Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

Gotta say, watched the WrestleKingdom 11 show over a cpl of sittings today/tonight. One helluva show.

And for total entertainment value I'm not sure when I've seen a tag team match I enjoyed more (the 3-way title match), that was just fun. Wasn't a clinic by any means but I had a blast watching it.

Quite likely the best overall show from Japan I've ever seen, one of the most insanely stacked cards I can recall anywhere.

[CrescentMoonie]

Most, if not all, of Wrestle Kingdom 11 will be shown in 1 hour shots on the NJPW show on AXS TV starting this coming Friday.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Frankly when someone is a X-teen time world champion its obvious they arent much better than anyone else, they just got lucky a few times. And fans, yes every fan, get this. Not just smarks. After a while your title is meaningless.

Disagree. Ric Flair is a 16, 18, 22-time, whatever, world champion, but he was also the world champion for the better part of an 8 year period. He had 6 reigns over that period. Hogan also was a 12 time world champ, but he also held the title for the better part of that same 8 year period as Flair, and then another 5+ year period in WCW.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Most, if not all, of Wrestle Kingdom 11 will be shown in 1 hour shots on the NJPW show on AXS TV starting this coming Friday.

I gotta be honest, I don't believe edited matches (which I believe those will be) will carry even a fraction of the impact.

The storytelling that took place in roughly the last half of the card, that's gotta be seen in full to have the impact IMO. These simply weren't matches that were about spots or even about finishes.

I ain't kickin' dirt, if the only way somebody see it is the AXS clip shows then that's better than nothing. Just thinking aloud ahead of time in case somebody watches AXS and can't figure out why they aren't raving like others have.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I gotta be honest, I don't believe edited matches (which I believe those will be) will carry even a fraction of the impact.

The storytelling that took place in roughly the last half of the card, that's gotta be seen in full to have the impact IMO. These simply weren't matches that were about spots or even about finishes.

I ain't kickin' dirt, if the only way somebody see it is the AXS clip shows then that's better than nothing. Just thinking aloud ahead of time in case somebody watches AXS and can't figure out why they aren't raving like others have.

Doubtful that they'll be clipped at all. They just showed the Wrestle Kingdom 10 main event, Okada vs Tanahashi, this past Friday in full. It was the only match on the show.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Doubtful that they'll be clipped at all. They just showed the Wrestle Kingdom 10 main event, Okada vs Tanahashi, this past Friday in full. It was the only match on the show.

WK11 ran, I believe, 4h 50m.
Aren't their TV episodes an hour? And don't they include commercials?
And they're showing it over 4 TV episodes.
That's why I'm expecting clips for quite a few of the matches. If I'm wrong on any of those beliefs I'll happily stand corrected.

Okada/Omega airs Jan 13 (and should fit in full)
Tanahashi/Naito airs Jan 20 (and should fit in full)
"The scheduled matches for the final two episodes from WRESTLE KINGDOM 11 will be announced at a later date."
AXS TV to Air New Japan Pro Wrestling's "Wrestle Kingdom 11" in a Special Four Part Event, NJPW to Air in New Time Slot in 2017

[JonInMiddleGA]

Up the thread, the discussion about match ratings & whether the circumstances matter.

Having now seen all the matches, I have to say that the 4.5 to 6.0 star ratings for the back half of the show seems to have definitely included weight for crowd, build, etc.

I can easily rave -- and have -- about the overall show and some of the individual matches but in particular I feel like Tanahashi/Naito star rating had to take the crowd reaction into account. Obviously it wasn't bad at all, but I don't believe I'd put it on the same level as some of what preceded it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And, on a separate note, what's up with the Kenny Omega tweets the day after? About how he's stepping away to assess things.

Storyline? A scheduled break? Or is he actually possibly making a move ... somewhere?

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

WK11 ran, I believe, 4h 50m.
Aren't their TV episodes an hour? And don't they include commercials?
And they're showing it over 4 TV episodes.
That's why I'm expecting clips for quite a few of the matches. If I'm wrong on any of those beliefs I'll happily stand corrected.

Okada/Omega airs Jan 13 (and should fit in full)
Tanahashi/Naito airs Jan 20 (and should fit in full)
"The scheduled matches for the final two episodes from WRESTLE KINGDOM 11 will be announced at a later date."
AXS TV to Air New Japan Pro Wrestling's "Wrestle Kingdom 11" in a Special Four Part Event, NJPW to Air in New Time Slot in 2017

In ring time, not including the pre show battle royal, was under 3 hours (2:52:35 to be exact). From the looks of it, the first episode this Friday is the main event only. At 46:45, I could see them cutting 5 minutes off of that one unless they run fewer commercials for that episode. Everything else easily fits into 3 shows.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

In ring time, not including the pre show battle royal, was under 3 hours (2:52:35 to be exact). From the looks of it, the first episode this Friday is the main event only. At 46:45, I could see them cutting 5 minutes off of that one unless they run fewer commercials for that episode. Everything else easily fits into 3 shows.

I'm fine with them cutting the preshow b.r. for sure.

I still don't see them fitting the matches without cutting some.
Some of the ring walks seem sure to make it in (like the Tiger Mask W stuff).

{shrug} I guess.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm fine with them cutting the preshow b.r. for sure.

I still don't see them fitting the matches without cutting some.
Some of the ring walks seem sure to make it in (like the Tiger Mask W stuff).

{shrug} I guess.

Yeah, I could see some of those. That match was only 6:34, so it could be things like the ring walks that get chopped a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to not show a match or two.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And, on a separate note, what's up with the Kenny Omega tweets the day after? About how he's stepping away to assess things.

Storyline? A scheduled break? Or is he actually possibly making a move ... somewhere?

More than likely shit-stirring and giving the reason why he's not going to be as prominent in the storyline (he's flat out stated he can't imagine being a "cog in the WWE Machine"

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And, on a separate note, what's up with the Kenny Omega tweets the day after? About how he's stepping away to assess things.

Storyline? A scheduled break? Or is he actually possibly making a move ... somewhere?

Didn't Suzuki-Gun come back? They are probably giving him time off to stay healthy for the rumored America Tour and turn Omega face.

[murrayyyyy]

It feels like 3 years of my usual threads combined into one gif last night...

[CrescentMoonie]

Okada vs Omega on AXS TV was uncut with full intros. I believe there were 3 commercial breaks, all 2 minutes or less.

[jbergey22]

Jimmy Snuka passes away. RIP

[CrescentMoonie]

Very happy to see Mickie James back on Smackdown. The women's side of things needed another worker, especially one who has some experience, and she looks like she's in as good of shape as she has been in years.

Unrelated to that, I think I'm going to make it to the next MCW show, Broken Anniversary. Matt, Jeff, Reby, Maxell, and Senor Benjamin are advertised along with MCW Women's champ Melina.

[Toddzilla]

I was convnced, watching La Luchadora, that it couldn't be a wrestler under the mask because of how awkward they moved and looked. Seems I was right.

[CrescentMoonie]

So apparently Jim Ross said this on the Busted Open satellite radio show this past week:

"We’ve already talked about Josh Barnett and I going to Japan and doing the G1 and doing it live on AXS and it would air in the middle of the night type thing but they would repeat it, so they would get a couple runs out of it."

They may also be airing the two shows in Long Beach before the tournament starts.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I was convnced, watching La Luchadora, that it couldn't be a wrestler under the mask because of how awkward they moved and looked. Seems I was right.

I think it was previously Deonna Perozzi, who is bar none the worst professional in all aspects I've ever seen. Her mic work would get her laughed out of a porn audition.

So it would make more sense for the character to not at all seem like a wrestler previously.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think it was previously Deonna Perozzi, who is bar none the worst professional in all aspects I've ever seen. Her mic work would get her laughed out of a porn audition.

So it would make more sense for the character to not at all seem like a wrestler previously.

I think there were two, other than the revealed ones on TV, and Deonna was the second one they used.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Okada vs Omega on AXS TV was uncut with full intros. I believe there were 3 commercial breaks, all 2 minutes or less.

They had it on again the other night. Never really watch New Japan but with all the buzz about this match I needed to see it.

One thing I noticed is they really do a lot of stuff that drops guys on their neck. Maybe it's completely safe but it's definitely stuff you wouldn't see in WWE.

[Neon_Chaos]

Ok, that John Cena promo has me fired up for the Royal Rumble. Was that as close to a heel turn we'll ever get from him? The cocky "I'm John Cena, RECOGNIZE."

[CrescentMoonie]

No, that was Vince telling Smackdown to bend over and take one since they beat Raw in the ratings. He's taking the belt off of AJ and sticking Styles in a Wrestlemania match with Shane since Vince still won't admit that AJ is a draw.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

One thing I noticed is they really do a lot of stuff that drops guys on their neck.

There were several scary landings in that show as I recall, and it does appear more common there than here these days. Thing is, I can't entirely tell whether they're moves that require perfection to be safe or if they're just impossible to do safely at all.

edit to add: The spots that have become common but scare the devil outta me are the ones using the ring apron as either an impact point or that involve coming down too near the apron. Those rings ain't made out of styrofoam and there's not enough padding there as far as I can tell for me to feel comfortable with those spots.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There were several scary landings in that show as I recall, and it does appear more common there than here these days. Thing is, I can't entirely tell whether they're moves that require perfection to be safe or if they're just impossible to do safely at all.

edit to add: The spots that have become common but scare the devil outta me are the ones using the ring apron as either an impact point or that involve coming down too near the apron. Those rings ain't made out of styrofoam and there's not enough padding there as far as I can tell for me to feel comfortable with those spots.

Indeed. When i was in college we did a Wrestlefest event (perhaps youve seen the video which included Sgt Slaughter in the ring and KoKo B Ware in the ring - Pi Kappa Phi Wrestlefest 1995 - YouTube ) and I'll confirm that. The closer to the edge you got the less give it had and that edge was horrible. Now im sure the WWE has better rings than the indie league we got ours from but still... That thing was an ass kicker.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Indeed. When i was in college we did a Wrestlefest event (perhaps youve seen the video which included Sgt Slaughter in the ring and KoKo B Ware in the ring - Pi Kappa Phi Wrestlefest 1995 - YouTube ) and I'll confirm that. The closer to the edge you got the less give it had and that edge was horrible. Now im sure the WWE has better rings than the indie league we got ours from but still... That thing was an ass kicker.

Until this moment I never realized that you and my son are now fraternity brothers.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There were several scary landings in that show as I recall, and it does appear more common there than here these days. Thing is, I can't entirely tell whether they're moves that require perfection to be safe or if they're just impossible to do safely at all.

edit to add: The spots that have become common but scare the devil outta me are the ones using the ring apron as either an impact point or that involve coming down too near the apron. Those rings ain't made out of styrofoam and there's not enough padding there as far as I can tell for me to feel comfortable with those spots.

I could be wrong and these moves are perfectly safe. It's just jarring to see the difference in WWE and other companies. I remember looking up some of the Steen-Generico fights a year or so back and they do a lot of moves that seem to be much riskier than anything you see in WWE. Package piledriver being one of them.

This was the one move that scared me the most in that match. Just seems so dangerous.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This was the one move that scared me the most in that match. Just seems so dangerous.

I figured that was the move that prompted you. I think pretty much everyone who saw that one was uneasy (or worse)

[RainMaker]

NXT is great at hyping up big matches.

[Suicane75]

I hope it's as good a match as it should be, but I have a feeling we're going to see a lot more sleepwalking from the top guys in NXT going forward. If you're a veteran there, just biding your time for the call up, there's no reason to kill yourself. The entire Joe/Nakamura feud was such a letdown, but I don't blame them at all. As a fan though, it's been disappointing to see Shinsuke essentially do nothing for 2 years now.

[Mota]

Wait until he gets called up and gets put into a comedy angle with New Day where they keep laughing at him because of his accent. That will be much better!

I'm pretty backlogged on my NJPW watching, it's great to be watching early 2014 before the exodus. I'm watching Nakamura kicking butt, Finn Balor at the top of the Bullet Club, etc. Awesome!

[CrescentMoonie]

Hoping the last I've heard about Cena-Styles happens tomorrow. Joe interferes to help Styles retain, Cena plays a part in Joe getting eliminated from the rumble, and Cena-Joe happens at WM.

[CrescentMoonie]

NXT Takeover San Antonio was pretty good, but not quite great. Everything was well thought out and the show really picked up with the way the Rollins appearance was handled. Good match with the women taking the necessary shortcuts and the main event opens up some interesting possibilities for tomorrow.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Hoping the last I've heard about Cena-Styles happens tomorrow. Joe interferes to help Styles retain, Cena plays a part in Joe getting eliminated from the rumble, and Cena-Joe happens at WM.

With Smackdown ratings at a peak I think Cena wins today, Joe goes to congratulate him, Smashed Cena. Build up for Mania.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

With Smackdown ratings at a peak I think Cena wins today, Joe goes to congratulate him, Smashed Cena. Build up for Mania.

I'm thinking something like that as well, I'm just hoping Vince isn't that vindictive about a guy who made his name elsewhere taking his B show to better ratings than his A show.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I'm thinking something like that as well, I'm just hoping Vince isn't that vindictive about a guy who made his name elsewhere taking his B show to better ratings than his A show.

I don't think Vince cares for a few reasons.

1) Joe and Cena are good friends. Trained together UPW. If Cena makes this as the call of who he wants to feud with, Vince gets out of the way just to have Cena on TV more.

2) I think Vince learned his lesson about guys who made their name elsewhere with Styles. He's carried the belt (and some could say ratings) for the past 5 months. That's coming a long way from the original plan of being a squash for Ryback @ Mania back when he was signed.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

NXT Takeover San Antonio was pretty good, but not quite great. Everything was well thought out and the show really picked up with the way the Rollins appearance was handled. Good match with the women taking the necessary shortcuts and the main event opens up some interesting possibilities for tomorrow.

Strong/Cien was a really good match, the rest of the undercard was pretty underwhelming imo.

But hot damn, Roode and Nakamura were freaking great last night.

[CrescentMoonie]

If I'm Styles, I might refuse to do the job. He carried Smackdown without Cena. He made Ambrose and Ellsworth a watchable timeframe for the show. Smackdown has been the better show, but the top of the card that draws the most people in has been Styles. There's no reason, other than spite or unwarranted fear, to put Cena over at this point.

I'm pulling for the Joe interferes to cost Cena the title and Cena screws Joe in the Rumble scenario so they can do WM without the belt being part of it. I'm also holding out hope for Bray Wyatt as the upset Rumble winner who challenges Styles for the belt at WM.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Strong/Cien was a really good match, the rest of the undercard was pretty underwhelming imo.

But hot damn, Roode and Nakamura were freaking great last night.

Roode's facials after Nakamura's last kickout were the kind of thing that will get Vince's attention sooner than later. I'm just wondering if Nakamura's knee was to throw us off the scent of him being in the Rumble match or the actual excuse for him not being in it.

I'm also hoping Balor was lying about WM as his return point and seeing him show up tonight.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

If I'm Styles, I might refuse to do the job. He carried Smackdown without Cena. He made Ambrose and Ellsworth a watchable timeframe for the show. Smackdown has been the better show, but the top of the card that draws the most people in has been Styles. There's no reason, other than spite or unwarranted fear, to put Cena over at this point.

I'm pulling for the Joe interferes to cost Cena the title and Cena screws Joe in the Rumble scenario so they can do WM without the belt being part of it. I'm also holding out hope for Bray Wyatt as the upset Rumble winner who challenges Styles for the belt at WM.

Styles is too much of a good for business guy to refuse. Get Cena to 16. Put AJ in a program with Bray or Orton for the next few months.

[Toddzilla]

Knowing Vince, and just because I'm cynical to this shit now, I fully expect Nakamura to debut on Raw as the newest menber of the Wyatt Family

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Styles is too much of a good for business guy to refuse. Get Cena to 16. Put AJ in a program with Bray or Orton for the next few months.

Sounds like Cena isn't winning 16 tonight.

[Neon_Chaos]

Oh sh*t. Roman Reigns' head looked like it hit the edge of the small TV monitor on the announce table from that chokeslam. That spot looked really bad. I cringed a bit.

[CrescentMoonie]

I feel like Reigns, if initially pushed as a solo heel, could have made a really good silent type working almost Strong Style who organically became a face. Instead the force feeding of him as the chosen one may have turned crowds off to him for good.

[CrescentMoonie]

Bleh. I guess we are getting the long rumored, and completely undesirable, Shane vs Styles at WM. Super Cena was old a freaking decade ago.

[Neon_Chaos]

And yes, Tye Dillinger comes in as #10.

[Neon_Chaos]

Taker got fat.

[Carman Bulldog]

So Cena vs. Orton at Wrestlemania? Or do we get something at the Elimination Chamber.

[jbergey22]

Well that was pretty much the worst Royal Rumble Ive seen in awhile. The Cena/Styles match was amazing though.

All of these rumors of surprises and we got nothing.