Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[SirFozzie]

New NXT Champ in a house show in my home state.

[Mota]

My favorite angle of all time is the double turn at Wrestlemania between Bret Hart and Steve Austin. Brilliantly done.

I'll second the Flair / Funk angle, I was so angry when I saw that!

As a kid, I enjoyed the Megapowers collide angle. The best thing about Hulk Hogan is that he had a ton of friends, they'd come to his aid when he needed help, but most of all, they'd turn against him to start cool storylines. I hated Hogan, but I did really like that angle.

The NWO coming together was also a great one, the trash getting thrown into the ring. While apparently in inner circles it was not a secret, I had no insights into it and it was a total shock to me. That changed wrestling.

I was also a huge CM Punk fan, and the whole "voice of the voiceless" thing was a huge thing to me. It represented rebellion against everything that was wrong about the WWE. I'm a big counter-culture guy so it resonated with me. Unfortunately it proved to be just an angle, and everything that was wrong about the WWE is just as bad if not worse.

[BYU 14]

A short angle, but still one of my favs from Georgia

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Mota

My favorite angle of all time is the double turn at Wrestlemania between Bret Hart and Steve Austin. Brilliantly done.

The buildup to that match (starting with the Survivor Series match) and the formation of the Hart Foundation that followed it was the best-executed angle I've ever seen.

There were probably bigger ones (Hogan NWO, etc), but the weeks of RAW after Hart's quasi-heel turn were the best I can remember.

[SirFozzie]

NXT Spoilers from tonight's taping:

Eric Young debuts. Rumor is it's a one time only thing, but let's see.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

NXT Spoilers from tonight's taping:

Eric Young debuts. Rumor is it's a one time only thing, but let's see.

One time and they gave him a title shot? He wrestled Joe tonight. Figured they were lining up tna invasion.

[RainMaker]

Actually seems like a smart strategy to have these one-off showings from people. Makes the tapings exciting and brings in some new faces.

Has Bobby Roode done anything yet? I believe he was at the NXT show before Wrestlemania.

[AlexB]

Watching WWE for the first time in ages, this weeks Smackdown is definitely different. Much more energy, a bit forced, but it seems like they're trying to do something a bit different.

Not 100% sure I like it, but hey, it's not exactly the same as the last show I saw, which wasn't the case previously. Small acorns and all that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Scary shit for Enzo Amore, stretchered out legit after hitting his head on the ring apron.

Reports from the hospital are good, he's moving all extremities & communicating.
But scary shit.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Scary shit for Enzo Amore, stretchered out legit after hitting his head on the ring apron.

Reports from the hospital are good, he's moving all extremities & communicating.
But scary shit.

I wasnt sure if that was real or storyline. Yes, scary.

[PilotMan]

WWE Pay-Per-View Temporarily Halted After Enzo Amore Suffers Severe Injury [UPDATES]

With video

[jbergey22]

This Styles/Roman match is so dumb. AJ the face getting help from them Japanese guys for what purpose? No matter what the WWE does right now they wont get the fans behind Roman.

Oh ya now it makes sense, to make Roman look like an unstoppable force while halting AJs momentum cause he cant beat Roman 3 on 1. Stupid WWE.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I did not like the failure to use Balor in that situation, there's only so long you can tease stuff & set stuff up without delivering.

That said, I thought the match was put together exceptionally well (from a road agent standpoint, not the bigger picture booking part). I figure the end result is {yawn} a six-man deal but sooner or later they've got to move this along to the inevitable conclusion. No matter how they divide the players up, they have to get around to game on at some point.

[Mota]

Well doesn't it look like they have turned Roman Reigns full heel now without actually turning him? He comes out all cocky now, and is up against a popular AJ Styles. He is getting booed by 90% of the crowd. That's a heel.

I guess they're afraid that if they actually turned him heel that he would start getting cheered? I don't know.

Then again, they have the Bullet Club guys attacking him, which would never happen if he was viewed as the heel.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I did not like the failure to use Balor in that situation, there's only so long you can tease stuff & set stuff up without delivering.

That said, I thought the match was put together exceptionally well (from a road agent standpoint, not the bigger picture booking part). I figure the end result is {yawn} a six-man deal but sooner or later they've got to move this along to the inevitable conclusion. No matter how they divide the players up, they have to get around to game on at some point.

It was a good match but overbooked like crazy. Just let them Main Event and they didnt need the interference or the two breaks. Like everyone didnt know they would re-start the match. PPV Main Events dont end in countouts.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It was a good match but overbooked like crazy. Just let them Main Event and they didnt need the interference or the two breaks. Like everyone didnt know they would re-start the match. PPV Main Events dont end in countouts.

I really didn't have a problem with it. And Steph one-upping Shane was telegraphed a mile off too ... but it fit the story they were trying to tell so {shrug} it was quick & painless so no real harm done.

And, honestly, the BC interference is part of the story right now. While I'd love to get the sides set & let the feud(s) begin in earnest, they still have that story to tell & they haven't fucked it up ... yet.

I don't know for sure where BC really sits. With AJ? With Balor? With Steph? With Shane? And at least for now I'm still interested in finding out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And Camp WWE was just bad enough to be rather funny.

[IlliniCub]

I actually enjoyed tonight quite a bit more than Mania. I'm a little worried that the show is going to get bogged down with Mcmahon drama once again though. It has me interested to see what happens next with the Bullett Club stuff and it's been a while since I've cared about a storyline and not just the matches themselves.

[SirFozzie]

Enzo Amore was discharged from the hospital after tonight's concussion. Looks like he dodged a major bullet.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I did not like the failure to use Balor in that situation, there's only so long you can tease stuff & set stuff up without delivering.

That said, I thought the match was put together exceptionally well (from a road agent standpoint, not the bigger picture booking part). I figure the end result is {yawn} a six-man deal but sooner or later they've got to move this along to the inevitable conclusion. No matter how they divide the players up, they have to get around to game on at some point.

I don't get why they won't commit to a Bullet/Balor Club formation. The fans seem to want it badly and it would immediately be the most exciting thing going for the company. Maybe Vince doesn't want anything overshadowing Roman these days.

[RainMaker]

Also I was wondering when the last time WWE had to cut a PPV match short like that because of an injury. Glad it's just a concussion, looked bad at the time.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't get why they won't commit to a Bullet/Balor Club formation. The fans seem to want it badly and it would immediately be the most exciting thing going for the company. Maybe Vince doesn't want anything overshadowing Roman these days.

Haven't they said in the past that they want things like that to happen on RAW instead? They usually show still shots of matches on RAW from the PPV and if they have it happen on RAW they show the full video replays as often as they like.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't get why they won't commit to a Bullet/Balor Club formation. The fans seem to want it badly and it would immediately be the most exciting thing going for the company. Maybe Vince doesn't want anything overshadowing Roman these days.

Well, there is the question of who sides with whom.

I mean, last time we saw AJ & Anderson/Gallows together in kayfabe (prior to the reunion in WWE) they were stomping a mudhole in him.

I'm guessing they linger on the point of whether it's Balor Club or Bullet Club -- and where Balor fits into the WWE version -- for as long as they feel like they can get away with it.

Another thing my son pointed out last night, the decreasing amount of face/heel divide (which we've seen be a thing in eras past). The BC attack was total heel stuff, AJ continues to be played with a distance from it (he was down while the attack happened, announcers even noting that he didn't see it, a clear sign he's supposed to remain a face). And the presence of another previous face now turning tweener that the fans hate -- excessively IMO -- makes that even murkier.

Then there's Balor, who is apparently considered a face but whose current gimimck just screams HEEEEEEEL to me ... that adds yet another layer to that puzzle.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, there is the question of who sides with whom.

I mean, last time we saw AJ & Anderson/Gallows together in kayfabe (prior to the reunion in WWE) they were stomping a mudhole in him.

I'm guessing they linger on the point of whether it's Balor Club or Bullet Club -- and where Balor fits into the WWE version -- for as long as they feel like they can get away with it.

Another thing my son pointed out last night, the decreasing amount of face/heel divide (which we've seen be a thing in eras past). The BC attack was total heel stuff, AJ continues to be played with a distance from it (he was down while the attack happened, announcers even noting that he didn't see it, a clear sign he's supposed to remain a face). And the presence of another previous face now turning tweener that the fans hate -- excessively IMO -- makes that even murkier.

Then there's Balor, who is apparently considered a face but whose current gimimck just screams HEEEEEEEL to me ... that adds yet another layer to that puzzle.

Why does it have to be 3? (not picking on you, just saying). Why can't AJ and Balor both form a 4 team faction? Have Balor stay off RAW until/after Extreme Rules. I'm sure Midcard Ambrose will have nothing to do by then...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Why does it have to be 3? (not picking on you, just saying). Why can't AJ and Balor both form a 4 team faction? Have Balor stay off RAW until/after Extreme Rules. I'm sure Midcard Ambrose will have nothing to do by then...

Oh they certainly could go that route ... and then repeat the same breakup storyline that has already been done.

I'm just thinking that, given the recent trend of WWE acknowledging history (although not AJ exit from Bullet Club), they'll work with that conflict instead of pretending it didn't happen.

[IlliniCub]

On a somewhat related note I caught the first episode of Camp WWE and I don't even know what to think. It was entertaining in a trainwreck sort of way. Pretty much how you would expect an eccentric billionaire's own cartoon on his own network to go. I have a feeling this was one of those things Vince thought was a good idea and no one had the heart to shoot him down.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by IlliniCub

On a somewhat related note I caught the first episode of Camp WWE and I don't even know what to think. It was entertaining in a trainwreck sort of way. Pretty much how you would expect an eccentric billionaire's own cartoon on his own network to go. I have a feeling this was one of those things Vince thought was a good idea and no one had the heart to shoot him down.

I think it entertained me in the way Jim Ross noted in his Tweet about it

#CampWWE was a fun watch. Art imitated Life at times.
TV-MA for sure.

The Flair bit in particular felt like a bit of an insider dig.

And Rusev with the tree was pretty good for a 2-3 second sight gag.

[Suicane75]

I wonder if I'm just completely out of touch. I've seen one or two people agree with me but by and large the response I've seen for Camp WWE was either that it was good or was so bad it was good. I thought it was effin putrid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I wonder if I'm just completely out of touch. I've seen one or two people agree with me but by and large the response I've seen for Camp WWE was either that it was good or was so bad it was good. I thought it was effin putrid.

Okay, out of curiosity ... do you normally find Seth Green stuff (like Robot Chicken) entertaining / amusing?

If not, then I totally get how this didn't work for you either.
If you do though, in that case I'm more puzzled by the reaction.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, out of curiosity ... do you normally find Seth Green stuff (like Robot Chicken) entertaining / amusing?

If not, then I totally get how this didn't work for you either.
If you do though, in that case I'm more puzzled by the reaction.

I've watched a couple of seasons of Robot Chicken and enjoyed it. I just didn't think anything in Camp WWE was remotely funny. I sat through 15 minutes and not only didn't laugh, but couldn't figure out why anything was supposed to be funny.

[RainMaker]

WWE Wants You To Forget This From Payback 2016

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

WWE Wants You To Forget This From Payback 2016

lol i noticed it during the show. it flashed by so fast. but thanks to WWE and their desire to protect Roman, now i remember it. i barely remember reading it during the show

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I've watched a couple of seasons of Robot Chicken and enjoyed it. I just didn't think anything in Camp WWE was remotely funny. I sat through 15 minutes and not only didn't laugh, but couldn't figure out why anything was supposed to be funny.

The Flair bits alone made this work pretty well at my house. That they kept hammering the joke repeatedly made it work even better.

There were some things that felt pretty flat, to the point that the phrase "so bad it's good" came up pretty quickly.

[molson]

The WWE is doing an old-school pre-Linda McMahon Senate campaign-style spring cleaning today. Mostly guys that were still under contract but that they haven't used in a while - Santino, Sandow, Barrett, Alex Riley, Hornswoggle, Cameron, Zeb Colter, El Torito. Could be more to come. And Ryback was sent home a few days ago after they couldn't come to terms on a contract, they'll probably just let his deal run out, it's up in a few months.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

The WWE is doing an old-school pre-Linda McMahon Senate campaign-style spring cleaning today. Mostly guys that were still under contract but that they haven't used in a while - Santino, Sandow, Barrett, Alex Riley, Hornswoggle, Cameron, Zeb Colter, El Torito. Could be more to come. And Ryback was sent home a few days ago after they couldn't come to terms on a contract, they'll probably just let his deal run out, it's up in a few months.

Some fairly serviceable talent on the list this time.

And under no circumstance is not keeping Dutch around a good idea.
Smart guy, knows the business well.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Some fairly serviceable talent on the list this time.

And under no circumstance is not keeping Dutch around a good idea.
Smart guy, knows the business well.

I'd assume it's more for Dutch's health.

The only big name I'm watching for today is Orton since his shoulder injury is taking longer than expected. Nothing major was lost today as Barrett seems to want to act more than wrestle. Sandow will probably end up in ROH or PGW as he's a good wrestler. Everything else is garbage.

[Ryche]

Sandow is the only one I don't get, he got over huge playing Miz's lacky, then they just stopped using him for some reason.

[RainMaker]

Outside of Sandow, I don't have a problem with any of those releases. Company has a load of talent and no use keeping someone like Barrett around.

Barrett and Sandow stands out the most. I think Barrett wants to do movies and asked for his release awhile ago. Sandow they just don't know how to use apparently. Can't fathom why they couldn't find a role for him in the mid-card somewhere instead of Titus O'Neil or Adam Rose.

[molson]

I think Adam Rose is the first wrestler ever to be double-suspended. He's already on the shelf for a second wellness policy violation, and now he's also suspended as the result of being arrested last night for domestic battery and intimidation of a witness. I don't think we'll be seeing him again.

[Suicane75]

I wish I could have a federation just based on those early NXT gimmicks that failed so hard at the top level. The Rose Buds, Bo Dallas, Geek Emma. I loved them all, and they all just friggin crashed and burned in WWE.

[RainMaker]

Bo Dallas had a great NXT gimmick. He was a heel who thought he was a babyface. They turned him into some dumb motivational speaker when he got up to the main roster.

[molson]

I really liked Bo's early WWE run, but I'm a big fan of lower card comedy gimmicks. The WWE needs more exclusive jobber types, and there's no reason they can't be entertaining.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I wish I could have a federation just based on those early NXT gimmicks that failed so hard at the top level. The Rose Buds, Bo Dallas, Geek Emma. I loved them all, and they all just friggin crashed and burned in WWE.

Isn't this what PWG or Chikara is? I only see highlight youtube videos of either federation but it seems rely on the gimmick more than the story.

I really liked Bo's early WWE run, but I'm a big fan of lower card comedy gimmicks. The WWE needs more exclusive jobber types, and there's no reason they can't be entertaining.

Shouldn't Saturday Main Event be the place for lower card comedy (do they still have that?) Right now it seems like half the roster is doing a comedy bit from the Social Outcasts, to golddango/Truth Breeze, to New Day, to Roman Reigns Tater Tots comments, to knowing that Ambrose's plant is named Mitch and RAW ended with him fighting a jacket.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Isn't this what PWG or Chikara is? I only see highlight youtube videos of either federation but it seems rely on the gimmick more than the story.

Heavens no. PWG is pretty much ROH, only booked much better. A lot of the same guys but the action tends to be much better as they aren't a slave to the TV format.

Chikara is goofy characters, but story wise, it's probably has the most coherent, well told booking in the "bigger" US indies. It's essentially a comic book come to life. In fact, some of my least favorite Chikara matches are their main events because they end up doing a lot of standard indy spot fests with guys who just aren't at that level. But the under cards of Chikara I could watch all day.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Heavens no. PWG is pretty much ROH, only booked much better. A lot of the same guys but the action tends to be much better as they aren't a slave to the TV format.

Chikara is goofy characters, but story wise, it's probably has the most coherent, well told booking in the "bigger" US indies. It's essentially a comic book come to life. In fact, some of my least favorite Chikara matches are their main events because they end up doing a lot of standard indy spot fests with guys who just aren't at that level. But the under cards of Chikara I could watch all day.

I've probably seen too much Chuck Taylor from both organizations which threw it off for me. That or those ant people from Chikara.

Speaking of ROH, they got a new set but I can't stand watching it as it's too hard to follow with practically no story line(or to me there is none). I like most of the guys on the roster but their TV access look of a show throws me off every time I try to get into it. Has it gotten any better?

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I've probably seen too much Chuck Taylor from both organizations which threw it off for me. That or those ant people from Chikara.

Speaking of ROH, they got a new set but I can't stand watching it as it's too hard to follow with practically no story line(or to me there is none). I like most of the guys on the roster but their TV access look of a show throws me off every time I try to get into it. Has it gotten any better?

Yeah, ROH upgraded their lighting and stage set up near the end of last year. But even though it looks better, there are a lot of problems with that promotion right now. They rely way too much on their deal with New Japan, to the point that most of their own talent is overshadowed. That, and in my opinion, just real lackluster booking. Their PPV on Sunday was, again this is my opinion, but it was shit. The entire Bullet Club thing is about 2 years past it's freshness and they're making it the main angle in the company now. The PPV ended with what was supposed to be a takeover/beat down but it was totally played for comedy. It was a complete disconnect.

Chuck Taylor does work for Chikara & PWG, but that's one of the things I like about PWG, they have a wide array of workers and the matches for the most part vary in styles. More than anything though it's just fun.

I'm currently getting back into Chikara after catching last years year end show and falling in love with it all over again. I'm about 3 shows into this new season and one of the things I'm noticing is how good the announcing is in working in tandem with the matches and the story lines. It feels like everyone involved, from the workers, to the refs, to the announcers, are all following the same script which is a real breath of fresh air compared to WWE and to an extent ROH.

[RainMaker]

Crowd wants to cheer for Rollins and boo Reigns but Vince just won't have any of it.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Crowd wants to cheer for Rollins and boo Reigns but Vince just won't have any of it.

Being on the west coast I can only assume this means heel=Rollins and face =Roman.

[murrayyyyy]

Smackdown moving to Tuesday in July and going live.

WWE’s ‘Smackdown’ Will Move To Live Broadcast On USA | Variety

Sounds like the brand split will be happening too with the move.

[Suicane75]

Would be awesome if they treated it as two different federations, and had a legit draft instead of the random picks out of a hat that they used to do. And for the love of god, please don't add another world championship.