Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[IlliniCub]

It looks like Balor may be injured and possibly needing shoulder surgery according to Meltzer. I also really hope the payoff of the Lesnar angle last night is not going to be a Shane vs Brock match.

[General Mike]

Lesnar and Jericho had a altercation after the Summerslam main event. HHH and Vince had to break it up.

[Suicane75]

Gotta respect Jericho. It doesn't appear that he fears anyone.

[RainMaker]

So Balor had to relinquish the title. What a disaster.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Unbelievably shitty luck for Balor

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Gotta respect Jericho. It doesn't appear that he fears anyone.

Wasn't there a story about him having (and winning?) a backstage fight with Goldberg back in the WCW days?

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Wasn't there a story about him having (and winning?) a backstage fight with Goldberg back in the WCW days?

I think that was in 2003 when Goldberg came to WWE, and it was less of a fight and more of Jericho hooking him in a front face lock after an altercation.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Unbelievably shitty luck for Balor

Dammit, been waiting for a year and a half to see him on the main roster, finally makes it and now this.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Unbelievably shitty luck for us

more like it

[Maple Leafs]

I legitimately don't understand the WWE booking sometimes.

Let me get this straight. For the main event of your second (third?) biggest PPV, you decide to have your part-time MMA fighter destroy another full-timer. OK. That actually does makes sense. A draw is a draw, and hey, it worked when you did it with Cena two years ago. So you book Lesnar to literally beat Orton into a bloody pulp for the ultra-rate TKO finish. You know it's going to kill off the live crowd and upset some of your fans, but you go ahead with it anyway.

And then... what?

Raw comes along, and the match is barely mentioned. Stephanie makes some vague reference to it, and that's it. No Lesnar -- fine, he doesn't work many shows. But also no Heyman to come out and brag about the finish, or whatever else. No follow up. Nothing.

Then Smackdown comes on, and Orton just shows up like it's no big deal, and moves right into his next angle. And then Shane gets to be the one to promise revenge, but only sort of vaguely and for down the line.

I don't watch the shows and only read recaps, so maybe I'm missing something. But... What exactly was the point of sending one of your full-time guys out to get his head split open again?

[RainMaker]

It's really poorly written. Has been for awhile. Part of the problem is they can't figure out what they want to do long term and keep changing things up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Part of the problem is they can't figure out what they want to do long term and keep changing things up.

In fairness, some of the changes are being forced on them by injury.

Not tonight, I mean overall. You think about the run of injuries, even if you just take Danielson & Rollins alone. That's enough to mess up long term plans just in & of themselves.

Another big part of the problem seems to be a team of writers (and really management above them) that doesn't seem to think any of it really matters. The audience attention span is longer than we're given credit for dammit.

[Neon_Chaos]

So good.

The Miz completely loses it in the face of GM Daniel Bryan: WWE Talking Smack, Aug. 23. 2016 - YouTube

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

So good.

The Miz completely loses it in the face of GM Daniel Bryan: WWE Talking Smack, Aug. 23. 2016 - YouTube

Okay, I didn't see that. You're right, that's f'n fantastic work.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

In fairness, some of the changes are being forced on them by injury.

Not tonight, I mean overall. You think about the run of injuries, even if you just take Danielson & Rollins alone. That's enough to mess up long term plans just in & of themselves.

Another big part of the problem seems to be a team of writers (and really management above them) that doesn't seem to think any of it really matters. The audience attention span is longer than we're given credit for dammit.

But aren't some of the injury issues their own doing? I was listening to JR's podcast today and they talked about how a lot of these moves that wrestlers are doing now are just not moves you can do safely. The move that Balor got hurt on is not a safe move. It's not a flat back bump. Same went for the women's match which had a number of really dangerous bumps.

I know it's a bit of an old way of thinking, but there is something to being able to stay healthy. If you're doing a dangerous move every night 300 nights a year, it's just a matter of time.

Agree on the writers. Everything just seems so lazy. The fact that the Brock-Orton match had no follow-up at all goes to show they didn't plan out the aftermath at all. A simple throwaway line on Raw about Brock being suspended from the tournament would have done wonders. From a storyline perspective, there is no reason why he shouldn't be in that tournament.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, I didn't see that. You're right, that's f'n fantastic work.

It's from the preshow on the Network and Youtube. They actually let the guys loose on them, and they can get pretty good when they're not following a throw-away script.

edit: It's from Talking Smack, not the preshow.

[PilotMan]

Ahh, saw the Miz bit. It was great. A lot of that was straight from the heart and a partial shoot to boot. He did a nice job of wrapping all that into the package for the show and bringing it all around in the end.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But aren't some of the injury issues their own doing? I was listening to JR's podcast today and they talked about how a lot of these moves that wrestlers are doing now are just not moves you can do safely. The move that Balor got hurt on is not a safe move. It's not a flat back bump. Same went for the women's match which had a number of really dangerous bumps.

Some, certainly. But I don't think it's realistic to think you could remove all the increased risk moves & still have a viable product today either.

And if you remove the higher impact/risk moves from the women's product, I don't think you have even 1/4th of the buzz they're generating, part of it is simply a function of the shock value after years of having limited move sets shown by the featured women.

[PilotMan]

The Most Interesting Wrestling Promo In Years Happened Last Night

[JonInMiddleGA]

The beauty of the Miz promo was that he made you believe. Even as I sat there thinking "great work", part of my brain shut down & was in complete jaw dropped holy shit mode. I don't know if there have been five better major league promos than that in the last five years, nor ten in the last ten. I've seen funnier, I've seen more complex, not sure I've seen many that matched for sheer intensity.

Or as one IWC site put it

This didn’t work because “it was a shoot promo,” it worked because it didn’t feel scripted, it didn’t feel fake, it was raw in all the right ways.

http://411mania.com/wrestling/the-mi...talking-smack/

[Suicane75]

I feel the exact opposite. I loved the intensity, and it felt like a shoot in every way except the verbiage. Way too many WWEisms that took me out of it. There were a too many things not directly said that would have made it a great promo but through all the yelling it still felt buzz wordy.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The beauty of the Miz promo was that he made you believe. Even as I sat there thinking "great work", part of my brain shut down & was in complete jaw dropped holy shit mode. I don't know if there have been five better major league promos than that in the last five years, nor ten in the last ten. I've seen funnier, I've seen more complex, not sure I've seen many that matched for sheer intensity.

Or as one IWC site put it


http://411mania.com/wrestling/the-mi...talking-smack/

It's why Austin, Michaels, and The Rock got over back in the day. Their promos were never really scripted. Just given a talking point or two and told to wing it. Came across much more authentic.

That's the one huge difference I see in today's product and that of Monday Night Wars. WWE let guys just do their thing and it was great.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Way too many WWEisms that took me out of it.

Actually, I think that's just how Miz talks.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's why Austin, Michaels, and The Rock got over back in the day. Their promos were never really scripted. Just given a talking point or two and told to wing it. Came across much more authentic.

That's the one huge difference I see in today's product and that of Monday Night Wars. WWE let guys just do their thing and it was great.

Didn't Austin tell a certain champion he was angry at him for holding back? Seems like only one of the champions watched/listened that. Too bad Ambrose wouldn't take the advice. What made the Miz rant great for most is that you know he's been saving that Bingo Hall line for a long time. Seeing the writing by the WWE staff, you know he came up with that one on his own.

If they want someone great on the mic on the other show they should give KO the belt. Then again, maybe using more than 12 guys/women when you have double the roster might help RAW also. Slater has been on RAW more than half the RAW roster.

[CrescentMoonie]

Miz could have been a good to great 6-9 month territory heel who could have drawn everywhere he went and be the surprise face to save the territory in 2-3 month stints.

[Neuqua]

Rumor: The Rock & Vin Diesel To Settle Fast 8 Fight At Wrestlemania

[miami_fan]

Anyone have a quick backstory on WWE having their own page on ESPN?

[miami_fan]

WWE Hall of Famer Mr. Fuji passes away

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Anyone have a quick backstory on WWE having their own page on ESPN?

It's just their new "vertical" as far as I can tell.

The crossover between ESPN viewers & WWE interest is exceptionally large apparently, so it makes as much sense as some of their other verticals in the past.
from an article that appears to have been shortly before the new formal section was announced

Glenn Jacobs, senior coordinating producer of ESPN’s New & Next Group (a 25-30-person group that focuses on new content plays for the company), said his staff has spent a lot of time researching what ESPN viewers are paying attention to on social media. They found that ESPN viewers are very interested in WWE content. For example: Last Monday’s WWE Raw, which airs on USA Network, was the most-talked about topic among SportsCenter’s nearly 26 million Twitter followers (The ESPN researchers look at hashtags and key words). WWE content, in fact, drew three times as many as mentions as the second-most talked about topic that night​: LeBron James. Jacobs said WWE Raw has been a top five talked-about topic over the last five weeks among SportsCenter followers on Twitter and a top 10 topic for 15 straight weeks.

WWE: Why ESPN is featuring wrestling on SportsCenter | SI.com

[murrayyyyy]

Well... well... well...

Never thought I'd be glad to see Trips back. RAW needed a spark and he provided it.

[Racer]

So is Kevin Owens supposed to still be a heel, a face, or a tweener now? Triple H didn't exactly pedigree two faces - He pedigreed probably WWE's best heel (Rollins) and a guy who draws more heat then anyone (Reigns). KO also seems to be getting more cheers then boos these days probably because of how well he's played a heel the last several months.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Racer

So is Kevin Owens supposed to still be a heel, a face, or a tweener now? Triple H didn't exactly pedigree two faces - He pedigreed probably WWE's best heel (Rollins) and a guy who draws more heat then anyone (Reigns). KO also seems to be getting more cheers then boos these days probably because of how well he's played a heel the last several months.

With regards to KO getting more cheers than boos, so did Michaels, so did Jericho, so did the NWO. It's not new for a heel to have the fans support. KO will still play the heel part but I think the options that will play out with HHH's are the most interesting part looking back at last night. Foley and Steph have been playing the good GMs so we now have the bad guy.

Trips made sure to give both Foley and his wife a stare down. The first one was almost a you think you can be a good GM compared to how I run NXT look while the second one was who do you think runs this shit look with a hint of I dare you to say something. Maybe the NXT invasion started last night. I know Roman and Seth were there but they rebelled against HHH as the Shield. KO never turned on HHH.

Now this is me putting to much hope into the subtle things. They announced Gargano and Ciampa are being brought up. Trips comes in and gives the head nod thing that they are always doing in their "Gloriousbombs". Seems like the old have someone else bring in the guys for me to steal thing. Probably forms at Clash of Champions and gives us a traditional Survivor Series match to come with Gargano, Ciampa, Owens and the next call up/s (either Joe or Roode {strike while it's hot}) or even Trips himself (go back to 5 on 5 match). Don't know how the other side forms unless AJ takes the belt off Ambrose with the help of HHH (HHH isn't assigned to a show, his wife is. Then just insert AJ in a SS spot and the Shield just needs another like Foley). Probably too much fan fiction there but it last night has the feel of an invasion lead by Trips in the near future.

[Marmel]

I can't believe I am participating in a wrestling thread (but that is another story), but to your point about NXT.... Kayfabe, William Regal runs NXT, not Triple H, no? I realize it is not out of the ordinary for WWE to just change this on the fly, but I like consistency.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Marmel

I can't believe I am participating in a wrestling thread (but that is another story), but to your point about NXT.... Kayfabe, William Regal runs NXT, not Triple H, no? I realize it is not out of the ordinary for WWE to just change this on the fly, but I like consistency.

I'm not a huge fan on NXT but I think their management is HHH = Vince and Regal = the GM/recruiter/trainer in NXT. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Triple H seen as the founder of NXT?

Triple H is a weird character as he got crushed in some match this year in WWE and appeared on twitter in a NXT event the next night like nothing had happened. Almost like WWE-HHH is a completely different person from NXT-HHH.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Trips definitely appears on NXT as some sort of ... iconic figure(head). He appears from time to time to give people the rub / show his approval for someone.

Whether he has a defined role in kayfabe I'm honestly not sure but his position of power is clearly acknowledged by both fans & the program.

[Suicane75]

Impact will air a segment this week that features Matt Hardy, trying to teach his brother to be a fighter, not a spot monkey. How will he do this? By having him fight a kangaroo. A kangaroo he calls "smoking Joe", whom he claims to be the ghost of Joe Frazier.

I am so in love with Matt Hardy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Impact will air a segment this week that features Matt Hardy, trying to teach his brother to be a fighter, not a spot monkey. How will he do this? By having him fight a kangaroo. A kangaroo he calls "smoking Joe", whom he claims to be the ghost of Joe Frazier.

I am so in love with Matt Hardy.

And I just figure they've embraced their position as a joke of a promotion. There's so little talent left on the roster at this point, I guess "comedy" is about as good a plan as any.

[Suicane75]

How can you not love what Matt Hardy has done this past year? I'd never figure you for the cantankerous sort.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

How can you not love what Matt Hardy has done this past year? I'd never figure you for the cantankerous sort.

On the whole, aside from 1-2 quick moments, I thought "delete" was one of the ten dumbest things I'd ever seen in the history of wrestling.

I wonder if the dividing line for reaction might be as simple as traditional response to/love for the Hardys. They had moments through the years certainly but I was never a big fan of either. I think that causes me to be less tolerant of their current foolishness.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Then again, I thought Vader was pretty much spot on about Ospreay vs Ricochet so {shrug}

[Suicane75]

Pretty neutral on the Hardys overall for their careers. I just like wacky stuff in my wrestling from time to time, if it's done right. I enjoy the hell out of the entire premise of the angle and how much fun they're having with it.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

On the whole, aside from 1-2 quick moments, I thought "delete" was one of the ten dumbest things I'd ever seen in the history of wrestling.

I wonder if the dividing line for reaction might be as simple as traditional response to/love for the Hardys. They had moments through the years certainly but I was never a big fan of either. I think that causes me to be less tolerant of their current foolishness.

New Day segments are quickly trying to take over all of my top 10 spots. Old Day, The Sheamus "feud", Sonny Boy, Big E's balls... I'm not even trying but those spots stick out in my mind when I think of bad segments in wrestling for 2016.

But who knows, I mean RAW provides us with Bo Dallas squash matches and Enzo giving birth to an imaginary baby before losing to Los Puerto Ricans.

It's not enough to make me watch Impact but I'll check out a Broken video or two if these are the choices the WWE provides.

[DavidCorperial]

To be fair, the Bo Dallas squash match is due to the fact that he is facing Bin Wang in China on Saturday, so they want him to appear as more important than he is to give the home crowd a feel good moment when their countrymen triumphs. They are showing at least that squash match over in China on public TV and don't know much more about who's doing well and who isn't so it appears bigger than it is.

[Neon_Chaos]

Just came back from the WWE Live show in Manila. It was awesome!!!

Chris Jericho is a God on the mic.

Neville is ridiculous.

Charlotte vs Sasha Banks was 2nd best match i thought.

Sami Zayn v Rollins v KO was equally impressive.

[molson]

I saw this from that show posted on reddit.

$ougal💯 on Twitter: "Holy sh*t ! The ropes just snapped at #WWEManila thank's to Big Show ! 😅😂 #WWE https://t.co/BSYtG1dy2t"

From the recap I read, it sounds like it was a very fun show

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCirc...anila_results/

[Neon_Chaos]

The rope snap was pretty much planned, to introduce a 15 minute "intermission". The entire house show ran about 3 hours long. From 8pm to 11pm.

It was such a great show, and the crowd was absolutely into all the matches.

[RainMaker]

So AJ Styles is the WWE Champion. Pretty bizarre thing to see.

[Neon_Chaos]

Here's Chris Jericho being a master on the mic, and working the crowd in Manila. We were just so happy that he was there, we just kept cheering him on and playing along with it. I think we were all smarks that night. The arena was full up to the rafters and I'd say that attendance was about 15,000 or so?

Chris Jericho's Promo (WWE Manila) - YouTube

[Neon_Chaos]

Straight on the heels of that incredible visit to Manila by WWE:

TJ Perkins, the Pinoy Boy, representing the Philippines, just won the CWC and is the new WWE Cruiserweight Champion.



Woowoo.

[Suicane75]

Happy for Perkins. Very happy for myself because god damn, if this means Omega Vs Ibushi at the dome, well I'm gonna need a couple of boxes of tissues.