Werewolf XXXVIII: Jack The Ripper (GAME OVER! GOOD WINS ON DAY SEVEN)

[path12]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I know who at least one of the prostitutes are and Barkeep isn't it. Also, if we lynch Barkeep, then we have a strong indication as to if Barkeep is bad or good. Blade's evidence suggests there's a possibility that Barkeep's bad, so I'm willing to go that route to clear path or damn path, depending on the Barkeep lynch result.

I don't get your reasoning. We don't want the prostitutes to die and there are obviously multiple of them around. For you to place that vote after I came out and vouched for him raises you on my suspicion list.

It's not a matter of clearing or damning me, it's a matter of not lynching someone who is good when the bad guys obviously have the potential to thin our numbers rather quickly. I strongly suspect we have very little margin this game to waste on lynching good people to learn info. We have plenty of ways to gather info in this game. It's a matter of finding a way to coordinate our seperate pieces of info without putting too many targets out there to get killed at night.

[SnDvls]

there are 5 players that I have little to no info on in my notes anyone have are read on the following?

DaddyTorgo
Schmidty
Lathum
LoneStarGirl
Raiders Army

[path12]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

there are 5 players that I have little to no info on in my notes anyone have are read on the following?

DaddyTorgo
Schmidty
Lathum
LoneStarGirl
Raiders Army

No read on Torgo or RA. Schmidty is playing his regular confounding game, LSG said she'd be a lot more talkative today but I haven't noticed anything from her. Lathum said a couple of things that I noticed but my notes are at home so I forget what they were offhand. I don't recall them being anything major though.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by path12

I don't get your reasoning. We don't want the prostitutes to die and there are obviously multiple of them around. For you to place that vote after I came out and vouched for him raises you on my suspicion list.

It's not a matter of clearing or damning me, it's a matter of not lynching someone who is good when the bad guys obviously have the potential to thin our numbers rather quickly. I strongly suspect we have very little margin this game to waste on lynching good people to learn info. We have plenty of ways to gather info in this game. It's a matter of finding a way to coordinate our seperate pieces of info without putting too many targets out there to get killed at night.

i would be very suprised if we have as many kills tonight as we had last night...that type of mechanic could make a very short game. i think it is more likely that some of the kills were one time or at least every third night type actions, and that all the baddies used them last night to make sure they got them in before they had a chance to get lynched. blade brought this up earlier (expecting alot of deaths), but i didnt see anyone elaborate on why.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

there are 5 players that I have little to no info on in my notes anyone have are read on the following?

DaddyTorgo
Schmidty
Lathum
LoneStarGirl
Raiders Army

Meeting time for me, before I go for a while, to respond to this..

My vote is on DaddyTorgo right now. I don't know what role or side he is on, but I have a good guess what role he isn't. Plus he hasn't been verified by anyone, trusted by anyone and we don't know his whereabouts last night.

Schmidty hinted he was an urchin, but other than that has been rather his normal play (good or bad)

Lathum has kinda been weird this game and Im not sure what to make of it. Might just be busy RL.. dunno.

LSG also hasn't been too involved evidentally due to RL stuff.

I feel ok about RaidersArmy due to stuff he said on day 1. He was one of the early people who I think backed Fouts and I find it likely he is a common londoner.

[Alan T]

oh one other question I had...

can someone tell me how you go from cavell st (to the east), to Whitechapel rd (center of town) by going through bishopgate district (to the west)?

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Alan T

My last post for a while (maybe 2-3 hours). I find it very disapointing that Barkeep chose to leave without presenting a viable defense.

I've tried to start a map of last night to have an idea of who was where, so we can at least rule out who might not have been who's murderers.

We have the following vouches so far:
Bulletsponge + 2 others he says, but does not state what area
Mr.W states he saw Blade, ntn, St.cronin - whitechapel Rd
Hoops + 4 who he saw leaving cavell but we do not know if they can vouch for him. (as it could be night 0 info he is using based on people's living locations)
Alan - Whitechapel Rd.
Barkeep + 1 other he says who visited him last night. - Commercial Rd.

So this makes my map so far like this:

Bishopsgate:


Whitechapel Rd: (Fouts & BrianD dead)
15. MrWednesday (unverified)
18. AlanT (unverified)
4. Blade6119
13. st. cronin
23. ntndeacon


Commercial Rd: (Tyrith dead)
1. Barkeep49

Cavell:
19. hoopsguy (unverified)


Unknown area:
5. bulletsponge (unverified)


No info:
2. DaddyTorgo
3. Schmidty
7. saldana
8. Lathum
12. path12
14. LoneStarGirl
16. SnDvls
17. dubb93
20. Dodgerchick
21. Raiders Army
22. Swaggs
24. Izulde

Although he does list himself as unverified,. the fact that Alan is claming to have been in whitechapel rd last night is bothering me....there were 4 other people there that have been verified, but not a single one of them has said they saw alan.

i was suspicious of him yesterday, and this type of listing is something he has done in the past when he is a bad guy....he makes a list with a ton of people listed as suspects because they are unvouched for, but doesnt include himself.

[SnDvls]

Mr. W you seemed to have gotten around a lot last night.

wondering what you were doing? you stated you live in Cavell (hoops is hinting at seeing you there) and we know you were in Whitechapel (per post #484)

any of you three on right now (alan, DC, Sal) see him last night?

[saldana]

lunch break is over for me, see you all tonight.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Alan T

oh one other question I had...

can someone tell me how you go from cavell st (to the east), to Whitechapel rd (center of town) by going through bishopgate district (to the west)?

I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I would recommend against lynching Barkeep, at this point. We've got several suggestions why we shouldn't, plus, if he is in fact a prostitute, we can expect Jack to take care of him sooner rather than later.

[path12]

Originally Posted by saldana

i would be very suprised if we have as many kills tonight as we had last night...that type of mechanic could make a very short game. i think it is more likely that some of the kills were one time or at least every third night type actions, and that all the baddies used them last night to make sure they got them in before they had a chance to get lynched. blade brought this up earlier (expecting alot of deaths), but i didnt see anyone elaborate on why.

I didn't mean to suggest that they could kill three every night, but it sure looks like there is at least a chance of multiple kills in the evenings. We'll know more tonight I guess.

I do think that the key will be processing all the pieces of information that we have without revealing our good roles. I think it might have been pretty smart for the bad guys to target regular Londoners last night -- they're out and about and the more they see the bigger the chance of someone getting caught.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.

Umm... NO!!! The lady of the night I visited told me you passed through Bishopsgate, sorry man, this doesn't jive with me.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I live in Cavell St., so hoops may have seen me.

Actually, I did not see you among the four people I did witness. This is not to dispute you living there, just that you were not one of the people I saw there last night.

[SnDvls]

too many fingers are starting to point now

[SnDvls]

vote Mr. Wednesday

his story isn't jiving with me right now

[hoopsguy]

I got a response to my question to Chief Rum on whether someone could be both prostitute and werewolf. Not a direct answer, but here is the part I think was very intersting:

"at the beginning prostitutes are good and count towards good"

This implies that there might be a conversion mechanism out there, but I would be very surprised if it could have been activated on Night 0 or Day 1 to have Barkeep as a killer werewolf on Night 1. So I'm not going down the Barkeep path today.

[dubb93]

Just read and got caught up. I think it's a bad idea to vote Barkeep today. Right, now, it is down to DT, RA and Wednesday for me. I think I'm gonna put some pressure on Torgo and see if we can't get something out of him. This vote is subject to change.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[DaddyTorgo]

wow. so i get a vote from alan because there's a ton of information being thrown out and I'm having trouble processing it with the killer headache I had the other day? that's pretty harsh.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.

In case it's not clear, I'm not denying being in Bishopsgate, it's just that my reason for being there wasn't because it was on the way to Whitechapel Rd.

[DaddyTorgo]

thanks dubb. i was sleeping till 1 (lazy retail worker me). you all want info from me?

[LoneStarGirl]

I don't get an off period till 12:45

Originally Posted by path12

No read on Torgo or RA. Schmidty is playing his regular confounding game, LSG said she'd be a lot more talkative today but I haven't noticed anything from her. Lathum said a couple of things that I noticed but my notes are at home so I forget what they were offhand. I don't recall them being anything major though.

[DaddyTorgo]

as for what I did last night, I was in Whitechapel Road, where I am staying at the Inn during the events of this terrible time in London. I thought about visiting a prostitute or going to the opium den but figured that there'd be a lot of evil about on night 1 and I didn't want to have my shillings robbed away or possibly worse (turns out it was a good night NOT to go out in Whitechapel). For every night I stay in I gain 4 shillings too, so there was a positive to my not going out, it's $$ I can use later.

[hoopsguy]

Does anyone else accumulate money in the manner DT is suggesting?

[LoneStarGirl]

Okay guys, again, sorry for having so much real life junk going on, its not like me, i know. Second, after we had a couple of people vouch for Barkeep, Izulde voted for him. That is way suspicious. I stayed at home last night because I thought there would be too much going on and i didn't want to get killed early. I get 3 shillings a night so i thought what the hell. Other than that, nothing exciting happened

[LoneStarGirl]

Well i guess i answered your question hoops.

[LoneStarGirl]

The fact that Daddy gets money the same way i do makes me think he is good, but i dont know for certain. So i wont vote for him today. Barkeep was cleared so ill stick off of him. so the only other choice right now seems like

vote mr wednesday

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Does anyone else accumulate money in the manner DT is suggesting?

it's what happens when you're a trader passing through town. selling your wares. and no i'm not talking about being horizontal refreshment, although I may check that out tonight...

[path12]

Is it just me, or does there appear to be way too many people who can visit prostitutes/opium dens/earn money/hire urchins to all be plain villagers?

[hoopsguy]

Also, here is the sum total of my question to Chief Rum and the full answer - I verified with him that it is acceptable to do this and figure that since it is allowed it is the best way to allow everyone access to the same info.

Question (Hoops): Can someone be both a prostitute and a bad guy role (werewolf in this
case)?

If both are "roles" I would think this is unlikely. But if "prostitute"
is an occupation that might allow for someone to hold both the role and
occupation.

Looking for any clarification that you think is fair to give.


Answer (Rum): Sorry, but I don't think I can respond to that within the rules of the game. You will have to go with what information you can surmise from start up information in Post #3, and from any information you
uncover through the course of the game.

I will say that at the beginning, prostitutes are good and count toward
good. I can't say whether I have designed the game to change this or not
as it progresses.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[Schmidty]

Can someone explain to me what the point of money is in the game? I'm reading through things, but I'm not understanding.

[Alan T]

It was these two quotes that had me thinking down a tangent earlier..

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

I was a little disappointed with my night action; I was hoping on a bigger circle of trust but the person I visited in Bishopsgate has already been cleared. Bummer.

I was also robbed... bastages. One thing I found out was that Mr. W was passing through Bishopsgate last night.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I wasn't going through Bishopgate to get to Whitechapel.

Which led me to ask this:

Originally Posted by Alan T

oh one other question I had...

can someone tell me how you go from cavell st (to the east), to Whitechapel rd (center of town) by going through bishopgate district (to the west)?

It seems Sndvls had the same line of thinking as he later asked this:

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Mr. W you seemed to have gotten around a lot last night.

wondering what you were doing? you stated you live in Cavell (hoops is hinting at seeing you there) and we know you were in Whitechapel (per post #484)

any of you three on right now (alan, DC, Sal) see him last night?

I phrased mine a little different just because I wasn't sure if moving between alot of areas on purpose or accidental was a sign of someone being bad or being good. It either implies multiple night actions or something else to me... I don't necessarily find that correlation to mean he is bad.. and alot of my thoughts might be leaning to him being good. It would be helpful if some of the people who he stated came to him in whitegate when he called them backed his story. I am just assuming since Blade didn't deny it while he was here that its true though. I doubt I'll vote for Mr.W on this alone.

Originally Posted by saldana

Although he does list himself as unverified,. the fact that Alan is claming to have been in whitechapel rd last night is bothering me....there were 4 other people there that have been verified, but not a single one of them has said they saw alan.

i was suspicious of him yesterday, and this type of listing is something he has done in the past when he is a bad guy....he makes a list with a ton of people listed as suspects because they are unvouched for, but doesnt include himself.

This is pretty interesting to me for a few reasons. Saldana (like ntndeacon) has been one that appears to be clinging to a particular role yet not really offering any fresh or new points of interest about the role. Many people have dropped hints or made references to things in regards to the normal generic villager role this game that I have noticed, but Saldana hasn't even though he is piggybacking on the role from my understanding last night of his comments to Dubbs.

I would think if you are truly the role I assume you are claiming based on last night comments, you wouldn't be finding me too suspicious after the hints I dropped yesterday and today (some of which have later been supported by others). Dunno if there is alot to it, but just something interesting that I have been finding.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I got a response to my question to Chief Rum on whether someone could be both prostitute and werewolf. Not a direct answer, but here is the part I think was very intersting:

"at the beginning prostitutes are good and count towards good"

This implies that there might be a conversion mechanism out there, but I would be very surprised if it could have been activated on Night 0 or Day 1 to have Barkeep as a killer werewolf on Night 1. So I'm not going down the Barkeep path today.

My comment in regards to this... If we are to assume Barkeep started out as a prostitute (as vouched for by Path and Bullet), then we assume he started good. So two options are: Either converted night 1 somehow without path knowing about it (unless path was involved), or he is still good.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

as for what I did last night, I was in Whitechapel Road, where I am staying at the Inn during the events of this terrible time in London. I thought about visiting a prostitute or going to the opium den but figured that there'd be a lot of evil about on night 1 and I didn't want to have my shillings robbed away or possibly worse (turns out it was a good night NOT to go out in Whitechapel). For every night I stay in I gain 4 shillings too, so there was a positive to my not going out, it's $$ I can use later.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Does anyone else accumulate money in the manner DT is suggesting?

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Okay guys, again, sorry for having so much real life junk going on, its not like me, i know. Second, after we had a couple of people vouch for Barkeep, Izulde voted for him. That is way suspicious. I stayed at home last night because I thought there would be too much going on and i didn't want to get killed early. I get 3 shillings a night so i thought what the hell. Other than that, nothing exciting happened

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Well i guess i answered your question hoops.

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

The fact that Daddy gets money the same way i do makes me think he is good, but i dont know for certain. So i wont vote for him today. Barkeep was cleared so ill stick off of him. so the only other choice right now seems like

vote mr wednesday

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

it's what happens when you're a trader passing through town. selling your wares. and no i'm not talking about being horizontal refreshment, although I may check that out tonight...

The last few quotes were in regards to DaddyTorgo's comments. He seemed to be very confused about the stuff we talked about yesterday and said so in the thread, yet today is claiming to have those abilities (visit prostitutes, opium den, etc). He stated he gains money if he stays in (4 shillings a night), and LSG said that she can vouch for that.. but I think you might look closer LSG... mine too is only 3 shillings a night like you.. but the thing is I don't have to stay in to gain those. If you double check yours I am guessing you get your 3 shillings a day regardless if you stay in or not.. So while it seems that DT's is like yours.. I think his might be a bit more different than first glance shows.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Can someone explain to me what the point of money is in the game? I'm reading through things, but I'm not understanding.

Last night you said something like "urchins rule" or something like that. My assumption was you were hinting to your role. If this is the case, do you have methods of gaining money or spending money? Or was this not a hint and just a random statement that you find young boys attractive?

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Can someone explain to me what the point of money is in the game? I'm reading through things, but I'm not understanding.

Money allows us to either visit a prostitute or the opium den.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by path12

Is it just me, or does there appear to be way too many people who can visit prostitutes/opium dens/earn money/hire urchins to all be plain villagers?

My guess is that this would be considered an "ordinary villager role".

[DaddyTorgo]

Okay Alan...for the last time let me explain my timeline:

Night Zero: MASSIVE headache. I won't go so far as to call it a migrane, but it was constant throbbing pain all along the back of my head, from one side to the other. It literally hurt to stand up. So I saw my role-PM from CR and said "okay" but then was unable to be in-thread and following along for the first bunch of stuff. So I had a ton to catch up on, which is where things started to get jumbled.

I do understand the mechanics of the opium den and the prostitutes in the game. That's not what confuses me. What confuses me is reading through the whole thread at breakneck speed trying to catch up and either missing the little "hints" that people drop down, or coming too late to them and being unable to give a little *wink-wink* without looking suspicious.

It's not because I'm evil. It's because I had a huge headache and then had to catch up on a bunch of stuff really quickly. Not to mention the fact that I just switched locations at work and am now under the Adolf Hitler of Starbucks managers for the next several months.

As for my money-earning ability, it's the fact that I have to stay in at night to earn it that makes it worth 4 shillings I would assume. And yes, I'm not your *typical* trader who you might expect to make day-calls. It's because what I'm dealing in isn't cloth or food, but lovely flowers.

[Izulde]

Hmmm. I'll unvote for now and look at the info again later.

UNVOTE BARKEEP

[hoopsguy]

DC, I think the point is that there are a lot of people who are aligning themselves in the "ordinary villager role" when it seems that there are quite a few special roles out there.

- 3+ bad guys, based on three kills
- I know of three prostitutes and there is at least one more out there
- We have already seen three ordinary villagers killed during Night 1

Just seems likely that some of the "bad guys" are hiding in plain site by acting like ordinary villagers.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Alan T

The last few quotes were in regards to DaddyTorgo's comments. He seemed to be very confused about the stuff we talked about yesterday and said so in the thread, yet today is claiming to have those abilities (visit prostitutes, opium den, etc). He stated he gains money if he stays in (4 shillings a night), and LSG said that she can vouch for that.. but I think you might look closer LSG... mine too is only 3 shillings a night like you.. but the thing is I don't have to stay in to gain those. If you double check yours I am guessing you get your 3 shillings a day regardless if you stay in or not.. So while it seems that DT's is like yours.. I think his might be a bit more different than first glance shows.

After expenses and all, I end up with 3 shillings a day, but I don't remember earning money if I stay home, that would be nice as 3 shillings doesn't do much... especially with all the hoodlums around town.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

My guess is that this would be considered an "ordinary villager role".

Thats what I have been saying all along and why I said what I did about my thoughts on St.Cronin yesterday. Without getting into unfair play and quoting parts of my initial PM, it basically says in there that its the normal role. I am not suprised at all to see many people with it. The fact so many people have that ordinary role, it leads me to think the information we get from it might not be entirely helpful or complete (ie: my questions to Blade this morning about his urchin he hired). Part of me wonders if the best benefit we can have is by making a complete picture, as parts of this game is like my tombstone game, knowing who was where over serveral days would have really helped the good guys in that game. THats why I started trying to put that together here as well.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

After expenses and all, I end up with 3 shillings a day, but I don't remember earning money if I stay home, that would be nice as 3 shillings doesn't do much... especially with all the hoodlums around town.

Yeah that was my point.. Daddy's statement makes it clear that he is not an ordinary villager. I am pretty sure ordinary villagers will earn money the way you stated.

So with that said, assuming Daddy is not an ordinary villager, why then would he have other ordinary villager abilities.

Maybe its my normal case of finding suspicion in someone and then every statement that they make that doesn't add up just fueling my suspicion here.. but the more DT talks, the less likely I feel i want to move my vote away from him.

Since DT is not an ordinary villager role as its clear, its a much higher percentage chance he is bad than an average random vote. At least in my mind right now.

[Raiders Army]

There's a lot of process here. I'm still undecided where to put my vote tonight. Just a gut feeling, but I'm tending to trust:

hoops
Blade
Barkeep

I have a strange feeling about Alan and Mr. Wednesday. I can't put my finger on what it is, but maybe I can figure it out later.

Everyone else I don't have a good read on at all. It's also hard to concentrate while you're reading 100+ posts and your wife is having a conversation with you about Christmas gifts.

Anyhow, none of my gut feelings are strong at all. So don't take too much stock in what I'm saying. I need to mull this over and get back to you guys later.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Yeah that was my point.. Daddy's statement makes it clear that he is not an ordinary villager. I am pretty sure ordinary villagers will earn money the way you stated.

So with that said, assuming Daddy is not an ordinary villager, why then would he have other ordinary villager abilities.

Maybe its my normal case of finding suspicion in someone and then every statement that they make that doesn't add up just fueling my suspicion here.. but the more DT talks, the less likely I feel i want to move my vote away from him.

Since DT is not an ordinary villager role as its clear, its a much higher percentage chance he is bad than an average random vote. At least in my mind right now.

So what of LSG then? She seems to have aligned herself with Daddy.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, here is where I worry about releasing location information - we don't know the order that actions are processed.

Example:
1. Local activities - bad guys act before good guys
2. Move to new area
3. Remote activities - bad guys act before good guys

So if I was to give out information on where someone started last night, I could make them a sitting duck for a bad guy kill.

I have no idea about the order of actions, just using the above as an example where the full disclosure of information provides a lot of value for the opposition.

If the group feels that the rewards outweigh the risks I'll reveal all the location information that I possess.

On the topic of location information, I do find it interesting that I saw four people leave a region where MrW lives and he was not one of them. If you figure an even distribution of people across a region, then there are probably six per region. It is possible I would not see people who stay home, but it has been indicated that MrW was on the move yesterday.

Random dice roll or something more sinister?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I don't have absolute trust in the three people I saw at the opium den, but I don't think they're good votes because I think they're not Mr. Hyde.

[Lorena]

Well, I really don't wanna spend too much time here than I need to:

Vote Mr. Wednesday

I think he's trying to backpedal after I outed him.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

My guess is that this would be considered an "ordinary villager role".

I agree. But there just seems to be more of them than there should be. So either some of the special roles have the same ability as Londoners, or we've got some folks grasping for credibility. I'm trying to figure out which.

[Mr. Wednesday]

hoops, putting a few things together, I'd guess that nobody is going to have the full picture of the comings and goings in a given area, which makes sense to me. Obviously, this will be worse in bad weather.

[Tyrith]

*is a mess all over the carpet*

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Well, I really don't wanna spend too much time here than I need to:

Vote Mr. Wednesday

I think he's trying to backpedal after I outed him.

No. I didn't think my complete movements were relevant. As is usually the case, it's not in the collective best interest for everyone to reveal everything about who they are, what they know, and what they were doing last night.