Werewolf XLVI - Sun And Shadow (Game Thread) - Game Over! Cultists win!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Swaggs:
Sun Amulet - that would suggest that you could Identify someone without using a Potion of Identify. Yet Joe seemed to imply (or may have come out and said) that you did have this item. So, when you viewed me did you do it with your role or an item? It is a fairly important note in terms of whether or not you know my role and can vouch for it later if/when I reveal it.

Also, it is pretty clear what role Joe has and if he was correct about you having a potion and can clearly identify the holder of the Mask of Whispers then I would not remotely consider him for a shadow vote today. The person with the Mask communicated with me yesterday, so I can validate a statement on the holder of this item if Joe wants to reveal this information.

You are right about Joe, he also should be moved to the do not lynch today list. I have an idea as well which role he has, and have it marked on my list too. As for swaggs, if he is the role I assume based on having a sun amulet, he wouldn't know if you are shadow or not, but instead if you were an agent of the sun or not.. unless I am missing something here.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

on the train on my way in to work but I hadta hop on and see my night action results.

as I hinted at last night a little and also early in the game...today will be a very good day. you see...I began the game with the ring of shadows. I was not allowed to use it night 1, so I used it last night after our success, hoping to shorten the game.

now afaik the ring cannot lie. it is unfortunately destroyed through its use for this purpose...but in its destruction it revealed TYRITH as Shadow.

Tyrith is our 2nd Shadow gentleman.

VOTE TYRITH
VOTE PUNISHMENT

Ahhh, I knew one of the people who hopped on me without reason yesterday had to be bad, guess I was wrong about which one!

Vote Tyrith

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry...guess this will be an open and shut day without a ton of discussion of who to vote for

[hoopsguy]

If Tyrith is in fact a Shadow then I have to play my gut more often in these games

VOTE TYRITH/PUNISHMENT

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You are right about Joe, he also should be moved to the do not lynch today list. I have an idea as well which role he has, and have it marked on my list too. As for swaggs, if he is the role I assume based on having a sun amulet, he wouldn't know if you are shadow or not, but instead if you were an agent of the sun or not.. unless I am missing something here.

Alan, if I'm reading the Identify item correctly he wouldn't know if I'm Shadow either way.

Scroll of Identity - This magical parchment can be read one time, to magically learn the role of one player. This will reveal both magical and mundane roles, but not whether a person is corrupted or not. Note that in the case of the Sun spies, this will reveal their TRUE role.

It would be convenient for me if he does know that I'm not Shadow, but I don't think that can be vouched for yet. The question is whether he knows my role or not. The Warlock can vouch that they put me to sleep on Night 1, so I wasn't converting people but potentially I could have been the starting Shadow (I'm not, but putting it out there for argument's sake).

[Joe]

I would reveal who has the mask of whispers so that they may absolutely clear me, though it may be stolen. I mean, I will if necessary. But with the new info

VOTE TYRITH AND PUNISHMENT

[Lathum]

Just to confirm Daddtrotgo I was also suspicous of Tyrith so I used my second hex to put him to sleep last night and there was a no kill.

VOTE TYRITH

VOTE PUNISHMENT

[Lathum]

dola- by kill I mean shadow conversion

[Alan T]

Ok, thinking about next steps some... We know Tyrith was one of the original two shadow players. I think some important questions for him will be:

1) Do you know the other shadow player
2) Were you the one who converted Kwhit on night 1.
3) Did he have a magical role as well, or start knowing which magical role he "used to be" before becoming under the influence of the shadow.

I think #2 is important as it will either help keep our field narrow depending on what happens tonight conversion wise, and #3 is important with the thought that if they did start knowing they used to be some magical role, then the everyone reveal strategy won't work. If he didn't however start with one, and having only 1 shadow player left after him, then perhaps now is a good time with only 1 left to try to look at that strategy.

[DaddyTorgo]

and just to head off what I presume will be tyrith's defense...it is way too early in the game for me to be shadow and lie like this. all I would be doing is outing myself to no end.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, if I'm reading the Identify item correctly he wouldn't know if I'm Shadow either way.



It would be convenient for me if he does know that I'm not Shadow, but I don't think that can be vouched for yet. The question is whether he knows my role or not. The Warlock can vouch that they put me to sleep on Night 1, so I wasn't converting people but potentially I could have been the starting Shadow (I'm not, but putting it out there for argument's sake).

Right, I'm on the same page here. I think you are saying the same thing I said earlier.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Just to confirm Daddtrotgo I was also suspicous of Tyrith so I used my second hex to put him to sleep last night and there was a no kill.

VOTE TYRITH

VOTE PUNISHMENT

Just for the record, Swaggs claims there was a conversion attempt last night and he blocked it due to his role. Not saying you didn't sleep Tyrith, just saying that it appears he wasn't the one doing the converting last night.

[Alan T]

Swaggs, you don't by chance have any info on who tried to convert you last night? Or does anyone else have that type of information? If Tyrith is #2, and the person who tried to convert Swaggs last night is #3, it would be really handy if we had that information.

Also, going with this, I'll clear Barkeep of being influenced by the shadow at this point too. If Lathum slept Tyrith, and the other shadow did the conversion attempt on Swaggs last night, Barkeep couldn't have been that person. I made sure of that last night, so he is also clear now.

[DaddyTorgo]

damm lathum...if only it had led me to the oher shadow then.

I think tonight we need to be very crafty but we could very well win...if we guard as many people as possible (in rooms or by hiding) and thus minimize those who could possibly be converted to those who might have some protection from it. if that makes sense. bbiab

[Alan T]

So people that I know aren't the other original shadow thats left:

4) Joe
5) Swaggs
6) Barkeep49
8) Lathum
10) Schmidty
17) Alan T

Couldn't have done night 1 conversion, but not cleared:
12) hoopsguy

People not cleared, but assume to be good based on action:
2) BrianD
13) DaddyTorgo

(The caveat here is that either of these could have come out with a story to out the other shadow to gain trust, but this early in the game that would be risky and I feel some trust is earned as both were the first to point the finger at a shadow person)

That leaves the following list for the other original shadow player. Any way anyone can vouch for any of these people to narrow down the list?

1) Mustang
3) ntndeacon
9) Chief Rum
11) Mr. Wednesday
16) Path12
18) SnDvls

[Alan T]

Dola and if Tyrith says after being cleansed that he did not do the night 1 conversion of kwhit, that also clears Hoops on the list above.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Just for the record, Swaggs claims there was a conversion attempt last night and he blocked it due to his role. Not saying you didn't sleep Tyrith, just saying that it appears he wasn't the one doing the converting last night.

what the hell does one have to do with the other?

Of course he wasn't doing the converting since I put him to sleep. IT was obviously the other one attempting the conversion, why are you even remotly questioning me?

[Lathum]

dola- Would DT have been able to use the item and convert last night?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

what the hell does one have to do with the other?

Of course he wasn't doing the converting since I put him to sleep. IT was obviously the other one attempting the conversion, why are you even remotly questioning me?

Lathum, take a deep breath and go back and reread what I said.

I'm not questioning you, I was saying exactly what you just said. I was making sure you saw that Swaggs say he blocked an attempt too. Your post made me think you missed that since you seemed to indicate no conversion was due to sleeping tyrith, but there was an attempt last night from the other shadow player.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola- Would DT have been able to use the item and convert last night?

Not sure, I haven't had any items the entire game, so kind of fuzzy on how they work. I'll check back through the rules to see if it says one way or another. I still think its a bit early for either brian or DT to have given up the other shadow player if they were the only other shadow left. I feel that they both earn at least some level of trust due to outing shadows.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Just for the record, Swaggs claims there was a conversion attempt last night and he blocked it due to his role. Not saying you didn't sleep Tyrith, just saying that it appears he wasn't the one doing the converting last night.

your choice of words is very poor IMO. It sounds like you are questioning me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Actions available to all:

You can choose to do one of these three actions during the night, INSTEAD OF the night action given to you by your role. The only exceptions are that once per game each player can perform one of these actions in addition to another action, (ex. magical role + dose, or search + steal) and you can always dose yourself in addition to another action. (see below) All of these actions have a chance of you being seen by someone.

Note that a few roles have daytime actions or no nighttime actions (Signifier, Sorceror) and so they can take one of these actions each night.

The rules only talk about actions such as magical role vs dose, search + steal. I'm not sure if the same rules apply to other items that apply to using potions. If so, it says there is an exception of once per game a player can use an action in addition to their role. So I am guessing technically its possible.. but why would a shadow player have been given the ring of shadows, and I still don't feel he would have outed his teammate leaving him the only one left this early in the game.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

your choice of words is very poor IMO. It sounds like you are questioning me.

My wording was actually to try to prevent someone from jumping on me thinking I was placing doubt in you I was saying that I was NOT indicating you were lying at all.

[Lathum]

LOL, tyrith is in texas with a central time zone. IT is always nice to wake up and find out your a goner

[hoopsguy]

On the way out the door, but I believe this would come into play in terms of using an item and converting:

You can choose to do one of these three actions during the night, INSTEAD OF the night action given to you by your role. The only exceptions are that once per game each player can perform one of these actions in addition to another action, (ex. magical role + dose, or search + steal) and you can always dose yourself in addition to another action. (see below) All of these actions have a chance of you being seen by someone.

Now, I think it is pretty unlikely that someone would both use their item to bust a Shadow while creating a Shadow on Night 2 after losing a Shadow during Day 2. But if I'm reading correctly a Shadow can convert and use an item.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

On the way out the door, but I believe this would come into play in terms of using an item and converting:



Now, I think it is pretty unlikely that someone would both use their item to bust a Shadow while creating a Shadow on Night 2 after losing a Shadow during Day 2. But if I'm reading correctly a Shadow can convert and use an item.

Yeah, thats what I was getting at in my post above. I think we're probably best off trying to see who can vouch for the people in this list:

1) Mustang
3) ntndeacon
9) Chief Rum
11) Mr. Wednesday
16) Path12
18) SnDvls

[DaddyTorgo]

i wasn't converted though. i can tell you that. and since i did just deliver us a shadow, i think that ought to buy me some % of trust in that.

think about it this way...if i was converted i could have used the ring to find out tyrith was shadow, but why would i then come out and post as such?

my posting that he was shadow vouches for the fact i wasn't converted.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So people that I know aren't the other original shadow thats left:

4) Joe
5) Swaggs
6) Barkeep49
8) Lathum
10) Schmidty
17) Alan T

Couldn't have done night 1 conversion, but not cleared:
12) hoopsguy

People not cleared, but assume to be good based on action:
2) BrianD
13) DaddyTorgo

(The caveat here is that either of these could have come out with a story to out the other shadow to gain trust, but this early in the game that would be risky and I feel some trust is earned as both were the first to point the finger at a shadow person)

That leaves the following list for the other original shadow player. Any way anyone can vouch for any of these people to narrow down the list?

1) Mustang
3) ntndeacon
9) Chief Rum
11) Mr. Wednesday
16) Path12
18) SnDvls

I might be able to help there. If I understand the rules correctly, that the shadow has lost thier ability to use thier magical role. Then I can vouch for Path. I have seen enough to know his role and know it is being used.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i wasn't converted though. i can tell you that. and since i did just deliver us a shadow, i think that ought to buy me some % of trust in that.

think about it this way...if i was converted i could have used the ring to find out tyrith was shadow, but why would i then come out and post as such?

my posting that he was shadow vouches for the fact i wasn't converted.

There is no way you could have been converted based on the numbers. Tyrith is one of the original 2 shadow, and the other person remaining is one of the original 2 shadows.

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I might be able to help there. If I understand the rules correctly, that the shadow has lost thier ability to use thier magical role. Then I can vouch for Path. I have seen enough to know his role and know it is being used.

That is my understanding as well. Its one of the questions that I have listed for Tyrith after he is cleansed, if they don't have magical roles this helps us find the last one alot. So if you have evidence of Path using his role and vouch for him, then that narrows our list further to 5 people.

[ntndeacon]

Vote Tyrith
Vote punishment

[Lathum]

I think it is important to work together today/ tonight and spread out our resources.

If the signifier can select one of the suspected players and clear him I can select a differtent player to put to sleep tonight

[Alan T]

Lathum, I have an idea I'd like to run by you. I have a role similar to yours, but not exactly the same. I can inhibit someone's role at night time as well. If we can narrow down the list to 1-2 people, can we spread out who we're going to block, so we don't end up blocking the same person tonight? Right now the list looks like:

1) Mustang
3) ntndeacon
9) Chief Rum
11) Mr. Wednesday
18) SnDvls

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think it is important to work together today/ tonight and spread out our resources.

If the signifier can select one of the suspected players and clear him I can select a differtent player to put to sleep tonight

Looks like you are on the same page as me. I've hinted enough as it is. You all probably already know that I am the Theurgist and can pick one person to now allow them to use any magical abilities. (They can still use items/search/steal/etc).

[Barkeep49]

Wow. I like where we're at. We know that we only have two bad guys left and one way or another we're going to have found another by the end of tonight. DT, what room did you do this in?

Vote Tyrith
Vote Punishment

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Lathum, I have an idea I'd like to run by you. I have a role similar to yours, but not exactly the same. I can inhibit someone's role at night time as well. If we can narrow down the list to 1-2 people, can we spread out who we're going to block, so we don't end up blocking the same person tonight? Right now the list looks like:

1) Mustang
3) ntndeacon
9) Chief Rum
11) Mr. Wednesday
18) SnDvls

the only peoble I see is lets say I sleep person A and you sleep person B and there is no conversion then who do we gun for but it can jack our odds up pretty good

[Lathum]

dola- I slept in the kitchen last night if it matters

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Lathum, I have an idea I'd like to run by you. I have a role similar to yours, but not exactly the same. I can inhibit someone's role at night time as well. If we can narrow down the list to 1-2 people, can we spread out who we're going to block, so we don't end up blocking the same person tonight? Right now the list looks like:

1) Mustang
3) ntndeacon
9) Chief Rum
11) Mr. Wednesday
18) SnDvls

I'll take CR. Has nothing to do with my role, but I have something which can help.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'll take CR. Has nothing to do with my role, but I have something which can help.

help at night or during the day?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

the only peoble I see is lets say I sleep person A and you sleep person B and there is no conversion then who do we gun for but it can jack our odds up pretty good

Well my hopes would be that people with roles that can identify shadow could use the time we buy them to find our last target. I'm still hoping that today people will be able to narrow down that list further by vouching for folks on there.

[Alan T]

dola,

I guess what I am saying is at this point a conversion tonight would set us back to day 1. So its very important we go all out and try to narrow down as much as we can today and prevent conversions tonight

[KWhit]

Vote Tyrith
Vote Punishment

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

help at night or during the day?

Night action. Sorry didn't make that clear.

[Lathum]

If Barkeep takes Chiefrum, I can put sndvls to sleep

[Lathum]

I have a feeling it may be quiet around here today

[SnDvls]

vote tyrith
vote punishment

hope this info helps, but I made a potion of alertness on night 1 and drank it last night. I was in the Chamber of rest (2nd night I was there) and with me was Alan (I did get some info that he was doing something) and Mr. W was in there as well. Mr. W did leave during the night.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

vote tyrith
vote punishment

hope this info helps, but I made a potion of alertness on night 1 and drank it last night. I was in the Chamber of rest (2nd night I was there) and with me was Alan (I did get some info that he was doing something) and Mr. W was in there as well. Mr. W did leave during the night.

So you are claiming to be the Alchemist right?

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So you are claiming to be the Alchemist right?

yup

[Mustang]

Vote Tyrith

Vote Punishment

If Tyrith is a Shadow that leaves 1 left, I have a message out to Peregrine about my role before I reveal with some thoughts.




Does the Shadow blood react to heat? Maybe we could all just cut our thumbs and drain the blood into a petri dish and test it.

[Alan T]

1) Mustang
3) ntndeacon
9) Chief Rum
11) Mr. Wednesday - Sndvls states he left to do -something- last night.
16) Path12 - Ntndeacon vouches for
18) SnDvls - Claims to be alchemist

[BrianD]

Vote Tryith/Punishment

As hard as we all thought this game would be, it looks like we have things well in hand. I wonder what the shadow have up their sleeves to turn the tables.