Werewolf IV - River of Darkness

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by BrianD

You went from sleeping straight to on your way to work? Clearly there is no computer time there. Someone in your house carry you to the car so you can be on the road as soon as you wake up?

Good try. Not going to work.

Vote BrianD.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Good try. Not going to work.

Vote BrianD.

I'm sure you hope it doesn't work, since if it does, the villagers probably win.

[SirFozzie]

Ok: Here's what we've confirmed so far. (if it's not quite confirmed, I will put it in quotes.)

Myself: "Villager"/"Doctor" (disputed claim by BrianD)
Fouts: Villager/The Brothers (by Fonzie)
Tigercat Villager/??? (by dreams)
Fonzie: Villager/The Brothers (by dreams, confirmed that Fonzie was his Brother)
Swaggs: "Knights" (could be a tag team sorceror, doubt it, is very likely what they say they are)
Desnudo: "Knights"
jeff061: Villager/??? Claims to have posted the same text that other dreamers received, I cannot verify as I did not see it because I did not personally view it.
KWhit: "Villager"/??? Unable to confirm, posted details of the dream, but by that point, several had posted about it.. but not a high percentage of falsity.
BrianD: "Villager"/"The Doctor" (Disputed claim by myself, highly believed to be a wolf)

Am I missing someone? Did I miss anything?

[BrianD]

The only thing you don't have is the person controlling (or tied to) the ghosts. I don't think we have any evidence to see who this is, and we probably don't know if the person is a villager, knight, magician, or wolf.

[Swaggs]

I think it is safe to assume that there is (at least) one werewolf remaining, based on last night's killing.

I also believe that there is (at least) one cultist remaining, as well. I feel like the ghosts are being kept alive by the cultist(s?).

[KWhit]

I just wanted to point out that at the point that I posted details of the dream that had NOT been posted at the time (unless you believe that I saw jeff's post at 5:30-6:30am).

I understand that my role is still unconfirmed, but I wanted to make sure people understood what took place.

[kingfc22]

VOTE SIRFOZZIE

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think it is safe to assume that there is (at least) one werewolf remaining, based on last night's killing.

I also believe that there is (at least) one cultist remaining, as well. I feel like the ghosts are being kept alive by the cultist(s?).

I agree with the wolf part. The cultist part is certainly possible, but I don't really know what to think about the ghosts. That is really up in the air.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

VOTE SIRFOZZIE

And here comes the random.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I agree with the wolf part. The cultist part is certainly possible, but I don't really know what to think about the ghosts. That is really up in the air.

From the rules: If the villager who strengthens the ghosts is killed, they will be unable to vote after that point.

[SirFozzie]

maybe he believes you are the Doctor, and I am the fake?

[SirFozzie]

So: The Ghostmaster is either Jeff061/Tigercat/KWhit.

I know that Jeff061 made reference to a minor ability that hadn't helped the group so far.. care to comment Jeff?

[Tigercat]

Well as I said before, if we believe Jeff and SirFonzzie are good guy roles simply because they had the dreams, and we believe those other two are knights, thats at least 11 good guys. That leaves probably 3 bad guys of each bad faction to battle themselves and the 11 good guys. Not to mention if those roles can be fit into 6 slots. I guess its possible that its 11 vs 3 vs 3, I still say I find it hard to believe though. I am starting to wonder if one of the evil factions also had the ability to see the dream and that perhaps we have magicians in our myst seeing the dream.

That said I am still working on who to vote for right now, still breaking down the voting behaviors to make some sense out of it. I guess all I am trying to say is I don't buy that this game is being won easily by us good guys as much as some seem to be saying right now. Fellow sure thing good villagers and dead good guys, I suggest you do like me and put more thought on this.

(I will say if a gun was held to my head right now, I would have to vote for BrianD... Maybe I still will even after I look at everything closely...)

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

BTW.. if you go back.. here's a bit of information that may confirm that Swaggs and Desnudo are knights and therefore clean.

On vote 2: Taz had thoughts about Desnudo being a wolf, and Swaggs immediately went after him, saying that Taz was working against the group.

So.. either they are telling the truth and are knights.. OR.. Desnudo and Swaggs are wolves (along with Brian)... I do not think htere's three wolves left along with all the special roles, so that would likely clear Des/Swaggs as wolves.

I thought this whole issue would likely come back up as it does cast suspicion on both Swaggs and me. Actually, Swaggs was first accused by Taz, in a baseless accusation if you read it. That made me immediately suspicious that Taz had identified Swaggs as a knight and was trying to get him lynched.

When NTNDeacon, who I already knew was a cult member, immediately switched to Swaggs as well, I thought I had confirmation. That led to the whole vote issue between Taz and Barkeep, where I eventually switched to Barkeep. Up until very late in the voting, I was still strongly convinced that Taz was a cult member.

[SirFozzie]

No doubt, the voting pattern for this vote probably won't tell us anything, it'll be too much of a land slide.

[jeff061]

Really don't have a reason to comment at this point, so I'm not going to as it won't help anything out if I do. Suffice to say, when everyone sees my glory there is a very likely chance no one will care that much .

I am not the ghostmaster. I don't want to be killed .

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

So: The Ghostmaster is either Jeff061/Tigercat/KWhit.

I know that Jeff061 made reference to a minor ability that hadn't helped the group so far.. care to comment Jeff?

Wait a second, I thought you had the dream showing I was a villager? Did you or did you not have the dream? Going back on it now?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Well as I said before, if we believe Jeff and SirFonzzie are good guy roles simply because they had the dreams, and we believe those other two are knights, thats at least 11 good guys. That leaves probably 3 bad guys of each bad faction to battle themselves and the 11 good guys. Not to mention if those roles can be fit into 6 slots. I guess its possible that its 11 vs 3 vs 3, I still say I find it hard to believe though. I am starting to wonder if one of the evil factions also had the ability to see the dream and that perhaps we have magicians in our myst seeing the dream.

That said I am still working on who to vote for right now, still breaking down the voting behaviors to make some sense out of it. I guess all I am trying to say is I don't buy that this game is being won easily by us good guys as much as some seem to be saying right now. Fellow sure thing good villagers and dead good guys, I suggest you do like me and put more thought on this.

(I will say if a gun was held to my head right now, I would have to vote for BrianD... Maybe I still will even after I look at everything closely...)

I agree that it all seems too easy. As far as numbers go, I believe that the magicians number three, although it could be to be higher. Two are definitely dead, including King, who just threw out that random vote. When considering overall ratios, remember that the wolves have a tremendous advantage at the start, so there isn't going to be anything close to parity in the overall number of good vs. evil.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Wait a second, I thought you had the dream showing I was a villager? Did you or did you not have the dream? Going back on it now?

The ghostmaster will show as a Villager. Reread Swaggs post.

Never mind.. copied it here.

If the villager who strengthens the ghosts is killed, they will be unable to vote after that point.

[Buzzbee]

Man, this thread is like electronic crack.

[Fouts]

Wow, I just got caught up. Looks like most of the cards are on the table. Since SirFozzie posted first about the dreams, I believe him to be a villager. I don't see any reason for him to lie about being the doctor.

I'm not sure about Jeff and Kwhit.

Vote BrianD

[jeff061]

Yeah, what a crazy game Peregrine thought up.

[Tigercat]

Ah and in my analysis I forgot about Kwit, if you believe him, believe that there are two knights left and that all those who had the dream are good, and just believe that BrianD is bad, thats 12 yes TWELEVE good guys to fight the factions of Wolves and Magicians that split up a group of 5. I am afraid I have to assume at this point that recieving the dreams may not mean much. Although I find it interesting that the so called knights that are still alive didn't have the dream. Not that I am going to name them for a lynching anytime soon necessarily, but.....

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Well as I said before, if we believe Jeff and SirFonzzie are good guy roles simply because they had the dreams, and we believe those other two are knights, thats at least 11 good guys. That leaves probably 3 bad guys of each bad faction to battle themselves and the 11 good guys. Not to mention if those roles can be fit into 6 slots. I guess its possible that its 11 vs 3 vs 3, I still say I find it hard to believe though. I am starting to wonder if one of the evil factions also had the ability to see the dream and that perhaps we have magicians in our myst seeing the dream.

That said I am still working on who to vote for right now, still breaking down the voting behaviors to make some sense out of it. I guess all I am trying to say is I don't buy that this game is being won easily by us good guys as much as some seem to be saying right now. Fellow sure thing good villagers and dead good guys, I suggest you do like me and put more thought on this.

(I will say if a gun was held to my head right now, I would have to vote for BrianD... Maybe I still will even after I look at everything closely...)

I concur. If everyone who claims to have the dream is telling the truth, then I suspect that the dream may have been broadcast to all humans, rather than to all good guy/villager types. Of course, that theory doesn't work either, as Desnudo claims to have had the dream while Swaggs didn't.
Or, alternatively, the dream may have only been received by those directly affected by it (the villagers) and by those in the dreamcaster's faction (I would guess the magicians?). Of course, Desnudo got the dream and Swaggs didn't, which if they are both knights would contradict that theory.

Of course, it may just be that some folks are probably doing a "me too!" response to create confusion about their evil intentions.

[SirFozzie]

Assuming A) We do lynch as scheduled, here's the power breakdown.

So we still have a four strong block.

"The Cleared"
Myself (Doctor). Fonzie/Fouts (The Brothers) Tigercat (could be the Ghostmaster, but doubtful)

The "knights"

Swaggs/Desnudo

The Others
Jeff061/KWhit (Either could be the Ghostmaster, Jeff061 says he has "Some ability")

When the next turn comes, if there's a werewolf killing, one of the pair of Swaggs/Desnudo or Jeff/KWhit are on the block. if there's a sorcerous kill, then either one could be, but it leans more towards Swaggs/Desnudo IN MY OPINION ONLY.

Just my thoughts.

[BrianD]

Is it possible that SirFozzie isn't so much calling me out because he believes that I am evil, but rather is trying to protect KWhit? In his recap, he noted that KWhit posted about the dream but that others had already posted details. He didn't comment at all about the fact that the whole dream was posted. KWhit than quickly commented on the fact that his details came out before most of the other details (aside from the full dream post). That could have been a nice setup.

[Coffee Warlord]

Damn, I gotta get me in one of these.

[Fouts]

I don't understand how Desnudo could have the dream when Swaggs didn't. Are we sure they are knights and not magicians?

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Is it possible that SirFozzie isn't so much calling me out because he believes that I am evil, but rather is trying to protect KWhit? In his recap, he noted that KWhit posted about the dream but that others had already posted details. He didn't comment at all about the fact that the whole dream was posted. KWhit than quickly commented on the fact that his details came out before most of the other details (aside from the full dream post). That could have been a nice setup.

You still at it? I started the dream thread.

The only thing I think you may be doing is trying to use reverse psychology. Very interesting.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Fouts

I don't understand how Desnudo could have the dream when Swaggs didn't. Are we sure they are knights and not magicians?

Read his posts again.

[Fouts]

So are the factions like this?

Villagers vs Wolves

Knights vs Magicians

If that is the case. How would the numbers split up? According to Desnudo there are 3 knights, that would suggest 3 magicians. Start with 3 wolves, then 8? villagers left over? Maybe if we start assigning peoplel to factions we can ferret out the bad guys.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

You still at it? I started the dream thread.

The only thing I think you may be doing is trying to use reverse psychology. Very interesting.

I'm just trying to figure out why you are pushing for me when I know there is no reason for it.

[SirFozzie]

Because I caught you with your furry lil paw in the cookie jar.. I was HOPING you'd say doctor. I was like "Oh.. I hope he says Doctor so I can catch him red handed"

And you played your role perfectly. You stated it knowing noone wants to vote for the Doctor to be lynched, because they might save YOUR ass.. (The wolves.. different story of course.. but the bodyguard might save you ).

Unfortunately, you got stone-cold BUSTED.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Read his posts again.

I did and you're right - nowhere does he say that he had a dream. I don't know where I got that impression.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

So are the factions like this?

Villagers vs Wolves

Knights vs Magicians

If that is the case. How would the numbers split up? According to Desnudo there are 3 knights, that would suggest 3 magicians. Start with 3 wolves, then 8? villagers left over? Maybe if we start assigning peoplel to factions we can ferret out the bad guys.

I think there is something going on with the Wolves vs Magicians too, mostly because of the killing of King. That may have been a try to frame Lathum, or that may have been making use of information given by Lathum.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Because I caught you with your furry lil paw in the cookie jar.. I was HOPING you'd say doctor. I was like "Oh.. I hope he says Doctor so I can catch him red handed"

And you played your role perfectly. You stated it knowing noone wants to vote for the Doctor to be lynched, because they might save YOUR ass.. (The wolves.. different story of course.. but the bodyguard might save you ).

Unfortunately, you got stone-cold BUSTED.

At least that is what you say. You said it yourself, the likely candidates were Jeff, KWhit and me. Jeff was never really a candidate because of the dream posting, so that leaves KWhit and me. I gave my role and you took that as a good way to throw suspicion on me and away from KWhit. And it worked too, since everyone believed you and not me.

*Edit: I suppose it is also possible that you don't know if I am evil or if KWhit is evil and you are hoping that this accusation shakes something out.

[Tigercat]

I have an idea. Airhog seems to have been voting with a mind of his own. Airhog, if these claimed knights aren't really knights vote for them! Seems like plenty good reason for a ghost under his own power(fingers crossed) to vote for someone. Lets clear up how true the knights story is. It would be nice to be sure of two more people.

[SirFozzie]

There's a logical fallacy in your argument, Brian.

Why would a villager protect a werewolf? I am the first one to come out with the dream postings. I've had my information cleared by other folks. KWhit isn't cleared, not by a long shot. Your arguments fail on that point, and you can't fix that hole.

[Tigercat]

BrianD and SirFonzzie, answer QUICK, when did y'all recieve y'all villager dream?

[SirFozzie]

I received it on Night 1 (Tigercat) and Night 2 (Fonzie)

[SirFozzie]

Granted, this solves nothing, since that information got posted earlier in the thread. I'm not going to say when the Dream was received in PM, because that would be meta-gaming it.

[BrianD]

Not last night, but the two nights before. The first one dealt with visions that I couldn't quite make out, but seemed important. The second one was similar, but I was left with a feeling that there were others who would help me know who to protect.

Once all the info about all the dreams came out, I figured that I wasn't given the names directly since having the names and the power to protect them would be too much and mess up the balance.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Fouts

So are the factions like this?

Villagers vs Wolves

Knights vs Magicians

If that is the case. How would the numbers split up? According to Desnudo there are 3 knights, that would suggest 3 magicians. Start with 3 wolves, then 8? villagers left over? Maybe if we start assigning peoplel to factions we can ferret out the bad guys.

I suspect that Desnudo knows of three knights, but there might have been more that were killed before he figured out their identities. Unless part of their role establishment was knowledge of their entire faction (which would also have to be true of the Magicians, I would think).

[Tigercat]

Until Airhog claims that our selfproclaimed knights are false, I vote BrianD. I don't think BrianD recieved a dream about me, and it would seem that everyone who recieved insight that i was just a villager got it on night one, which would explain why no one really cared when NTN voted for me as a ghost(ha, I thought that was odd at the time.) But who seemed to consider NTN's vote? Thats right, BrianD! So that makes me weary that BrianD didn't get a dream. And people who aren't having these dreams are making me nervous, even if some nongood are getting the dream. The so called knights are under my suspicion for the same reason, but again I will wait on Airhogs possible help with that.

[Tigercat]

Ah crap I unvote BrianD but hes still #1 on my list. I thought he was claiming he saw us in his dreams too. But his explaination seems possible, so not quite ready to pull the trigger afterall.

[SirFozzie]

Tiger: even if he's not a wolf, he may be a no-goodnik for the following reason. Him and I have both claimed a role. Both of us state we're a villager and the Doctor.

Obviously, we can not both be right. One of us is true, one of us is not. Why would a villager who isn't the Doctor state he is. Obviously, one of us HAS to be a no-goodnik. You have to determine whom.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Until Airhog claims that our selfproclaimed knights are false, I vote BrianD. I don't think BrianD recieved a dream about me, and it would seem that everyone who recieved insight that i was just a villager got it on night one, which would explain why no one really cared when NTN voted for me as a ghost(ha, I thought that was odd at the time.) But who seemed to consider NTN's vote? Thats right, BrianD! So that makes me weary that BrianD didn't get a dream. And people who aren't having these dreams are making me nervous, even if some nongood are getting the dream. The so called knights are under my suspicion for the same reason, but again I will wait on Airhogs possible help with that.

I told you I didn't get a dream about you. I got dreams, but they were abstract pointing me toward the fact that others in the world would help me to know who to protect. That is why I latched on to Lathum's pronouncement. That is also why I protected you on the night that Lathum commented that if he got eaten, it would be by a wolf and not a Tiger. I took that comment to mean that you were someone worth protecting, and I thought the evil-doers might pick up on that as well.

[Tigercat]

And if they are knights, and BrianD has the balls to say he didn't see us in the dream but rather he got a vague dream like the knights, I think we need to SERIOUSLY consider Sirfonzzie and Kwitt. What do you think villagers and possible knights?

Am I the only one suspicious of SirFonzzie? (besides BrianD)

[SirFozzie]

Since I'm the one who brought the dreams out into public, you may be correct that you're the only one suspicious of me so far.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Tiger: even if he's not a wolf, he may be a no-goodnik for the following reason. Him and I have both claimed a role. Both of us state we're a villager and the Doctor.

Obviously, we can not both be right. One of us is true, one of us is not. Why would a villager who isn't the Doctor state he is. Obviously, one of us HAS to be a no-goodnik. You have to determine whom.

Yes, and as I said above, I am suspicious of you my villager/doctor claiming friend.

A case for BrianD:
That takes a lot of balls to imply that you are a doctor and to be the first to claim to be a doctor if you are not a doctor.
That takes a lot of balls to claim a weird dream unlike the one the villagers are having but like the two that may or may not be good guys.
If he is a werewolf he has some serious werewolf tennis balls on him.

As time goes by I am believeing BrianD more and more I think, and you less and less. I think for me it will come down to if Airhog does anything I can use. If the two knights are true, I believe that the good are recieving these vague dreams and that there are some baddies recieving the same dreams us villagers recieved.

Would be nice to hear what my fellow villagers and the possible knights have to say too.