2013 NFL Offseason/Coaches Fired/Draft discussions-

[Logan]

This guy writes for the SJ Mercury News apparently, I don't know him so not sure how trustworthy he is. If so, it's an amazing haul for the Niners.

Tim Kawakami ‏@timkawakami

An NFL source says that the framework of the deal is that the 49ers will get a No. 2 pick this year and a similar pick in the 2014 draft.

edit: Schefter is now confirming that it's for this year's 2nd (#34 I believe) and a conditional mid round pick next year. I'm guessing that it could go as high as another 2nd to reconcile the two reports.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

Jay Glazer ‏@JayGlazer

49ers have completed a trade with the Chiefs for Alex Smith, tho can't be official til March 12. Chiefs really made a commitment to Smith

The Chiefs have never tried something like this before. Surprised they didn't hold out for Matt Flynn.

[RedKingGold]

Price is the 33rd overall pick and a "similar" pick in 2014.

Whoa, that's a huge price for a guy who did not get a serious sniff in FA next year. Very happy as a 49ers fan.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Logan

This guy writes for the SJ Mercury News apparently, I don't know him so not sure how trustworthy he is. If so, it's an amazing haul for the Niners.



edit: Schefter is now confirming that it's for this year's 2nd (#34 I believe) and a conditional mid round pick next year. I'm guessing that it could go as high as another 2nd to reconcile the two reports.

thats almost as much as we stole from the Raiders getting rid of Palmer!

[Crapshoot]

I think Smith is better than people think (look at his performance when he was Wally Pipp'ed by Kaep), but I'm surprised at the price as well. Now I'm curious what the 49ers (a team with 5 picks in the top 93) will do with these picks, given the rookies last year didn't get so much as a sniff in terms of playing team - would be great to get some DL depth, and a DB to replace Goldson. The defense could use more of a breather than it got last year, where 12/13 players got 99% of the playing time.

[Logan]

I think DL depth is exactly where those picks will go, considering this draft is very heavy at that position. Wouldn't be surprised if #31 and #34 both go towards that, but the good thing is with all those picks, they can afford to move up/down for value. I think they'll do a lot of that, plus make deals for 2014 picks.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Price is the 33rd overall pick and a "similar" pick in 2014.

Whoa, that's a huge price for a guy who did not get a serious sniff in FA next year. Very happy as a 49ers fan.

Just to clarify, the Chiefs pick 2nd in the 2nd round so it's the #34.

[Danny]

49ers should end up being the clear favorites for the super bowl.

[spleen1015]

It will be interesting to see how good Smith can be without Harbaugh since he didn't play decent until he played for Harbaugh. I have a feeling he won't be very good.

[Vince, Pt. II]

How far out are the Chiefs? It's not like Alex Smith is the savior, but Charles and Bowe are fantastic talents, and don't they have a pretty solid defense? Plus the AFC West is terribad.

[Coffee Warlord]

Bears tackle / revolving door J'Marcus Webb arrested for possession.

Jay Cutler will be a witness for the prosecution.

[sabotai]

Of course Smith would go to the Chiefs. That's where every 49ers QB goes to retire.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

How far out are the Chiefs? It's not like Alex Smith is the savior, but Charles and Bowe are fantastic talents, and don't they have a pretty solid defense? Plus the AFC West is terribad.

isnt Bowe a UFA?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

isnt Bowe a UFA?

Yes, but they plan to tag him if they can't work out a long term deal. Reports locally indicate that they expect a long term deal to happen.

[kingfc22]

Got more than I thought they would get so that is great combined with all the picks they already have.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

How far out are the Chiefs? It's not like Alex Smith is the savior, but Charles and Bowe are fantastic talents, and don't they have a pretty solid defense? Plus the AFC West is terribad.

Chiefs are in a pretty good spot. Six Pro Bowl players on a 2-14 team tells you all you need to know about the coaching. Also, they'll be moving to a West Coast offense that allows for pretty quick reads for Alex Smith, much like what Harbaugh did to turn him around in SF.

[BillJasper]

Surprised the Niners got that much for Smith.

[Logan]

Yeah I think the Chiefs ending up with the #1 is more of an aberration than a true indicator of the talent level of the team (although, that's mitigated somewhat by the fact that there's not a true #1 overall talent in this draft). They paid a very high price for Smith, which can't be argued, but if you believe Smith is the guy, the #34 plus another pick is worth it.

What could hurt them is the level of "commitment" they gave Smith in terms of long term guaranteed money. TBD on that.

[Pyser]

itd be great if the rest of the league just doesn't trade with the niners this draft. they have 14 or 15 picks, and cannot carry that many rookies.

no better way to devalue their picks than refusing to trade with them.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

tough spot for kc. not a good year to find a qb. overpaying for smith was probably the best option

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

tough spot for kc. not a good year to find a qb. overpaying for smith was probably the best option

Most were hoping the Chiefs wouldn't stretch on a QB. There's good linemen out there that fit the #1 pick bill. Best of both worlds with this trade.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Most were hoping the Chiefs wouldn't stretch on a QB. There's good linemen out there that fit the #1 pick bill. Best of both worlds with this trade.

Do the Cheifs really think they can win with Smith at QB? If so, fine, but I would would think signing somebody like Campbell or Moore and keeping the draft picks to re-stock the cupboard would make much more sense.

[Logan]

The play of Joeckel and the rest of the OL will have a big part in Smith's success. He was also playing behind the best OL group in the league when it finally clicked for him under Harbaugh.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Do the Cheifs really think they can win with Smith at QB? If so, fine, but I would would think signing somebody like Campbell or Moore and keeping the draft picks to re-stock the cupboard would make much more sense.

Alex Smith is a HUGE upgrade over what they had at QB last year. The talent was there last year, but no one could get them the ball. Defense was good, so there doesn't need to be an All-Pro at QB to see a significant upgrade, especially in the AFC West.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Alex Smith is a HUGE upgrade over what they had at QB last year. The talent was there last year, but no one could get them the ball. Defense was good, so there doesn't need to be an All-Pro at QB to see a significant upgrade, especially in the AFC West.

Precisely why you don't burn the 34th overall pick and a future pick on Smith.

Jason Campbell and Alex Smith are essentially the same player...game managers who won't hurt you but likely won't take the team on their backs to win you a game. Only difference is that Campbell costs you a couple of million on a two year deal versus a 2nd round pick and a future mid round pick...which guy would you take?

[Thomkal]

I think perhaps the Kevin Kolb trade with my beloved Cardinals kind of influenced this trade (done by Andy Reid as well). Eagles got a 2nd rounder and Cromartie for Kolb-who had a lot less experience than Smith does. And the Cards were rumored to be interested in Smith as well, so that probably drove the price up a bit. Can't believe the 49ers would trade Smith inside the division to a team that could only get better with Smith over the current crop in Arizona (though I still hold out hope for Kolb)

As for the 49ers having a large number of picks-Darrell Revis is rumored to be on the trade block with the Jets-maybe they give up some of those picks to get him?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

It will be interesting to see how good Smith can be without Harbaugh since he didn't play decent until he played for Harbaugh. I have a feeling he won't be very good.

Reid is a good QB coach and has a system Smith can succeed in. I think Smith will be a solid starter for the Chiefs and not a bad fit with a RB like Charles. Reid just has to make sure he uses his RB's properly.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Precisely why you don't burn the 34th overall pick and a future pick on Smith.

Jason Campbell and Alex Smith are essentially the same player...game managers who won't hurt you but likely won't take the team on their backs to win you a game. Only difference is that Campbell costs you a couple of million on a two year deal versus a 2nd round pick and a future mid round pick...which guy would you take?

Nope, Campbell sucks, Smith is far far better.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Danny

Nope, Campbell sucks, Smith is far far better.

I'd agree with this. I don't see them as comparable.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Chefs overpaid.

[johnnyshaka]

Interesting, Campbell's career stats are on par, if not better, than Alex Smith's yet Smith is far far better and they are incomparable?? Mmmmkay.

I know I'm not going to convince you guys but I'm just going to inject a little perspective and leave it that...we can agree to disagree...

Campbell's best season in the NFL is 2009 in Washington where he posted a QB Rating of 86, threw for 3600 yards, 20 TDs, 13 picks, with a completion percentage of nearly 65%.

Smith's best season could have been last season but he got hurt and never saw the field again (cause he's so awesome...sorry, had to) but I guess his previous season isn't a bad consolation. Smith had QB Rating of 90, threw for 3100 yards, 17 TDs, 5 picks, with a completion percentage of 61%.

Pretty comparable, no? Smith was a little more careful with the ball while Campbell completed a few more passes...a wash in my books.

Here's the funny thing, though, the Skins finished 4-12 that season with Campbell at the helm while the 49ers finished 13-3 during Smith's best season. How can that be? I mean the numbers are so close and yet there's a nine game swing...wtf???

Oh yeah...a running game and a defense.

Anyway, like I said, I'm fine to agree to disagree, just a shame to see the Chiefs toss away valuable picks unnecessarily.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

a. i'd take cassel over campbell
b. this draft stinks. the 34h pick this year is probably equivalent to a 3-4 in other years
c. chiefs fans would mutiny

[Logan]

This draft stinks at the top. Depth wise it's very strong.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Logan

This draft stinks at the top. Depth wise it's very strong.

I agree.

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Campbell's best season in the NFL is 2009 in Washington where he posted...20 TDs, 13 picks, with a completion percentage of nearly 65%.

Smith had...17 TDs, 5 picks, with a completion percentage of 61%.

I found a difference.

[RedKingGold]

I don't buy that the 49ers are interested in Revis because it would seem to go against their philosophy. They have a young, college-tutored head coach who I think works better with young players buying into the "who's got it better than us" mentality. Revis, who just wants to get paid, seems like an odd fit.

As noted above, I think it's more likely the 49ers stock up on DL and CB in the draft. I also think its more likely they will use those picks to move up in the first or second to get a rookie they really like instead of targeting Revis.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I don't buy that the 49ers are interested in Revis because it would seem to go against their philosophy. They have a young, college-tutored head coach who I think works better with young players buying into the "who's got it better than us" mentality. Revis, who just wants to get paid, seems like an odd fit.

As noted above, I think it's more likely the 49ers stock up on DL and CB in the draft. I also think its more likely they will use those picks to move up in the first or second to get a rookie they really like instead of targeting Revis.

Disagree, if the 49ers had a healthy Revis this season they win the super bowl, probably pretty easily.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Danny

Disagree, if the 49ers had a healthy Revis this season they win the super bowl, probably pretty easily.

Most likely. But you never know what future years hold. You're likely paying $15MM+ for 5 or 6 years for one CB who is now coming off an injury and has a history of causing trouble in the locker room. That's just a monster commitment and you need to account for more than just on-field performance when making it.

[Danny]

Then dont sign him to a long term deal. Let him play the season and then franchise him next year and then let him go. 2 seasons of Revis is worth a second rounder in their current situation.

[Logan]

Dude, Revis doesn't play that game. He'll sit and laugh.

And also he can't be franchised next year, it's in his contract. That is another one of Mike Tanenbaum's fuck ups that left the Jets without any leverage in the first place.

[stevew]

Maybe the Niners can just hold out long enough and get Nnamdi for free. Give him the opportunity to reestablish value.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by stevew

Maybe the Niners can just hold out long enough and get Nnamdi for free. Give him the opportunity to reestablish value.

Looking at the 49ers FA/trade record, this is the most likely scenario. The team only signs veterans who appear over the hill or past their prime on short-term deals. Carlos Rogers, Randy Moss, Mario Manningham, Braylon Edwards, Brandon Jacobs, etc. San Francisco has not made a signing or trade for a starter since Nate Clements (and that worked out fantastic!)

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Logan

Dude, Revis doesn't play that game. He'll sit and laugh.

And also he can't be franchised next year, it's in his contract. That is another one of Mike Tanenbaum's fuck ups that left the Jets without any leverage in the first place.

Yeah, there's no chance I'd waste my time on him when he's coming off of an injury.

[judicial clerk]

Nice move by the niners if true. Smith could have success in KC if Reid remembers to run the ball every once in a while. Niners need to use a couple of those picks and find themselves a backup QB who can run the system Kaepernick runs. Kaep will miss snaps because of injury, guaranteed.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Campbell's best season in the NFL is 2009 in Washington where he posted a QB Rating of 86, threw for 3600 yards, 20 TDs, 13 picks, with a completion percentage of nearly 65%.

Smith's best season could have been last season but he got hurt and never saw the field again (cause he's so awesome...sorry, had to) but I guess his previous season isn't a bad consolation. Smith had QB Rating of 90, threw for 3100 yards, 17 TDs, 5 picks, with a completion percentage of 61%.

.

Uh that's an 8 interception difference. That's huge IMO.

[Blackadar]

Jason Campbell threw for 20tds and 15 picks in 2009. He's known as a dink-and-dunk passer who throws far too often to the outlet guy, but can't complete anything down the field. He's also thrown about 200 passes combined the last two years for a QB rating of about 80. He's also 31 years old.

Alex Smith very well may be a product of the system, but in the last two years the guy has put up the ball about 650 times with a QB rating of around 95. His QB rating has gone up in each of the last 4 years and he will turn 29 in a couple of months. So while Smith might be comparable to Jason Campbell back in 2009 (with the clear edge to Smith), this is 2013 and Smith's stock is up while Campbell's is way down. As such, that's a bad comparison for the upcoming season.

He may be Matt Cassell 2.0. He may be Jason Campbell 2.0. Or he may be Rich Gannon/Chris Chandler - a guy who doesn't get it until later in his career and has many very productive seasons. The Chiefs have the core of a potentially very good team, so it's worth taking a flier on Smith for a 2nd round pick to see just how good they could be. If the team didn't already have a decent core of players, then it's a bad deal. But they do and the payoff could be huge. So if they don't like the guys coming out of college, then this is the best option available and they didn't break the bank doing it.

[Logan]

Smith is light years ahead of Campbell.

[albionmoonlight]

He's the same age as Brandon Weedon, who was the 22nd overall pick last season. I think that the price was pretty fair. Yeah, the 49ers probably "won" the trade. But both teams got what they wanted. Really more of a win/win.

[Arles]

Jermichael Finley, aka Leon from the old Budweiser commercials, wants to make sure everyone knows he's going to get his:

"I'd have to walk for sure, meaning I couldn't take a pay cut," he told ESPN."I'm not that guy. Other than that, taking a pay cut or restructuring doesn't sound good to me at this time. I like my deal."

He was an extreme disappointment last season and is due to make $8.25 million this year in salary and a roster bonus.

Jermichael Finley of Green Bay Packers says he won't accept pay cut - ESPN

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Arles

Jermichael Finley, aka Leon from the old Budweiser commercials, wants to make sure everyone knows he's going to get his:


He was an extreme disappointment last season and is due to make $8.25 million this year in salary and a roster bonus.

Jermichael Finley of Green Bay Packers says he won't accept pay cut - ESPN

Well, he will take a pay cut. No pay for you!