FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[RainMaker]

If the woman in the car had nothing to do with the crime and was not armed, the vehicle owner should be charged with shooting her.

Retrieving your vehicle seems fair and shooting the person in self-defense does too (although I'm sure the laws are confusing on this). But you are responsible for collateral damage if an innocent person is struck.

[miami_fan]

That one seems like the greatest evidence to reduce (or defund orwhatever word you want to use) the police. The owner conducted his own investigation. During the investigation he was able to find the car and track the accused. He attempted to bring the accused to trial, the owner feared for his life and killed the accused in self defense.

We could deputized everyone with this power this time and see how it goes.

EDIT: I replaced the word "suspect" with "accused" "Suspect" seems too loaded of a word for this case.

[Ghost Econ]

I see that Race Wars has started again in Selma... did anyone let Dominic Torretto know?

[GrantDawg]

Here is the breakdown along with the announcement of warrants on the guys that started it all. I can't help but think if it were black men that started the fight instead of ehite men, the charges would be felonies. But my favorite line is from the reporter that sounds less than journalistic:
"At one point, a Black man attacked two others with a folding chair, as if competing in a professional wrestling match, before he was detained by police, the footage shows."
Montgomery riverfront brawl: Arrest warrants issued for 3 men in massive fight at Alabama dock, police say | CNN

[Edward64]

Nice.

6 ex-officers, some of whom called themselves 'The Goon Squad,' plead guilty in torture of 2 Black men | CNN

Six former Mississippi law enforcement officers pleaded guilty Monday to all state charges against them stemming from the torture and abuse of two Black men earlier this year.

Their pleas Monday came after the former officers – five of them deputies for the Rankin County Sheriff’s Office, the sixth an officer for the Richland Police Department – pleaded guilty earlier this month to federal charges in connection to the same January 2023 incident, which the victims have claimed was motivated by their race.

Former deputies Christian Dedmon, Hunter Elward, Brett McAlpin, Jeffrey Middleton and Daniel Opdyke and ex-police officer Joshua Hartfield were each charged with conspiracy to commit obstruction of justice, according to a news release from the Mississippi Attorney General’s Office.

DM was more explicit ...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...raid-home.html

They are accused of assaulting them with sex toys, firearms, stun guns, milk, eggs, alcohol and chocolate syrup.
:
Elward was charged with home invasion and aggravated assault for shoving a gun in the mouth of Jenkins and pulling the trigger - in what prosecutors called a 'mock execution'.

And the why ...

Prosecutors say that some of the officers nicknamed themselves the 'Goon Squad' because of their willingness to use excessive force and cover it up.

They were targeted after a white neighbor complained that two black men were staying at the home with a white woman.

Parker was a childhood friend of the homeowner, Kristi Walley, who has been paralyzed since she was 15 - and he was helping to care for her.

Looks like the Keystone Cops version of the vigilante cops in "Magnum Force". I wonder what they were thinking that moment it became clear they had frakked up.

[GrantDawg]

How many times had they gotten away with it before this? How many more are getting away with it right now? I promise you this wasn't the first time or an isolated incident.

[thesloppy]

Seems like broken Policing culture pushes the most INsensitive officers towards the most sensitive assignments

[Edward64]

A customer shot a perp (multiple times) attempting to rob a convenience store. Don't get between a big guy and buying a 6-pack of Miller.

Check the video start at about :35

Video: Beer-toting customer shot at robbery suspect 7 times | WOODTV.com

Newly-released surveillance video shows a Cass County gas station customer firing seven shots at a suspected armed robber, all while holding a six-pack of light beer.
:
The customer, who has a valid concealed carry permit, told police he couldn’t see what was in the robber’s hand, but he could see the look of fear on the clerk’s face.

Video showed the customer pulling a handgun and firing three shots, then another three, all while holding the six-pack.

It appeared one of those shots hit a liquor bottle.

The customer fired the final shot several seconds later.

Bullets struck the robber in the arm, back and face.

The customer told police the suspect fell to the floor but was crawling toward him.

That, he told police, is when he ran to his car to get another loaded magazine.

He held the suspect at gunpoint until police arrived.

I assume trying to using box cutter qualifies for below. Have to believe this was a justified shooting.

“In Michigan, obviously, we do have defense of others as part of the law in Michigan, that you can defend others if they’re in a situation that there’s dangerous force being used against them,” he said. “And certainly in this case, we’ll be looking at the facts in regard to that.”

[Edward64]

Short on details right now. In general, I agree with shooting at anyone trying to break into my house but this sounds a little too trigger happy. Assume the kid was making a lot of noise trying to open the door but hadn't kicked it down.

Parents react to shooting death of University of South Carolina student from CT

A University of South Carolina student from Connecticut, who police say apparently tried to enter the wrong home, was shot and killed early Saturday morning.

Columbia Police say 20-year-old Nicholas Anthony Donofrio from Madison lived on South Holly Street where the incident happened. Police say shortly before 2 a.m., they were called to the 500 block of South Holly on the report of a home burglary, and while on route, the call was upgraded to shots fired. Upon arrival, they found Donofrio deceased with a gunshot wound to the upper body.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Short on details right now. In general, I agree with shooting at anyone trying to break into my house but this sounds a little too trigger happy. Assume the kid was making a lot of noise trying to open the door but hadn't kicked it down.

A tragedy but the shooting seems justified based on the facts below. He didn't kick down the door but about to enter by breaking the glass.

Man who fatally shot South Carolina college student... | Daily Mail Online

The resident who fatally shot a University of South Carolina student who tried to enter the wrong home on his off-campus street last weekend was justified in his actions, police said.

Nicholas Anthony Donofrio, 20, died early Saturday after knocking, banging, and kicking on the front door of the man who shot him when he broke the glass window and tried to manipulate the doorknob, the Columbia Police Department said.

A police news release added that the investigation determined the shooter - who legally owned the firearm - was covered by South Carolina's so-called 'Stand Your Ground' law and no charges will be filed.

[GrantDawg]

If the guy is breaking in, that is different than a kid banging on the door. It is still terrible that the kid died for a mistake, but there is no way that homeowner could know that he wasn't coming in to harm someone.

[cuervo72]

So we've all seen the cop shooting the pregnant woman in her car by now, right?

[JPhillips]

It was a petty shoplifting issue. Take the license info and get her later. Cops need to de-escalate.

[NobodyHere]

Or maybe you shouldn't try to drive into a cop.

[CrimsonFox]

yikes. I mean it seems very probable that she did shoplift unless she was scared of the cops shooting her...which in fact happened.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It was a petty shoplifting issue. Take the license info and get her later. Cops need to de-escalate.

Well she WAS trying to drive away/over him. But once she pulled to the side of the store it didn't look like she was driving anymore. I can't find footage of the actual shot tho.

[CrimsonFox]

this is good coverage

[CrimsonFox]

found a different shooitng....this one is just weird....
like a suicidal woman or something

[RainMaker]

So he shot an innocent woman in another vehicle too?

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So he shot an innocent woman in another vehicle too?

i was thinking the other vehicle 's bullet came from the woman's gun

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Or maybe you shouldn't try to drive into a cop.

I dunno. Per the video (and another one in real time that I saw that was in real time), the first officer who was trying to open a locked car approached this second car and got in front of it. The first officer shot when the car moved forward.

Arguably, he should not have been in front of the car where he was in a vulnerable position but the video analysis indicates this was not out of norm as a procedure.

Basically, seems like unnecessary force to me but I can see the rationale with the car moving e.g. split second decision etc. The first officer should (maybe) be on the other side passenger window instead of out in front. Regardless, my guess is there'll be a civil lawsuit & payout but the first officer won't be found guilty.

Would be good to know if there is a history of "situations" against that first cop that would go to state of mind.

[CrimsonFox]

Watch what I posted, Edward. It's good analysis

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

found a different shooitng....this one is just weird....
like a suicidal woman or something

Yeah, when you draw a weapon, all bets are off.

It happened around Aug 19. I searched for "Alysha Duran" but didn't find anything about "why" she was like that. Wonder what was wrong with her.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Watch what I posted, Edward. It's good analysis

I did. Was there something I missed?

Also saw this one which was in real time

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...oli-rcna102982

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I dunno. Per the video (and another one in real time that I saw that was in real time), the first officer who was trying to open a locked car approached this second car and got in front of it. The first officer shot when the car moved forward.

Arguably, he should not have been in front of the car where he was in a vulnerable position but the video analysis indicates this was not out of norm as a procedure.

Basically, seems like unnecessary force to me but I can see the rationale with the car moving e.g. split second decision etc. The first officer should (maybe) be on the other side passenger window instead of out in front. Regardless, my guess is there'll be a civil lawsuit & payout but the first officer won't be found guilty.

Would be good to know if there is a history of "situations" against that first cop that would go to state of mind.

I'm sorry, but she assaulted a cop with a deadly weapon. Her family is not getting a penny. The escalation of that was totally on her.

[dubb93]

I’m just going to say that if that is what we are teaching our cops then the entire system needs revamped. Cop two should have been at the passenger side window so he could actually see into the car. He should also not have drawn his gun. I would also say that shooting a shot while both feet off the ground in a Kroger parking lot probably isn’t ideal either.

[Lathum]

From what I saw I'm with the cop. Don’t try and run over a police officer with your car and you won’t get shot.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I’m just going to say that if that is what we are teaching our cops then the entire system needs revamped. Cop two should have been at the passenger side window so he could actually see into the car. He should also not have drawn his gun. I would also say that shooting a shot while both feet off the ground in a Kroger parking lot probably isn’t ideal either.

So you shoot when you are under the car? When she stomps the gas and you are flying across the parking lot? Once she starts that car rolling, she is using deadly force. You shoot BEFORE you are killed.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Lathum

From what I saw I'm with the cop. Don’t try and run over a police officer with your car and you won’t get shot.

I agree with her mistakes, but I just feel like part of being a cop is controlling the situation. He placed himself in such a dangerous situation over such a petty crime that he felt the need to draw his gun just to keep himself self. If he places himself in a much safer position on the side of the car do you think he feels so endangered that he needs to draw his gun preemptively? I don’t understand why the video says we are teaching our police officers to put themselves in these positions. It’s like no one involved has any common sense.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I agree with her mistakes, but I just feel like part of being a cop is controlling the situation. He placed himself in such a dangerous situation over such a petty crime that he felt the need to draw his gun just to keep himself self. If he places himself in a much safer position on the side of the car do you think he feels so endangered that he needs to draw his gun preemptively? I don’t understand why the video says we are teaching our police officers to put themselves in these positions. It’s like no one involved has any common sense.

And if he is on the side of the car, and she peals out and hits five or six pedestrian then the cop is blamed for not stopping her.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

And if he is on the side of the car, and she peals out and hits five or six pedestrian then the cop is blamed for not stopping her.

So your stance is we shoot everyone that commits a misdemeanor that doesn’t immediately comply with the cops because at some point in the future they could commit a felony

[dubb93]

I’m just saying if cop 2 doesn’t stand in front of the car this ends with her arrest later in the day. We have her face on camera and her license plate.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

found a different shooitng....this one is just weird....
like a suicidal woman or something

i wanna go back to this bizarre one. I haven't found anything else on her.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by dubb93

So your stance is we shoot everyone that commits a misdemeanor that doesn’t immediately comply with the cops because at some point in the future they could commit a felony

No, my statement is we shoot anybody that tries to use deadly force on a police officer.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I’m just saying if cop 2 doesn’t stand in front of the car this ends with her arrest later in the day. We have her face on camera and her license plate.

This is where you’re totally wrong. First I want to state unequivocally she did not deserve to die for shoplifting. However, she would have totally gotten off. Crime being out of control is no longer a right wing talking point to show how liberal policies have destroyed cities. It’s real. I live in a very red town and we have a high end cosmetics store, police have to park out front of there because of so much theft.

Interesting enough I actually was at my cousins house last night who has been a police officer for 20 years the best kind of police officer you want lives in the town he’s a cop loves his job genuinely wants to help people he was telling me they literally do not arrest people anymore or lock them up. If there’s a warrant that they get someone on the other town on even, they literally are just letting people commit crimes people know that and now crime has gotten out of control, and we end up in a situation like this.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This is where you’re totally wrong. First I want to state unequivocally she did not deserve to die for shoplifting. However, she would have totally gotten off. Crime being out of control is no longer a right wing talking point to show how liberal policies have destroyed cities. It’s real. I live in a very red town and we have a high end cosmetics store, police have to park out front of there because of so much theft.

Interesting enough I actually was at my cousins house last night who has been a police officer for 20 years the best kind of police officer you want lives in the town he’s a cop loves his job genuinely wants to help people he was telling me they literally do not arrest people anymore or lock them up. If there’s a warrant that they get someone on the other town on even, they literally are just letting people commit crimes people know that and now crime has gotten out of control, and we end up in a situation like this.

I agree that punishment is too light for many crimes. We shouldn’t have the same people committing the same crimes over and over. It is out of control.

That being said I still stand by the fact that this interaction was not handled right by anyone and the cop is responsible for putting himself in a dangerous situation over a crime that they hadn’t even confirmed yet.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

No, my statement is we shoot anybody that tries to use deadly force on a police officer.

Should we punish a police officer for not using deadly force in these types of situation? For not doing what they are trained to do?

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I'm sorry, but she assaulted a cop with a deadly weapon. Her family is not getting a penny. The escalation of that was totally on her.

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

No, my statement is we shoot anybody that tries to use deadly force on a police officer.

This. She could have shut off the car and refused to get out. There'd have been time spent trying to convince her staying in the car was not helping. Maybe the talk would have worked, if not and she didn't get out she'd eventually be removed, lawfully as a consequence of her actions, not the cops. Instead she chose to drive the car forward.

The point of body cameras was to remove "the officer is making up facts to justify his excessive force" allegations. Worked as intended.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

And if he is on the side of the car, and she peals out and hits five or six pedestrian then the cop is blamed for not stopping her.

In retrospect, I can also see if the other cop was on the other side, she would be even more nervous. I wouldn't want a cop of each side (having to look back and forth), I'd prefer where I could see both at one time.

[JPhillips]

Cops shouldn't be trained to put themselves in situations where they can be run over. He's lucky he wasn't seriously hurt or killed. As dubb said, they have her picture and license plate number. Go get her later and add a charge of fleeing the scene.

Cops nearly getting run over and then firing shots in a crowded parking lot over petty theft shouldn't be SOP.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Should we punish a police officer for not using deadly force in these types of situation? For not doing what they are trained to do?

We leave it to the officer and his training, then revue the body camera footage and make a decision on how the officer acted. Kind of like what is happening now.

If they had let her drive off in her state of mind (not exactly rational and composed when one is willing to drive a vehicle at another human being whether a cop or not) and she ran over a child in the parking lot? The officer may well have been punished.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Edward64

In retrospect, I can also see if the other cop was on the other side, she would be even more nervous. I wouldn't want a cop of each side (having to look back and forth), I'd prefer where I could see both at one time.

Yes but the point of policing isn’t to kill petty shoplifters. If she gets nervous and leaves with him over there she just leaves. She doesn’t run him over.

The number one rule of all of this is your own safety. This cop put himself in a situation that only had two outcomes.

1 - she complies
2 - she gets shot.

Why would you teach your cops to stand in front of a car? Why would you teach them to create situations with only these two outcomes? That’s one of the dumbest things I take out of this. It isn’t like she was threatening anyone with a gun. Why create that situation?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Yes but the point of policing isn’t to kill petty shoplifters. If she gets nervous and leaves with him over there she just leaves. She doesn’t run him over.

The number one rule of all of this is your own safety. This cop put himself in a situation that only had two outcomes.

1 - she complies
2 - she gets shot.

Why would you teach your cops to stand in front of a car? Why would you teach them to create situations with only these two outcomes? That’s one of the dumbest things I take out of this. It isn’t like she was threatening anyone with a gun. Why create that situation?

Per the analysis video (at about 2:15), police officers are trained to "when 2 officers approach a car, they take position to give them the best advantage for observing what the suspect is doing aka contact & cover".

So it's not training them to stand in front of the car, its training them to be in position to observe and/or cover the other cop.

If a suspect is willing to drive away when a cop is standing in front of the car, its reasonable to assume there is a threat. We know now it was shoplifting, but who knows, she could have been wanted for something more serious and wanted to escape ...

... is it normal for a shoplifter, in a car, to try to run over a cop?

She didn't deserve to die for shoplifting but people makes decisions that have consequences. Just like that drunk frat kid that decided to break into what he thought was his frat house.

[dubb93]

Is this how you want your community policed specifically with the cop drawing his gun. He drew that before she did anything. Is that how you want your friends and family policed?

[dubb93]

Do you think someone should be able to point you out to a cop and have him demand your info while another cop holds you at gunpoint? Is that how we want to be policed?

[GrantDawg]

I can't quote, but the officers did not shoot this person for committing a misdemeanor. They shot a person that was in the commission of a felony. Once she put that car in drive, she was a felon using a deadly weapon. Her choice, not theirs. The fault totally lies on her, and it amazes me how people can overlook criminals actions and blame police for everything. There are plenty of times when the police are out of line and can be blamed for escalation. This is not one.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[GrantDawg]

Dubb, watch that video again. He drew the gun once she started to turn the wheel to move the car. And yes, that is exactly when the police should pull a weapon. When someone is in commission of a felony.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[CrimsonFox]

It is actually possible that she didn't steal and the employees just pointed a finger at her.
And thus her ignoring them was more motivated by disliking the racial profiling of them accusing her. I mean the us saying "she should comply and she'll be let go" thing doesn't always apply to black people. And we see over and over again black people trying to run away from cops and then getting shot.

It's too messed up to have a solution

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Is this how you want your community policed specifically with the cop drawing his gun. He drew that before she did anything. Is that how you want your friends and family policed?

This is not accurate. Again, per the video at approx 3:30, the woman turned the steering wheel, that's when the officers drew their weapons.

Its not clear to me if the car was running, but in neutral. I did not hear it in the analysis but assume the engine was on.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Do you think someone should be able to point you out to a cop and have him demand your info while another cop holds you at gunpoint? Is that how we want to be policed?

If I was not complying with the police after multiple requests, and I moved the car, sure. Perfectly reasonable.