Werewolf XLIV: The Fightin’ Fundies vs. Them Gays - GAME OVER

[Blade6119]

ITC, should we believe tyrith? Im making a mental leap here, and need to know your thoughts.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, it really doesn't matter who we vote for on liberals as long as Lathum is keeping his vote on DT for a lynch.

[Chief Rum]

Agreed with hoops here. But I'll put in a vote anyway.

VOTE TYRITH LIBERAL LIST

This is tentative. I'm not certain about Tyrith or Lathum. But Lathum has enough votes, so mine's going here. I am hoping we have more information this time tomorrow.

I'll be out rest of the day, so good luck everyone.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade, it really doesn't matter who we vote for on liberals as long as Lathum is keeping his vote on DT for a lynch.

Well, if we vote tyrith to the list lathum would likely withdraw his vote.

But, im not sold either way...chief has been on lathums side from the get go, so im not putting stock into anything he says.

In my opinion, either way we have 2 wolves(tyrith/dt or lathum/chief)...its just a matter of which pair.

[Lathum]

If there are enough votes to put Tyrith on the liberal list I would withdraw my vote on DT so we can have 2 possible bad guys on the list.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, if Tyrith ends up getting the votes would you put yourself on the Liberal list after the deadline so you could demonstrate your duke power? Because that is basically the reverse of what you were asking him to do earlier when he called you out.

I see that as a clear win for you - you get to demonstrate your "dukeness" to everyone, we get to vote for Tyrith tomorrow, and go from there in terms of Daddy Torgo and anyone else who might be on the list at the start of the day.

So, any objections?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Lathum, if Tyrith ends up getting the votes would you put yourself on the Liberal list after the deadline so you could demonstrate your duke power? Because that is basically the reverse of what you were asking him to do earlier when he called you out.

I see that as a clear win for you - you get to demonstrate your "dukeness" to everyone, we get to vote for Tyrith tomorrow, and go from there in terms of Daddy Torgo and anyone else who might be on the list at the start of the day.

So, any objections?

I need to confirm the order of night action with Anxiety, but assuming I can put myself on the list then duke myself off, then I have no objections.

[hoopsguy]

From what I've seen, you put yourself on the list with one bad word and it is instantaneous - see Cronin. Unless those rules change from day to night, that seems to be the process. So do it right after the deadline, then send your order in after that.

I'll believe you are going to do this when I see you swear in the thread ...

[Blade6119]

And im still waiting to hear from ITC about his seer scans and if he thinks tyrith also seer scans

[path12]

This is crazy. WHO HAS COUNTERED TYRITH???? Until that happens, there is absolutely no reason to believe Lathum.

[Blade6119]

path, ITC has claimed seer scans as well...thats why im in limbo, as someone has kind of countered tyrith.

[path12]

If we got someone else on the liberal list and had someone put one vote on them then they would tie for the stone and we would default to the list voting, correct? If this is the case I would be willing to put myself on the list to avoid DT being stoned by Lathum and then we could be sure and get him on the list tonight.

[Tyrith]

This seems to be the most alarming trust I've seen in quite some time...of course, it's something I've argued for before -- kill the seer, confirm their list. If it is the consensus of the group (aka the people NOT LATHUM), I will allow you to kill me tonight in order to expediate the process. However, I don't think you can equally weight me and Lathum here, for a variety of reasons.

1) Out of duke and seer, the duke role is much less likely to be in the game.
2) I came out first, and Lathum waited (and was around) many hours before "revealing".
3) Lathum killed cronin yesterday.

At this point I'm going to offer myself up to the group. Use me as is your will.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

path, ITC has claimed seer scans as well...thats why im in limbo, as someone has kind of countered tyrith.

I didn't see that as a counter, what I see is two different kinds of seers. Maybe one can find liberal tendencies and the other can find gays....I don't know.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

path, ITC has claimed seer scans as well...thats why im in limbo, as someone has kind of countered tyrith.

Did he claim seer, or just that he was trying to follow you around? Because if he claimed seer, I'll let you kill me today and you can bag them both.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

This seems to be the most alarming trust I've seen in quite some time...of course, it's something I've argued for before -- kill the seer, confirm their list. If it is the consensus of the group (aka the people NOT LATHUM), I will allow you to kill me tonight in order to expediate the process. However, I don't think you can equally weight me and Lathum here, for a variety of reasons.

1) Out of duke and seer, the duke role is much less likely to be in the game.
2) I came out first, and Lathum waited (and was around) many hours before "revealing".
3) Lathum killed cronin yesterday.

At this point I'm going to offer myself up to the group. Use me as is your will.

I would rather offer myself up since I have no role. I think a seer should stay alive until it is proved he is not the seer.

[Tyrith]

However, upon rereading it doesn't look like he claimed seer. Looks like he just visited you, which could be as much a bodyguard as anything at this point.

Blade, at this point I think it might be good if you reveal if it's anything remotely relevant to this discussion...your choice, though.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by path12

I would rather offer myself up since I have no role. I think a seer should stay alive until it is proved he is not the seer.

I agree, but right now this feels like herding cats, as people are believing Lathum after he had hours to conjure up facts instead of the uncountered seer who revealed about 10 minutes after he got his PM last night.

[Blade6119]

Its not relevant to this discussion, and i dont believe lathum over you tyrith...im just working with some facts from various sources(such as the night your seer scan failed on me was the night we had a no-kill). I havent decided either way

[hoopsguy]

As far as I can tell, no one has countered Tyrith - including Crew. Now I guess it is possible that we have a dead seer among the three Fundies, but that would take some guts on the part of the deviants. I just don't see time being on their side quite yet.

I trust Tyrith over Lathum and I'm not switching my vote at this time. The way that Lathum is describing his Duke power doesn't seem correct at all - can only use at night, doesn't pick another person. By contrast, Tyrith's seer sounds spot on. Sure there is variance from moderator to moderator, but just ask yourself what makes more sense here? Even ignoring any kind of metagame thoughts on Lathum as a player (which he is certainly inviting as the "World's Best Wolf" signature) ...

If Crew comes out and says he is the seer between now and deadline I'll re-evaluate, but that is about the only circumstance that I see changing my vote for today.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

As far as I can tell, no one has countered Tyrith - including Crew. Now I guess it is possible that we have a dead seer among the three Fundies, but that would take some guts on the part of the deviants. I just don't see time being on their side quite yet.

I trust Tyrith over Lathum and I'm not switching my vote at this time. The way that Lathum is describing his Duke power doesn't seem correct at all - can only use at night, doesn't pick another person. By contrast, Tyrith's seer sounds spot on. Sure there is variance from moderator to moderator, but just ask yourself what makes more sense here? Even ignoring any kind of metagame thoughts on Lathum as a player (which he is certainly inviting as the "World's Best Wolf" signature) ...

If Crew comes out and says he is the seer between now and deadline I'll re-evaluate, but that is about the only circumstance that I see changing my vote for today.

You have no idea how nice it is to be able to actually trust what you say in one of these games :P

[path12]

The problem is that Lathum has placed a stone vote on DT, hasn't he? So in order for him to get on the list tonight we would have to have a tie in the stone vote, correct?

Abe, can you clarify that?

[Blade6119]

No, there is an unknown tie-breaker for lynching...only a tie-breaker in the list vote results in nothing

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by path12

The problem is that Lathum has placed a stone vote on DT, hasn't he? So in order for him to get on the list tonight we would have to have a tie in the stone vote, correct?

Abe, can you clarify that?

Stone votes trump liberal votes like a 2 of Hearts trumps an Ace of Clubs. Or like Donald trumps hairstyle. It's an auto win baby!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

The problem is that Lathum has placed a stone vote on DT, hasn't he? So in order for him to get on the list tonight we would have to have a tie in the stone vote, correct?

Abe, can you clarify that?

I think he said the lynch vote tie breaker is unknown

[Abe Sargent]

On the other hand, there would need to be muptle peopl eon teh liberal list to have a tie for stoning.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

No, there is an unknown tie-breaker for lynching...only a tie-breaker in the list vote results in nothing

Until i had remembered that, ihad thought the best thing would be to vollunteer by making a patently ridiculous statement to trigger names being put on the liberal list.

[hoopsguy]

Path, I don't think that plan is going to work based on Anxiety's post:

At the end of the day, you will stone the person on the liberal list with the greatest amount of stone votes. In the case of a tied stone vote, an undisclosed method will be used to determine the victim. Even one stone votes trumps J’accuse.

So it looks like it is different than what we say on Day 1 with the tie.

[Lathum]

I'm out for a while. Unless something changes I'll take my chances

[DaddyTorgo]

blade

per your theory in #604

I'm not a wolf. So I can't vouch for Tyrith at all, but I know I'm not a wolf. So if you're drawing the line there...your other wolf-pair is Rum+Lathum

Cuz I guarentee you i'm 100% innocent.

I want to know what night action ended me up on the liberal list, cuz I didn't get any type of PM about it. So I'll say this. My liberal-list leaning-tendency or whatever you want to call it, is that I have donated to the ACLU in the past.

And I have no idea whether Lathum or Tyrith is telling the truth. I know that I am a deacon in the church though. But whether there could be other deacons (including a head deacon) i'm not sure. I have no way of knowing.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'll die. It's okay. I have no special powers so it's just a loss of one villager. I just wish we had a way we could make some other type of progress. Because otherwise like hoops said, it'll be day 7 before you can off lathum.

and the only way to trust tyrith is to off lathum and see what happens. But that'll take forever.


heyyyy...call me crazy, but what if tyrith+lathum are BOTH wolves? and this is their lil "we have the numbers to get to endgame this way" plan??

honestly though, I think it more likely that tyrith is actually the seer.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i'll die. It's okay. I have no special powers so it's just a loss of one villager. I just wish we had a way we could make some other type of progress. Because otherwise like hoops said, it'll be day 7 before you can off lathum.

and the only way to trust tyrith is to off lathum and see what happens. But that'll take forever.


heyyyy...call me crazy, but what if tyrith+lathum are BOTH wolves? and this is their lil "we have the numbers to get to endgame this way" plan??

honestly though, I think it more likely that tyrith is actually the seer.

The simple solution is for another person to claim that they are the seer. If another person claims seer I will gladly sacrifice myself for the good of the village, for my task will have been accomplished.

[path12]

Yeah, this kind of sucks. So Lathum is going to be able all by himself to kill Cronin and DT, and it's still going to be two days before we can get him?

Again, perfect time for someone to use some powers -- somebody's got to have them, this is way too unbalanced otherwise.

[Tyrith]

I figure there has to be more going on than meets the eye, because otherwise we could never win -- we have no obvious mechanism for getting people onto the list...but he said the gays would have some liberal streak in them. If it was only special roles and they got killed I'm sure Anxiety has a plan...right?

[Blade6119]

well who put DT on the list?

[DaddyTorgo]

good question.

I was put on the list via a night action according to anxiety. I have a feeling it was some mechanism like a garbage man or someone like that who could have gone through my trash and maybe seen the receipts from my donations to the ACLU or something?

[DaddyTorgo]

but I don't have anything to base that on. I just figure that's more likely than a burgular or something

[ImTheCrew]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

ITC, should we believe tyrith? Im making a mental leap here, and need to know your thoughts.

i wouldnt think that he would come out so early... but its possible.... im not a seer but i can visit people at night and first night was cronin and he was asleep then tyrith the next day and he was asleep, the last night blade i came to your house and you were gone i went looking for you and when i came back you were asleep aswell.

[ImTheCrew]

dola-

sorry guys i havent been around alot, just started a new quarter swamped with work and its hard to get my head into the game but as of right now im almost caught

[ImTheCrew]

what is a nightfall vote?

[Abe Sargent]

No early nightfall when your GM is watching his alma mater in the NIT finals.

[hoopsguy]

It basically means that you would support ending the day early - that you are fine with your vote being locked if the moderator honors the nightfall votes by the majority and ends the day.

However, with votes split across Tyrith and Lathum there is not going to be a nightfall today (hope I'm not speaking for Anxiety too much here).

[ImTheCrew]

VOTE LATHUM like i said i went to tryith house on night 1?(2nd night action) and he was asleep so he pretty high on my trust list for now

[Tyrith]

Hoops, more immediate problem is that DT is dead. Well, probably a problem. I don't think Lathum would sacrifice his teammate right now, because I'd just sacrifice myself and have him cornered.

[hoopsguy]

Agreed that we are probably headed in that direction. But we pretty much knew that from about ... oh, maybe thirty seconds after you revealed.

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE LIBERALIZE TYRITH

VOTE LIBERALIZE IMTHECREW

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Agreed that we are probably headed in that direction. But we pretty much knew that from about ... oh, maybe thirty seconds after you revealed.

Yup. But what else can we do with the rules being as weird as they are.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm dead I guess. I think i've told you everything I know. let me do a quick summary before I go grab coffee:

Tyrith: I tend to believe his reveal in the absence of any other reveals or information at this point.
Blade: Seems to be on the side of good, although one must always remember that he can be dangerously evil.
Hoops: I'd say good.
Lathum: I'd say evil. Last time I felt this sure he was evil, I called him out based on a last-minute vote switch, and I was correct that time.
Chief Rum: Leaning towards bad on my own based on his voting patterns, plus with Blade's thoughts.
ITC: Interesting story he is bringing up here. I honestly would put him right below CR in terms of liklehood to be evil. He could be good and have some sort of role like this, but if you all get to the point of one wolf left, it might be him.
everyone else: no real read.
oh wait...Ironhead: I think is likely good. He's playing a pretty classic newb-game.

that's all I got really. Sorry I couldn't be more help guys. Although i'm sorta honored i've moved into that "to be killed earlier" phase of my WW-career.

[DaddyTorgo]

I want to point out for the record that Blade did that unvote/vote as I was typing up my summary. So that's two of us who are slightly suspicious of ITC.

Could Lathum/ITC/CR be the rest of the 2 original wolves + the convert? could it be that easy??

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by ImTheCrew

i wouldnt think that he would come out so early... but its possible.... im not a seer but i can visit people at night and first night was cronin and he was asleep then tyrith the next day and he was asleep, the last night blade i came to your house and you were gone i went looking for you and when i came back you were asleep aswell.

This is my problem...my role, which ill reveal now, is one that blocks all night actions. No action, good or evil, is going to work on me. They will be informed they failed, but wont know why. I will have no idea when and if they happen.

I pressed ITC about lathum, as i found it odd ITC got the exact same excuse tyrith did about my where-abouts. Now ITC is saying he actually found me at the end of the night, and i was asleep like the others. My understanding of my role is that there should be no way for him to learn that.