Werewolf CLXVII - The Wheel of Time - Game Over

[Vaimes]

Originally Posted by Grover

Here's my thing. I understand if you do not believe me and want to lynch me to find out one way or the other.

But with my reveal, and I promise it is all true, it makes me a huge target for the wolves tonight. I'd put money on myself being killed off if not lynched.

Why let the wolves get a 2 for 1 deal tonight? Why don't we try and see if there is someone else that could potentially be a wolf outside of me?

This is true.

Plus he sort of locked in a vote on himself (if I'm understanding the mechanic correctly) when he's being wagoned, which. Sounds more like a frustrated town derp than scum wine.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by Grover

Here's my thing. I understand if you do not believe me and want to lynch me to find out one way or the other.

But with my reveal, and I promise it is all true, it makes me a huge target for the wolves tonight. I'd put money on myself being killed off if not lynched.

Why let the wolves get a 2 for 1 deal tonight? Why don't we try and see if there is someone else that could potentially be a wolf outside of me?

I have a problem with this course of action. I am fairly confident you are a wolf. Not lynching you today pushes this all back another day when/if you survive the night. It doesn't make sense to do so. Unless someone scanned a wolf or has some potentially damning evidence one way or another I am not going to move off of you today.

[Grover]

I believe my fellow villagers need to take a long hard look at Zinto after he is gone.

[Grover]

after I am gone, rather.

[Vaimes]

Reasons Grover is a Wolf:

- he had a super convenient power that allowed him to dodge the lynch
- claims his role is indispensable
- ???

Was there anything else?

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Vaimes

Reasons Grover is a Wolf:

- he had a super convenient power that allowed him to dodge the lynch
- claims his role is indispensable
- ???

Was there anything else?

Heh. Might I remind everyone. The only reason my power was convenient was because I was up to be lynch.

I only dodged the lynch because the vote was tied and the mechanic to decide double or no lynch, came up in cheek and my favor.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Vaimes

Or rather softclaiming.

Are you talking about my post? I don't consider that too revelatory. I am pretty sure everyone here has pretty detailed PMs with a lot more info than they have put out here.

[Vaimes]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Are you talking about my post? I don't consider that too revelatory. I am pretty sure everyone here has pretty detailed PMs with a lot more info than they have put out here.

Well, sure, but it'd be nice to let the Vanillas eat the kills instead of unnecessarily dropping rolehints.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Vaimes

Well, sure, but it'd be nice to let the Vanillas eat the kills instead of unnecessarily dropping rolehints.

There are no vanillas.

[Vaimes]

That's awkward.

[Vaimes]

Anyway.

Vote Coffee Warlord

[path12]

Originally Posted by Grover

But with my reveal, and I promise it is all true, it makes me a huge target for the wolves tonight. I'd put money on myself being killed off if not lynched.

Why let the wolves get a 2 for 1 deal tonight? Why don't we try and see if there is someone else that could potentially be a wolf outside of me?

I'd disagree that you are a huge target for a night kill. Assuming you are good why would the wolves get rid of you? You'd be taking the heat off of them by drawing votes.

But yeah, I don't want to waste an entire day with one lynch target and no discussion, that doesn't do us any good either. So who pings you and why?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Vaimes

That's awkward.

Not really. I can pretty much guarantee with my experience from the past in games of these sort, there isn't a single person in this game who is truly a vanilla. Everyone has detailed role and faction information. Some have actions they can take. Some just have information or inherent abilities that aren't powers but are just part of who they are.

There is no "I'm just a peasant working my land" normal guy in this game.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by Vaimes

Reasons Grover is a Wolf:

- he had a super convenient power that allowed him to dodge the lynch
- claims his role is indispensable
- ???

Was there anything else?

Everything he has claimed and done since the lynch results have seemed very reactive to what is happening in thread instead of being resolute in his abilities.

Claim to not know who saved you until people are pointing out that a villager will have to come forward to save you here. Then claim you in fact saved yourself.

Claim you need the horn to become the dragon reborn. Change your story as people say that doesn't really make sense.

Be accused of acting too factual and not raging enough. So you vote for yourself and nightfall it.

Even last night people were on asking for a role reveal after what happened to EF. And he didn't do so until the last few minutes.

I get that one or two of these things might be a coincidence but there is a lot of smoke here for me not to think there is also a fire.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by path12

I'd disagree that you are a huge target for a night kill. Assuming you are good why would the wolves get rid of you? You'd be taking the heat off of them by drawing votes.

But yeah, I don't want to waste an entire day with one lynch target and no discussion, that doesn't do us any good either. So who pings you and why?

I was gonna say, if I'm a wolf, I'm going to happily sit back and let Grover hang himself. The longer you stay alive at this point, the more time we waste discussing you.

[Chief Rum]

Why is Grover a target for the wolves? I don't consider that self-evident.

He can channel, and he has a random power each night. Thus far, he hasn't really hurt the wolves and he has been a lightning bolt for discussion. If I were a wolf, I would probably want to keep him around, and let him hang himself. Until he displays the ability to hurt the Shadow, as a hypothetical wolf, he doesn't really matter. Might as well go after the others, as they might actually be bale to hurt the Shadow.

[Shoveler]

Day 3 Vote

Grover [5] - Narcizo (538), Zinto (542), cheekimonk (550), Grover (562), timmae (568), path12 (571)
Coffee Warlord [1] - Vaimes (611)

Nightfall [1] - Grover (563)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I was gonna say, if I'm a wolf, I'm going to happily sit back and let Grover hang himself. The longer you stay alive at this point, the more time we waste discussing you.

Lol... we were more or less saying the same thing at the same time.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Zinto

I get that one or two of these things might be a coincidence but there is a lot of smoke here for me not to think there is also a fire.

I hinted at the dragon in two posts before the actual reveal.

I guess less subtlety in the future.

[Vaimes]

Oh wait, Coffee Warlord tried to steal from Grover.

Unvote
Vote timmae

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Lol... we were more or less saying the same thing at the same time.

I though I told you in PM's I was gonna make that post! Jeez, we need to work better on our wolf communication.

....wait, fuck! I mean, Yay Village!

[Chief Rum]

Grover, so your Day Two power was to take over someone's vote and make it the same as yours? And selecting that person also protects them from a night kill tonight?

What power did you get for Night One? And what power do you get for tonight?

Am I understanding your claimed power correctly?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I though I told you in PM's I was gonna make that post! Jeez, we need to work better on our wolf communication.

....wait, fuck! I mean, Yay Village!

Haha damnit! That's what I get for trusting a Stark.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Grover, so your Day Two power was to take over someone's vote and make it the same as yours? And selecting that person also protects them from a night kill tonight?

What power did you get for Night One? And what power do you get for tonight?

Am I understanding your claimed power correctly?

Okay, so the first night. I randomly used my power on a person. The result to me was that their vote would count as whatever I voted.

Last night I used my power on someone else. That person cannot be lynched tonight.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by Grover

Well, it only saved me because of the circumstances, no?

I could have swung a vote influentially any way it would have worked, but in this situation it saved me.

The character I used my power on last night, cannot be lynched by the wolves tonight. I put a protective net around them. I will not say who they are, in hopes that the wolves try and lynch that person.

So... Is this protect order just a lie or is it actually something that may be possible. Looking for help from those who know the books.

Also, very happy to see martin post.

[Grover]

Say I survive tonight and I use the power on another person... I won't know what that power is until AFTER I've decided to use it

[Grover]

I am a male channeler and the results of male channeling can go anyway. I have very little control over my powers.

I can only provide the powers that be with a target. What happens is up to them.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Grover

I hinted at the dragon in two posts before the actual reveal.

I guess less subtlety in the future.

Well, how about finding those posts and quoting them for us, and we can make that judgment for ourselves.

Subtlety is fine. Just be sure to note what you said so you can point it out later. Of course, too subtle/vague, and we may not believe you. Too obvious, of course, and the people you're hiding from can find you. So it's a bit of an art.

[Grover]

I also have the ability to search one person a night for the Horn of Valere.

It seems as though CW might also have this same ability?

If that's the case, it could possibly reason that one of us is for the Light and one of us is for the Dark.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Grover

Okay, so the first night. I randomly used my power on a person. The result to me was that their vote would count as whatever I voted.

Last night I used my power on someone else. That person cannot be lynched tonight.

Okay.

That second one, you mean nightkilled, I presume? Key difference there.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by path12

But this IS THE GAME. And what you don't do is get pouty and vote for yourself. Or, IMO, use your power to save yourself when you are on the block.

I don't agree with your 2nd sentence. If he is village and knows he is village, he'd use the power to save himself, or else he is lynched and his power is gone from the game anyway. Not sure how this is different than a self preservation vote against the next top vote getter when you are in the running to get lynched.

[Raven]

Also, I'd like to point out that the whole reason Grover seemed to be getting all the heat yesterday was because Zinto and Cheeki moved their votes off of him the previous day, and not necessarily for anything HE did himself.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Grover

vote cheekimonk

What else can I do?

I feel the light flickering out in this world. First the Seer. I feel like young Thomas watching Roland from behind the eyes of Roland's pride. Helpless. I am who those eyes belong to.

Post 457.

Originally Posted by Grover

I see five votes on me with ONLY timmae making a statement that I could possibly be a wolf. It was a hunch. Not one of the rest of you have made a point against me.

I'm curious to see why it's okay for glen to take his vote off Martin because he's not around, when I didn't change my vote yesterday when I wasn't around and people tried to turn that into an issue today.

Is absence guilt? Then why aren't we also considering Martin as a potential wolf.

Raven has said nothing all game. He's somewhat active and his silence in this game is speaking volumes to me. Not to mention some piling on to past me cheekimonk. Who also seems to be piling on in here.

I can promise you that I am a village and I will fight this attempted witchunt with the ferocity and flame of one of our supposed dragons.

Post 427

And a couple of posts after 457, I mentioned needing the Horn to become the dragon. That was a misstatement I mixed up the various roles I had and kind of shoehorned them together. That was wrong of me and caused a ton of confusion.

I also realize that thanking whomever saved me is a red flag, especially when I claim that it was me that did that in the end. I wanted to say something originally because it might direct people from thinking I did save myself. However, having to come clean does look reactive, however there's little I can do about this now.

What I can hope to do is try and sway everyone into voting for someone else. I will answer all of your questions to the best of my ability. If it's not enough, I completely understand why you want to lynch me. Even if you don't, I think I will be dead by morning either way.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Okay.

That second one, you mean nightkilled, I presume? Key difference there.

Yes, sorry. I was told that that person has a protective net around them, protecting them from harm.

[Grover]

And I have strong feelings the person I ended up protecting may be a wolf. I don't trust them, the way they have pushed against me the last couple of days. Plus they made a couple of telling comments about what they may do should they be a wolf. Too easy of a link? Maybe, but I'm not sold.

[Raven]

I don't necessarily understand all the game mechanics yet, but I'm going to side with Grover here. I think he seems to be digging his own hole for some of you, but I don't think he'd vote nightfall if he was a wolf, especially this early in the day.

I'm going to vote for one of the guys whose action originally started the Grover reaction, and also put EF in the lead on the first vote.

Zinto unvote Grover, vote The Jackal

Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), fontisian (84), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151)
EagleFan [4] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153)
The Jackal [3] - Coffee Warlord (94), EagleFan (158), Zinto(160)
Grover [2] - path12 (147), cheekimonk (155)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

cheekimonk unvote Grover, Vote EagleFan

EagleFan [5] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153), cheekimonk(163)
Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), fontisian (84), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151)
The Jackal [3] - Coffee Warlord (94), EagleFan (158), Zinto(160)
Grover [1] - path12 (147)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

vote cheekimonk

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Zinto

Here is my problem with the timeline today. Last night you claimed that someone saved you. Then Narcizo and I come out and say that unless a villager comes out and says they used a power to save you we should probably lynch you.

That's not exactly what I said to be honest.

Anyway, my daughter has been sick today so we're postponing our trip till tomorrow. So I'll be here to discuss how badly we feel about lynching Grover. I'm starting to get a bad feeling for a start.

Grover, you seem to have a lot of different powers, abilities and goals. Are you a named character?

[Grover]

Narc, I am not a named character, other than knowing that I can become the Dragon Reborn. (Do I need to die for this to happen? I am unsure.)

I have the ability to use channel once a day as a male, with an unknown effect on the target.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Grover

And I have strong feelings the person I ended up protecting may be a wolf. I don't trust them, the way they have pushed against me the last couple of days. Plus they made a couple of telling comments about what they may do should they be a wolf. Too easy of a link? Maybe, but I'm not sold.

If its been the last couple of days then why would you protect them? Seems a bit odd.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

If its been the last couple of days then why would you protect them? Seems a bit odd.

Because I didn't realize that the power used on them would protect them.

[Grover]

As I said, as a male channeler the results are random and I actually have no idea what spell will be cast upon my target.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Raven

vote cheekimonk

This isn't a vote that should get any traction unless we're convinced Grover is telling the truth. If Grover's bad then it is 99% certain that cheeki is good to my mind otherwise the shadow would be taking a huge risk tying the vote, risking two of their numbers.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Grover

As I said, as a male channeler the results are random and I actually have no idea what spell will be cast upon my target.

Okey, got it.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Raven

I don't necessarily understand all the game mechanics yet, but I'm going to side with Grover here. I think he seems to be digging his own hole for some of you, but I don't think he'd vote nightfall if he was a wolf, especially this early in the day.

I'm going to vote for one of the guys whose action originally started the Grover reaction, and also put EF in the lead on the first vote.

Zinto unvote Grover, vote The Jackal

Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), fontisian (84), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151)
EagleFan [4] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153)
The Jackal [3] - Coffee Warlord (94), EagleFan (158), Zinto(160)
Grover [2] - path12 (147), cheekimonk (155)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

cheekimonk unvote Grover, Vote EagleFan

EagleFan [5] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153), cheekimonk(163)
Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), fontisian (84), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151)
The Jackal [3] - Coffee Warlord (94), EagleFan (158), Zinto(160)
Grover [1] - path12 (147)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

vote cheekimonk

So you went back to check that but didn't bother to check my explanation? Grover was my first vote because I wanted to park it somewhere and timmae, who invited me over here, had too many votes for me to put my meta on him. Once The Jackal, timmae, and EagleFan broke away from the pack, I was going to choose one of them because I wasn't going to waste my vote. I chose EF because he had a lot of following his voting lead...and doing it quickly.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

So you went back to check that but didn't bother to check my explanation? Grover was my first vote because I wanted to park it somewhere and timmae, who invited me over here, had too many votes for me to put my meta on him. Once The Jackal, timmae, and EagleFan broke away from the pack, I was going to choose one of them because I wasn't going to waste my vote. I chose EF because he had a lot of following his voting lead...and doing it quickly.

So you were following the pack by voting on EF, maybe just piling on so your vote wouldn't stick out or look suspicious?

That raises a red flag for me.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

This isn't a vote that should get any traction unless we're convinced Grover is telling the truth. If Grover's bad then it is 99% certain that cheeki is good to my mind otherwise the shadow would be taking a huge risk tying the vote, risking two of their numbers.

This. Whatever happened last night did not benefit me in any sense. In fact, it put me a coin flip away from the noose.

[Grover]

To expand on that. I realize you voted for me on Day One just to park a vote. Nobody has any info on that. That's fine.

But to say you went along with the vote on EF, who turned out to be our Seer, just because everybody else had piled on to him... well, that reeks like you're trying to hide yourself in the haystack. By pulling with the group, you're blending in. Wearing the sheep's clothing, so to speak.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Vaimes

when he's being wagoned, which. Sounds more like a frustrated town derp than scum wine.

Scum wine doesn't sound very appetising.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Grover

So you were following the pack by voting on EF, maybe just piling on so your vote wouldn't stick out or look suspicious?

That raises a red flag for me.

No. I was going to vote for one of the leaders (there were 3 at the time) so my vote wasn't wasted. I thought it suspicious that whenever EF changed his vote, or even announced that he suspected someone, there were 2-3 people taking his lead, so I chose EF. In fact, my vote was very conspicuous because he was calling me out for sticking to him when others were going to timmae or The Jackal. I openly defended my position.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Grover

To expand on that. I realize you voted for me on Day One just to park a vote. Nobody has any info on that. That's fine.

But to say you went along with the vote on EF, who turned out to be our Seer, just because everybody else had piled on to him... well, that reeks like you're trying to hide yourself in the haystack. By pulling with the group, you're blending in. Wearing the sheep's clothing, so to speak.

See my response to your first post accusing me of that.