scan on any of us three with what was going on, I can understand why there wasn't a scan. Usually when there are tiffs going on, they tend to sort themselves out after another day or two.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

He did correct himself two posts later.

Yeah, you're the Ex-GIRLfriend CR.

I'd hit on you , but for game purposes, I'm a girl too as the Maid of Honor.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Yeah, you're the Ex-GIRLfriend CR.

I'd hit on you , but for game purposes, I'm a girl too as the Maid of Honor.

I'd hit it....

Oh, wait.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

FWIW, it's my and jeheinz's word against DT's. No one else is vouching for DT.

Arles voted for you, so he's basically siding with DT. Basically we can believe DT and vote for you, or believe Heinz, and vote for BK/CR...

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Correction, CR is the Ex-Girlfriend, not sure why I typed Boyfriend. I'm sure some wolf will glom onto this oversight on my part and get my lynched. At least when it comes out I"m the Seer we'll know it was just a typo.

Nice correction.

Or did you get yourself confused setting up the fake reveal to save RA? Bad move. Arles is right (not that I expect anyone to believe I would say otherwise, with you trying to pin me, too, but he is). This is too clean. You should have eased off.

Like Homer says when Bart changes his 'D' to an 'A' to get to go to summer camp. "What kind of fool do you take me for, boy? A 'B' is more believable. And it's much easier to turn a 'D' into a 'B'. You just got greedy."

VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Nice correction.

Or did you get yourself confused setting up the fake reveal to save RA? Bad move. Arles is right (not that I expect anyone to believe I would say otherwise, with you trying to pin me, too, but he is). This is too clean. You should have eased off.

Like Homer says when Bart changes his 'D' to an 'A' to get to go to summer camp. "What kind of fool do you take me for, boy? A 'B' is more believable. And it's much easier to turn a 'D' into a 'B'. You just got greedy."

VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

Emminently predictable.

As far as greediness, what was I supposed to do? Lie about who I scanned on night 3 and not try to act like I caught two wolves? Make something up? That seems riskier to me, but yeah, like you said, it's not like anyone was expecting you to take my side here.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Emminently predictable.

As far as greediness, what was I supposed to do? Lie about who I scanned on night 3 and not try to act like I caught two wolves? Make something up? That seems riskier to me, but yeah, like you said, it's not like anyone was expecting you to take my side here.

Well, what's one more lie once you have started.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Arles voted for you, so he's basically siding with DT. Basically we can believe DT and vote for you, or believe Heinz, and vote for BK/CR...

The difference is that Arlie can't say 100% that DT is telling the truth. I can tell you that DT is a wolf and jeheinz can tell you that DT is a wolf 100%.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

The difference is that Arlie can't say 100% that DT is telling the truth. I can tell you that DT is a wolf and jeheinz can tell you that DT is a wolf 100%.

Actually I can't say DT is a wolf, he scanned as a Guest. I freely admit that. He's gotta be the Drama Queen.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Nice correction.

Or did you get yourself confused setting up the fake reveal to save RA? Bad move. Arles is right (not that I expect anyone to believe I would say otherwise, with you trying to pin me, too, but he is). This is too clean. You should have eased off.

Like Homer says when Bart changes his 'D' to an 'A' to get to go to summer camp. "What kind of fool do you take me for, boy? A 'B' is more believable. And it's much easier to turn a 'D' into a 'B'. You just got greedy."

VOTE RAIDERS ARMY

Okay smart guy. jeheinz and I have discussed this, but give me your theory on why jeheinz and I are lying at this point in the game. Why would a wolf cover for the other right now when there are 13 players left?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, what's one more lie once you have started.

I prefer to not lie actually. I just wish I could see the PM's you and BK are shooting back and forth "DUDE, WE'RE SCREWED!"

[Raiders Army]

Dola, all you've done is try to discredit jeheinz's story, while improbable is true. You've done nothing to give any motivation behind us working together.

[Raiders Army]

And Daddy Torgo is in the thread. (and hoops...it's times like this I wish you were playing)

[jeheinz72]

Worth updating

RaidersArmy: 7 (DT, NTN, clap, BK, Arlie, olie, CR)
Barkeep: 3 (jeheinz72, RaidersArmy, Mau)

No vote from: path12, Schmidty, Farrah

So since i know DT, BK and CR aren't switching. And we know myself and RA aren't switching, that leaves 8 voters. I need to get 5 of you to agree with me. I have 1, they have 4 and 3 are undecided. This isn't going well.

Since I can't resist posting, I'll have some questions for the haters shortly.