OT: A Song of Ice and Fire Series (spoilers inside)

[Schmidty]

Edit - I was a drunken ass

[Schmidty]

Same as my last post.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Quite honestly, I'm pretty much done with the series after that spoiler. Fucking bullshit.

they're not like 20 page scenes, and they're not really integral to the characters - you could pretty much just skip over that total of like...1 page

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I've never heard of this dislike for Arya. I always thought that she was one of the POV's people liked the most. I know there's a ton of hate out there for Sansa, Catelyn, and Cersei... But Arya? Huh.

I've always enjoyed Arya's chapters, even in Feast where she starts to veer off a bit from what's going on in Westeros...

Spoiler

But Martin has been setting up the whole Arya as "Faceless Man" thing for a while, even before she met Jaqen Hagar. Her constant adoption of different identities (Arry, Weasle, Arya, Salty, etc.) and fascination with killing people have constant themes for the character. Her time with the Hound was classic.

I think the biggest problem facing Martin (and I don't think this is unique to Arya really) is how to make her relevant. Sure, making her a "Faceless Man" is a super cool idea, but to make it at all realistic it would take years and years.

I think he's in a similar boat with Tyrion.

Spoiler

Tyrion is super clever, but, really, the only thing that made him what he was was beinng a Lannister, which, for all intents and purposes, he's not anymore.

Martin's written himself into quite a few corners it seems.

I can't really say that I hate any of the POV characters. But I found Arya's to be the least enjoyable or enticing. I'm not a big fan of Dany's either. I really liked Jon Snow, Tyrion, Jaime and Sansa. Although, in speaking with friends about the books, most of them seem to enjoy the Arya story arc. I guess, to each his/her own.

Two lesser characters I really like are Sandor Clegane and the Viper. I loved the fight between the Viper and Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Thanks for ruining the fact that Cersei and Dany do that stuff. Fuck.

I'm pretty pissed you didn't spoiler that. Ass.

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Quite honestly, I'm pretty much done with the series after that spoiler. Fucking bullshit.

Good.

Mission Accomplished. Fuck face.

You want a spoiler? I'll give you a spoiler.

Spoiler

Suck it. Bitch.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Quite honestly, I'm pretty much done with the series after that spoiler. Fucking bullshit.

LOL! Seriously? I mean really, how silly is this. Why don't you save your spoiler outrage for something that actually, you know... affects the plot in some way.

[Fidatelo]

I've never been a huge fan of the Dany POVs, and Sansa's were terrible until the Littlefinger plotline (remember, there are like 2-3 books of her before then).

Arya has always been fun for me, I like Bran, and of course Tyrion is my absolute favorite. Jon's stuff is good too. I've never really liked the Greyjoy stuff at all, it's probably my least favorite.

[sachmo71]

I like Sansa a lot. She's one of the more interesting characters in the story, because her character is transforming in ways that equal or surpass even Dany's. The sweet, beautiful princess is learning what it takes to survive, and she will be more dangerous for it. She will be the anti-Cersi, and their fight will be the stuff of legend.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Sansa's were terrible until the Littlefinger plotline (remember, there are like 2-3 books of her before then).

I've never really liked the Greyjoy stuff at all, it's probably my least favorite.

good points here. I had forgotten about the Greyjoy plotlines (haha last night in my Westeros: Total War game I wiped out like all the Greyjoy's. Killed the Lord Reaper (and his successor) about 4x over and beseiged their capital - not Pyke b/c I had already captured that - one of their mainland cities - while he was inside and captured it. They then bent the knee to Robb Stark as vassals - they have 1 city left and it's tiny lil Ten Towers).

Anyways - Littlefinger is such a delight to read. Such a Machiavellian schemer! And I second the comment about Sansa being a character who has had a huge arc in terms of growth - I think I made a comment along those lines earlier. And it's really great to see. Because as a little brat she annoyed me, but she's growing into as someone said, the anti-Cersi.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

LOL! Seriously? I mean really, how silly is this. Why don't you save your spoiler outrage for something that actually, you know... affects the plot in some way.

Sorry. I had a few drinks for the first time in months, and I am not a happy drunk.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Sorry. I had a few drinks for the first time in months, and I am not a happy drunk.

It's ok. I didn't take anything you said seriously as should be evident by my response.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I like Sansa a lot. She's one of the more interesting characters in the story, because her character is transforming in ways that equal or surpass even Dany's. The sweet, beautiful princess is learning what it takes to survive, and she will be more dangerous for it. She will be the anti-Cersi, and their fight will be the stuff of legend.

That is exactly what I thought. I was kind of hoping that she comes full circle and is the big event in the end. Whatever that may be. Martin did a great job of slowly bringing her along.

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I've never been a huge fan of the Dany POVs, and Sansa's were terrible until the Littlefinger plotline (remember, there are like 2-3 books of her before then).

Arya has always been fun for me, I like Bran, and of course Tyrion is my absolute favorite. Jon's stuff is good too. I've never really liked the Greyjoy stuff at all, it's probably my least favorite.

Not a big fan of the Greyjoy's either. Although I really liked the storyline when Theon Greyjoy made his move. It was a great read.

[Schmidty]

I know I asked before:

Spoiler

but does ANYTHING good happen EVER in this series? Do they kill off every character I care about? I just read that Bran and Rickon were murdered by Greyjoy (my least favorite character anyway), and I just don't feel like reading this anymore. I know it's supposed to be "realistic and shocking", but there comes a point where it gets so depressing, that the book becomes tedious and just not fun anymore. This series has so much potential, but it's losing me fast, especially if I know that nothing ever looks up eventually.

[Honolulu_Blue]

In response to your question, Schmidty...

Where you are at is a bit of a low point, but it gets worse in that regard. Much, much worse... (Though I believe George RR is really beginning to regret some of those decisions, if that makes you feel any better.)

I wont say anything more than that.

It's too bad that the downers are, well, getting you down. I get frustrated many times at the series for all sorts of things, but it never really stopped me from loving the books or enjoying them.

I'm currently listening to my 4th go around in "Clash of Kings" and still love it.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

In response to your question, Schmidty...

Where you are at is a bit of a low point, but it gets worse in that regard. Much, much worse... (Though I believe George RR is really beginning to regret some of those decisions, if that makes you feel any better.)

Yeah, I think I'll finish the rest of this book, and find a different series to read. When there aren't any characters you care about anymore (other than Jon, Arya and Tyrion - sort of), what's the point of reading the book?

In fact, I'll ask for a spoiler -

Spoiler

Does Arya get killed off eventually? Because even if I were to start reading the next book, I definitely wouldn't if I knew my favorite character dies eventually. So tell me please

[flere-imsaho]

1. I think you're reading some misleading or possibly even untrue spoilers.

2. "Good" is a matter of opinion. There are certainly some cathartic moments amongst the chaos that I enjoyed.

I view it this way: ASoIaF is where LoTR was just after Moria: things are generally in the crapper and hopeless. There's a lot more to go, and things will only begin to look up incrementally, but the payoff will be really good.

Unless Martin dies, of course.

[terpkristin]

Schmidty...

Spoiler

As of the end of the 4th book, she's still around

[Honolulu_Blue]

Schmidty:

Spoiler

So far, Arya is still alive and well (for the most part). She actually has some awesome scenes in the 3rd book and is taken in a very interesting (though very much telegraphed) direction in book 4.

There are still a ton of characters I care about and am interested. In fact, I wont give anything away, but the unbelievable fact of who (in my opinion) is one of coolest and most interesting character in books 3 and 4 is probably one of Martin's greatest achievements.

In addition to still liking many of the characters (including minor ones), I love all the politics, plots, schemes, battles, history, etc.

[flere-imsaho]

If you're thinking of stopping, I'd just stop, and not bother finishing your current book, since each book ends depressingly. If the remaining books end on better notes we'll let you know so you can pick them up again.

Spoiler

As of the latest published book, Arya isn't dead, and neither are Bran nor Rickon. Plus, some people who appeared to be dead really aren't.

One technique for coping that may work better: instead of rooting for the good guys to come through (the "typical" reaction to fantasy stories), root for the bad guys to get their comeuppance (or just to die, horribly).

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

1. I think you're reading some misleading or possibly even untrue spoilers.

2. "Good" is a matter of opinion. There are certainly some cathartic moments amongst the chaos that I enjoyed.

I view it this way: ASoIaF is where LoTR was just after Moria: things are generally in the crapper and hopeless. There's a lot more to go, and things will only begin to look up incrementally, but the payoff will be really good.

Unless Martin dies, of course.

Schmidty, this spoiler has something you may not want to read before you finish.

Spoiler

I don't think he's reading spoilers. There is a point in the book where you think Bran and Rickon are dead, but later it turns out they are not.

[Schmidty]

Thanks for letting me know. I realize I'm being sort of whiny and babyish, but I just put so much into characters when I read books. I realize everything can't always be perfect in a novel or there would be no point to a story, but I like to see some light.

Meh, I'll probably still read them slowly while I;m reading other books.

[DaddyTorgo]

i agree with flere - don't root for particular good guys. just root for the bad folks to get what's coming to them.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, but some bad folks became "good" guys too .

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeah, but some bad folks became "good" guys too .

Spoiler

Tyrion I hope. Or hell, maybe even the Dog.

[ISiddiqui]

Oh man, keep reading. I want to see your reaction .

edit: Oh, and when was Tyrion ever bad? Aside from being associated with a crappy family?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Tyrion a bad guy?

I know it's sort of initially set up as a Starks/North (good) vs. Lannisters/South (evil), but the beauty of the world is that, for the most part, it's all shades of grey and matter of perspective.

There are a few pretty unreemable monsters (i.e., Gregor Clegane, Vargo Hoat, Amory Lorch, etc.), but most characters are more nuianced than that.

I've always considered Tyrion to be a "good" guy. He just happens to have an incredible asshole for a father, an arrogant prick for a brother, and an insane woman for a sister. Can't pick your family.

[Schmidty]

I love Tyrion, but he's pretty loyal to that fucked up family (not the people necessarily), so it makes him a gray figure for me. But he's still a character I love reading about. As an aside, one of my best friends back in the late 90's, early '00's before we lost touch a bit was a dwarf, so I always picture him as Tyrion. It's weird.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't think Tyrion's really a bad guy. I think you have to admit that he is setup at least initially as somewhat of a bad guy, but he certainly has his more redemptive moments. He's just been cursed by being allied with a power-hungry father and an incestuous brother/sister. And like most of us, he feels a strong degree of loyalty to that family. It's almost like he hopes that he can finally win his father's love/respect if he is the family's "fixer" for long enough.

[flere-imsaho]

If you like Tyrion as a character, then I would definitely recommend to keep on reading.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

but he's pretty loyal to that fucked up family

This could be a subtitle for the whole series. And I mean that in a good way!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

It's almost like he hopes that he can finally win his father's love/respect if he is the family's "fixer" for long enough.

Well..

Spoiler

until he kills him

[JeeberD]

Man, now I want to give the series a second reading as soon as I'm done with my current book. Thanks a lot, y'all...

[terpkristin]

So, um, I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned here, from GRRM's "Not A Blog" LiveJournal:

Originally Posted by GRRM

At last it can be told.

The news has finally been made public, so I'm finally free to whoop and holler and share the great news -- the HBO pilot of A GAME OF THRONES will start filming in October, in Northern Ireland. The announcement was made in Belfast. Here you go:

http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news/news-ofmdfm/news-ofmdfm-210409-hbo-to-film.htm

Yes, I'm thrilled. Ireland should be a great place to film. And the facility we'll be using, the Paint Hall, is amazing as well:

http://www.northernirelandscreen.co.uk/page.asp?id=211

Before it was a film studio, the Paint Hall was part of Belfast's famous Harland & Wolff Shipyards, where the TITANIC and many other ships were constructed. The facility is pretty titanic as well. Of course, all of us connected with A GAME OF THRONES are hoping we'll fare somewhat better on our own maiden voyage.

Yes, Parris and I will be going over to Ireland this fall to see at least part of the filming. Not for the whole shoot, alas, I don't have time for that... but we have to be there for at least part of it. Maybe we'll see some of you in a Belfast pub.

There's lots of other exciting news on the pilot as well, but nothing I can share. Sorry, lips are sealed. You'll have to wait for Mr. Benioff and Mr. Weiss... and HBO.

Looks like it's a LOT closer to happening than I ever thought it'd get. Pretty nifty!!!

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

cool news!

[MrBug708]

Dont we have a ASOIAF hbo series thread around here?

[SirFozzie]

Speaking of ASOIAF.. anyone play the RPG? Maybe we should get a FOFC game going some time.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Dont we have a ASOIAF hbo series thread around here?

I think we do but it was a lot easier to find this one that had been bumped recently.

/tk

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Speaking of ASOIAF.. anyone play the RPG? Maybe we should get a FOFC game going some time.

I had interest in the RPG but never picked up the stuff because I had nobody to play with. A FOFC game could be quite fun.

/tk

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Speaking of ASOIAF.. anyone play the RPG? Maybe we should get a FOFC game going some time.

I bought the new one a few weeks ago. I actually have the old one too. I haven't really had a chance to read throught it or anything.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Speaking of ASOIAF.. anyone play the RPG? Maybe we should get a FOFC game going some time.

I was keeping an eye on this one: A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying: Ours is the Fury!

are there others???

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I was keeping an eye on this one: A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying: Ours is the Fury!

are there others???

There was one released a few years back, but the company went out of business, so they moved the rights to Green Ronin.

The main rule book was just released last month.

[DaddyTorgo]

*nods* so that is what we're talking about - there's not others out there?

if so - hells yeah I'm down for a FOFC-game. Hella down. Was planning on picking it up anyways.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Looks like it's a LOT closer to happening than I ever thought it'd get. Pretty nifty!!!

/tk

That is very cool. I didn't really give it much of a shot at all. There is a website (the name escapes me at the moment) that tracks this stuff pretty closely. It's dedicated the (potential) HBO series.

They actually had a link to the PDF of the pilot episode. It runs from the begining of the book to the "The things I do for love" line. It includes the Dany stuff as well.

It was pretty interesting, except for one added scene that was kind of silly. They had this scene between Ned and Jamie during the feast in Winterfell that basically boils down to a machismo pissing match between the "two greatest warriors" in Westeros. It fit Jamie fine, but it seemed so out of character for Ned that it felt off.

Still, I am pretty excited by the prospect of the series. I'd love to see it in action.

[Fidatelo]

How would an FOFC RPG thing work? I'd be totally down assuming the logistics are workable.

[JAG]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have the board game? I received it as a gift a month or two ago, but hadn't had a chance to delve into the rules much less play it.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

How would an FOFC RPG thing work? I'd be totally down assuming the logistics are workable.

Easiest way is IRC.

[Fidatelo]

Oh so it would be a real-time thing. I'm gonna have to bow out. I was thinking maybe it would happen via email or something.

[DaddyTorgo]

Maybe it could be done at a slower pace that way - idk

As far the boardgame - don't have it, but want it!

[flere-imsaho]

So HBO's going to film a miniseries based on a book that basically ends on a cliffhanger, with the books that resolve the questions posed in the first book not even written? Really?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

So HBO's going to film a miniseries based on a book that basically ends on a cliffhanger, with the books that resolve the questions posed in the first book not even written? Really?

I figure it's going to take Martin at least 7-8 years to finish up the series (figure 4-5 years for the next book, 3-4 years for the last one). If HBO puts out a book's worth of episodes a year, they will be waiting for the last book to finish before doing the final season.

Granted there are a lot of assumptions here.