Werewolf LXI - Ocean's Eleven (GAME OVER, SEE PAGE 19 FOR RESULT.)

[Lathum]

Render, you need to calm down. You are aproaching Blade status and he almost ruined Werewolf for all of us because he turned so many people off with the same piss poor attitude you have.

I'm sorry you take it so personaly when I point out facts or theories about you that you don't agree with, but if you don't realize thats the nature of the game then maybe you need to take some time off from playing.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Telle

Getting a bit sensitive?

I only pointed out the possibility of you being the wolf duke because I felt that it would be a mistake putting you into the 100% trusted category for being the duke when there exists the possibility of a wolf duke. But as far as I'm concerned, that just means that you're not any more cleared than the rest of us.

I think its more the fact that the chance of having an EVIL duke without a GOOD one is pretty much non existant. it would give the wolves an unfair advantage. So there lies the real rub in this. These two are clinging to this theory that the only duke in this game is the bad one, which just doesn't make ANY sense.

If there is an evil there MUST be a good one, though if there is a good there doesn't HAVE to be a bad one, the EVIL duke is the rare item in this whole scenario, but instead of realizing that they assume the most improbably case is actually true.

It gets tiring watching Lathum knaw on random theories with no basis beyond his gut feeling and worse seeing BK line up like a prize sheep and follow along. its been shown that BK's stubbornness gets villagers killed in the past, why should his judgement be trusted in ANY form in this situation?

I've given just as equally valid and plausible reasons for what I did, but who does everyone trust? Lathum. Why? he knows nothing more than I do at this point. Why are we blindly trusting his argument?

THINK people. for christs sake already.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

On night one, I looked at Chief Rum and got a weird result. rogue. I assume that is the event that changed me from arrogant seer to seer. I have not found a wolf. I can clear two people though....NIght 2 I looked at Barkeep. Night 3 I looked at Telle. both are villagers

you just tore down my world

[jeheinz72]

Barkeep49 - NTN cleared as villager
Claphamsa - Likely cleared as veteran
jeheinz72
RendeR - Likely cleared as Duke
Telle - NTN cleared as villager
SnDvls
Path12
ntndeacon - Likely cleared as Seer
Anxiety
Lathum - Likely cleared as BG

I know I have little to prove it with, but I'm a villager folks. Anxiety, Path and SnDvls, thems your wolves

Vote Anxiety

Time to bring this one home and cut the crap.

[Telle]

Now see, I've pretty much assumed that PurdueBrad picked which rolls were in the game randomly. So I don't think that you can be certain that there wouldn't be an evil duke without a good duke.

[ntndeacon]

and by the way there is no other seer. we started the game with only me as an arrogant seer.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Render, you need to calm down. You are aproaching Blade status and he almost ruined Werewolf for all of us because he turned so many people off with the same piss poor attitude you have.

I'm sorry you take it so personaly when I point out facts or theories about you that you don't agree with, but if you don't realize thats the nature of the game then maybe you need to take some time off from playing.

I agree, breathe deep man, I also a=gree with him that this vendeta is idiotic, there is no reason to think hes a bad duke other than a poor choice of a defelction! we need to get the bad guys not fight!

[jeheinz72]

I can understand where RendeR is coming from. He duked, he tried to get a baddie and missed. It happens. I frankly think the fact that the real duke didn't come out and flip it to RendeR is a very strong case that RendeR is the good duke himself. It at the *very least* outweighs the conveluted argument that there must be a Bad Duke and no Good Duke.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

and by the way there is no other seer. we started the game with only me as an arrogant seer.

how do you know?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I can understand where RendeR is coming from. He duked, he tried to get a baddie and missed. It happens. I frankly think the fact that the real duke didn't come out and flip it to RendeR is a very strong case that RendeR is the good duke himself. It at the *very least* outweighs the conveluted argument that there must be a Bad Duke and no Good Duke.

Weather or not you agree there is a second duke is irrelavent. The possibility exists and IMO we need to consider it a possibility.

My point is Render can disagree all he wants to with me and BK, but there is a correct and civil way to do it. Dropping the F bomb and calling people mules is not the correct way to do it.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Render, you need to calm down. You are aproaching Blade status and he almost ruined Werewolf for all of us because he turned so many people off with the same piss poor attitude you have.

I'm sorry you take it so personaly when I point out facts or theories about you that you don't agree with, but if you don't realize thats the nature of the game then maybe you need to take some time off from playing.

You're not pointing out facts, you're point out YOUR OPINION.

The Only fact in this is that the rules allow for an evil duke to exist. it ALSO allows for the normal duke to exist.

Thats the ONLY fact. So its a 50/50 guess you have going. At least have the integrity to admit you have NOTHING on me besides a 50/50 split.

I'm sick to death of you touting your opinions as "fact". You hounded me yesterday and pushed your OPINION as fact all day.

Can you honestly sit there and expect us all to believe there is ONLY an evil duke in this game? Go back through the games and count up how many times the Wolves have had such a HUGE advantage. I've gone through 14 thus far and found...GASP!...none.

It makes FAR more sense that if there is only one duke that its the good side. And if there are two I'd already be dead. So where does that leave your theory?

As for your comment about me acting like someone else, perhaps its YOU that should look in the mirror and say, "Gee why do I piss people off so regularly?" perhaps YOU need a break.

[ntndeacon]

I know there is no other seer, because I was told this, by the voices in my head that clears us all. (i.e. our beloved leader Brad)

[Lathum]

as far as I know you are the only one I have "pissed off" and you are the one slinging insults, not me.

And it is a fact that it is possible there could only be 1 duke in the game

[claphamsa]

bit that i subscibe to this but do we believe NTN? it could be a ply by the wolves....

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I know there is no other seer, because I was told this, by the voices in my head that clears us all. (i.e. our beloved leader Brad)

good reason!~

[Telle]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

bit that i subscibe to this but do we believe NTN? it could be a ply by the wolves....

Well he got me right And we KNOW that there is a previously-arrogant seer in the game.. and so there would be a counter reveal if he was lying.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Weather or not you agree there is a second duke is irrelavent. The possibility exists and IMO we need to consider it a possibility.

My point is Render can disagree all he wants to with me and BK, but there is a correct and civil way to do it. Dropping the F bomb and calling people mules is not the correct way to do it.

I don't agree with you on the duke-issue, but I do agree civility is preffered. With that said, I think all this talk is getting us WAY off-topic and we should focus on this new list provided by NTN.

Wouldn't you agree that we're MUCH MUCH more likely to find a wolf in the non-cleared folks there than we are on this 1-duke hunch?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Telle

Well he got me right And we KNOW that there is a previously-arrogant seer in the game.. and so there would be a counter reveal if he was lying.

Exactly and I'd encourage any counter-reveal to happen, since we should be able to get us to such a small list anyhow (and peg a wolf) that even if he dies we should be ok.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Wouldn't you agree that we're MUCH MUCH more likely to find a wolf in the non-cleared folks there than we are on this 1-duke hunch?

of course

[ntndeacon]

I don't have a preference on the ones left really. So here goes a pretty much stab in the dark.

Vote SnDvls

[Lathum]

I say sndvls or Path.

Vote SNDVLS

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Lathum

of course

So then let's just drop it for now and vote out one of the folks on the new list.

[RendeR]

I apologize to everyone,(yes even YOU lathum) I'm extremely tired, my children are sick and I'm getting there too and frankly sitting hear reading continuous BS accusations with nothing to support it really pissed me off this morning.

I think my main beef is the fact that when you consider everything, 9 times out of ten the most obvious answer is right, but instead of being right 90% lathum choose the underdog choice damn near every time, and that frustrates the shit out of me because it wastes entire days of game time as he pushes his opinion and comes up empty.


And what makes that 10x worse is that most of the regulars will defer to his opinion on most occasions rather than question him. Which simply compounds an already bad situation.

I'm gonna log off for now. I thank those that at last posted that they understood what I've been trying to say all along. its good to know not everyone sniffs an idea and decides its gospel without given credibility to other EQUALLY plausible possibilities.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Exactly and I'd encourage any counter-reveal to happen, since we should be able to get us to such a small list anyhow (and peg a wolf) that even if he dies we should be ok.

Actually I was hoping a wolf would be silly enough to try to reveal first, I almost waited to reveal til this evening giving them plenty of time, if I had seen someone claim to be seer, they woulda had my vote.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

as far as I know you are the only one I have "pissed off" and you are the one slinging insults, not me.

And it is a fact that it is possible there could only be 1 duke in the game

I want you to admit you have nothing to go on but your personal choice. Why can't you at least be that honest?

[jeheinz72]

Unvote Anxiety
Vote SnDvls

I had only voted Anx off that list, I have no preference.

[RendeR]

I'll come back later on once I get settled in at work.


VOTE SNDVLS

[Telle]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I don't have a preference on the ones left really. So here goes a pretty much stab in the dark.

Vote SnDvls

I'll follow suit since I think we need to vote in a block.

VOTE SNDVLS

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It's been stated that the bad guys don't know what roles aren't in the game so it would be a pretty unneccesary risk to make this play here as a wolf.

Where was that stated? I must have missed that.

[Lathum]

Apology accepted.

I know just as much as anyone that it is frustrating when someone has a theory about you and goes after you like a pitbull. CR does it to me all the time.

When I have a theory, even if it's a longshot I persue it. Wheater others choose to follow is out of my control. Unfortuanatly you need to break some eggs to make an omlette in this game and it sucks when you are the egg.

I will admit that lately it seems Render has been on the other end of some of my theories, it really isn't personal, just a coincidence.

[SnDvls]

vote no lynch

boy that was a big pile on
I guess I'll be the sacrafice if it helps the village win.

time to sign up for pass's game now.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

Where was that stated? I must have missed that.

i saw it somewhere. I'll have to go back and look

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I want you to admit you have nothing to go on but your personal choice. Why can't you at least be that honest?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Lathum

i saw it somewhere. I'll have to go back and look

Yes, please provide a quote and post # ..because I'm pretty sure this WASN'T stated.

[PurdueBrad]

Current vote tally (as of 632)-

SnDvls- ntnDeacon (620), Lathum (621), Heinz (626), RendeR (627), Telle (628)

no lynch- SnDvls (631)

Still to vote: Path 12, Anxiety, Claphamsa, Barkeep49

[path12]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Actually I was hoping a wolf would be silly enough to try to reveal first, I almost waited to reveal til this evening giving them plenty of time, if I had seen someone claim to be seer, they woulda had my vote.

Well, I don't know if you are a wolf claiming arrogant seer, but you are absolutely lying if you claim there is only one........because I am the seer, and I have not been told anything about whether or not there is another.

My scans so far:

Night 1: Chief Rum, rogue. He is always someone I want to verify as soon as possible.
Night 2: claphamsa, villager. I was really thinking he was bad (hence my vote). I was wrong.
Night 3: Render, villager. Since he was the other candidate yesterday besides myself I figured he needed to be checked.

So there we have it. I know that ntn has lied about one thing in particular, so that's enough for my vote right now:

VOTE NTNDEACON

[path12]

Dola, I've got some work stuff to take care of, but will be back in a bit to answer any questions.

[jeheinz72]

hooboy.

[PurdueBrad]

Current vote tally (as of 638)-

SnDvls (5)- ntnDeacon (620), Lathum (621), Heinz (626), RendeR (627), Telle (628)
ntnDeacon (1)- Path12 (636)

no lynch- SnDvls (631)

Still to vote: Anxiety, Claphamsa, Barkeep49

[Telle]

Gah.

[ntndeacon]

so path you have been a seer all along? is this what you are saying?

[claphamsa]

I think I am overly involoved. I instently belive path rather than NTN (ntn cleared top suspects for me!)

[Lathum]

as expected

[claphamsa]

I also didnt buy the bit about ntn saying that he was todl he was the only seer. sounds fishy and would be a moajor error by PB.

[Telle]

ntn.. WHEN were you told that the only seer? When you were arrogant or after your "transformation"?

[Lathum]

OK, I stand correct about the bad guys knowing what roles are in the game.

I mistook this post and the following discussion.

The rules state that not all roles are necessarily in the game. If the wolves were told which roles are in the game, they could confidently fake-reveal as any of the untaken villager roles if they felt the need.

Brad- Can you tell us if the bad guys have knowledge of what roles are omitted?

[Lathum]

What does NTNDeacon have to gain by fake revealing?

[PurdueBrad]

Lathum:

The wolves do not know which roles have been omitted from the game.

[Telle]

And I reiterate that we KNOW that there is a previously-arrogant seer in this game. Unless another one pipes up, I'm inclined to believe NTN.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Lathum:

The wolves do not know which roles have been omitted from the game.

Wow.. I didn't expect an answer on that. Ok, that gives me a little more faith on Lathum, clap, and RendeR.