Jerry Sandusky thread

[Toddzilla]

CMPunk
All I'm saying is,if I walk into a shower and witness that, only reason I'm walking out is to get a knife.That's a free pass to stab a dude

[Butter]

There is a reason that the grand jury lists McQueary's testimony as "extremely credible," and that he hasn't been fired yet. I don't know what it is, but I think it will come out in the coming weeks and months.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

CMPunk
All I'm saying is,if I walk into a shower and witness that, only reason I'm walking out is to get a knife.That's a free pass to stab a dude

Sadly, I'm giggling here, because it sounds like JUDGMENT FREE STABBING is really his prime motivation, and any incident would do. "All I'm saying is if I walk into your bedroom, and see you sleeping, and there are no witnesses around, that's a free pass to stab a dude!

[Logan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Has anyone heard from Dr. Sak? He is probably the biggest PSU fan on the board.

I was wondering the same earlier in the day, and I checked him out on Facebook and hadn't seen an update.

Hang tough good buddy.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He was still bringing kids on campus. There are reports of him taking kids as late as 2007 to Penn State practices. He was a fixture on campus, at games, and at bowls. The school even paid for him to take some of his victims to these bowl games.

Serious question for those defending Joe Paterno. A trusted employee comes to your home and tells you he saw a former employee who had previous allegations against him raping a 10 year old child. Do you honestly just push it up the chain and not pursue this? Do you honestly just ignore this when you see the predator around with kids again? I want to know if this is the way you would personally react to hearing something like this.

With all the focus on Paterno, he's not the monster in this case. Sandufsky is the one that should be getting crucified on all the stations, not Paterno.

It's really easy for everyone to cast judgement without knowing all the facts. I don't know them myself so I am taking a wait and see approach.

From what I hear Paterno and Sandufsky were friends. If someone comes to you and tells you that they saw your friend do something horrible your first reaction is going to be sceptical of the report. He did report it to his boss and his boss met with the witness. At that point Paterno's responsibility is done. It sounds like Paterno wasn't present in the meeting which happened after he reported it. What was he told at that point?

For all we know this could get even uglier than it is and in the end we'll all agree that Paterno should be stung up too. Until then the anger should be focused on the true dirtbag here, Sandufsky.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

With all the focus on Paterno, he's not the monster in this case. Sandufsky is the one that should be getting crucified on all the stations, not Paterno.

It's really easy for everyone to cast judgement without knowing all the facts. I don't know them myself so I am taking a wait and see approach.

From what I hear Paterno and Sandufsky were friends. If someone comes to you and tells you that they saw your friend do something horrible your first reaction is going to be sceptical of the report.

Would your second reaction be to promote the guy who is accusing your friend of the worst crime imaginable?

Come on guys, read the thread and catch up.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Video of the "riots" on CNN.

ESPN's Penn State Coverage Fails Miserably : Outkick The Coverage

This was, perhaps, the biggest live story in college sports history and ESPN was utterly incapable of providing any semblance of decent coverage. ESPN was bad that anyone with a brain flipped over to CNN and watched a British woman with no clue about American sports completely dominate the "worldwide leader in sports." We haven't seen a sports upset like this since Chaminade took down Ralph Sampson's Virginia.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

With all the focus on Paterno, he's not the monster in this case. Sandufsky is the one that should be getting crucified on all the stations, not Paterno.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that, but it's almost like there's nothing to say about the Sandusky part. It's horrifying, it's disgusting, but unfortunately there are people like that out there. The fact it appears an entire power structure was at best turning a blind eye and at worst enabling him is almost scarier here because most people thought/hoped we were past that at this point in time.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

With all the focus on Paterno, he's not the monster in this case. Sandufsky is the one that should be getting crucified on all the stations, not Paterno.

Sandusky has been crucified and will continue to be. People are now crucifying those who knowingly offered him up a pipeline for child rape.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

It's really easy for everyone to cast judgement without knowing all the facts. I don't know them myself so I am taking a wait and see approach.

It is really easy to cast judgement when it comes to "what would you do if you heard someone was anally raping children?". There are a lot of facts in the Grand Jury report.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

From what I hear Paterno and Sandufsky were friends. If someone comes to you and tells you that they saw your friend do something horrible your first reaction is going to be sceptical of the report. He did report it to his boss and his boss met with the witness. At that point Paterno's responsibility is done. It sounds like Paterno wasn't present in the meeting which happened after he reported it. What was he told at that point?

For all we know this could get even uglier than it is and in the end we'll all agree that Paterno should be stung up too. Until then the anger should be focused on the true dirtbag here, Sandufsky.

You are right that his legal responsibility was done when he passed it up. Morally, he is not in the clear. This was a man who he knew had previous allegations. He received a report from someone he trusted on what Sandusky was doing. He decided that passing it to someone else was good enough. That letting Sandusky continue to bring kids on campus, to practices, and even run his own football camp was perfectly fine.

If he was a janitor or something else, fine. But he has no business being a mentor to young men.

[Autumn]

People keep focusing on that one day in 2002 and saying "we don't know what Paterno knew." But we know a lot more than that. If you know a guy has been investigated multiple times for sexual relations with young boys, do you continue to invite him to your campus for years and years and years?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Until then the anger should be focused on the true dirtbag here, Sandufsky.

There are plenty of dirtbags here, no need to just direct it at the most obvious one.

[Autumn]

There are two trajectories here for Paterno after 2002:

A) He thinks McQueary made up a story about Sandusky raping a boy. He then promotes McQueary and continues to work with him for years.

B) He believes McQueary's story, knows Sandusky didn't get in trouble for raping a boy in Paterno's locker room, and continues to invite Sandusky to come hang out with young men on campus for the next nine years.

There really isn't any other possibility there. If your employee came up to you and accused someone of raping a little boy and you thought he was lying, would you promote this guy? If he came to you with this story and you knew that Sandusky have been investigated before for similar actions, would you decide he was making it up?

[BillJasper]

I don't think Paterno is a monster...

But this happened and continued to happen on his watch. I have a hard time believing that a member of the Penn State coaching staff was being investigated for child abuse and Paterno knew nothing about it. There was a lot of smoke around this guy and I can't believe that Paerno didn't ban him from campus after he retired.

Paterno is responsible for what went on with the program during his watch and this constitutes a major lapse on his part. I think it was totally appropriate for him to lose his job... regardless of what he knew.

[cartman]

Here's another example of just how 'not a pariah' he was at Penn State. He gave a commencement speech in 2007 to the Department of Health and Human Development.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_766543.html

[RainMaker]

I don't think Paterno is a monster per say. I do think Penn State football, its image, and his own legacy was more important than saving children who were being raped.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Logan

Would your second reaction be to promote the guy who is accusing your friend of the worst crime imaginable?

Come on guys, read the thread and catch up.

+1

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Logan

ESPN's Penn State Coverage Fails Miserably : Outkick The Coverage

I noticed the lack of live coverage also. Crazily, thinking they would have some live coverage, I switched over to Big Ten Network and found them airing a recent Michigan-N'western game.

Are you fucking kidding me?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by cartman

Here's another example of just how 'not a pariah' he was at Penn State. He gave a commencement speech in 2007 to the Department of Health and Human Development.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_766543.html

That is really pathetic. I wonder whos brilliant idea it was to have him give that speech? And how one can give a speech like that knowing all the hurt he has caused.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I noticed the lack of live coverage also. Crazily, thinking they would have some live coverage, I switched over to Big Ten Network and found them airing a recent Michigan-N'western game.

Are you fucking kidding me?

That is funny. I didnt even think of checking that channel.

[ISiddiqui]

So... about that Stagg-Paterno Big 10 Championship Trophy...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I noticed the lack of live coverage also. Crazily, thinking they would have some live coverage, I switched over to Big Ten Network and found them airing a recent Michigan-N'western game.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Well Matt Millen cried and they had to cover that for 30 minutes on SportsCenter.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I noticed the lack of live coverage also. Crazily, thinking they would have some live coverage, I switched over to Big Ten Network and found them airing a recent Michigan-N'western game.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Originally Posted by jbergey22

That is funny. I didnt even think of checking that channel.

Me neither, though right after reading the first post, I got an email from them saying that continuing Penn State coverage would be going on tonight.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

That is really pathetic. I wonder whos brilliant idea it was to have him give that speech? And how one can give a speech like that knowing all the hurt he has caused.

Might be some donors if this turns out to be true.

Penn State Scandal: Rumor Claims Sandusky “Pimped Out” Boys to Rich Donors - College Football - Rivals.com

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Might be some donors if this turns out to be true.

Penn State Scandal: Rumor Claims Sandusky “Pimped Out” Boys to Rich Donors - College Football - Rivals.com

Yikes

I think someone posted a tweet from that earlier but it was later said to be just a rumor.

[Logan]

One interesting thing I did pick up from Mark Madden that I hadn't seen elsewhere (correct me if I'm wrong)...

MarkMaddenX Mark Madden
McQ dad a key. He was there when McQ talked to Joe. Knows exactly what was said. Cud catch Joe in perjury. Wont let son cover 4 Joe.

MarkMaddenX Mark Madden
Thats Y McQ is still coaching. Once he's out, he's gonna talk. PSt trying 2control that as long as they can.

I had thought it was only McQueary and Paterno who had met.

[Autumn]

Yeah, that's what I've been wondering, if they're not firing McQ because they don't dare get him on their bad side.

[Logan]

It's a fair thought, but I'd think him coming clean on whatever he knows would be the only way his reputation could be improved (even if slightly).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Yeah, that's what I've been wondering, if they're not firing McQ because they don't dare get him on their bad side.

Takes time to put together a massive severance package that will ensure he doesn't speak out.

[Butter]

McQueary met with Schulz and Curley also. That's why they have perjury raps pending.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

McQueary met with Schulz and Curley also. That's why they have perjury raps pending.

Right, I knew that. I thought that his meeting with Paterno was just the two of them. Hadn't seen it reported anywhere that the father was present too.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Logan

Right, I knew that. I thought that his meeting with Paterno was just the two of them. Hadn't seen it reported anywhere that the father was present too.

I hadn't seen this either. It appears things are looking to get much worse in the next few weeks.

[molson]

Mark Madden did get some well-deserved positive press for writing about this when it first went public months ago when nobody else cared, but he is otherwise a pretty shady character. Take any rumors he's throwing out there with a grain of salt until someone else jumps in.

[Logan]

I'm with you on that molson, it's why I deleted the initial rumor in the first place (not saying I feel like it shouldn't have been posted anyway).


BTW, I exchanged a few emails with Sak. He's staying out of this thread for obvious reasons. It's an emotional time for him, but he's okay.

[RomaGoth]

Interesting take on Madden from Deadspin:

Three Reasons To Be Skeptical Of The Sandusky Kiddie-Sex-Ring Rumor, And One Reason Not To Be

[molson]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Ummmmmmmmm....what? I was saying you can't take a chance on not reporting something. What does your statement have to do with that?

It probably wasn't directly responsive to you, but we were getting into whether one should report if they're 99% sure nothing happened, or at least, how much that sucks for the innocent people whose lives are ruined, and whether parents should allow their kids to take part in mentor-type programs, and whether men should volunteer for such programs with the risk that they'll be labeled as sex abusers. Just all the collateral damage of this. I am generally wary of child abuse paranoia and how damaging it can be in a society. I understand "protect the kids at any cost, if there's any possibility of risk!!!!", it is just is really unfortunate, because there is risk everywhere, no matter what you do. It's just a matter of where you draw the line on it, and I'm hearing some extreme views on that (though not particularly relevant to this case.) Just more collateral side effects of what people like Sandusky do.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

McQueary met with Schulz and Curley also. That's why they have perjury raps pending.

And, I think, because Schultz and Curley told the grand jury that McQueary told them something different than what McQueary testifies that he told them, and they found McQueary more credible. (If that's all the prosecution has, it will be tough to convict Schultz and Curley - McQueary's credibility can be easily destroyed on cross-examination.)

The Grand jury did not find similar inconsistencies between what McQueary and Paterno said about their exchange. Without knowing all the details, I'd certainly expect that Paterno was told as little as possible. Sure, he should have made it his business to learn more, and follow up, and learn more after that, and here we are, he's rightfully fired. But just for me, he's in a lower tier of guilt. Of course, a guy that old probably shouldn't have been in that kind of position to have that kind of authority anyway, I still think the % of 75+ people that botch that is going to be quite high.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

but he is otherwise a pretty shady character. Take any rumors he's throwing out there with a grain of salt until someone else jumps in.

I think that's a pretty fair assessment of the former WCW commentator.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Autumn

There are two trajectories here for Paterno after 2002:

A) He thinks McQueary made up a story about Sandusky raping a boy. He then promotes McQueary and continues to work with him for years.

B) He believes McQueary's story, knows Sandusky didn't get in trouble for raping a boy in Paterno's locker room, and continues to invite Sandusky to come hang out with young men on campus for the next nine years.

There really isn't any other possibility there. If your employee came up to you and accused someone of raping a little boy and you thought he was lying, would you promote this guy? If he came to you with this story and you knew that Sandusky have been investigated before for similar actions, would you decide he was making it up?

Ding ding ding. We have a winnah.

[stevew]

This new twist is some shit that makes me so violently ill that I think we should expand the usage of the death penalty in PA.

[Chubby]

coincidence this comes out after win 409? coincidence no big hoopla over JoePa passing Robinson?

me thinks not

[MizzouRah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfzLeSODZqw

Couldn't agree more, bravo sir, bravo.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Autumn

There are two trajectories here for Paterno after 2002:

A) He thinks McQueary made up a story about Sandusky raping a boy. He then promotes McQueary and continues to work with him for years.

B) He believes McQueary's story, knows Sandusky didn't get in trouble for raping a boy in Paterno's locker room, and continues to invite Sandusky to come hang out with young men on campus for the next nine years.

There really isn't any other possibility there. If your employee came up to you and accused someone of raping a little boy and you thought he was lying, would you promote this guy? If he came to you with this story and you knew that Sandusky have been investigated before for similar actions, would you decide he was making it up?

There's other possibilities. I still think the most likely is that McQueary told him "something" but left a lot out to spare Paterno the details, and to protect him. He knew Sandusky was a weird perv, and knew his superiors knew about it, and he figured that was enough, and he didn't want to get involved any more than that. He probably thought, "that's going to catch up to that old perv someday". He was indifferent to whether Sandusky was on campus or not and with who, that just didn't click with him one way or another. You don't have to sign in with Paterno to get on campus each time. This is an old guy who's always been "in charge" and powerful, but day-to-day, I don't think he's been involved too much in the nuts and bolts for decades. He wanted others to deal with it, and he wanted to stand around on a football field and feel like he was involved. A great moral example? Of course not, but I think in these cases we can make a mistake that everything everyone does and doesn't do is a thought out, conscious decision after consideration of the consequences. That isn't true for anyone, and its even less true for old people. He's an old guy that's fading, and blew stuff off that he shouldn't have blown off, because he thought others were responsible

[Buccaneer]

I'm curious, when other organizations asked about Sandusky since he was let go, what was the excuse given? Spend more time with his family?

[molson]

Originally Posted by stevew

This new twist is some shit that makes me so violently ill that I think we should expand the usage of the death penalty in PA.

I'm developing some radical opinions after years in the criminal justice system. I think we should decriminalize about 90% of criminally proscribed behavior, put it all into the civil realm - no juries, no overbearing procedural rights - but you get a small fine if convicted. A very small amount people we send up the river for a while, with a focus on maturity and education. And we expand capital crimes by about 10X. (we're ignoring the supreme court in my hypothetical world). You're either a human worth saving or you're not. I don't get locking up people if we think they're salvageable, but I get putting them down if they're not. DO I HAVE YOUR VOTE?!

[molson]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I'm curious, when other organizations asked about Sandusky since he was let go, what was the excuse given? Spend more time with his family?

The story out of Penn St was that he wanted to dedicate time to his charity. But then a year later he's the leading candidate at Virginia. Someone who was at Virginia said (in a recent article), that they were concerned that he was too connected to the charity back in PA, and they thought it would take too much of his time. I have a hunch that there were rumors about Sandusky that spread to Virginia and further.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Chubby

coincidence this comes out after win 409? coincidence no big hoopla over JoePa passing Robinson?

me thinks not

During a bye week as well.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Penn State

Statement from Penn State Athletics
Nov. 10, 2011

UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. - Due to multiple threats made against Assistant Coach Mike McQueary, the University has decided it would be in the best interest of all for Assistant Coach McQueary not to be in attendance at Saturday's Nebraska game.

Penn State University Official Athletic Site - Football

[molson]

They kind of lucked out with those "threats" so they could make a "safety-related" decision here. I think whoever it was that posted there might be some big time legal issues when you fire a whistleblower was right on.

Edit: Also, Tom Osborne warns fans not to wear red to the game, so they won't stand out. That'd be kind of insulting, if not for the student response last night. Still, this game is starting to feel like a bad idea altogether. Though its one that should deliver solid ratings!

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Penn State University Official Athletic Site - Football

The timing was off in my Facebook post, but the point still stands.

[cartman]

JoePa is reportedly seeking out a criminal defense lawyer.

Report: Paterno sought criminal defense lawyer - CBS News