Interesting times in Iran..

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More protests and confrontation expected on Friday per links on Andrew Sullivan's blog. Some of the bigger leaders in the opposition may participate.......

Iran Opposition Alert: Friday is the Day? | Enduring America

In addition, the senior cleric in Iran has issued a fatwa declaring the Supreme Leader's regime "illegitimate and defying Islam".........

http://tehranbureau.com/grand-ayatol...tazeris-fatwa/

[Flasch186]

FWIW

This is a very good informative post In my opinion and exactly what people like me are looking for in this thread.

EDIT to add - I still dont like that we're considering 'news' to be bloggish but it is what it is.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

In addition, the senior cleric in Iran has issued a fatwa declaring the Supreme Leader's regime "illegitimate and defying Islam".........

This seems somewhat serious.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

This seems somewhat serious.

Seems pretty ballsy, eh? I don't think these kinds of things get enough credit. This guy is risking his life with this comment. It'll definitely stir up the masses assuming guys like Mousavi hold up their end and show up for the protests. I think they'll do so.

[lungs]

Can somebody please explain to me why the links in this thread have been my best source of info since the initial rush?

[DaddyTorgo]

cuz the mainstream media has no access and they know the typical american tv viewer likes pictures over substance so they're reluctant to cover it

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lungs

Can somebody please explain to me why the links in this thread have been my best source of info since the initial rush?

In all honesty, because relatively few Americans of working age actually give a serious damn about this.

It's a sidebar at absolute most for the average TV viewer, there's little margin in covering it in more than the most cursory manner & doubly or triply so given the apparent difficulties in covering it accurately.

edit to add: You're getting more coverage on this here than elsewhere because it's essentially a niche deal, same as sports text sims.

[tarcone]

A possible revolution in the regions most powerful nation is a niche? Man that is crazy. This could change the face of the world if, as Im assuming it is correct, a more friendly-to-the-USA leader gains power.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

A possible revolution in the regions most powerful nation is a niche? Man that is crazy.

Go talk to 100 random Americans & see how many of them are following the story in anything other than the most casual fashion.

This could change the face of the world if, as Im assuming it is correct, a more friendly-to-the-USA leader gains power.

LOL. This is akin to trading one sack of shit for a slightly smaller sack of shit. If that's face of the world changing stuff then the planet is too unstable to last much longer & it won't matter much anyway.

edit to add: On the importance meter, this might amount to a tenth of what Kim's reported illness in NK amounts to, at least there we can still hope somebody also knocks off the chosen equally batshit crazy heir & there could be an actual significant improvement in the situation.

[tarcone]

But if a more western friendly type leader is in power and the ayatollah loses power, and the masses want a more western type country, that could bode well for the USA.

Yeah, I know Mousavi may not be all that. But maybe he is the first step to Iran electing a leader that is pro-freedom in the near future.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

But maybe he is the first step to Iran electing a leader that is pro-freedom in the near future.

I guess I'd have more than a trivial interest (i.e. I'm following this story with a passing interest largely because it's random info that's out there & crosses my path vs something I have any passion about following) if I thought for even a minute that:
1) That would happen in the next hundred years
2) That it would actually be remotely functional as a government even if it did
3) That it would actually make any substantial difference in the relationship between the U.S./Iran or more generally The West/Iran.

But I don't believe any of those things are even remotely realistic, so this is kind of the socio-political equivalent to me knowing that Bruno nipped the Ice Age sequel in the weekend box office receipts. I don't particularly give a major shit, but I know nevertheless.

[lungs]

I understand how the average TV watching American doesn't give a shit, but I'm probably somewhere in between being hardcore news addict and the average dipshit when it comes to my 'give a shit'ness. I read BBC, I read Drudge, I read other news outlets. But when it comes to Iran, I'm getting all my info in this thread.

Unless I'm not looking hard enough. But having others follow sites that I don't follow and posting the relevant stuff here is nice and appreciated because this is a topic I do give a shit about.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lungs

I understand how the average TV watching American doesn't give a shit, but I'm probably somewhere in between being hardcore news addict and the average dipshit when it comes to my 'give a shit'ness. I read BBC, I read Drudge, I read other news outlets. But when it comes to Iran, I'm getting all my info in this thread.

Unless I'm not looking hard enough. But having others follow sites that I don't follow and posting the relevant stuff here is nice and appreciated because this is a topic I do give a shit about.

The average American votes once every 4 years and often only votes knowing a small portion of the information about each candidate. I don't think it should be any less surprising that the average American isn't tuned in to the fact that possible world-changing events are occurring in Iran.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More info coming out today. First a brutal raping of a woman who was taken on the streets. Her 'womb and anus were ruptured in an unfortunate accident' according to the government official. That's a helluva 'accident'.

Shirin Sadeghi: The Rape of Taraneh: Prison Abuse of Iran's Protesters

Mousavi will be at Friday sermon and more protests in the street are planned after that sermon.............

Mousavi: Protesters' blood will not go in vain

More video of the nightly rooftop protests that continue into their 4th week........

Last Night’s Chants of “Allah-o Akbar” « niacINsight

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

More info coming out today. First a brutal raping of a woman who was taken on the streets. Her 'womb and anus were ruptured in an unfortunate accident' according to the government official. That's a helluva 'accident'.

Shirin Sadeghi: The Rape of Taraneh: Prison Abuse of Iran's Protesters

Mousavi will be at Friday sermon and more protests in the street are planned after that sermon.............

Mousavi: Protesters' blood will not go in vain

More video of the nightly rooftop protests that continue into their 4th week........

Last Night’s Chants of “Allah-o Akbar” « niacINsight

And the raped woman will probably be executed for daring to be raped.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lungs

And the raped woman will probably be executed for daring to be raped.

Actually, they won't do that. As was mentioned over at Andrew Sullivan's site, if they kill her, she becomes a martyr. If they let her live, she is a relative outcast in their society (i.e. it was somehow her fault).

Interesting read about tomorrow. Good points in here about how many of the opposition leaders prefer to work behind the scenes to uproot power rather than doing it in an open manner. Also notes the surprising resignation of the leader of the country's nuclear program.

Iran Opposition Leader Plans Public Appearance - NYTimes.com

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Heavy protests in the streets following the Friday sermon. Lots of confrontations between riot police and protesters. Several thousand protesters now have the State-run media building surrounded and are trying to break in. There are reports that religious police are becoming battle-weary and that government is having to pay more to get more 'volunteer' forces into Tehran.

I'll link the general thread for this week's information over at Huffington Post if interested in more/ongoing details...........

Iran Uprising Blogging: Latest Updates

[Flasch186]

I'd agree that THIS is enough people, IMO, to be considered 'Large':

Police tear-gas Iran protesters during prayer
AP


TEHRAN, Iran – Tens of thousands of government opponents packed Iran's main Islamic prayer service Friday, chanting "freedom, freedom" and other slogans as their top clerical backer Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani delivered a sermon bluntly criticizing the country's leadership over the crackdown on election protests.

Outside, police and pro-government Basiji militiamen fired tear gas and charged thousands of protesters who chanted "death to the dictator" and called on President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to resign. Dozens were arrested, piled in trucks and taken away, witnesses said.

Plainclothes Basijis stood in front of a line of riot police and pumped canisters of tear gas, which young protesters with green bandanas over their faces kicked away across the pavement, away from the crowds. Some set a bonfire in the street and waved their hands in the air in victory signs.

The opposition aimed to turn the Friday prayers at Tehran University into a show of their continued strength despite heavy government suppression since the disputed June 12 presidential election.

Opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi, who claims to have won the election, sat in the front row of worshippers, attending for the first time since the turmoil began. Many of the tens of thousands at the prayers wore headbands or wristbands in his campaign color green, or had green prayer rugs.

In his sermon broadcast live on radio nationwide, Rafsanjani reprimanded the clerical leadership for not listening to people's complaints over the election, which was declared a victory for Ahmadinejad despite opposition claims of fraud.

"Doubt has been created (about the election results)," Rafsanjani said. "There is a large portion of the wise people who say they have doubts. We need to take action to remove this doubt."

Rafsanjani couched his sermon in calls for unity in support of Iran's Islamic Republic. But his sermon was an unmistakable challenge to Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who declared Ahmadinejad's victory valid and ordered an end to questioning of the results. Rafsanjani said the dispute has split clerics and warned of "crisis."

Worshippers interrupted Rafsanjani with chants of "azadi, azadi" — Persian for "freedom" — and the cleric got tears in his eyes as he spoke of how Islam's Prophet Muhammad "respected the rights" of his people. Rafsanjani said the leader of the 1979 Islamic revolution, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, "knew that people's vote was the most important thing in our country" and insisted it be enshrined in the founding of the Islamic Republic.

"Where people are not present or their vote is not considered, that government is not Islamic," Rafsanjani said.

He criticized the postelection wave of arrests, saying the leadership should show sympathy for protesters and release those detained. "Sympathy must be offered to those who suffered from the events... and reconcile them with the ruling system," he said. "We need to placate them."

Rafsanjani, a former president, regularly gives the Friday sermon but had not appeared since the election turmoil began. He is bitter rival of Ahmadinejad and is considered Mousavi's top supporter within Iran's clerical leadership, heading two of the three main clerical bodies that oversee the government. His daughter and four other relatives who openly backed Mousavi were briefly detained during protests last month.

In the days after the June election, hundreds of thousands marched in the streets in support of Mousavi. But after Khamenei validated the results, police, elite Republican Guards and Basiji militiamen launched a fierce crackdown on protesters in which hundreds were arrested and at least 20 killed — though human rights groups say the figure could be several times that official toll.

The scene outside the university on Friday was tumultuous. Before the sermon, police fired tear gas at hundreds of Mousavi backers trying to enter. When Mahdi Karroubi, another pro-reform candidate in the June election, headed for the prayers, plainclothes Basijis attacked him, shoving him and knocking his turban to the ground, witnesses said. "Death to the opponent of Velayat-e-Faqih," they chanted as they attacked him, referring to the supreme leader, the witnesses said.

Also arrested was a prominent women's rights activist, Shadi Sadr, who was beaten by militiamen, pushed into a car and driven away to an unknown location, Mousavi's Web site موج سبز آزادی :: Green Freedom Wave and a women's rights site Object reference not set to an instance of an object. said.

Inside the prayers — held on a former soccer field covered with a roof — some worshippers rubbed their eyes as tear gas from outside drifted in. They traded competing chants with some hard-liners in the congregation. When the hard-liners chanted "death to America," Mousavi supporters countered with "death to Russia" and "death to China."

It was a reference to Ahmadinejad's alliance with both countries. Ahmadinejad has come under criticism in Iran for not criticizing Beijing over Muslim deaths in China's western Xinjiang province.

After the prayers, some worshippers joined the protests outside, swelling their numbers to thousands, witnesses said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of fears of government retaliation.

In his sermon, Rafsanjani — known as a mercurial and savvy political insider — was careful not to mention Khamenei. But he sharply criticized the Guardians Council, a powerful clerical body that has become Khamenei and Ahmadinejad's strongest backers. The Guardians Council oversaw the election, then conducted a partial recount that validated Ahmadinejad's victory. Opponents dismiss the recount.

Rafsanjani said the Guardians Council had had an "opportunity to unite the people and regain their trust," but the chance was "not used properly."

Rafsanjani heads two other top clerical bodies, the Experts Council and the Expediency Council. In the past week, a behind-the-scenes power struggle between Rafsanjani and the Guardians Council has become public, fueling heavy hard-liner criticism of Rafsanjani.

Rafsanjani also openly spoke of the split among clerics over the election. Many other prominent clerics have been sharply critical of the government or have failed to announce their backing for Ahmadinejad, including most of the country's "maraje'-e-taghlid," or "sources of emulation," Shiite clerics of the highest rank whose religious rulings are closely obeyed by their many followers.

"The maraje'-e-taghlid have always supported and served (the people). Why some of them are offended?" Rafsanjani said. "We need to keep them beside us. We need to support them and rely on them."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090717/..._iran_election

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of news coming out of Iran today (links via Huffington Post blog). Supreme Leader remains defiant, calls for opposition to stand down.......

The Associated Press: Iran supreme leader warns opposition to back down

Intriguing stuff here. 36 Army soldiers of various rank were arrested after attempting to protest government crackdown at Friday sermon......

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...icers-arrested

Former Iranian president calls for referendum on legitimacy of current government.

http://blog.taragana.com/n/irans-ex-...crisis-114522/

Former parliament speaker calls out government violence.....

"How do they try to say that they do not confront people violently or to blame others? All of this took place in front of people's eyes," Karrubi told supporters, according to Aftab. "They kill the youth in front of people's eyes and then say that they didn't have firearms. As a member of this system, I am embarrassed of these thoughtless and clear lies."

There were reports Friday that Karrubi himself was roughed up by members of the Basij, the paramilitary force loyal to Iran's hardline leadership. CNN could not independently verify those reports at the time, but Karrubi said he was "assaulted" and that his turban was knocked off, according to Aftab.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This has to be a relatively scary turn of events for many of the police from rural areas who are getting paid to crack down. The opposition is now posting pictures of people who have killed innocent protesters. The one in the below link is a big one......he's the guy that killed Neda.

Arash Hejazi's contemplations

Makes it awfully tough to recruit people when they know they might have their picture posted on the internet as a thug to be targeted.

[Flasch186]

also scary in that how do you know that he is actually the guy that killed her? It flies in the face of trial and justice to do this and I hope that it doesn't sully their gains towards freedom.

Also Im happy to admit that the internal pressures coming from Rafsanjani may in fact be a long term boon towards a change over there and prove me wrong in that I believed it was over (I still think it tapered off too much to achieve their goals)...it's legs are longer than I initially thought. I hope they prove me wrong in full.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

also scary in that how do you know that he is actually the guy that killed her? It flies in the face of trial and justice to do this and I hope that it doesn't sully their gains towards freedom.

Given that the government is posting the faces of innocent protesters for the same purpose and imprisoning thousands without trial, I don't think its a bad idea at all to post the picture of the man who killed an innocent woman in cold blood. Also, you may not know this, but he has been identified by the doctor who treated Neda on the scene as the one who fired the shots that killed her.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Also, you may not know this, but he has been identified by the doctor who treated Neda on the scene as the one who fired the shots that killed her.

And we all know that eyewitnesses are never wrong, nor do any of them eer have agendas of their own.

As I've alluded to previously, even if the Keystone Koup gets what it wants, the only thing that's going to change there is the faces on the posters.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And we all know that eyewitnesses are never wrong, nor do any of them eer have agendas of their own.

As I've alluded to previously, even if the Keystone Koup gets what it wants, the only thing that's going to change there is the faces on the posters.

Well, in an ideal world, we'd work all that out, but when the government makes efforts to imprison the key witness forcing him to flee the country, it's somewhat difficult to get all of that done. I don't think there's any question who the victim is in this case.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting note here. Ayatollah Khomeini's grandson leaves Iran in protest of crackdown, saying that his grandfather would not have approved of the tactics when he was alive.

Khomeini’s Grandson Flees Iran « niacINsight

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

A ton of updates over the past day too numerous to mention, so I'll just post the update thread.......

Iran Uprising Blogging: Friday Updates

Highlights include a documentary video about the Basij, several of Ahmini's cabinet walking out of a meeting in protest, and further calls for Ahmini's VP to be removed from consideration for office. Also a couple of fatwas mixed in concerning the political crisis and an article detailing the worsening nature of Iran's economic stability.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting battle developing between the supreme leader and Ahmini.

Two Ministers Forced to Leave Iran's Cabinet - washingtonpost.com

[DaddyTorgo]

the economy may be what "breaks" them in the end - it was in 79

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Article detailing the general public outrage in Iran as the stories of abuse and murder slowly begin to leak out. More protests are planned. Big day tomorrow (Thursday) as it is the 40th day after Neda's murder, which is expected to draw large crowds for the all-important mourning day.

Reports of Prison Abuse and Deaths Anger Iranians - NYTimes.com

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Mousavi continues to ratchet up the rhetoric concerning torture...........

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Torture claim against Iran trial

[Flasch186]

This is a spike to the anger level over there, I would imagine, and somewhat push the issue back to the fore....although it seems to me that we're entering the home stretch wherein revolution will be on the backburner at least for another 4ish years :

Iran judiciary looks to calm prison abuse outrage - Yahoo! News

Iran judiciary looks to calm prison abuse outrage
AP

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In this photo released by the semi-official Iranian Fars News Agency, French AP – In this photo released by the semi-official Iranian Fars News Agency, French lecturer Clotilde Reiss, …

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By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer Ali Akbar Dareini, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 39 mins ago

TEHRAN, Iran – Police and judiciary officials sought on Sunday to calm public outrage in Iran over the deaths of detained protesters in prison, acknowledging abuses and calling for those responsible to be punished.

A senior commander of the powerful Revolutionary Guard, which led the crackdown against the protesters, meanwhile, said that the three top opposition figures are the ones who should be put on trial, striking a harder line that suggests tensions at the highest levels of Iran's power structure.

Iran's Prosecutor General Ghorban Ali Dorri Najafabadi called for those responsible for mistreating detainees to be punished, saying that the protesters weren't even meant to be taken to Kahrizak prison, which has been at the center of abuse claims.

"Unfortunately, negligence and carelessness by some officials caused the Kahrizak incident, which is not defendable," he told the state news agency. "During early days, it is possible there were mistakes and mistreatment due to overcrowding in the prison."

His comments were followed up by police chief Gen. Ismail Ahmadi Moghaddam who acknowledged protesters were beaten by their jailers at the same facility and its head has since been arrested along with three guards there and the prison closed down.

However he maintained that the deaths in the prison were not caused by the abuse.

"This detention center was built to house dangerous criminals. Housing people related to recent riots caused an outbreak of disease," the official news agency quoted Moghaddam as saying. Protesters "died of viral illness and not as a result of beating."

Anger of the events at Kahrizak has extended far beyond just the reformist camp, with influential figures in the clerical hierarchy condemning the abuse of detainees and the three deaths known to have taken place there.

Conservative lawmaker Hamid Reza Katouzian rejected the police chief's explanation that illness was to blame for detainee deaths.

"Murders were committed that led to the loss of life of a number of our youth. This has to be probed," the semiofficial ISNA news agency quoted him as saying in an echo of reformist demands that those involved in the abuse be put on trial.

Mohsen Rezaei, a conservative who ran against President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the elections, has led the demands for high-level probes into abuses.

The son of Rezaei's top aide, Abdolhossein Rouhalamini, died in detention. He was arrested during a July 9 protest and taken to a hospital two weeks later where he died within hours.

Iran has confirmed at least 30 people have died in the worst internal unrest since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, though human rights groups believe the death toll is probably far higher. Hundreds have been detained.

The criticisms are implicitly aimed at the elite Revolutionary Guard, which operates with some autonomy from the ruling clerics and led the harsh crackdown and detention of protesters in the tense weeks after the election.

A senior guard commander struck back on Sunday and challenged the judiciary for not going after the three top opposition leaders, Mir Hossein Mousavi, Mahdi Karroubi and former president Mohammad Khatami themselves, who initially led the protests over the June 12 elections on the grounds they were rigged.

"If Mousavi, Khatami ... and Karroubi are the main elements of a velvet coup in Iran, which they are, it is expected that judicial bodies and intelligence officials go to them to put out the fire of sedition, arrest, try and punish them," Yadollah Javani said, according to IRNA.

The Guard was created following the 1979 Islamic revolution as an ideological force to defend Iran's clerical rule. The 120,000-strong force is believed to be better armed and equipped than the regular military. In recent years, the Guard has also amassed a wide network of economic and political power.

The tensions between the Revolutionary Guard and judicial authorities suggests possible rivalries emerging in the highest levels of Iran's leadership as it tries to regain balance after the worst internal unrest since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

Such internal rifts could pose serious complications for Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has previously relied on near seamless unity at the top to enforce policies and control.

The tensions come as Iran presses forward with a mass trial of more than 100 prominent reformist figures, opposition activists and others accused of offenses ranging from rioting to spying and seeking to topple the country's Islamic rulers through what they call is a "soft overthrow".

The trial, which has included televised confessions that rights groups say are likely extracted through pressure, is the government's latest attempt to crush the opposition.

Iran's most senior dissident cleric, Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, has also compared the mass trial and the public confessions to the tactics of former Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein and other authoritarian rulers.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said in a TV interview broadcast Sunday that the Obama administration continued to back the opposition, as she said it did in the days just after the vote.

"We're continuing to speak out and support the opposition," she said on CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS" program.

Clinton said she was appalled at the treatment of detainees brought to trial.

"It is a show trial. There is no doubt about it," she said. "And it is a sign of weakness. It demonstrates, I think, better than any of us could ever say, that this Iranian leadership is afraid of their own people, and afraid of the truth and the facts coming out."

During a second hearing in the trial on Saturday, defendants talked about helping a shadowy monarchist-linked group planning a terror campaign to destabilize the country as well as meeting with U.S. intelligence operatives in northern Iraq, state-run Press TV reported.

Mohammad Reza Ali Zamani said he met with a U.S. intelligence agent called "Frank" in Irbil, the capital of the Iraqi Kurdish autonomous region, and received money and a phone from him in return for information on the Iranian government and student movements.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pretty heavy insult to the Supreme Leader here.......

The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The new diet plan.......Iranian prison-style.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...onid=351020101

[Flasch186]

hey I forgot about this thread


/unfortunate sarcasm

[Flasch186]

bump

[Flasch186]

bubbling up:

Dueling marches pit Iran hardliners vs. reformers - Yahoo! News

TEHRAN, Iran – Tens of thousands of protesters — many decked out in the green colors of the reform movement and chanting "Death to the dictator!" — rallied Friday in defiance of Iran's Islamic leadership, clashing with police and confronting state-run anti-Israel rallies.

In the first major opposition protests in two months, demonstrators marching shoulder-to-shoulder raised their hands in V-for-victory signs on main boulevards and squares throughout the capital.

Lines of police, security forces and plainclothes Basij militiamen kept the two sides apart in most cases. At times they waded into the protesters with baton charges and tear gas volleys. The demonstrators responded by throwing stones and bricks, and setting tires ablaze.

Hard-liners attacked two senior opposition leaders who joined the protests. Former pro-reform President Mohamad Khatami was shoved and jostled, gripping his black turban to keep it from being knocked off as supporters rushed in to protect him, pushing away the attackers and hustling him away.

The protests were a significant show of defiance after supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei explicitly banned anti-government marches on Quds Day, an annual memorial created by Iran's Islamic Republic to show support for the Palestinians and denounce Israel. Quds is Arabic for Jerusalem.

It was also a show of survival. The opposition has been hit hard by a fierce crackdown in which hundreds have been arrested since disputed June 12 presidential elections sparked Iran's worst political turmoil in decades. Friday's protests could escalate the confrontation — hard-line clerics have demanded the arrest of any opposition leaders who defy Khamenei's order and back protests on Quds Day.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who the opposition contends won re-election by fraud, delivered a nationally televised address, railing against Israel and the West.

Speaking before a crowd of supporters at Tehran University, he questioned whether the Holocaust was a "real event" and called it a pretext for the creation of Israel. He said the Jewish state was founded on "a lie and a mythical claim."

Outside the university, while the speech blared on loudspeakers, opposition protesters shouted "liar, liar!"

U.S. officials denounced the Iranian leader's comments on the Holocaust, which Susan Rice, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, called "hateful." She said President Barack Obama would not meet with Ahmadinejad during next week's gathering of world leaders at the U.N. General Assembly.

In protests around Tehran and other Iranian cities, demonstrators chanted "Not Gaza, not Lebanon — our life is for Iran" in a challenge of the government's priority of supporting Palestinian militants in Gaza and Lebanon's Hezbollah guerrillas instead of focusing on problems at home.

The Quds Day rallies, which attracted several hundred thousand people, far outnumbered the tens of thousands who turned out for the opposition — a reflection of the government's freedom to rally supporters.

Opposition supporters wearing green T-shirts and wristbands poured onto main boulevards and squares in the capital, waving green banners and balloons, and pictures of opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi, who claims to be the rightful winner of the election. "Death to the dictator!" they shouted.

Just hundreds of yards away, crowds of Ahmadinejad supporters marched carrying huge photographs of the president and supreme leader Khamenei. Some chanted, "Death to those who oppose the supreme leader!"

A group of hard-liners attacked Khatami nearby, surging toward him as his supporters shoved them away and surrounded the cleric, witnesses said.

Elsewhere, government supporters also tried to attack the main opposition leader, Mousavi, when he joined another march. As supporters scuffled with the attackers, Mousavi was rushed into a car and driven away, a witness said.

All the witnesses spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of government retaliation.

The government imposed restrictions on journalists, allowing them to cover the Quds Day rallies but not opposition protests. As often happens during opposition demonstrations, Internet access and phone service was frequently cut, apparently in a state attempt to sever protesters' communications.

In one of Tehran's main squares, Haft-e Tir, security forces wielding batons and firing tear gas tried to break up an opposition march, and were confronted by protesters throwing stones and bricks, witnesses said. Several policemen were seen being taken away with slight injuries.

Protesters set bonfires during another clash in the city, and young men and women wrapped green scarves over their faces against the clouds of tear gas.

At least 10 protesters were seized by plainclothes security agents in marches around the city, witnesses said.

The pro-government Quds Day rallies were held around the country, and the opposition staged competing rallies in several cities. In Shiraz to the south, police rushed protesters with batons, scuffling with them, witnesses said. Footage put out by the opposition showed hundreds of protesters fleeing a police charge in the northern city of Rasht.

Hundreds of thousands marched in support of Mousavi in the weeks after the June election, until police, Basij militiamen and the elite Revolutionary Guard crushed the protests, arresting hundreds. The opposition says 72 people were killed in the crackdown, though the government puts the number at 36. The last significant protest was on July 17.

The Quds Day occasion was established in 1979 by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, leader of the revolution that created Iran's Islamic Republic. Customarily on Quds Day, Iranians gather for pro-Palestinian rallies in various parts of Tehran, marching through the streets and later converging for the prayer ceremony.

In his speech, Ahmadinejad hailed the commemoration as a "day of unity" for Iranians and denounced criticism of the election.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Thought this would be just as good a place to discuss the Iran situation as anywhere else. Several situations going on right now.

1. New hidden nuclear plant.
2. Direct talks between the U.S. and Iran later this week.
3. Suiss being allowed to check on the three U.S. hostages (who are big-time pawns at this point).
4. Israel ratcheting up talk of an attack on Iran within 6 months.
5. Rooftop protests continue nightly, especially in Tehran.

Other than that, not much going on.

[Flasch186]

Now this is a turn of events I didnt see coming

Revolutionary Guard commanders killed in Iran bomb
AP

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI and NASSER KARIMI, Associated Press Writers Ali Akbar Dareini And Nasser Karimi, Associated Press Writers – 6 mins ago

TEHRAN, Iran – A suicide bomber killed five senior commanders of the elite Revolutionary Guard and at least 26 others in an area of southeastern Iran that has been at the center of a simmering Sunni insurgency, state media reported.

The official IRNA news agency said the dead included the deputy commander of the Guard's ground force, Gen. Noor Ali Shooshtari, as well as a chief provincial Guard commander for the area, Rajab Ali Mohammadzadeh. The other dead were Guard members or local tribal leaders. More than two dozen others were wounded, state radio reported.

The commanders were on their way to a meeting with local tribal leaders in the Pishin district near Iran's border with Pakistan when an attacker with explosives around his waist blew himself up, IRNA said. The explosion occurred at the entrance of a sports complex where the meeting was to be held.

Top provincial prosecutor Mohammad Marzieh was quoted by the semi-official ISNA news agency as saying that a militant group from Iran's Sunni Muslim minority called Jundallah, or Soldiers of God, claimed responsibility.

The region in Iran's southeast has been the focus of violent attacks by Jundallah, which has waged a low-level insurgency in recent years. The group accuses Iran's Shiite-dominated government of persecution and has carried out attacks against the Revolutionary Guard and Shiite targets in the southeast.

That campaign is one of several ethnic and religious small-scale insurgencies in Iran that have fueled sporadic and sometimes deadly attacks in recent years — though none have amounted to a serious threat to the government.

The Revolutionary Guard blamed Sunday's attack on what it called the "global arrogance," a reference to the United States.

"The global arrogance, with the provocation of its local mercenaries, targeted the meeting of the Guard with local tribal leaders," said a Guard statement read out on state TV.

Iranian officials have often raised concerns that Washington might try to incite members of Iran's many ethnic and religious minorities against the Shiite-led government, which is dominated by ethnic Persians.

The Guard commanders targeted Sunday were heading to a meeting with local tribal leaders to promote unity between the Shiite and Sunni Muslim communities.

In April, Iran increased security in Sistan-Baluchistan Province, at the center of the tension, by placing it under the command of the Guard, which took over from local police forces.

The 120,000-strong Revolutionary Guard controls Iran's missile program and has its own ground, naval and air units.

Iran's parliamentary speaker, Ali Larijani, condemned the assassination of the Guard commanders, saying the bombing was aimed at disrupting security in southeastern Iran.

"We express our condolences for their martyrdom. ... The intention of the terrorists was definitely to disrupt security in Sistan-Baluchistan Province," Larijani told an open session of the parliament broadcast live on state radio.

In May, Jundallah took credit for a suicide bombing at a Shiite mosque that killed 25 people in Zahedan, the capital of Iran's Sistan-Baluchistan province, which has witnessed some of Jundallah's worst attacks. Thirteen members of the faction were convicted in the attack and hanged in July.

Jundallah is made up of Sunnis from the Baluchi ethnic minority, which can also be found in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The group has carried out bombings, kidnappings and other attacks against Iranian soldiers and other forces in recent years, including a car bombing in February 2007 that killed 11 members of the Revolutionary Guard near Zahedan.

Jundallah also claimed responsibility for the December 2006 kidnapping of seven Iranian soldiers in the Zahedan area. It threatened to kill them unless members of the group in Iranian prisons were released. The seven were released a month later, apparently after negotiations through tribal mediators.

Iranian officials have accused Jundallah of receiving support from al-Qaida and the Taliban in neighboring Pakistan.

Chris Zambelis, a Washington-based risk management consultant who has studied Jundallah, said in a recent article, however, that there is no evidence al-Qaida is supporting the group even though it has begun to use the kinds of suicide bombings associated with the global terror network.

He said Jundallah likely looks to Baluchi insurgents in Pakistan as a source of inspiration and possibly material support. Its ties to the Taliban based in Pakistani Baluchistan are less clear, but Zambelis said any connections are probably limited to smuggling between the two countries.

"Jundallah's contacts with the Taliban are most likely based on jointly profiting from the illicit trade and smuggling as opposed to ideology," Zambelis wrote in the July issue of West Point's CTC Sentinel.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Incredible stuff here. This kid just stood up and nailed the Supreme Leader for 20 minutes in a public forum. Better yet, he came off as highly intelligent and did a great job of laying out his argument. VERY brave guy.

Mahmoud Vahidnia, Student, Stuns Iran By Criticizing Supreme Leader

[Flasch186]

is there video of it that we can see?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More protests followed by crackdowns. Plenty of video and pictures have been leaked. This will lead to another cycle of mourning protests, which will lead to more deaths, etc......

Iran Police Gun Down Protesters, Protesters Fight Back (PHOTOS) (VIDEO)

[JPhillips]

I'm not familiar with all the details of Shiaism, but apparently the killing of Mousavi's nephew, a Sayyid, on Ashura has the potential to cause a firestorm.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm not familiar with all the details of Shiaism, but apparently the killing of Mousavi's nephew, a Sayyid, on Ashura has the potential to cause a firestorm.

Yes, and I was just reading more about that where the reports coming back are that he was assassinated rather than just a protester being killed. They drove to his house and ran him over with a truck before 5 men stepped out of the truck and shot him dead after running him over.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...i-mousavi.html

I've seen the thoughts in the below article echoed in several places, but it appears that the actions yesterday have left the current regime no options to throw out a sacrificial lamb (i.e. the Supreme leader or Ahmini) and save their power. The irony is that the protesters are now seen as the ones fighting for religious reasons and the regime is seen as clutching for power. We Americans could easily see the motives long ago, but it's now ringing true in Iran's lower and middle class, which is a huge tipping point.

http://www.thenewestdeal.org/2009/12...ng-of-end.html

[DaddyTorgo]

i have a surprising amount of confidence that they'll actually get it done - maybe not tomorrow or the next day or whatever, but this generation will get it done.

[CamEdwards]

Iranian authorities are hitting protestors with trucks.



RendeR will be happy to know that none of the protestors were armed, so there was no chance of any of them "escalating" things by shooting at the people trying to run them over.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Iranian authorities are hitting protestors with trucks.

Wow. If that doesn't leave you speechless, nothing will.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Video of an entire group of baseej being disarmed by an angry mob..........



Another interesting update that the plane for the Supreme Leader and his family that would be used for escape was inspected for flight two days ago, indicating the leadership has real concerns that the conflict will escalate to uncontrollable levels in the coming weeks...........

Shahrzad News: "A jet put on standby to flly Iranian officials"

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Video of an entire group of baseej being disarmed by an angry mob..........



Another interesting update that the plane for the Supreme Leader and his family that would be used for escape was inspected for flight two days ago, indicating the leadership has real concerns that the conflict will escalate to uncontrollable levels in the coming weeks...........

Shahrzad News: "A jet put on standby to flly Iranian officials"

I wonder where the hell they would fly to exactly?

[RainMaker]

I was reading that the government there has gotten a lot better at shutting down people online so the information would be much harder to come by.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I wonder where the hell they would fly to exactly?

If it's a negotiated exit I'd imagine it wouldn't be that hard to find a safe haven. Hell, I'd almost give them a condo in the U.S. if it meant they'd leave Iran.