Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Neon_Chaos]

AIN'T NO STOPPING ME NOOOOOOOOOW

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Only thing with that is I don't think we're going to see a lot of cross show booking. And quite frankly I'm fine with that. I really prefer the brands stay completely separate.

I have just the opposite reaction to it honestly. (not that it matters)

They're already booking-challenged. Cutting the options in half seems like about the worst possible idea to me.

Already we've had a Raw resorting to having two meaningless squash matches, which will quickly render watching it even more meaningless than usual.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I have just the opposite reaction to it honestly. (not that it matters)

They're already booking-challenged. Cutting the options in half seems like about the worst possible idea to me.

Already we've had a Raw resorting to having two meaningless squash matches, which will quickly render watching it even more meaningless than usual.

Dude, those squash matches were great. As someone who grew up in an era where TV squash matches were the norm, I figured they'd be something you'd like. Watching little fellas get the crap beat out of them is never not fun.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Dude, those squash matches were great. As someone who grew up in an era where TV squash matches were the norm, I figured they'd be something you'd like. Watching little fellas get the crap beat out of them is never not fun.

The depth of available talent is too high for that now IMO. I'm actually a bit insulted by more than the occasional use of the squash match honestly, it's as though they're treating me like I don't know any better. {shrug}

[RainMaker]

I don't mind those squash matches. They were setup to introduce the crowd to new wrestlers. One Nia Jax making a debut on Raw and Strowman in his first match away from the Wyatt Family.

[Suicane75]

To paraphrase someone else on another board, I'd rather watch Strowman kill a jobber in 2 minutes than see him go through a ponderous 8 minutes match with another midcarder. Give me a couple cruiserweight matches, and a couple of squash matches per show to help fill out the 3 hours and I'm a happy camper.

[RainMaker]

Not sure on putting Dolph over in that situation. Makes the new Raw belt seem bigger now. Would have been much happier with AJ-Ambrose or even Cena-Ambrose at Summerslam.

[Suicane75]

Yeah, Zigler is the last of those 6 I'd have gone with. Makes it feel very much like the midcard belt it was at the end of the last brand split.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The depth of available talent is too high for that now IMO. I'm actually a bit insulted by more than the occasional use of the squash match honestly, it's as though they're treating me like I don't know any better. {shrug}

I think it's just showing a complete overhaul with what hasn't been working with the WWE and 50/50 wrestling. Strowman probably shouldn't wrestle a name guy for two months and build him into something strong instead of bringing in Gallows/Anderson to job to the Usos from day 1 with 50/50 crap. They even used the jobber to give Slater a mic and bring back Rhyno. I'd rather see that then having to believe Slater could jump Mojo and then do the same thing. Do I want to see Slater-Rhyno? Nope, but hell if they can use Rhyno to give Slater a push why the hell not. At least they would have more than 3 storylines going on finally.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not sure on putting Dolph over in that situation. Makes the new Raw belt seem bigger now. Would have been much happier with AJ-Ambrose or even Cena-Ambrose at Summerslam.

Ziggler is best as a heel so if they create ego-maniac Ziggler then it's worth it. He's playing filler right now and won't win the belt but at least it's something new. Plus AJ lost clean so is he going to recruit for the club now? This still leaves AJ-Cena, Ambrose-Dolph and Orton-Brock for SD top 5 guys on their roster. Plus you have to figure out Miz v ? for Summerslam. Not sure they can go Wyatt here but why not go heel v heel since they are trying to change things up.

The past 3 days also gave something that the WWE has been missing, unpredictability. We have 4 "non-Vince" guys wrestling for the title in Rollins/Balor/Ambrose/Ziggler. Ringside interviews after wins and losses. New camera angles and less of Dunn's zoominzoomoutshakecamera views. In most matches the heel is actually talking like a heel to the face. Mid/low card guys are actually being given storylines.

[General Mike]

I don't have an issue with squash matches or any other use of non roster talent. My biggest issue with anything out of the draft is the lack of balance to the rosters. I get that Raw is a longer show so they need more people for depth, but they should have put the entire women's division on one show, and the cruiserweight division on the other. Or have the tag division be Smackdown exclusive. Having 4 teams on each show is just stupid.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Ziggler is best as a heel so if they create ego-maniac Ziggler then it's worth it. He's playing filler right now and won't win the belt but at least it's something new. Plus AJ lost clean so is he going to recruit for the club now? This still leaves AJ-Cena, Ambrose-Dolph and Orton-Brock for SD top 5 guys on their roster. Plus you have to figure out Miz v ? for Summerslam. Not sure they can go Wyatt here but why not go heel v heel since they are trying to change things up.

I like Ziggler I just think the timing of this was bad. He's been jobbing on the midcard for a year or so now and suddenly he's in the title match at the 2nd biggest event of the year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

No Way Jose has GOT to be related to Thunderbolt Patterson.

[RainMaker]

Enzo is so good on the mic.

[SirFozzie]

Mick Foley rules:

A BANKS STATEMENT: A BACKSTAGE LOOK AT THE NIGHT OF THE BOSS

In the aftermath of WWE title changes, I have seen balloons dropped by the hundreds, confetti raining down from high above, great displays of pyrotechnics and entire rosters rushing the ring to share in the moment of glory. I was personally given a ride atop the shoulders of DX, after my first WWE title win, in addition to having Mr. McMahon and his evil cronies ringside to witness the moment, adding to the grandeur of the occasion. Sasha Banks WWE Women's Championship victory on this past WWE Raw - a thrilling contest with Charlotte - featured none of the of the obvious pomp and circumstance of so many historic title changes, but backstage, was one of the most emotional experiences I have ever witnessed - in wrestling, in sports, or in life. Please allow me to take you on a backstage tour in the moments leading up to, and following the victory, and see it all through my eyes.

For all intents and purposes, my duties as WWE Raw General Manager were completed following my promo with Stephanie McMahon - WWE and the entire roster of ‪#‎MondayNightRaw‬ that kicked off the fist episode of this ‪#‎NewEra‬ of Raw. Unlike my first Monday on the job, where I scurried from in-ring introduction, to a series of backstage interviews, and finally, a seat with Stephanie at ringside to scout the evening's main event, I was free to hang out and watch the matches at my leisure, having no idea that a moment of great magnitude was heading our way.

Some fans love the spoilers - hints or rumors about what might happen during the course of a show. Personally, I like to be surprised. One evening earlier, at ‪#‎Battleground‬ I HOPED I would see Bayley as Sasha's mystery partner, but I didn't KNOW, until her music hit, the crowd went wild, and I rushed out into the live crowd as fast as my knees, hips and back would allow me to. I love being out there in the actual arena (or stadium) when great moments take place; there's nothing like the actual roar of the crowd, and being IN the moment, to take me back to the days when I would hitch-hike or take trains and buses to The Garden in search of that special brand of magic that only wrestling can provide.

On this night, I found myself in the male talent dressing room when the Banks/Charlotte match began, watching a small monitor on a table, with only a couple of my coworkers looking on. It's funny, because there are some nights when I throw my bag in the TV locker room, other times when I ask the writers if I can just put my stuff in their room, and plenty of nights where I have no bag at all; I just walk in and out with the clothes on my back…and maybe my ghastly fanny-pack. I wouldn't be surprised at all if, as the new Raw GM, if I get my own office in the near future. But, earlier in the day, I had placed my bag in the male talent room, so that's where I watched the matches - meaning that my Raw viewing experience up until the Banks/Charlotte match began, had been shared by one or two wrestlers at a time - talking with Mark Henry for a little while, Enzo Amore for a few, and AJ Styles (who had been summoned back to Raw for the non-televised main event that would conclude the evening) for a few more. The rest of the talent was in and out – hustling off for backstage interviews, matches, catering, or any number of places that talent heads off for to get a break from the scent of B.O. and Ben Gay.

Then I saw...something on the screen made me turn in my chair, looking for someone... anyone to share an observation with. I saw Seth Rollins putting on his boots.

"Seth", I said, "do you think the title might change hands tonight?"
"I don't know", he said. "Why do you ask?"
I thought about it, realizing I had no real evidence to go on - just a gut feeling, and said "Just a facial expression. Something about the expression on Sasha's face looks....different."

Rollins takes a look, notes that there seemed to be something different about Charlotte's demeanor as well, and says, "If Brooke gets tossed, (if Charlotte's assistant, Dana Brooke, gets thrown out of the match) I'd say it's possible."

Moments later, Brooke gets caught grabbing Sasha's foot, and referee Mike Chioda emphatically issues a warning. Rollins and I both yell out loud, and a little buzz starts in the dressing room. In what I can only compare to the "Come Out, Come Out, Wherever You Are" scene from "The Wizard of Oz", where munchkins appear from every conceivable hiding spot following the death the Wicked Witch of the West - the little guys were cracking out of eggs, peeking out of bushes, emerging from within flowers - WWE Superstars begin to emerge and gather around the monitor. Chris Jericho wanders in. Sin Cara takes a seat to my left. All three New Day members bring their positivity to the proceedings. Rusev rushes in from the shower, a towel wrapped around his waist. The action heats up, speculation runs wild, and the announce team brings viewers on the USA network into a commercial break - even as the in-ring action continues on the dressing room monitor. I give serious thought to departing the dressing room, and heading out into the audience to take in that unique atmosphere. But then I think about the atmosphere in this dressing room - unique unto itself, and realize there is no place I would rather be if history shines its light on this episode of Raw, than right here with the boys, the B.O. and the Ben Gay.

Raw returns live, and grown men who do this wrestling stuff for a living start actively rooting for this historic victory. Charlotte is as good as I've ever seen her - looking nothing less that ferocious in her moves and attitude. She hits a moonsault from the top rope to the floor that is awe-inspiring in its beauty. She shoves Sasha with a boot and the Boss takes a hard bump into the ringside barricade, giving Charlotte time to grab her women's championship and taunt The Boss. But Sasha kicks Charlotte away, the belt drops to the floor, and paying tribute to her idol - the great Eddie Guerrero - Sasha flips the belt to Dana Brooke, and then feigns injury. Referee Chioda turns to see the fallen Banks with the unwitting Brooke holding the belt, and in quick and dramatic fashion, ejects Brooke from ringside. The live crowd erupts and so does the dressing room! To quote Seth Rollins, Dana Brooke has been "tossed". The title change doesn't seem merely possible; it seems inevitable. The title is going to change hands. It HAS to change hands! We can feel it!

And then Sasha hits the ropes and takes flight, diving through the ropes...and a collective gasp of horror fills the dressing room as Sasha lands in truly disturbing fashion - her upper torso hitting the concrete with such force that her body folds up like an accordion, leaving her motionless on the floor. Suddenly the possibility of a title-change and even the match itself no longer seems important. As she lies there, the landing is shown in slow-motion three times – each one accompanied by another horrific gasp from the dressing room. Some of us shield our eyes. Chris Jericho, yells out before the final replay, "please don't show it again!" I run through several outcomes in my head for the possible fallout from such an impact - and none of them are good: a serious neck or back injury, a fracture or bruise of the sternum, a dislocation, separation or fracture of the shoulder or collarbone. In none of my scenarios do I foresee this match continuing. It's a diverse group in that dressing room - white, black, hispanic, Bulgarian - all of us hoping, wishing and praying that the woman lying motionless on our TV screen will somehow be alright. Xavier Woods begins talking softly to the TV screen : "come on Sasha, get up...get up Sasha." and is joined by others talking to the screen - imploring Sasha to start moving, or asking God to lend a hand. It's a group of tough men huddled in front of the TV monitor - former WWE champions, world class power-lifters, an Olympian - but none tougher than the little lady with the big dreams, who summons the will to move, to rise, to somehow carry on. But Sasha doesn't just continue; she excels - hitting her moves with precision and grace. Both women are at the top of their game, but fate is on Sasha's side on this particular night. She hits the back-stabber, and then the Banks statement and moments later, she is the new WWE Women's Champion. A wave of pure joy sweeps over the room. We have been through quite a journey together in the last few minutes - an emotional roller-coaster, where excitement and anticipation were replaced by fear, then relief, and finally euphoria. "Let's go!", I hear Big E say, and with that, all three members of New Day are running for the curtain that leads to the fabled "Gorilla position" - the spot where WWE Superstars make their entrances and exits - named in honor of WWE Hall of Famer Gorilla Monsoon. I follow suit - just not quite as speedily - and by the time I reach Gorilla, a line has already formed, eager to greet and congratulate the Boss.

I occasionally make it a point to wait right outside of the Gorilla position to congratulate a WWE Superstar after a title win or an incredible match. I stood outside the curtain following Shane McMahon's match with Undertaker at ‪#‎WrestleMania‬ - because I specifically wanted to be one of the first people Shane McMahon saw when he walked through that curtain. On random occasions, I've been met with applause after walking through the curtain from Gorilla. But in all my years, I don't think I've ever seen a crowd this large lining up outside the curtain to specifically congratulate one person. I have certainly never seen so many tears. While some superstars are beaming, the majority of those waiting for their moment with the Boss are either openly crying, or struggling with varying degrees of success to fight that urge to let loose the tears. Then, breaking protocol, her colleagues bypass the curtain and actually file into the fabled Gorilla position. I can't claim that it's never happened before; just that I've personally never seen it, or heard of it. None of us feel like we are breaking any rules; we all just want to be part of this special moment in time.

Sasha walks through that curtain, holding on to the championship title, amazingly showing no sign of injury - although she will admit the next day that her back is pretty sore - and this impromptu backstage entourage breaks into applause. Triple H is the first to greet her - a man whose vision of what ‪#‎WomensWrestling‬ could be in WWE has been so instrumental in her life. He looks into the Boss's eyes and speaks ever so gently to her. It's a moment of great tenderness, and I snap a photo to capture that moment - a photo that reveals a tear rolling down the cheek of The Game. I wait my turn as those who have known her longer, have seen her struggle up close, have helped build a new generation of women's wrestling, embrace her and thank her. I look over at Stephanie McMahon, standing off to the side letting all who have been along with Sasha on this bumpy, uphill, but ultimately incredible ride to the top, have their moment with the Boss. Her arms are folded, she has the warmest smile on her face, and her eyes are welled up with tears. When I finally get my moment with the Boss, I simply say, "no one has ever worked harder, and no one has ever deserved it more." And then I too lose in my battle of the tears.

There were no balloons, confetti, displays of brilliant pyrotechnics or in-ring celebrations to commemorate this title victory. But looking around this room, at the smiles, the hugs, the tears, I realize that I have never seen so many people so genuinely happy at another person's success. And I know that I will never forget this night - when the little girl who never stopped dreaming, who refused to take no for an answer, who made the words "be so good they can't ignore you" her mantra in life, became the NEW WWE Women's Champion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: Foley piece ... I'll just comment here with what I said when sharing on FB
A long but very worthwhile tale of one guy's day at the office from the one & only Mick Foley. Sometimes I wonder if he might have taken one chair shot too many (then again, he probably wonders sometimes too) but when he's on -- and he's definitely on right here -- the man can flat out write.
He walks neatly on the tightrope between kayfabe & shoot, leaving us to our own comfort level for interpretation. I choose to believe that there's a ton of truth here and while I'm not a huge Sasha fan tbh, I can appreciate the appreciation of her co-workers.
Thanks Mick, for sharing.

[RainMaker]

I like Mick Foley as the new Raw GM. But I think they need to get rid of Steph for awhile to make him work.

[RainMaker]

Also I know I'm in the minority here since everyone loves him, but why is the company so high on Finn Balor? He's good in the ring. But he's terrible on the mic. Outside of the demon thing he does every few months he's about as vanilla as they come as a face. And while I'm not all-in on the "wrestlers have to be big" stuff, he's just so much smaller than the top stars in the company. I noticed it tonight when he was standing next to Rollins who isn't a giant himself but made Finn look real small.

Am I missing something here with him? I looked up some of his old stuff and it seems like he makes a great heel. But I just don't understand how he can be the face of a company if they push him that way.

[Racer]

Am I imagining things or did someone run into the ring tonight while Seth Rollins was on the mic calling out Finn Balor?

[DavidCorperial]

That's what it looked like to me as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

trending stories say footage shows a fan making it to the stage before being tackled by security

[murrayyyyy]

Rollins played that fan interruption pretty well #RAW pic.twitter.com/VWHbhh3Afr

— Learn (@Laurencanrapp) August 16, 2016

[molson]

Alberto Del Rio suspended 30 days for wellness policy violation. This run has been a disaster for him.

Edit: And ya, the WWE wrestlers have really learned how to handle fan run-ins. The WWE does not want the workers to strike back violently, even though they're legally entitled too. So Rollins just quickly created space between himself and a guy who could a knife or anything else. It might not hurt to have more than 2 guys ready to jump in and remove the guy though.

[Scarecrow]

Am I the only one that hates the name of Finn Balor's alter ego? I just cringed all night when the kept saying "THE DEMON KING!!! THE DEMON KING!!!" Sounds way too much like The Demon Kane...

[CU Tiger]

What a weird fan run in.
Once pushed he didnt respond and after tackled he just sort of layed there.

either drunk off his azz or a plant...

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by molson

Alberto Del Rio suspended 30 days for wellness policy violation. This run has been a disaster for him.

Edit: And ya, the WWE wrestlers have really learned how to handle fan run-ins. The WWE does not want the workers to strike back violently, even though they're legally entitled too. So Rollins just quickly created space between himself and a guy who could a knife or anything else. It might not hurt to have more than 2 guys ready to jump in and remove the guy though.

And Paige is suspended starting tomorrow. Are we to assume rec drugs for the happy couple?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

Alberto Del Rio suspended 30 days for wellness policy violation. This run has been a disaster for him.

Edit: And ya, the WWE wrestlers have really learned how to handle fan run-ins. The WWE does not want the workers to strike back violently, even though they're legally entitled too. So Rollins just quickly created space between himself and a guy who could a knife or anything else. It might not hurt to have more than 2 guys ready to jump in and remove the guy though.

This is one of my favorites.

Wrestler TRIPLE H beats up a FAN !!! - FAN attacks Wrestler STEVE AUSTIN - YouTube

[JonInMiddleGA]

And Eva Marie makes three

[RainMaker]

Nakamura and Joe should be fun tonight.

[murrayyyyy]

Cena styles should have ended the show

[RainMaker]

The show has been pretty boring outside of Cena-Styles.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Damn this card has a lot of holes in it.

I don't know if you could trim this to three hours & make it more than mediocre.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Damn this card has a lot of holes in it.

I don't know if you could trim this to three hours & make it more than mediocre.

At least they got the belt off Sasha. She looked like the worst female wrestler tonight even when you include Marie.

[RainMaker]

The new belt looks like a fruit roll up

[murrayyyyy]

Is it too early to want smackdown to become TNA 2.0?

Last night was GLORIOUS.

Tonight is a RAW going up against MNF Jags v Titans so far with the us title being later in the show than the wwe title or the new title. Joe better attack Lesnar tonight to save this show.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Joe better attack Lesnar tonight to save this show.

Oh I figure SOMEBODY is gonna attack Lesnar.

Pretty sure it ain't Joe :/

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The new belt looks like a fruit roll up

I keep thinking there's a McDonald's logo on it somewhere

[RainMaker]

[murrayyyyy]

Dolph and miz just had the 2nd best match of the night during that kfc spot

[murrayyyyy]

Awe shit, its gonna be Roman jumping Lesnar now...

[jbergey22]

Umm Ok. Hopefully by having Lesnar destroy all the talent he will at least occasionally make a TV appearance for storyline purposes. Thank god Styles and Cena brought their A games.

[RainMaker]

I wonder if that was the plan. Looks like Lesnar caught Orton with an elbow right on the head. That's a lot of blood.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I wonder if that was the plan. Looks like Lesnar caught Orton with an elbow right on the head. That's a lot of blood.

Orton looked frustrated on the final shot of him as well. Perhaps it wasnt scripted. Kind of an odd way to end the 2nd most popular PPV.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Shane "save" feels like an audible, but Lesnar continuing to attack Orton makes it feel like was all a work.

[Maple Leafs]

I'm going to guess that it was a planned spot gone bad, or at least further than they hoped. They were going for a Cena-style overpowering win and Lesnar knows how to draw blood with an elbow, but maybe they weren't counting on turning it into a slasher flick.

And, of course, we get a Shane appearance at the end, because even when one of your veteran stars gets legit beaten to death you have to make sure the focus is on a McMahon.

[Mota]

Always great to have the roided up part timer make all of your main event guys look like total jobbers.

I'm impressed that they made Balor into a main event star so quickly. That match was pretty good.

[RainMaker]

Sam Bird on Twitter: "Just watch it back. Lesnar elbow legit KO'd Orton and cause the bleeding #SumerSlam https://t.co/XuZdYVryXK"

Lesnar connects on one of those elbows real solid. No way they planned that part. Either a mistake by Lesnar or he was shooting for some reason. You can already find images of Orton's head online and he's got a giant hole in it.

[IlliniCub]

Having 2 world titles makes me not care about either belt. When you split the world title you basically just create two intercontinental titles. That Cena-Styles match was out of this world good. Ending the show with 2 non finishes in a row was bad booking.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I've now seen that post-match pic of Orton's head.

#Ouch

Whatever that was -- accident, intentional assholery by Lesnar, whatever -- it sure don't look like a blade job.

[Flasch186]

I dont watch like I used to which means I barely watch at all anymore outside of something i read on here and go back and find it online to see it BUT seeing that I think that Lesnar ought to be suspended and finally they ought to give Orton the monster push he deserves and the belt for a long time.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Lesnar connects on one of those elbows real solid. No way they planned that part. Either a mistake by Lesnar or he was shooting for some reason. You can already find images of Orton's head online and he's got a giant hole in it.

According to Meltzer, the whole thing went according to plan, but they may have ended up with more blood than they expected. If you go in with the plan of using elbows to open a guy up the hard way, I suppose that's the risk you run.