WW Dukes Versus Hunters (GAME OVER!!--See Post #1387)

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Vaimes's warning... I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but does it seem that it could be worse than alignment-neutral in effect? If you think through the reasons Wolf!Vaimes would have given a warning, you can essentially rule out the point of giving that warning in thread because the complicit actors of Font or Martin could have been in on it in wolfchat.

The warning could have been designed to elicit exactly the confusion we're in right now.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by Raven

Seems unlikely, since he would HAVE to be The Blank AND The Cultist.
I think we can rule out Vaimes being the Cultist.

Yes, vaimes is not the cultist. He injured font. No items would allow the BLANK to injure.

[Raven]

^^Actually scratch that. It seems The Cultist would think he could shoot, but the effect would be as if he was The Blank, even though he wasn't specifically The Blank. So he wouldn't HAVE to be The Blank if he was The Cultist.

Am I now interpreting that correctly?

[Raven]

Originally Posted by timmae

Yes, vaimes is not the cultist. He injured font. No items would allow the BLANK to injure.

But his shot was intercepted, so we don't know if it would have killed font had it hit. Depends on how Chief set up the mechanics of this.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Raven

But his shot was intercepted, so we don't know if it would have killed font had it hit. Depends on how Chief set up the mechanics of this.

It wasn't intercepted (as it would have been by the BG). It hit font who was then healed by MartinD. Vaimes was not shooting blanks.

[Shoveler]

Just thinking out loud here. but I think we have to make martin use his duke today. But we dont need to lynch vote him.

We can go another way with the lynch vote, but, I think any vanilla villager dukes that may find themselves in the lynch lead should duke to martin for the double duke. This will force him to use his ability in that event, and we see what happens in the tie breaker mechanic.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

It wasn't intercepted (as it would have been by the BG). It hit font who was then healed by MartinD. Vaimes was not shooting blanks.

OK. Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. I was confusing myself.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

It wasn't intercepted (as it would have been by the BG). It hit font who was then healed by MartinD. Vaimes was not shooting blanks.

There's a joke hidden here somewhere...

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by timmae

There's a joke hidden here somewhere...

I've hit my quota for the day.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Vaimes

fontisian claimed Duke here.

"I'd prefer to kill Dukes over Hunters toDay [...] minor win condition be damned [...]."

As in, "I want to kill a Duke toDay even though I am a Duke because reasons."

Ok I can see that now. Gotta say that that's a case of your tone hurting the village as I was looking for more recent posts where Font explicitly claimed Duke. I wouldn't take a risk like that based on what she said but we're back to the Martin situation where others don't act as I would.

Did you not consider that font "blatantly claiming" duke would be a weird thing for a wolf to do? As it opens them to day-killing.

The scenario for Vaimes killing font doesn't have to be as Machiveliean as cheeki paints. There could be a wolf buddy who scanned font and told Vaimes about it.

[Narcizo]

I don't really understand the argument about Martin reacting to Font or Vaimes. He's already claimed that his decision was random. My guess is that you get to give a protect order before Day break. This goes for people claiming that " there's no way he could have reacted in time" and the people who claim that he could have reacted to Vaimes' threats etc etc.

[Raven]

Vaimes doesn't seem to care much about all this, despite a ton of attention focused on him.

[Chief Rum]

Morning folks.

I'll get a vote count going shortly.

[cheekimonk]

Well, I've analyzed what I can of the trio for what it's worth. My read yesterday was Vaimes but I don't feel I can go there today.

[Narcizo]

I was pretty sure about Vaimes being village until I looked at the recent font posts. I don't know if I have that certainty anymore but I still tend to think that risking a daykill this early points towards villagish lack of concern of own well-being, so having seen font's comment again I wanna put Vaimes in with Shoveler, Jackal and cheeki.

Autumn has migrated a bit from pretty negative to sort of neutral for me but he has been pinging me.

[cheekimonk]

Also, I'm covered in meetings up until deadline but not running the last one so may have time to hop back in.

[Narcizo]

I forgot about the cultist not having hunter/duke powers - Vaimes being cultist had crossed my mind but my interpretation of the rules says that he can't be.

[EagleFan]

Phone posting so keeping it short. Stuck waiting on my car to get finished, that came up this morning as they could fit me in. Meeting coming up but will try to get some down time afterwards to read through the posts.

We should probably go MartinD and a player from yesterday's vote. That way it's not a runaway. We can get information with today's vote that way, sort of kill two birds with one stone and hopefully catch a wolf in the process.

[Narcizo]

The only problem is I don't like anyone from yesterday's vote (jackal, Vaimes or timmae - can't vote for Font). Or cheeki for that matter. Who continues to exude villager confusion rather that bad intent to my ears.

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I don't really understand the argument about Martin reacting to Font or Vaimes. He's already claimed that his decision was random. My guess is that you get to give a protect order before Day break. This goes for people claiming that " there's no way he could have reacted in time" and the people who claim that he could have reacted to Vaimes' threats etc etc.

Not quite - it was more along the lines of 'one of the Hunters is probably going to be trigger-happy, and I'm around at deadline - makes sense to make a choice of someone to protect early in the day just in case'.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Gah! Bold fail.


Chief - if a peacemaker uses his power
a) does it result in a no-lynch even if no-one dukes?
b) is the identity of the duke who tried to move the vote revealed?
c) is it used up even if no-one tries to duke?

If there is no duking, there is no need for the Peacemaker to intervene. A lynch would happen and the Peacemaker would continue to have his power.

The identity of anyone who attempts to Duke (and thus loses their Duke ability) will be clear from the write-ups.

Anyone who tries to Duke will lose their Duke ability, whether it works or not.

[Shoveler]

Well, I'm going to vote for the person that I feel has been extra shady last night and today. Hopefully someone will duke to martin today so we can get a good look at what we are dealing with regarding that whole fiasco.

Vote Autumn

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I believe Chief said one kill/attempted kill per day, no?

Correct.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

Well, I'm going to vote for the person that I feel has been extra shady last night and today. Hopefully someone will duke to martin today so we can get a good look at what we are dealing with regarding that whole fiasco.

Vote Autumn

I don't really follow your thinking here. Do you want Autumn lynched or a duke to commit suicide duking to Martin?

[Chief Rum]

Day Two Vote Tally (as of Post #574)


MartinD (3)-- cheekimonk (480), timmae (495), EagleFan (500)
Autumn (1)-- Shoveler (572)
cheekimonk (1)-- Autumn (465)

Yet to Vote: Many

Unable to Vote: fontisian

[timmae]

I haven't played with mrbug before... is he usually a low volume poster? I am not sure how we resolve this with wanting a possible duke to martin. If he's never around then we waste that opportunity. But if he isn't helping us track down evil then we are also hurt. Thoughts?

[Grover]

vote MrBug

Very silent today. Maybe this will get him to talk? Just curious where he's been all this time. Did he say he would be gone most of today? I know this vote accomplishes little right now, but we have little go off of with MrBug.

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I don't really follow your thinking here. Do you want Autumn lynched or a duke to commit suicide duking to Martin?

Both?

There are 8 dukes in the game currently. Can't hurt to burn a few today.

[MartinD]

Putting a placeholder vote down:

VOTE CHEEKIMONK

I'm not around for a couple of hours, but should be back a bit before deadline.

[Narcizo]

I'm trying to decide what has been pinging me about Autumn. This is what I've come up with.

Originally Posted by Autumn

Looking at the JAG kill, I want to look at Cheekimonk today in the vote. JAG was suspicious of cheek and the vote only moved away from him because he wasn't around. The wolves may have figured JAG might be back on him tomorrow.

vote cheekimonk

The first conclusion I draw when Jag is night-killed is that there is a vet in the wolves. Not that its some sort of plan to cover for cheeki. Feels like a reach to me.

Originally Posted by Autumn

This is also a post i'm not crazy about. I know Narc thinks out loud like me, but this post basically says he doesn't like zinto being pushed in the front, doesn't like jackal being pushed into second, but also doesn't like the idea of Vaimes being duked. Yet he likes Zinto the best. Seems like a lot of dithering without offering any actual candidates.

I don't feel like Autumn thinks I post this as a wolf. Maybe he's thinking out loud as well. But his thinking out loud seems to have a purpose ( casting suspicion my way) while mine was expressing frustration at the fact that I didn't like any of the candidates but didn't feel able to move the vote.

Originally Posted by Autumn

I don't think obsessing over the Martin/Font/Vaimes triangle is going to do us good right now. There are a lot of possibilities, and with time, we will begin to figure out which one. But letting the vote center simply on those three is going to hurt us in the long run. I suggest we find other candidates, and let that action be just one piece of evidence we keep in mind.

I've seen wolf Autumn post villager-helpful comments. This could mean that all three are village and wolf-Autumn is expecting a Martin lynch and is laying the groundwork for a "told you so! Let's all vote cheeki now" day three. Except more-subtle like. Dunno. Maybe it means font and Martin are wolves and he wants to buy time for them.

Not much to hang one's hat on. I know that I can be guilty of misreading village Autumn as suspicious. But I agree that we need candidates so I'm going this way for now

vote Autumn

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

Both?

There are 8 dukes in the game currently. Can't hurt to burn a few today.

You can't have both.

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I don't really follow your thinking here. Do you want Autumn lynched or a duke to commit suicide duking to Martin?

Ok I'll explain what I am thinking..

If Autumn is village and a duke, he might agree with my thinking about duking to martin and sacrificing himself.

If Autumn is a wolf duke, he definitely doesn't duke to a known village duke, and he doesn't duke to another wolf duke, and very unlikely dukes to a wolf hunter.

Now the catch here is Martin, we know he is a duke.

If Autumn is a hunter, but Martin believes he is a duke, Martin dukes to vaimes and we still get information, although less helpful based on current beliefs. This also removes the known hunter that the wolves can duke to later.

There is the potential for one or more dukes to get burned today. I dont see this as a bad thing, if we save up all these dukes for later down the road, we are going to have next to no control over the late game lynching.

[Shoveler]

If Martin is village, he is finding himself in a bad spot today, so he doesn't use his duke and lets this play out and potentially be sacrificed.

If Martin is a wolf, he dukes to vaimes, or someone else to attempt to enact the tie breaker mechanic.

If Autumn and Martin are wolves.. we probably only see one duke today and end up with a duke to vaimes or a gamble duke to an unknown.

[cheekimonk]

I agree with Narc re: Autumn wanting to pull the attention off the font/Vaimes/MartinD trio. It was too early with too much info to still ferret out. I'm also pretty sure I don't want a vote directly on MartinD. If he's wolf, which I think is possible, I don't want him choosing who to duke.

unvote MartinD
vote Autumn

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

I agree with Narc re: Autumn wanting to pull the attention off the font/Vaimes/MartinD trio. It was too early with too much info to still ferret out. I'm also pretty sure I don't want a vote directly on MartinD. If he's wolf, which I think is possible, I don't want him choosing who to duke.

unvote MartinD
vote Autumn

You don't have to be the lynch leader to use the duke ability. Martin can use it today if he feels the need.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

You don't have to be the lynch leader to use the duke ability. Martin can use it today if he feels the need.

Crap. Right. I'll get it.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I've seen wolf Autumn post villager-helpful comments. This could mean that all three are village and wolf-Autumn is expecting a Martin lynch and is laying the groundwork for a "told you so! Let's all vote cheeki now" day three. Except more-subtle like. Dunno. Maybe it means font and Martin are wolves and he wants to buy time for them.

I got a similar impression from Autumn yesterday. Everyone was looking at the Martin/font/Vaimes trio, and he seemed to be targeting elsewhere as if to clear himself if they came up village.

[timmae]

Question for those that are voting autumn... I felt he was a little off in some of his vote strategy reviews and the fact that he forgot that font was not allowed to be active today. Slight pings there.

Are you guys reading him as evil? I am still on martin and think that there are more questions there but I like that we are looking at other avenues. I just don't know if autumn is it and want to hear others' thoughts. I am open for discussion here.

[Chief Rum]

Day Two Vote Tally (as of Post #587)


Autumn (3)-- Shoveler (572), Narcizo (580), cheekimonk (584)
MartinD (2)-- timmae (495), EagleFan (500)
cheekimonk (2)-- Autumn (465), MartinD (579)
MrBug708 (1)-- Grover (577)

Yet to Vote: Raven, The Jackal, Vaimes, britrock88, MrBug708

Unable to Vote: fontisian

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Grover

vote MrBug

Very silent today. Maybe this will get him to talk? Just curious where he's been all this time. Did he say he would be gone most of today? I know this vote accomplishes little right now, but we have little go off of with MrBug.

Originally Posted by timmae

I haven't played with mrbug before... is he usually a low volume poster? I am not sure how we resolve this with wanting a possible duke to martin. If he's never around then we waste that opportunity. But if he isn't helping us track down evil then we are also hurt. Thoughts?

I'm a teacher and I didn't check the deadline times so once morning hits. We are in the midst of state testing right now so it's hard to post during school hours.

yesterday was a bad day, if you check the food allergy thread on the other board so I was pretty out of it

I don't have much to add today as I'm clearly over my head with some great players. I'm usually low volume on the first few days so if that's a reason to vote for me, so be it

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by timmae

Question for those that are voting autumn... I felt he was a little off in some of his vote strategy reviews and the fact that he forgot that font was not allowed to be active today. Slight pings there.

Are you guys reading him as evil? I am still on martin and think that there are more questions there but I like that we are looking at other avenues. I just don't know if autumn is it and want to hear others' thoughts. I am open for discussion here.

Can you expand on this thinking? This is exactly why autumn has my vote right now, very vague unhelpful comments. If he flips wolf I would probably look at you tomorrow.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I'm a teacher and I didn't check the deadline times so once morning hits. We are in the midst of state testing right now so it's hard to post during school hours.

yesterday was a bad day, if you check the food allergy thread on the other board so I was pretty out of it

I don't have much to add today as I'm clearly over my head with some great players. I'm usually low volume on the first few days so if that's a reason to vote for me, so be it

Saw that thread and never put 2+2 together with this game.

To be fair, I believe you're a villager. Was just trying to get you to talk.

unvote MrBug

[Chief Rum]

Heading out to lunch. Be back in an hour.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by Shoveler

Can you expand on this thinking? This is exactly why autumn has my vote right now, very vague unhelpful comments. If he flips wolf I would probably look at you tomorrow.

I am voting martin right now because I do not see why he would protect font unless if there is a connection there of some sort. It seems like there must be more to it than random chance. I am reading more evil there than with autumn. My guess is that autumn presents a better strategy long term (level 2 thinking) which is why I asked the question.

[Raven]

Deadline ticking and still confused as hell...

vote MartinD

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Grover

Saw that thread and never put 2+2 together with this game.

To be fair, I believe you're a villager. Was just trying to get you to talk.

unvote MrBug

I'm on cell phone and bad reception until 4ish pst. I'll vote here soon

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by timmae

Question for those that are voting autumn... I felt he was a little off in some of his vote strategy reviews and the fact that he forgot that font was not allowed to be active today. Slight pings there.

Are you guys reading him as evil? I am still on martin and think that there are more questions there but I like that we are looking at other avenues. I just don't know if autumn is it and want to hear others' thoughts. I am open for discussion here.

I'm reading him as slightly less than nuetral, but I don't have a lot of confidence in that. If it was my sole responsibility to pick a lynch candidate then I'd probably go for Martin but I don't want a runaway or a two-horse race of cheeki-Martin and Autumn was the only one I'm getting bad vibes from.

[Grover]

vote Autumn

I've had similar feelings as Narc's, especially when it comes to the one-horse race. I don't want a runaway on Martin. I'm sticking here through the deadline.

[Narcizo]

I do get the feeling that there is a wolf here somewhere but I am starting to feel less confidence in cheeki. He seems to be attaching himself to any bandwagon that gets rolling. I seem to remember him doing that as villager in another game though. I'm wishing Jackal/Britrock would show up starting to fear a flustered cluck near deadline.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I do get the feeling that there is a wolf here somewhere but I am starting to feel less confidence in cheeki. He seems to be attaching himself to any bandwagon that gets rolling. I seem to remember him doing that as villager in another game though. I'm wishing Jackal/Britrock would show up starting to fear a flustered cluck near deadline.

I sent a text to Jackal to remind him deadline was at 4. Hopefully he shows up.