WW IL - Do Werewolves Dream of Electric Sheep? Game Over, page 36

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Pass, don't take offense to that, please.

None taken.

[Poli]

Thank goodness. I'm all about feelings.

[Poli]

Well, dear friends, I'm out for the night. I feel that I will be dead soon. I will be back to gloat, and gloat often if I am.

If I'm not dead, but some miracle, then I promise to play well within the friendly spirit of werewolf. I will even read the rules AND the previous posts as I have two days off "training" at home.

Best regards
xoxo

Ardent

[Poli]

By back, I mean, I'll be back tonight to gloat if I'm dead. Nothing like a gloating ghost, I always say.

[Poli]

Smack me upside the head. I just realized swaggs is STILL upset about the results of a game (two games ago). You know, the one where he was wrong about me. Again.

[Poli]

Before I roll out, let me say, Swaggs, I'm so super sorry if I hurt your feelings in that game and in this one.

If you're a replicant, though, you can go to hell. I mean that in a not to get you mad way.

[Poli]

And that's as sincere as an Ardent can get, folks.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I'm having flashbacks to the Survivor game.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Ok, on the AE/Swaggs thing, AE clearly dreamt that he was a tennis star, but not that he was really a star. Has Swaggs come out and said that he actually is a star? Or did he just have a dream as well?

[tanglewood]

Day 2 Vote Count

ardent enthusiast 4 - KWhit, LoneStarGirl, Swaggs, bulletsponge
bulletsponge 3 - Barkeep49, Telle, st.cronin
KWhit 2 - twothree, ardent enthusiast
Lathum 1 - AlanT
Alan T 1 - Lathum
RendeR 1 - ntndeacon

Yet to vote: Jonathan Ezarik, Chief Rum, RendeR, path12

An hour and ten minutes to the deadline.

[Barkeep49]

A reminder: name calling is almost always bad. Swearing at someone, the same. Games are better when we all avoid those things.

Best Wishes,
Barkeep49, YFWWM

[Barkeep49]

I will state, as a player, that I think it's wrong to vote for AE on attitude alone. I remain somewhat miffed about the surge against him as opposed to swaggs. I Just don't get why AE is a stronger candidate than Swaggs given the evidence against him.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Ok, on the AE/Swaggs thing, AE clearly dreamt that he was a tennis star, but not that he was really a star. Has Swaggs come out and said that he actually is a star? Or did he just have a dream as well?

My description was exactly the same as the one that AE posted.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

My description was exactly the same as the one that AE posted.

See this is what I'm talking about. It seems like in each case AE has come out first and with details and Swaggs hasn't added anything to the equation. I agree it's a bad idea for a wolf to copy another player's dream unless they didn't get dreams and were scrambling and decided it was better to risk repeating a dream than come up with some dream which would be disproved.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I will state, as a player, that I think it's wrong to vote for AE on attitude alone. I remain somewhat miffed about the surge against him as opposed to swaggs. I Just don't get why AE is a stronger candidate than Swaggs given the evidence against him.

BK, if you are referring to me, even though I am now fairly disgusted with the way AE has played (and posting a near verbatim PM from a mod is pretty out of line and against the spirit of WW, in my opinion) I think I have pretty clearly laid out why I voted for AE.

His PM was identical to mine, it appears. Although I question whether or not he got the human message on the end. If so, it was completely identical.

We are playing a game in which androids are given memories from the past. The female lead in the movie was given memories from one of the designers' daughters or nieces.

I don't feel it is a stretch to bring this under consideration, particularly in light of the fact that we have little left to go on.

Now, you can say it is suspicious of me or AE, and that is fine.

I think it would be a pretty poor play, on my part if I was a replicant, to associate myself with someone on day 1. I think it would be a huge risk, with no apparent reward, for me to come out and say I had the same dream/memory as another player when I could have just made something else up or kept quiet.

If you can think of a replicant benefit to my manner of play through the first 2 days, I'd like to hear it.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

See this is what I'm talking about. It seems like in each case AE has come out first and with details and Swaggs hasn't added anything to the equation. I agree it's a bad idea for a wolf to copy another player's dream unless they didn't get dreams and were scrambling and decided it was better to risk repeating a dream than come up with some dream which would be disproved.

Couldn't I just be one of the many players that just kept my mouth shut, then?

[Barkeep49]

Swaggs I think there's far less of a downside in this game to associating yourself with another because we don't find out about that association. So when someone dies we don't really know, one way or another, what that means, so it's less dangerous, I feel, to associate yourself with another.

[Alan T]

Unvote Lathum

Vote Bulletsponge


Same thing as yesterday. Keeping it close towards the deadline, deadline votes to occur, and people come after me tommorrow.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Swaggs I think there's far less of a downside in this game to associating yourself with another because we don't find out about that association. So when someone dies we don't really know, one way or another, what that means, so it's less dangerous, I feel, to associate yourself with another.

Don't you consider drawing attention to yourself in a game with two seers someone dangerous for a wolf? I could have stayed in the background and let everyone else chase around whatever clues seemed to pop up at this point.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Don't you consider drawing attention to yourself in a game with two seers someone dangerous for a wolf? I could have stayed in the background and let everyone else chase around whatever clues seemed to pop up at this point.

I question if we have two full fledged seers or two partials but your point is well taken. So, if I understand you correctly, you're arguing that you're a human and AE is an unwitting wolf?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

If you can think of a replicant benefit to my manner of play through the first 2 days, I'd like to hear it.

Its entirely plausible that the replicants have some reason for wanting ardent exiled.

[Chief Rum]

Long crappy day. Just got home (much later than expected) and reading through the thread right now. If anyone wants to give a mini-update, though, go for it. I might need it if I need to vote and haven't read the trhead yet.

[Passacaglia]

As a note, I like how in the last game, Alan put the PM that he would give out in the rules. I think I'm going to do that for the next game.

[path12]

Well, this won't help matters, but I think AE and bullet are both human. I'm going by what little evidence I have, and that was the voting around deadline. I thought this vote was interesting at the time, and I haven't really read anything that changes my mind.

VOTE RENDER

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, this won't help matters, but I think AE and bullet are both human. I'm going by what little evidence I have, and that was the voting around deadline. I thought this vote was interesting at the time, and I haven't really read anything that changes my mind.

VOTE RENDER

I think this is a horrible vote. I mean we have 3 people who could arguably be lynched today. Vote for one of them. Preferably bullet.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

As a note, I like how in the last game, Alan put the PM that he would give out in the rules. I think I'm going to do that for the next game.

I'm pretty much going to give the wolves an idea of what the villager PM looks like and did include the villager template to them in my last game. Obviously in this game each PM was (mostly?) unique and that alleviates the issue as well. But I agree that this is a nice balancing mechanism for the wolves.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I question if we have two full fledged seers or two partials but your point is well taken. So, if I understand you correctly, you're arguing that you're a human and AE is an unwitting wolf?

That's where my vote is.

I am, without doubt, a human.

I don't know how to be anymore clear on this next part: Unless Tanglewood sent out the exact same message to both AE and I, AE has been given my memories.

I don't know if this was skimmed over by most, but AE posted his PM in Post #546 and it was exactly the same as mine, down to the grazed knee.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that AE and I have the same memories/dreams. Everyone else can believe whatever else they want.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, this won't help matters, but I think AE and bullet are both human. I'm going by what little evidence I have, and that was the voting around deadline. I thought this vote was interesting at the time, and I haven't really read anything that changes my mind.

VOTE RENDER

I would probably rather vote Render as well, right now though with my vote on Bullet I believe its:

4 - Ardent
4 - Bullet
2 - Render
2 - Kwhit

If someone else moves over to either Kwhit or Render, I'll likely move my vote to one of them

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think this is a horrible vote. I mean we have 3 people who could arguably be lynched today. Vote for one of them. Preferably bullet.

I don't think its horrible. I'll move my vote there too if someone else does.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Its entirely plausible that the replicants have some reason for wanting ardent exiled.

Any reason to believe I would have known this on Day 1, though?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am interested in you going into details more about what you didn't like about my vote. At the time of my voting, it was a 1 vote lead for Bulletsponge. I had the option to vote for BS and make it a run away, which would mean we would lose any last minute vote switches (like we had) which mighr or might not be meaningful.

Or I had the option to vote for Ardent or Ntndeacon (both of whom had 2 votes at the time), which would have kept it at a 1 vote lead for Bulletsponge (who had his vote on someone else and could move it to tie things up as we saw he did), however in my point of view I don't think I necessarily agreed that Ardent = wolf, and while ntn was a choice, it was really a toss up between him, BS, DT and half a few other people for me.

Or I had the option to do what many did and just throw away my vote on someone else.

You can disagree with my reasoning if you want, but as both BS and DT had votes they could move to save themselves if they wanted, my vote for DT neither condemned nor saved either of them. What it did do was keep things close where others could try to save their friend if for some reason a wolf was on the line there. I don't know if we have any way to ever learn what DT's role was, but I don't feel bad about my vote at all.

Instead of just throwing my name out there grouped up with Render who had a very different type of vote (his was at the deadline, where mine was announced with almost half an hour to go and plenty of people around), his appeared to almost try to save DT, where mine was fairly neutral to either of them... Why don't you give your reasons why you didn't like the move, or what you thought was strange about it. Its not like you Chief to just name drop without thoughtful analysis behind it.

Alan, you're reading way too much into it. I never said I didn't like it. I was just undecided. It wasn't a simple vote, any more than Render's, and I wasn't willing to comment further until I had put some thought into it. But I wanted to highlight it and Render's and other votes because those sorts of votes are usually more telling than votes in a runaway or early votes when nothing has really been determined.

Unfortunately, I haven't given any thought to it all since (haven't thought about WW all day, being at work). Hopefully after catching up and reviewing whatever has transpired, I will be able to speak more definitively about it or other moves.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I don't have a solid grasp on anything going on in this game, but I do have a good feeling for AE. I think we are probably reading too much into these dreams. Remember, they are dreams, not actual memories. Would a replicant have the same dream as the human it's gotten memories from? I don't know, but I think it's a bit of a stretch. But what do I know?

Anyway, I've got to vote and time is running out, so

VOTE BULLETSPONGE

This has more to do with saving AE (since I feel good about him, which feels weird to say) than it does bulletsponge.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think this is a horrible vote. I mean we have 3 people who could arguably be lynched today. Vote for one of them. Preferably bullet.

I totally disagree. I do not vote for people I think are good. I do not see how that ever helps the village.

[Barkeep49]

Swaggs: How do we know you're not the one with the implanted memory?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Just to clarify Pass, the link is exactly what busted me. She got a PM about it with my name in it. So that vote didn't make any real difference at the time. Was just a bad coin flip that we chose to off you instead of path or hoops on that night. One of the three lucky shots that won the game for the goody-goodies last game =)

Bull crap. I was already calling for your head before you even sent in your night action that "revealed" you to LSG.

[Alan T]

Interesting that after I mentioned I would vote for render to put him up there instead of bullet, that Jonathan voted Bullet.

i just don't see the passion that Bullet has in these games when he has a "cool" role. He clearly acts much more involved and gets into it. He's pretty much been as much of a ghost this game as DT for the most part. I really don't think either of the top candidates are likely wolves at this point.

[Barkeep49]

And to answer my own post, I know the answer is we don't. So if we end up lynching ardent today don't we then have to lynch Swaggs, just to be sure?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Interesting that after I mentioned I would vote for render to put him up there instead of bullet, that Jonathan voted Bullet.

Um, I was typing my post when you posted about Render. For what it's worth, I wouldn't be against voting for Render, as long as it doesn't put AE at risk.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Interesting that after I mentioned I would vote for render to put him up there instead of bullet, that Jonathan voted Bullet.

i just don't see the passion that Bullet has in these games when he has a "cool" role. He clearly acts much more involved and gets into it. He's pretty much been as much of a ghost this game as DT for the most part. I really don't think either of the top candidates are likely wolves at this point.

Then you should follow your conscience and vote Render. WIth my beating the drum on bullet all day I'd forgotten my negative feels about Render and his suspicious last minute vote switch.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I am, without doubt, a human.

Or a replicant who thinks he's a human. Surely you have to acknowledge this possibility.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Swaggs: How do we know you're not the one with the implanted memory?

Wait, if Swaggs is a replicant with AE's memory, doesn't that make AE either Tyrell or Sebastian? And wouldn't Swaggs (and the rest of the replicants) know that? Why would Swaggs work to have AE exiled if he's needed for victory?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So yeah, if you don't need me around, go right ahead and vote for me. So far that is three people who've come out after me without a real good reason (Render, Chief Rum and Telle). I have no problem if people question my moves, but the quick toss outs of my name without any real explanation just appears to be nothing more than feelers to see if they can get someone else to bite on it.

Honestly, Alan, this was a really bad read of my post on your part. I never thought your decision was indicative of wolfishness. I'm not sure why you made this assumption. Your defensiveness now is actually more curious than your original vote. And you basically do now the same thing you accuse me of (link with the "controversial" Render).

What's really funny is that when making the vote, you yourself even said you thought it could earn you some votes today.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Then you should follow your conscience and vote Render. WIth my beating the drum on bullet all day I'd forgotten my negative feels about Render and his suspicious last minute vote switch.

Well to do so right now would likely lynch Ardent by what I am guessing the tiebreaker rules are. So I'll wait till that is not the case. I've publically stated my desire, and anyone who wants can hold me to it later because Ive gone on public stating I woudl rather vote Render, but right now I think unless someone moves off of ardent, he has the tiebreaker (unless we get 2 votes plus mine on Render or kwhit)

[st.cronin]

Alan, the trouble is that if you think that Render is a wolf, don't you have to assume that bullet is likely a wolf as well? I mean those two are connected.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Lathum is now our biggest source of unintentional humor voting immediately after someone complains about people voting for them without explanation in the last two games.

Unintentional, my ass. Gotta chuckle out of me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Honestly, Alan, this was a really bad read of my post on your part. I never thought your decision was indicative of wolfishness. I'm not sure why you made this assumption. Your defensiveness now is actually more curious than your original vote. And you basically do now the same thing you accuse me of (link with the "controversial" Render).

What's really funny is that when making the vote, you yourself even said you thought it could earn you some votes today.

Like I said several times. I don't mind people questioning my moves. But what you didn't wasn't question my moves. You name dropped and then continued on. Instead of building a case, and giving your belief of what should have been done in that case, you just say so and so is suspicious and move on. Even though Lathum was/is completely wrong, he at least tried to argue his case.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Swaggs: How do we know you're not the one with the implanted memory?

You don't and, other than a seer outing themselves, I don't think you ever will.

[Barkeep49]

So Alan you're not willing to switch to Render then after all?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

And to answer my own post, I know the answer is we don't. So if we end up lynching ardent today don't we then have to lynch Swaggs, just to be sure?

I would implore you to closely read over some of the suggestions that were given yesterday, that may have slipped under the radar, by some of the more under the radar players.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

You don't and, other than a seer outing themselves, I don't think you ever will.

So basically aren't you suggesting we lynch you tomorrow if AE ends up biting it?