WW: Scooby Doo and the Horrible Halloween Party of Doom! Game over - Monsters win!!

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It does to me.

If they are good they don't know the allegiance of Abe or Telle, but if Abe is good the wolves know both Telle and abe are good so there is no point in risking a late move to save Abe and move to Telle.

I had to read that about 3 times to completely follow that. God I need more coffee.

But I do see your point.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

For what it's worth, and hopefully to generate some discussion.

NTN and RA's oddities at the end of the vote are the pair who've pinged my radar. Honestly, it takes a smarter man than me to glean a ton of useful information from that last minute cluster-you-know-what, so I'm tending to question the ones who were just, in my mind, out in left field. Neither ntn nor raider's explanations of their votes were particularly exciting.

Of course, to play my own devil's advocate, it almost seems like too silly of play for the wolves to *not* sit in with the masses on that vote, but it's what I have to go on.

You mean straight forward discussion of your thought processes for all of your votes and revotes isn't exciting? I tend to think of RA's vote on me as retaliation for the first non football vote on him. I may be reading more into that that I should, but that was my thoughts there.

[Coffee Warlord]

I think the timing of both your votes were weird. We were well past the 'just throw a vote on some random person' stage at that point.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

or have two man race with two other participants,

Hoops, who would your two candidates of choice be in such a scenario?

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I think the timing of both your votes were weird. We were well past the 'just throw a vote on some random person' stage at that point.

I've got +1 here. The other thing I might ask about is the delay between J23's unvote and his eventual vote which came after deadline if I remember the order correctly.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by J23

unvote PurdueBrad

Originally Posted by J23

Vote Telle

Unvote is post 324, new vote is 390.

ntn had a separation as well, unvoting and then introducing KWhit later.

[PurdueBrad]

Schmidty, need you to answer a quick question: Post 387, at 8 pm, Coffee Warlord unvotes and votes, 8 pm (two posts later) you call deadline, and then at 8 pm J23 votes. With the 8 pm deadline, did CoffeeWarlord's vote count? If so, then did J23's? OR is it actually an 8:01 deadline so J23 and CW both count. Just trying to establish what the timing restriction is.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I think the timing of both your votes were weird. We were well past the 'just throw a vote on some random person' stage at that point.

Well I disagree with the RA vote. that was about lunchtime for that vote. Still plenty early then. and that was on at least someone who had a vote. Even if that vote was Football derived. As for the Kwhit vote. I can see that it looks random now. I just missed the post where the person who had earlier voted for him had changed their vote. So Kwhit seemed the best candidate that wasn't Abe or Danny. I think Telle only had one at that point as well, and I was trying to cut her a little slack.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Unvote is post 324, new vote is 390.

ntn had a separation as well, unvoting and then introducing KWhit later.

it was a reintroducing to be accurate.

[PurdueBrad]

That is true ntn, my bad on the wording.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Karma is a word that I'm not allowed to use in this thread. I thought that Jackal and EF would find this especially fitting. My first Be a Pro in NHL 10, drafted by the Flyers at 16 overall. Who was drafting 17? Yeah, the 'Guins. GUH!

Catching up on the thread, but had to give a thumbs up for this.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

To elaborate:

He first votes RA early in the day. I know that I voted RA but I picked him because I figured that he wouldn't get any other votes and since I was going with the Raiders/Eagles angle that it wouldn't be a reason which could influence others to vote that way.

Then he changes to PB to put him 2 votes ahead of Abe.

After the PB reveal I would have expected a wolf to move off PB at some point with the rest of the group. He does but then waits and puts his vote on KWhit and then later changes to Telle when she gets closer to Abe's total. It seemed like it could be a wolf who was unsure of where to go with his vote when he first moved off PB.

If Abe is good I think we should look at RA. He made votes that put him (Abe) in danger of being lynched (specifically 318). He then made an odd ntn vote (which seemed caused by ntn's KWhit vote). On the other side, if Abe is bad I will be moving RA up quite a bit in the trust list.

ntn and RA seem to have a weird link on day one. First ntn votes RA, then RA votes ntn. After a few changes ntn makes the KWhit vote and RA goes after ntn again.


As I think this through we may have another option for day 2. If everyone else gets the same read that I am getting (I may be way off) but I see the following possibilities:

1) Abe is a wolf. If so than we should feel pretty good about RA and should look at ntn.

2) Abe is not a wolf. We then need to look at the possibility of RA and ntn being wolves (trying the play of maing one look good f the other is caught).


Both possiblities seem to point to ntn. I wouldn't be against exploring the ntn angle to be honest. It may yield the highest percentage in return.


Just early reactions but wanted to open it up to discussion.

Catching up. I voted for ntn later in the day because he was in the thread and didn't feel good about voting for Telle since she wasn't going to be in the thread.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Just to stir up some talk...

vote ntn

FYI, EF, I know you can't change your vote, but I don't think this counts without being bolded.

[J23]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Unvote is post 324, new vote is 390.

ntn had a separation as well, unvoting and then introducing KWhit later.

My seperation was going back and re-reading what had happened. I missed the deadline because I was tallying the votes (we had a lot of movement since the prior vote count). I believe I mentioned this when Schmidty asked for a vote count.

[PurdueBrad]

I may have missed that but thanks for the explanation J23.

[J23]

Also, I asked for the vote count at least once or twice leading up to it since I didn't really have a lot of time to commit to the game before deadline. When noone had given one and the deadline was looming, I tried to get it done myself, but just ran out of time.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

For what it's worth, and hopefully to generate some discussion.

NTN and RA's oddities at the end of the vote are the pair who've pinged my radar. Honestly, it takes a smarter man than me to glean a ton of useful information from that last minute cluster-you-know-what, so I'm tending to question the ones who were just, in my mind, out in left field. Neither ntn nor raider's explanations of their votes were particularly exciting.

Of course, to play my own devil's advocate, it almost seems like too silly of play for the wolves to *not* sit in with the masses on that vote, but it's what I have to go on.

I'm not sure what you mean about an "explanation of their votes were particularly exciting". Did it make sense or not?

I switched my vote because PB did his reveal as Shaggy and then vouched for Abe. That eliminated both of the options for that day. I had mentioned Telle as a possible candidate but didn't feel good about voting for her since she wasn't around to defend herself. For some reason, I must've triggered something in PB to vote for her and things went downhill from there. I had mentioned about voting for somebody who was in the thread (like ntn or you Coffee), and I believe somebody said they'd be willing to go in the ntn direction so I switched my vote. When it became apparent that ntn wasn't going to get votes and there was the question of Abe and/or PB being vulnerable, I switched to Telle.

All this being said, I still don't feel good about ntn and I'd be willing to look in that direction.

[lerriuqs]

VOTE ABE

I want to see if my vote was right yesterday or not...

[Raiders Army]

VOTE NTNDEACON

I don't get why we're going after Abe again. PB cleared himself and no one disputed him and he vouched for Abe.

[JAG]

I'm sorry I haven't been much help guys, I just haven't had time to really sit down and think through things.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

VOTE NTNDEACON

I don't get why we're going after Abe again. PB cleared himself and no one disputed him and he vouched for Abe.

So what if he "vouched for Abe"? He doesn't know anything about him. I still find the movement away from Abe on day 1 very curious and I think it's foolish to consider that anyone could possibly know for sure that he was good. I'm more inclined to lean towards EF's view of him being the cunning.

[The Jackal]

Aside from wolves, of course. They'd know if he was good.

[The Jackal]

I don't know where I'm going with my vote yet, but I don't disagree with Abe or NTN as candidates.

[J23]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

VOTE NTNDEACON

I don't get why we're going after Abe again. PB cleared himself and no one disputed him and he vouched for Abe.

PB cleared him on what he thought was a clue that Abe was a roled villager. Abe has since said it was not a clue, and that he is just a vanilla villager.

I don't think I'll vote for Abe, but wanted to make sure people are making the most informed vote they can.

[Schmidty]

Neither vote counted. Deadline is 9 pm EST, so no vote after 8:59 PM counts. Sorry for any confusion.

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Schmidty, need you to answer a quick question: Post 387, at 8 pm, Coffee Warlord unvotes and votes, 8 pm (two posts later) you call deadline, and then at 8 pm J23 votes. With the 8 pm deadline, did CoffeeWarlord's vote count? If so, then did J23's? OR is it actually an 8:01 deadline so J23 and CW both count. Just trying to establish what the timing restriction is.

[Lathum]

Chalk me up as another person who doesn't see how PB could have cleared Abe.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

FYI, EF, I know you can't change your vote, but I don't think this counts without being bolded.

Correct. That vote doesn't count. Every vote must be bolded and in all CAPS.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Hoops, who would your two candidates of choice be in such a scenario?

I'm fine with RA vs NTN, if I'm picking other candidates. The real question for me comes down to 'was Abe scanned last night?'

If so, the follow up question is 'how is that person playing it in the thread today?' I'm trying to figure out this latter part, while recognizing that it is far from a sure thing that the former happened. Heck, for all I know I was scanned last night and someone is keenly interested in seeing what I do since they know (well, almost given cunning) that I'm a villager.

Anyway, that is why I wanted to wait on acting today. I wanted to try and sniff out the seer.

If I thought that person was gunning for Abe, then I wanted to vote there and help him keep safe and sound as much as possible.

If I thought that person was not gunning for Abe, then I would want the showdown to involve two other people that don't include my perceived seer, Scooby, Shaggy, or me.

Who those two people are (as long as they are not one of the four listed above) is not hugely important; I don't feel like I have any kind of soul reads at the moment. But RA/NTN seems like an acceptable showdown if we are going to have a two man race.

If Abe is a wolf we already have the data about him in a 2-3 person race and it is high value ... we don't gain much today.

If Abe is a villager then we had all villagers in the race yesterday and there is not much to glean.

Therefore, I don't really want to see Abe in a runoff. Either we just lynch him or we look for a race between others today.

[lerriuqs]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Chalk me up as another person who doesn't see how PB could have cleared Abe.

x3 - Vouching for Abe on Day 1 is meaningless.

[ntndeacon]

Well let's ask PB what he did in regards to Abe. I don't think Iviewed it as a complete clearing. But I might be misreading things.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I'm not sure what you mean about an "explanation of their votes were particularly exciting". Did it make sense or not?

Translation: I thought the explanations both of you offered were kind of weak. At the point where you both voted, it was going Abe or Telle (or PB maybe). I take a little issue with throwing your vote away on a meaningless candidate, and don't feel it was adequately explained why you didn't choose a side. Right or wrong, I'd prefer people make their votes matter when possible.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by J23

PB cleared him on what he thought was a clue that Abe was a roled villager. Abe has since said it was not a clue, and that he is just a vanilla villager.

I don't think I'll vote for Abe, but wanted to make sure people are making the most informed vote they can.

Ah. Thanks for jogging the memory without me going back through the thread. I guess the question is that when PB found out he was wrong, why not go for Abe at that point? I mean, obviously if Abe were a wolf then he couldn't claim to be a role since the real role would discredit his claims. The best play then would be to claim to be a vanilla villager.

In that case I can understand wanting to lynch Abe or not.

[Coffee Warlord]

Of course, apparently my vote didn't even count, so I'm even more useless.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Translation: I thought the explanations both of you offered were kind of weak. At the point where you both voted, it was going Abe or Telle (or PB maybe). I take a little issue with throwing your vote away on a meaningless candidate, and don't feel it was adequately explained why you didn't choose a side. Right or wrong, I'd prefer people make their votes matter when possible.

When are you talking about exactly? When I initially voted for ntn, when it was down to Abe or PB, or when it was Abe, Telle, or PB? I thought I explained myself well in the beginning and the end.

[Coffee Warlord]

Poking back through the thread now to make sure I'm not insane.

[Raiders Army]

I think you were talking about when it was down to Abe or PB and I said I was going to leave my vote on ntn for the time being. I would agree that it was pretty weak.

[Raiders Army]

Dola, but I thought my rationale in the beginning (vote on ntn) and the end (vote on ntn and Telle) was okay.

[Coffee Warlord]

As they say in legalese: Objection withdrawn. I missed a bit of your vote movement, and looking back, I have less problem with it than I initially did. Still feel like the move BACK to ntn was a bit out of the blue, but aside from that, I have far less issues than I thought I did.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If Abe is a wolf we already have the data about him in a 2-3 person race and it is high value ... we don't gain much today.

If Abe is a villager then we had all villagers in the race yesterday and there is not much to glean.

Therefore, I don't really want to see Abe in a runoff. Either we just lynch him or we look for a race between others today.

There's one thing I don't follow here. If Abe is a villager and we all pile on to lynch him, doesn't that completely waste the day's voting? (and show that we may not be able to take a lot from day 1) Whereas if Abe is a villager, ends up getting lynched in a close race, and we have a run-off with an unknown who may be a wolf, wouldn't that at least be better for future days?

I don't understand the idea of piling on Abe. The fact is we don't know for sure if he is a wolf or villager. In the event that he ends up being a villager and gets lynched, I would rather at least have a chance to take something from the voting today.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

UNVOTE ABE SARGENT
VOTE TELLE

I don't like it and would rather go for someone who's around...like maybe ntndeacon.

Originally Posted by Danny

I'd switch to NTN.

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Or Coffee.

The second quote is the one that caused me to go back to ntn. I added the third quote for your amusement.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

The second quote is the one that caused me to go back to ntn. I added the third quote for your amusement.

Since I don't often get the chance to use this line in anything resembling context....

We Are Not Amused.

[J23]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Well let's ask PB what he did in regards to Abe. I don't think Iviewed it as a complete clearing. But I might be misreading things.

In case you missed the discussion on night one:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

I read Abe as good and then read a step further that he was quite possibly Velma (proved to be wrong) but I held the post I used to garner that back so that I didn't broadcast it in case it was true.

And I posted this earlier today as my recap:

Originally Posted by J23

PB cleared him on what he thought was a clue that Abe was a roled villager. Abe has since said it was not a clue, and that he is just a vanilla villager.

Asleep at the wheel today ntn?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by JAG

There's one thing I don't follow here. If Abe is a villager and we all pile on to lynch him, doesn't that completely waste the day's voting? (and show that we may not be able to take a lot from day 1) Whereas if Abe is a villager, ends up getting lynched in a close race, and we have a run-off with an unknown who may be a wolf, wouldn't that at least be better for future days?

I don't understand the idea of piling on Abe. The fact is we don't know for sure if he is a wolf or villager. In the event that he ends up being a villager and gets lynched, I would rather at least have a chance to take something from the voting today.

My point here is that if I'm voting Abe it is not with the idea of having him in a runoff, apply pressure, see what we learn, or any other secondary motives that are part of putting votes on a candidate. It would be to try my hardest to get him lynched today because I'm fairly certain that we would be bagging a wolf.

If the idea behind a vote is any of those secondary reasons listed above, then I think there is more value in looking at two new candidates.

[JAG]

Ok, thanks for the clarification hoops.

I looked at the flow of voting from day 1 (thanks Scooby). Unless you want to assume Abe and PB are both wolves together (in which case we did a great job on day 1 picking candidates), the vote was 8-4 Abe-PB on D1 when PB and Danny (two villagers, assuming PB is truthful) started the run on Telle to finish off the day and save Abe.

At this point I'm operating under the assumption PB is really Shaggy because if not, I would think the real one would've come out since he already caught a wolf for us. If it had been an unknown / uncleared person who started the drive to save Abe, I would be much more interested in lynching Abe, but since it was two villagers who made that move, I am going to assume Abe is ok barring further information.

Thus my vote will go elsewhere today, again barring anything further coming to light.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by JAG

Ok, thanks for the clarification hoops.

I looked at the flow of voting from day 1 (thanks Scooby). Unless you want to assume Abe and PB are both wolves together (in which case we did a great job on day 1 picking candidates), the vote was 8-4 Abe-PB on D1 when PB and Danny (two villagers, assuming PB is truthful) started the run on Telle to finish off the day and save Abe.

At this point I'm operating under the assumption PB is really Shaggy because if not, I would think the real one would've come out since he already caught a wolf for us. If it had been an unknown / uncleared person who started the drive to save Abe, I would be much more interested in lynching Abe, but since it was two villagers who made that move, I am going to assume Abe is ok barring further information.

Thus my vote will go elsewhere today, again barring anything further coming to light.

Just to play devil's advocate...

The person who initiated the Telle run was the person who was under the gun of being voted out. I don't think that we can judge that run by who started it. Neither PB or Danny would have known Telle's allegiance so that really doesn't speak for Abe's presumed guilt or innocence.

If we go the Abe route: If Abe is good than we focus on those who didn't move their vote (there would be no need to move if it is vllager/villager/villager). If Abe is bad we need to look at the secondary group who joined in with PB and Danny.


Some other food for thought. PB tried basically posted that he thought he picked up on clues that Abe was the seer. Abe denied (which really means nothing as he should deny no matter what at that point) but why was Abe not targetted that night? They apparently targetted PB to stop his ability so why not target Abe to see if PB really did pick up on something? Why target Danny in that instance?

[hoopsguy]

At this point I'm hoping that Abe is a villager because we've had most/all of the players make an appearance in the thread and Abe has only picked up a handful of votes. There has not been a vociferous defense of him, but the lack of traction on him has me leaning towards other candidates.

If we operating under the assumption that Abe = villager, then what are the reasons to look at NTN/RA? Are they different than the reasons if Abe = wolf? I recognize that it is harder to do analysis with "all candidates were villagers on Day 1" but I don't want the rundown today to be dictated by a false premise.

[EagleFan]

Added the change for the other post deadline vote.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

(73) Lathum votes Chief Rum (CR 1)
(79) Lathum unvotes Chief Rum, votes EagleFan (EF 1) * invalid vote
(87) Lathum unvoted EagleFan, votes Chief Rum (CR 1)
(88) EagleFan votes Raiders Army (CR 1, RA 1)
(96) Abe Sargent votes Lathum (CR 1, RA 1, Lathum 1)
(99) Abe Sargent unvotes Lathum (CR 1, RA 1)
(100) Abe Sargent votes Lathum (CR 1, RA, 1, Lathum 1)
(121) hoopsguy votes Abe Sargent (CR 1, RA 1, Lathum 1, AS 1)
(128) Abe Sargent unvotes Lathum, votes hoopsguy (CR 1, RA 1, AS 1, hoops 1)
(136) Coffee Warlord votes KWhit (CR 1, RA 1, AS 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1)
(140) JAG votes PurdueBrad (CR 1, RA 1, AS 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, PB 1)
(141) PurdueBrad votes Abe Sargent (AS 2, CR 1, RA 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, PB 1)
(153) Chief Rum votes GoldenEagle (AS 2, CR 1, RA 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, PB 1, GE 1)
(157) MartinD votes PurdueBrad (AS 2, PB 2, CR 1, RA 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, GE 1)
(158) ntndeacon votes Raiders Army (AS 2, PB 2, RA 2, CR 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, GE 1)
(159) Raiders Army votes ntndeacon (AS 2, PB 2, RA 2, CR 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, GE 1, ntn 1)
(162) J23 votes PurdueBrad (PB 3, AS 2, RA 2, CR 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, GE 1, ntn 1)
(163) The Jackal votes Abe Sargent (PB 3, AS 3, RA 2, CR 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, GE 1, ntn 1)
(164) lerriuqs votes Raiders Army (PB 3, AS 3, RA 3, CR 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, GE 1, ntn 1)
(170) Chief Rum unvotes GoldenEagle, votes Abe Sargent (AS 4, PB 3, RA 3, CR 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(185) Danny votes PurdueBrad (AS 4, PB 4, RA 3, CR 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(192) Telle votes PurdueBrad (PB 5, AS 4, RA 3, CR 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(195) ntndeacon unvotes Raiders Army, votes PurdueBrad (PB 6, AS 4, RA 2, CR 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(198) Lathum unvotes Chief Rum, votes Abe Sargent (PB 6, AS 5, RA 2, hoops 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(199) lerriuqs unvotes Raiders Army, votes Abe Sargent (PB 6, AS 6, RA 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(203) PurdueBrad unvotes Abe Sargent (PB 6, AS 5, RA 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(210) GoldenEagle votes Abe Sargent (PB 6, AS 6, RA 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(224) PurdueBrad votes Danny (PB 6, AS 6, RA 1, hoops 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1, Danny 1)
(229) Abe Sargent unvotes hoopsguy, votes Danny (PB 6, AS 6, Danny 2, RA 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(233) Lathum unvotes Abe Sargent, votes Danny (PB 6, AS 5, Danny 3, RA 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(256) Coffee Warlord unvotes KWhit, votes Abe Sargent (PB 6, AS 6, Danny 3, RA 1, ntn 1)
(282) KWhit votes PurdueBrad (PB 7, AS 6, Danny 3, RA 1, ntn 1)
(286) Raiders Army unvotes ntndeacon, votes PurdueBrad (PB 8, AS 6, Danny 3, RA 1)
(288) PurdueBrad reveals as Shaggy
(290) Danny unvotes PurdueBrad (PB 7, AS 6, Danny 3, RA 1)
(292) Danny votes Abe Sargent (PB 7, AS 7, Danny 3, RA 1)
(306) Raiders Army unvotes PurdueBrad (AS 7, PB 6, Danny 3, RA 1)
(307) ntndeacon unvotes PurdueBrad (AS 7, PB 5, Danny 3, RA 1)
(318) Raiders Army votes Abe Sargent (AS 8, PB 5, Danny 3, RA 1)
(324) J23 unvotes PurdueBrad (AS 8, PB 4, Danny 3, RA 1)
(344) PurdueBrad unvotes Danny (AS 8, PB 4, Danny 2, RA 1)
(346) PurdueBrad votes Telle (AS 8, PB 4, Danny 2, RA 1, Telle 1)
(354) ntndeacon votes KWhit (AS 8, PB 4, Danny 2, RA 1, Telle 1, KWhit 1)
(361) Danny unvotes Abe Sargent, votes Telle (AS 7, PB 4, Danny 2, Telle 2, RA 1, KWhit 1)
(364) Raiders Army unvotes Abe Sargent, votes Telle (AS 6, PB 4, Telle 3, Danny 2, RA 1, KWhit 1)
(370) Abe Sargent unvotes Danny, votes Telle (AS, 6, PB 4, Telle 4, Danny 1, RA 1, KWhit 1)
(372) Raiders Army unvotes Telle, votes ntndeacon (AS 6, PB 4, Telle 3, Danny 1, RA 1, KWhit 1, ntn 1)
(377) ntndeacon unvotes KWhit, votes Telle (AS 6, PB 4, Telle 4, Danny 1, RA 1, ntn 1)
(382) Raiders Army unvotes ntndeacon, votes Telle (AS 6, Telle 5, PB 4, Danny 1, RA 1)
(385) hoopsguy unvotes Abe Sargent, votes Telle (Telle 6, AS, 5, PB 4, Danny 1, RA 1)
(387) Coffee Warlord unvotes Abe Sargent, votes Telle * after actual 8:59 mark, not counted
(389) deadline posted by Schmidty
(390) J23 votes Telle * vote late, not counted


Final vote count:
Telle 6 - PurdueBrad (346), Danny(361), Abe (370), ntndeacon (377), Raiders Army (382), hoopsguy (385)
Abe Sargent 5 - The Jackal (163), Chief Rum (170), Lerruiqs (199), GoldenEagle (210), Coffee Warlord (256)
PurdueBrad 4 - JAG (140), MartinD (157), Telle (192), KWhit (282)
Raiders Army 1 - EagleFan (88)
Danny 1 - Lathum (233)

[hoopsguy]

Anyone have different info for a vote total?

Abe - Lathum (536), NTN (538), Lerri (568)
NTN - RA (569)

[EagleFan]

I wonder why the person who made the vote which changed day one (from Abe being lynched to Telle) would not want us to find out where Abe's allegiance is... Just a little more food for thought.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Just to play devil's advocate...

The person who initiated the Telle run was the person who was under the gun of being voted out. I don't think that we can judge that run by who started it. Neither PB or Danny would have known Telle's allegiance so that really doesn't speak for Abe's presumed guilt or innocence.

Nope, but I assume that the wolves would have been fighting hard that afternoon to push PB ahead or to get a third candidate introduced that would give them more wiggle room to save Abe. I'm not going to be able to post-dive this afternoon to research this, but I don't recall this happening in any effective manner prior to the late Telle surge.

If you assume that Abe = wolf then you have to believe that they had the votes they needed to get PB lynched (oops, the reveal made that a lot harder!) or they had basically extended all their energy already and had to hope we let them off the hook at the end.