Werewolf XXXVIII: Jack The Ripper (GAME OVER! GOOD WINS ON DAY SEVEN)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

So what of LSG then? She seems to have aligned herself with Daddy.

If you look at what LSG said, her story matches what I know at least.. 3 shillings a night. I personally just think she didn't look close enough at what DT said and if she re-checks she gains those 3 regardless if she goes out or not. I don't really see her alligning herself with DT right now and wouldn't hold it against her if DT is bad.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I don't have absolute trust in the three people I saw at the opium den, but I don't think they're good votes because I think they're not Mr. Hyde.

You saw people at the den? I didn't see anyone. Well, except for the group of women dancing around me singing "Deck the Halls". But I suspect that was the opium talkin'.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

*is a mess all over the carpet*

A little soda water should take that right out. Or is that wine stains? I can never remember.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Alan T

If you look at what LSG said, her story matches what I know at least.. 3 shillings a night. I personally just think she didn't look close enough at what DT said and if she re-checks she gains those 3 regardless if she goes out or not. I don't really see her alligning herself with DT right now and wouldn't hold it against her if DT is bad.

I just re-read her post, you are correct.

Gotta do some stuff around here, so I shall return later.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, here is where I worry about releasing location information - we don't know the order that actions are processed.

Example:
1. Local activities - bad guys act before good guys
2. Move to new area
3. Remote activities - bad guys act before good guys

So if I was to give out information on where someone started last night, I could make them a sitting duck for a bad guy kill.

I have no idea about the order of actions, just using the above as an example where the full disclosure of information provides a lot of value for the opposition.

If the group feels that the rewards outweigh the risks I'll reveal all the location information that I possess.

On the topic of location information, I do find it interesting that I saw four people leave a region where MrW lives and he was not one of them. If you figure an even distribution of people across a region, then there are probably six per region. It is possible I would not see people who stay home, but it has been indicated that MrW was on the move yesterday.

Random dice roll or something more sinister?

I think if there was some bad activity in your district last night I would be more pressing on who was there. Since it appears most of the activity that happened there was not involved with the night kills, I dont mind leaving it to those people if they want to state they were there or not. Its probably good information for you to collect for later however in case its needed.

I for one know you didn't see me as I went no where near there last night

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Yeah that was my point.. Daddy's statement makes it clear that he is not an ordinary villager. I am pretty sure ordinary villagers will earn money the way you stated.

So with that said, assuming Daddy is not an ordinary villager, why then would he have other ordinary villager abilities.

Maybe its my normal case of finding suspicion in someone and then every statement that they make that doesn't add up just fueling my suspicion here.. but the more DT talks, the less likely I feel i want to move my vote away from him.

Since DT is not an ordinary villager role as its clear, its a much higher percentage chance he is bad than an average random vote. At least in my mind right now.

or maybe you're just upset i burned you last game? why wouldn't someone have a "visit opium den" or "visit prostitute" role even if they were good but not an ordinary villager? nowhere does it say that those are restricted to "ordinary villagers" alan. you're reading into things that shouldn't be read into.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

You saw people at the den? I didn't see anyone. Well, except for the group of women dancing around me singing "Deck the Halls". But I suspect that was the opium talkin'.

I don't think Mr.W was visiting the opium den. I think he was in the area when Fouts was killed outside of the Opium den. The people who came when he shouted for help (Blade, St.cronin, ntndeacon) I am guessing were not partaking in the opium den either.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

or maybe you're just upset i burned you last game? why wouldn't someone have a "visit opium den" or "visit prostitute" role even if they were good but not an ordinary villager? nowhere does it say that those are restricted to "ordinary villagers" alan. you're reading into things that shouldn't be read into.

I'm not really sure how you "burned" me last game as any of the others on my team could verify I was thinking you were probably bad from day 2 on and pushed for you to be our scan target on night 1. However thats neither here nor there, its pretty silly to argue my points in this game with things from last game that are irrelevant.

Like I said, I have no idea if you have the ability to visit prostitutes or whatever, but you sure didn't seem to know much about it yesterday. You had a headache, fair enough so today you still have a different role than the rest of us with your story. No matter how you cut it, you don't have the same normal villager role that others have.

Whether that makes you bad or good I don't know and will leave it up to others to make their own judgements, but I just know you aren't the same role as me.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I wouldn't care to guess whether Blade, st.cronin, or ntndeacon were customers, staff, or otherwise at the den, or merely passing nearby. I just know that they came when I called for help.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, what is your gut on people that actually have the same role as you? I'm probably not going to be able to really dig into this question until I get home tonight and I may have deadline challenges going through a few hundred posts in that shortened timetable.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm not really sure how you "burned" me last game as any of the others on my team could verify I was thinking you were probably bad from day 2 on and pushed for you to be our scan target on night 1. However thats neither here nor there, its pretty silly to argue my points in this game with things from last game that are irrelevant.

Like I said, I have no idea if you have the ability to visit prostitutes or whatever, but you sure didn't seem to know much about it yesterday. You had a headache, fair enough so today you still have a different role than the rest of us with your story. No matter how you cut it, you don't have the same normal villager role that others have.

Whether that makes you bad or good I don't know and will leave it up to others to make their own judgements, but I just know you aren't the same role as me.

fair enough. that was a cheap-shot and irrelevant. i do have the ability to visit prostitutes or the opium den if i choose. It does seem likely that I don't have the same normal villager role of course. But in a game like this I don't find that that surprising, that I have an advantage here and a disadvantage somewhere else. I earn an extra shilling if I stay in at night to earn money, but if I go out at night I assume additional risk. i don't see why that tweaks you so much. There's a lot of strange roles going on in London here.

I see your point about how the fact that i'm not a "normal" villager makes me more suspicious. But if we lynch everyone who isn't a "normal" villager then we lose all of our special abilities.

[hoopsguy]

Daddy, can I safely assume that your special ability is not simply gaining an extra shilling when you stay in?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Daddy, can I safely assume that your special ability is not simply gaining an extra shilling when you stay in?

right. but it's also not guarenteed. i'm not a powerful role, i think i'm more of just a "add a little flavor" kinda role, since I wasn't mentioned as a specific like "powerful type" in the roles+rules. i would reveal more, except it might put me at risk and a clever person might pick up the hints I've dropped (including the big one) and put them together anyways. I'm not sure if my survival matters as far as game mechanics go, but I don't want to die, for purely selfish reasons.

[bulletsponge]

for now
Vote Mr Wednesday

[Swaggs]

I can vouch for Barkeep, as well. I saw him and bulletsponge in my opium-induced dream.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I can vouch for Barkeep, as well. I saw him and bulletsponge in my opium-induced dream.

wow, i feel so much better now that a junkie saw me in a dope induced vision.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I can vouch for Barkeep, as well. I saw him and bulletsponge in my opium-induced dream.

Can you vouch for bullet then, also?

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

right. but it's also not guarenteed. i'm not a powerful role, i think i'm more of just a "add a little flavor" kinda role, since I wasn't mentioned as a specific like "powerful type" in the roles+rules. i would reveal more, except it might put me at risk and a clever person might pick up the hints I've dropped (including the big one) and put them together anyways. I'm not sure if my survival matters as far as game mechanics go, but I don't want to die, for purely selfish reasons.

I miss a lot of hints, but I caught yours

you are clear in my book

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm leaning towards Mr. Weds. but I don't want to post "just a vote" so i'll summarize my thoughts later and make my vote official.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Can somebody give a justification for voting for me besides the fact that I happened to be in the Bishopsgate area for reasons I'd rather not go into?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, and please note, NOBODY WAS KILLED THERE!!!

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

wow, i feel so much better now that a junkie saw me in a dope induced vision.

You crack me up sometimes.

[Schmidty]

I have a bit of a problem.

I'm not sure if I should continue in this game. I am having a bit of financial trouble, and recieved a call from Comcast that because I'm 60 days past due, my internet service will be disconnected as soon as today, or as late as 1 week. It really sucks because I wanted to be in this game, and might be able continue for up to a weekm but at the same time, I'm wondering if it might just be better to have Chief Rum find a new player right away.

I'll PM him, and see what he says.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I wouldn't care to guess whether Blade, st.cronin, or ntndeacon were customers, staff, or otherwise at the den, or merely passing nearby. I just know that they came when I called for help.

I came in response to a cry out, and i can say that i saw cronin and ntndeacon come as well. I dont know who called though, but i can confirm the three of us all seeminly responded to the same cry out.

So in this regard i can confirm your story as correct, though i cannot confirm it was you who cried out. I did see the other two in the crowd though.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade, what is your gut on people that actually have the same role as you? I'm probably not going to be able to really dig into this question until I get home tonight and I may have deadline challenges going through a few hundred posts in that shortened timetable.

I knew from my initial PM i would have competition with the urchins, so i expected a few similar roles, but how many people claim it astounds me.

I tend to trust Alan since he has been right with almost all of his comments in regards to minor details. LSG and DT worried me, though DT has tried to explain it, in saying they werent sure if they made money if they went out at night and DT claiming 4 gold. These 2 facts deviate from my role, as it was made relatively clear(in my mind) i got my income regardless of what i did.

Since then, i have seen saldana claim the role, swaggs and DC hint at it, and quite frankly i find it likely that its the later players that are bluffing. Bad guys, in a game like this with so much info(and evil) have to be very careful about what they say. Minor details could get them lynched, so they tend to speak in common terms and make agreements to things already posted by others.

Im not sure who is evil, but i really only trust alan in that group right now.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, what are your feelings on Path in that common role?
- he identified himself as a Londoner on his sign-on post #87
- he did not dispute Fouts' claim on the 5 shilling fee for a prostitute (he and BrianD commented on this at the time)
- he has struck me as a player who is pretty frustrated with the number of vanilla villagers

[hoopsguy]

Also, going from memory Dubb was the first person to come forward with the info on opium.

I know I do not have this role - are the urchin/opium/prostitute all functions for the common villager role or am I blending two different roles in my interpretation of actions available to the (unwashed) masses?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Since then, i have seen saldana claim the role, swaggs and DC hint at it, and quite frankly i find it likely that its the later players that are bluffing.

In DC's favor, she spotted me passing through Bishopsgate, where no murders occurred last night. That's not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a point in favor. There are several other people whose movements last night are completely unknown.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Also, going from memory Dubb was the first person to come forward with the info on opium.

I know I do not have this role - are the urchin/opium/prostitute all functions for the common villager role or am I blending two different roles in my interpretation of actions available to the (unwashed) masses?

Its all one role, you just have finite resources to decide which you want to spend money on. There is no way to be able to fund all of it. Also as people probably realize we are in competition with one another for the services of the orphans.

I think Dubbs is fine in my book, he came out and explained in detail to St.Cronin what I was hinting at last night. I also think path is ok as he hinted to the orphan role before I expanded on it with more hints before Blade's reveal. Path also had other interaction with Fouts yesterday that I liked. I also found Raiders Army ok yesterday but it was rather minorly feeling ok and he hasnt done much that I have caught since to help solidify that or wreck it.

Today I found comments both LSG and Dodgerchick as seemingly ok and believable and don't have huge issues with them.

Right now I'm feeling ok with the group of

Blade
Path
LSG
Dodgerchick
myself
Dubbs

with slightly ok about Raiders.

You know my reasons why I pushed on DaddyTorgo and he has admitted as much as not being ordinary since. Whether that makes him good or bad, heck if I know. I also have weird vibes from Saldana who either entirely missed huge hints about the same role he claims to have or is up to something.

The only big concern i have is the possibility of conversion in this group or the possibility that some bad guys might start off with a similar type role to prevent "PM Sharing" from happening.

I know you asked Blade, but I figured I would provide my 2 cents too.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Its all one role, you just have finite resources to decide which you want to spend money on. There is no way to be able to fund all of it. Also as people probably realize we are in competition with one another for the services of the orphans.

I think Dubbs is fine in my book, he came out and explained in detail to St.Cronin what I was hinting at last night. I also think path is ok as he hinted to the orphan role before I expanded on it with more hints before Blade's reveal. Path also had other interaction with Fouts yesterday that I liked. I also found Raiders Army ok yesterday but it was rather minorly feeling ok and he hasnt done much that I have caught since to help solidify that or wreck it.

Today I found comments both LSG and Dodgerchick as seemingly ok and believable and don't have huge issues with them.

Right now I'm feeling ok with the group of

Blade
Path
LSG
Dodgerchick
myself
Dubbs

with slightly ok about Raiders.

You know my reasons why I pushed on DaddyTorgo and he has admitted as much as not being ordinary since. Whether that makes him good or bad, heck if I know. I also have weird vibes from Saldana who either entirely missed huge hints about the same role he claims to have or is up to something.

The only big concern i have is the possibility of conversion in this group or the possibility that some bad guys might start off with a similar type role to prevent "PM Sharing" from happening.

I know you asked Blade, but I figured I would provide my 2 cents too.

Someone is trying hard to clear themselves lol

I was actually going to suggest we ask someone like saldana or DT to tell us this as a way to clear them, but that idea is now useless.

I do believe there could be conversions, but i dont think its happened yet

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade, what are your feelings on Path in that common role?
- he identified himself as a Londoner on his sign-on post #87
- he did not dispute Fouts' claim on the 5 shilling fee for a prostitute (he and BrianD commented on this at the time)
- he has struck me as a player who is pretty frustrated with the number of vanilla villagers

Alan trusts him, i dont yet...or brian...its comments like theirs where they agreed with dubb that throw up red flags to me, as they didnt really add anything to the conversation.

Path was the first to bring up the possibilty of a day action though, so he is higher then brian

[Lorena]

Blade, Brian is dead

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

DC, I think the point is that there are a lot of people who are aligning themselves in the "ordinary villager role" when it seems that there are quite a few special roles out there.

- 3+ bad guys, based on three kills
- I know of three prostitutes and there is at least one more out there
- We have already seen three ordinary villagers killed during Night 1

Just seems likely that some of the "bad guys" are hiding in plain site by acting like ordinary villagers.

My guess is there is at least 4 bad guys... no prostitutes were killed. I am reading into his role that he can't kill other folks. It may be a bad assumption , but it makes sence to me.

[Blade6119]

VOTE DADDY TORGO

Mr. W wasnt lying about his story in whitechapel, so ill trust him over DT whos role seems to conflict with mine in a few areas

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I know I do not have this role - are the urchin/opium/prostitute all functions for the common villager role or am I blending two different roles in my interpretation of actions available to the (unwashed) masses?

It is all available to the Londoner role.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Blade, Brian is dead

Have you never seen a zombie flick? Those bastards are even more dangerous dead then alive!!

Ok, i admit i screwed up...i guess i should trust brian now that he is dead, though ive got my chainsaw ready in case he tries anything

[hoopsguy]

OK, so I'm going to start pulling some people off my "potential vote" list for today - doesn't mean they are innocent, but it is tough to construct scenarios around 18 people.

DT - role not pinned down, although SnDvls seems to trust him

Schmidty - "head hurts" was initial reaction to receivign role, I initially believed that implied a special role but less sure with complexity of "common" role

Saldana - making a push for common role, suggested he was outbid for urchin by Blade

Lathum - very little feel, although he made a comment about Hoops/Barkeep dispute yesterday that was pretty off-base

Cronin - topic of discussion Day 1, hard to fathom what kind of role he had based on his early comments in game but likely not the "common" role

LSG - very little feel

MrW - another person who is unlikely to have "common" role. Want to look harder at him in near future in terms of his location for last night - both his claims and assertions of others

SnDvls - very little feel

Dodgerchick - making a play for "common" role?

Raiders - very little feel

Swaggs - co-leader in clubhouse right now with Lathum for my suspicions

NTN - do people think he is trying to adopt "common" role?

[Blade6119]

Id be willing to vote for swaggs, raiders, DC, Lathum, or schmidty right now...not counting DT and sndvls since i didnt realize sn was trying to clear DT

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

The only big concern i have is the possibility of conversion in this group or the possibility that some bad guys might start off with a similar type role to prevent "PM Sharing" from happening.

This is where I'm at right now. (well, not necessarily the conversion aspect but the rest of it) I think it is a real possibility that at least some of the bad guys have the same abilities as the Londoners. I don't doubt that there's been some piling on in the claims for villagers, but it just seems to me that if just the Londoners have those abilities that it might be a little too easy to form trust circles.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by path12

This is where I'm at right now. (well, not necessarily the conversion aspect but the rest of it) I think it is a real possibility that at least some of the bad guys have the same abilities as the Londoners. I don't doubt that there's been some piling on in the claims for villagers, but it just seems to me that if just the Londoners have those abilities that it might be a little too easy to form trust circles.

Well, tonight will be telling...if we continue to have 3 kills a night i can see us having all of these powers

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Id be willing to vote for swaggs, raiders, DC, Lathum, or schmidty right now...not counting DT and sndvls since i didnt realize sn was trying to clear DT

of those on yours and hoops list I'd be willing to go
Raiders, Lathum or Schmidty

[SnDvls]

dola - not really clearing him, just that I'm pretty sure I have his role pegged from his hints.

[SnDvls]

double dola - I have no confirmation on DT being good or bad, just I feel from his hints he is good and what his role is being good...hope that clears it up some

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Id be willing to vote for swaggs, raiders, DC, Lathum, or schmidty right now...not counting DT and sndvls since i didnt realize sn was trying to clear DT

Okay, so why me?

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't think Mr.W was visiting the opium den. I think he was in the area when Fouts was killed outside of the Opium den. The people who came when he shouted for help (Blade, St.cronin, ntndeacon) I am guessing were not partaking in the opium den either.

I wasn't at the opium den. I only came over there with the shouts. (Just confirming what you are suspecting Alan. ) Prior to that I was in Cavell Street.

[hoopsguy]

I can confirm seeing NTN at Cavell Street.

However, that seems a little weird to me - were you visiting Cavell Street? I recognize that answering this may end up tying you to your home district, but if you were visiting then I can not draw conclusive information on any of the four people on my list. Or I need to start drawing other conclusions from it ...

[Lorena]

So I have:

DaddyTorgo (4)- AlanT, Barkeep49, Blade6119, Dubb93
Mr. W (4)- Bulletsponge, Dodgerchick, LoneStarGirl, SnDvls

20 of us left so we need 7 votes to lynch right?

[Izulde]

Lynching DC would be a mistake.

[Izulde]

eine meenie minie mo.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[Blade6119]

Lathum, any good reason i shouldnt vote for you?