Katrina hits Category 5.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

To N.O. exiles: apparently text messaging IS working on 504 area code phones.

I heard that. And have been sending. Of course, it will take something more than that to teach my Mom how to realize that she has a text message and send one in reply.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

I'm curious, since you are a resident of the areas affected what are your plans for the next month?

Good question. One I realized from looking at the cross-sectional topography maps that our place is actually one of the higher elevation levels in the city since it is very close to the Mississippi River. So, if looters don't break into our home (a big if) and if the roof and windows weren't damaged, we should have a home to go back to.

The plan right now is to head to NJ, which is where I'm originally from and where my very large family still lives. My mom is 1 of 13 kids and we have lots of uncles, aunts, and such that are offering us a place to stay.

The questions I'm trying to determine is:

Does LSU Medical School want me to move to Baton Rouge and find a place to live there and are we going to be working there?

If LSU tells me, sorry we don't have a paying job for you right now, than I'll almost certainly head to NJ until it is safe to return to New Orleans (a few months?)

I imagine I will try to find a job at a clinic or something temporarily in NJ. I know my medical school desperately wanted to hire me as staff for their psychiatry department last year. Are they going to want me to work for 3 months? Doubtful.

Also, I'd have to get a temporary license and a permanent license to practice medicine in NJ (really just a matter of paperwork) as I've put off getting my NJ license for the past year or two. I've put that off because I figured I still had time to do so in case we ever wanted to move back to NJ (It has to be done within 10 years of graduating medical school or you have to take tests if you wait longer.)

If it is only going to be a month (which seems more doubtful) than I probably won't work as hard to make sure that I find a job.

I guess ultimately, there are just many questions still. Least I have a big family that wants to see me, and I also have a fairly good amount of money built up (we were saving for a target of 100k down on a home by June of next year.) So, we'll be able to pay for our food and whatever while we are up in NJ staying at my relatives (rather than just being leeches.)

However, I think I'm going to talk to Mrs. Eaglesfan in a bit and see about extending the room one more day, so that I can see if there is anything posted from the LSU Medical School conference tomorrow to make sure they don't want us to return to Baton Rouge or some other area.

[HomerJSimpson]

I'd wait, EF. I'd say there is a pretty good chance you'll be heading to Baton Rouge.

[WSUCougar]

On CNN.com:

New Orleans mayor says Katrina killed hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of people in city, Associated Press reports.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

Interesting. My wife called about 15 minutes ago to tell me that at a little podunk gas station near her work there were 8 cars at the pumps and 15 cars waiting in line.

Mini-version of gas hell around here right now. Lines are into the street at every station in town, price literally jumped 50 cents while I was in line, it's up 71 cents since 10 a.m. Adjacent county (Putnam) is out of gas, school officials are rumored to be trying to determine if they have enough on hand to run buses tomorrow or if they'll go ahead & shut down for the week. Reports of most stations being out in at least northern Bibb County as well (that's Macon area).

And the people in line? Well, let's just say I appeared to be one of the calmest & least agitated people trying to get gas. When I'm the voice of reason ... well, at that point you're probably pretty screwed.

[Wolfpack]

I am sooooooo glad I tanked up on Sunday.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Good question. One I realized from looking at the cross-sectional topography maps that our place is actually one of the higher elevation levels in the city since it is very close to the Mississippi River. So, if looters don't break into our home (a big if) and if the roof and windows weren't damaged, we should have a home to go back to.

The plan right now is to head to NJ, which is where I'm originally from and where my very large family still lives. My mom is 1 of 13 kids and we have lots of uncles, aunts, and such that are offering us a place to stay.

The questions I'm trying to determine is:

Does LSU Medical School want me to move to Baton Rouge and find a place to live there and are we going to be working there?

If LSU tells me, sorry we don't have a paying job for you right now, than I'll almost certainly head to NJ until it is safe to return to New Orleans (a few months?)

I imagine I will try to find a job at a clinic or something temporarily in NJ. I know my medical school desperately wanted to hire me as staff for their psychiatry department last year. Are they going to want me to work for 3 months? Doubtful.

Also, I'd have to get a temporary license and a permanent license to practice medicine in NJ (really just a matter of paperwork) as I've put off getting my NJ license for the past year or two. I've put that off because I figured I still had time to do so in case we ever wanted to move back to NJ (It has to be done within 10 years of graduating medical school or you have to take tests if you wait longer.)

If it is only going to be a month (which seems more doubtful) than I probably won't work as hard to make sure that I find a job.

I guess ultimately, there are just many questions still. Least I have a big family that wants to see me, and I also have a fairly good amount of money built up (we were saving for a target of 100k down on a home by June of next year.) So, we'll be able to pay for our food and whatever while we are up in NJ staying at my relatives (rather than just being leeches.)

However, I think I'm going to talk to Mrs. Eaglesfan in a bit and see about extending the room one more day, so that I can see if there is anything posted from the LSU Medical School conference tomorrow to make sure they don't want us to return to Baton Rouge or some other area.

EF, I didn't realize LSU was the school you were offer a contract to?

I would personally stay one more night, and wait to see what happens. At least the lone bright spot is you get to be with your wife (which doesn't happen often, correct?) and family.

I am curious, how is the NO airport? Is that flooded or damaged? Are flights grounded?

[Eaglesfan27]

Yeah, I work for LSU Medical School. I just extended the rooms for one more night (til Friday morning) so I can see what happens with the conference tomorrow. Hopefully, they post results of the conference and a plan tomorrow.

The NO Airport is reportedly in very good condition. It is open only for humanitarian flights such as evacuating medical emergencies or flying in supply/personel to help the region.


Edit: I was also offered a job as a professor at Tulane's Medical School and it was a very tough decision for a variety of reasons.

[GoldenEagle]

The rumor around my school is that we will be getting some students from Tulane and other schools damaged by the storm. It turns out we have quite a few openings in our dorm. That would be quite a drop off, going from Tulane to Delta State.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Yeah, I work for LSU Medical School. I just extended the rooms for one more night (til Friday morning) so I can see what happens with the conference tomorrow. Hopefully, they post results of the conference and a plan tomorrow.

The NO Airport is reportedly in very good condition. It is open only for humanitarian flights such as evacuating medical emergencies or flying in supply/personel to help the region.


Edit: I was also offered a job as a professor at Tulane's Medical School and it was a very tough decision for a variety of reasons.

Sounds like your wife and yourself are very good at what you do, so at least you have plenty of options in terms of jobs.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I am sooooooo glad I tanked up on Sunday.

I meant to fill up before I went to work Monday morning but forgot. Gas was at $2.50 at that point. When I got off of work eight hours later I filled up (luckily I was only down a 1/4 tank) at $2.53. Yesterday gas was up to $2.65. A couple of hours ago it was up to $2.79.

I'm really glad that I have a very short drive to work and that my car gets good mileage...

[Crapshoot]

Roffle- I told my roommate Sunday night to go out and get gas, and to buy foreign based oil stock (those without Gulf of Mexico operations) - so far, fine on that end. That being said, I dont think the oil disruption will be that immense, as it appears- those rigs are built to withstand pretty much everything/

[wbatl1]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Roffle- I told my roommate Sunday night to go out and get gas, and to buy foreign based oil stock (those without Gulf of Mexico operations) - so far, fine on that end. That being said, I dont think the oil disruption will be that immense, as it appears- those rigs are built to withstand pretty much everything/

Good news is most of the Gulf oil equipment was not damaged badly. Problem is that the shore based stuff needs powere, and also the gas is being rationed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/12524944.htm

First reports of gas outtages in central Georgia (the places they're talking about are 1+ hours south of me, but similarly located kinda away from the bigger cities of Atlanta & Macon).

[HomerJSimpson]

I don't get paid till tommorow. I have about enough right to buy 1 gallon of gas. One vehicle is totally out of gas, and the other has a quarter of a tank. I'm screwed.

[KevinNU7]

EF thanks for sharing. It's good to know you have a place to turn. It is also great to know you have a bit of a nest egg to live on (I wish I did). From your reading I determined that you weren't a home owner, I guess that's good news considering the trouble you'd have to go through with that right now.

I hope all your stuff stays safe

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Gas stations here are swamped. There are rumors that you will not be able to get gas for a couple of days and that when they do reopen, it will be $4 a gallon.

I also heard a thing on the local radio that evacuees were looking for temp work. There is a common solution to this all. The government should open up hubs in Houston, Memphis, etc and put them to work. They could open up temp schools, etc near by.

Opening up Public works program akin to the CCC of the 1930's should put them back to work.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

On CNN.com:

I wouldnt doubt it. I wouldnt doubt the final overall too to be in the 4 if not 5 figure range.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Remember how I was saying my sister's boyfriend is in the MS National Guard? Well, he did not have to go down to the coast (already doing a tour in Iraq does wonders for getting out of stuff) but he talked to one of his friends down there. Again, this heresay, but the friend said there are dead bodies everywhere. They are washing up, caught in trees, etc. He said the death total in MS alone will shock people.

I don't mean to sound insensitive but when Wolf Blizter was acting almost surprised that the mayor of New Orleans said maybe thouands were dead, I just wanted to dope lap him and say "no kidding".

SI

[WSUCougar]

A grim assessment that I read on another board:

I've got an engineering background. I do understand the magnitude of this disaster for New Orleans. It will be a massive undertaking just to restore the levees, pump all the water out of the city, and begin drying out. And that's just the water issue, for a city that exists below sea level next to the Gulf Coast prone to terrible hurricanes which have historically hit with comparable devastating results.

Beyond the water issue, the city will have to contend with the fact that most everything has been submerged for an extended period of time. Buildings, roads and bridges, utilities, all electrical equipment and everything else not designed for submersion will most likely fail to meet applicable regulatory codes and require complete replacement or significant repairs. The cost of doing that for an entire major city is mind boggling.

And then there's the environmental issue. Besides dead bodies and filth and vermin and such, there's toxic chemicals and other hazardous materials being released which will saturate the city. The cost to decontaminate the city to meet EPA regulatory standards will also be mind boggling, unless of course they're waived which then begs the question why we even have such stringent standards.

So. That's just a blunt assessment of the situation, as engineers are wont to do, and I don't mean to sound negative. The emotional reaction is of course to "rebuild the city - just like before!" and "do whatever it takes!" Maybe. But the real costs of recovering from this particular disaster may well prove to be prohibitive. We might just see officials reach a conclusion to completely evacuate and condemn an entire major US city. But probably not. Regardless of what decision is ultimately made, the recovery effort and cost is going to be mind boggling.

Prayers and best wishes for the people who lived there.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

A grim assessment that I read on another board:

That's more along the lines of what I was thinking when I posed the question about rebuilding on a much smaller scale.

[albionmoonlight]

Even if/when you spend the money to rebuild the city, how many businesses just won't exist anymore. My brother in law works for a refrigeration supply company whose main competition is based in Wisconsin. There is a good chance that by the time they are able to be up and running, there won't be any clients left.

Multiply that by the thousands of small businesses in the area and you start to get a sense of it.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I don't mean to sound insensitive but when Wolf Blizter was acting almost surprised that the mayor of New Orleans said maybe thouands were dead, I just wanted to slap him and say "no kidding, you dope".

SI

Saw that too. I cant believe someone who has been in the news busuness can act soo naive.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

EF thanks for sharing. It's good to know you have a place to turn. It is also great to know you have a bit of a nest egg to live on (I wish I did). From your reading I determined that you weren't a home owner, I guess that's good news considering the trouble you'd have to go through with that right now.

I hope all your stuff stays safe

Thanks. Nope, I'm not a home owner. At worst, I lose about 10-15,000 dollars worth of stuff (plus some sentimental stuff that we just couldn't fit into the cars.)

[Wolfpack]

He may be naive, but quite honestly, no one went into this thing looking for a Galveston-style body count. We just don't have huge numbers of casualties in hurricanes in this country anymore, so to start talking "thousands dead" is something that's a little challenging to get the mind around. Sure, intellectually, you can size up the deficiences and failures in New Orleans and come to a conclusion that hundreds or thousands died, but the actual acceptance of that is a little tougher to do, especially since, unlike 9/11, we could anticipate this disaster and still lost all those people.

[WSUCougar]

I didn't see it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Wolf's reaction was done for effect.

[Eaglesfan27]

I just emailed the person in charge of coordinating medical care on behalf of the state's disaster management response because I read on wwltv's website that they are looking for doctors (and an email address was given.) If they are willing to guarantee that an apartment will be available for rent that will house my family, or that another similar housing arrangement will be available to house my family (including pets) I'll head back to either Baton Rouge or one of the other medical staging areas to help treat patients.

I'm anxiously waiting for a reply (but realize it might take some time depending upon how many doctor's are writing her.)

[GoldenEagle]

Here is an interesting article from a UK paper:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...246049,00.html

[WSUCougar]

For the click-challenged:

By DANICA KIRKA

Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria (AP) - From papal prayers to telegrams from China, the world reacted with an outpouring of compassion Wednesday for the victims of Hurricane Katrina in messages tinged by shock that a disaster of this scale could occur in the United States.

Islamic extremists rejoiced in America's misfortune, giving the storm a military rank and declaring in Internet chatter that ``Private'' Katrina had joined the global jihad, or holy war. With ``God's help,'' they declared, oil prices would hit $100 a barrel this year.

Venezuela's government, which has had tense relations with Washington, offered humanitarian aid and fuel if requested.

The storm was seen as an equalizer - proof that any country, weak or strong, can be victimized by a natural disaster. Images of flood-ravaged New Orleans earned particular sympathy in central Europe, where dozens died in raging floodwaters only days ago.

``Nature proved that no matter how rich and economically developed you are, you can't fight it,'' says Danut Afasei, a local official in Romania's Harghita county, where flooding killed 13 people last week.

Throughout Europe, concerned citizens lamented the loss of life and the damage caused to New Orleans, often described as one of North America's most ``European'' cities.

French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder sent messages of sympathy to President Bush. Chirac, who has famously quarreled with Bush over the Iraq war, addressed this letter, ``Dear George.''

Pope Benedict XVI said he was praying for victims of the ``tragic'' hurricane while China's President Hu Jintao expressed his ``belief that that the American people will definitely overcome the natural disaster and rebuild their beautiful homeland.''

Britain's Queen Elizabeth II also sent a message to Bush saying she was ``deeply shocked and saddened'' at the devastation caused by the hurricane and expressing her condolences, ``especially to the families of those who have lost their lives, to the injured and to all who have been affected by this terrible disaster.''

The U.S. Embassy in Bern, Switzerland - a capital at the foot of the Alps hit by flooding last week - said calls were rushing in from Swiss individuals and institutions looking for a way to donate to relief efforts.

``We are getting calls from the Swiss public looking to express their condolences, (and) people are also asking for an account number where they can make donations,'' said spokesman Daniel Wendell.

The Internet-edition Vienna daily Der Standard had recorded 820 postings commenting on a front-page story on the hurricane. In one of the postings, signature ``Emerald'' asked where money could be donated to the victims, but the question sparked a debate about whether a rich country like the United States needed such aid.

In response, one posting, from signature ``far out,'' argued that hurricane victims who are poor still needed support.

Amid the sympathy, however, there was criticism.

As U.S. military engineers struggled to shore up breached levees, experts in the Netherlands expressed surprise that New Orleans' flood systems failed to restrain the raging waters.

With half of the country's population of 16 million living below sea level, the Netherlands prepared for a ``perfect storm'' soon after floods in 1953 killed 2,000 people. The nation installed massive hydraulic sea walls.

``I don't want to sound overly critical, but it's hard to imagine that (the damage caused by Katrina) could happen in a Western country,'' said Ted Sluijter, spokesman for the park where the sea walls are exhibited. ``It seemed like plans for protection and evacuation weren't really in place, and once it happened, the coordination was on loose hinges.''

The sympathy was muted in some corners by a sense that the United States reaped what it sowed, since the country is seen as the main contributor to global warming.

Joern Ehlers, a spokesman for World Wildlife Fund Germany, said global warming had increased the intensity of hurricanes.

``The Americans have a big impact on the greenhouse effect,'' Ehlers said.

But Harlan L. Watson, the U.S. envoy for negotiations on climate change, denied any link between global warming and the strength of storms.

``Our scientists are telling us right now that there's not a linkage,'' he said in Geneva. ``I'll rely on their information.''

[JonInMiddleGA]

The U.S. Embassy in Bern, Switzerland - a capital at the foot of the Alps hit by flooding last week - said calls were rushing in from Swiss individuals and institutions looking for a way to donate to relief efforts.

``We are getting calls from the Swiss public looking to express their condolences, (and) people are also asking for an account number where they can make donations,'' said spokesman Daniel Wendell.

Not meaning to belittle any of the other expressions at all, but I thought this was particularly classy on their part.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

For the click-challenged:

Seems like the ''enlightened'' dutch and europeans try to spit on our face again. Lets see something big like this happen to their country.

[Ben E Lou]

Here's one thing I haven't heard yet: now that the water has reached equilibrium, I assume that the agenda would be (broadly speaking)...

1. fix the breaches in the levees
2. get the water out
3. assess rebuilding needs

My main question would be regarding #2. How long is it expected to take to get all that water out of the city? This isn't a normal flood scenario, where the waters eventually recede.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Here's one thing I haven't heard yet: now that the water has reached equilibrium, I assume that the agenda would be (broadly speaking)...

1. fix the breaches in the levees
2. get the water out
3. assess rebuilding needs

My main question would be regarding #2. How long is it expected to take to get all that water out of the city? This isn't a normal flood scenario, where the waters eventually recede.

using the pumps they already have I guess? but i think it gets pumped into the lake which is obviously well above normal levels so I have no idea...

[terpkristin]

In terms of pictures, I've also been scouting through the flickr Hurricane Katrina pool of pictures, to see if there's any more information that can be gleaned from those pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/45871688@N00/

/tk

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Here's one thing I haven't heard yet: now that the water has reached equilibrium, I assume that the agenda would be (broadly speaking)...

1. fix the breaches in the levees
2. get the water out
3. assess rebuilding needs

My main question would be regarding #2. How long is it expected to take to get all that water out of the city? This isn't a normal flood scenario, where the waters eventually recede.

I've seen a Corps of Engineers estimate of 30 days once the levee is repaired.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

Seems like the ''enlightened'' dutch and europeans try to spit on our face again. Lets see something big like this happen to their country.

Well, the Dutch do tend to be a very blunt people. It's part of their charm. And based on the diagrams of the city in the "New Orleans" threads, if the Duthcman is right and there are superior technologies available that could have prevented the breach of the levies (assuming it's not completely outrageous, and if the Netherlands can do it, I assume it's not), he has a point.

[KevinNU7]

The Dutch don't have hurricanes. It's completely different then what their system is set-up to take

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

Seems like the ''enlightened'' dutch and europeans try to spit on our face again. Lets see something big like this happen to their country.

Huh? That's some selective reading there, chief. There is only a few of comments for criticism (and some hit right on the mark, honestly), but the majority of it is people actually saying they want to help. I don't know why, but it is nice to see.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

In terms of pictures, I've also been scouting through the flickr Hurricane Katrina pool of pictures, to see if there's any more information that can be gleaned from those pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/45871688@N00/

/tk

Some of those pictures are from damage of Mississippi College which is about two and half hours inland. You can only imagine what the coast looks like. There is a report that one of the 4A high schools, D'Iberville, has completely vanished. Also, the MHSAA has cancelled all high school football games for the state.

[Eaglesfan27]

I think the logistical problems behind building that gate between Lake Ponchartrain and the Gulf would seem to be quite significant. The Lake isn't right against the Gulf and it would seem there would be multiple problems in making that work. However, I certainly hope they come up with some plan that works to protect the city in the future.

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think the logistical problems behind building that gate between Lake Ponchartrain and the Gulf would seem to be quite significant. The Lake isn't right against the Gulf and it would seem there would be multiple problems in making that work. However, I certainly hope they come up with some plan that works to protect the city in the future.

And I don't know if it would work. As the water level in the Gulf rises as the hurricane approaches it could fill the Lake up and spill into the City that way

[GoldenEagle]

Is anyone else having trouble getting cell phone access? I use Cellular South and I really can not make any calls. I am not sure if anyone has been trying to call me. I am sure it has something do with maybe a tower or two being knocked down and overload the functioning towers.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think the logistical problems behind building that gate between Lake Ponchartrain and the Gulf would seem to be quite significant. The Lake isn't right against the Gulf and it would seem there would be multiple problems in making that work. However, I certainly hope they come up with some plan that works to protect the city in the future.

From what I've read, the system is so complicated that a lot of things they do to help against hurricanes often have unexpected consequences. For example I read that a new hurricane baffle/bridge that was built across the canal that has now broken is too low for barges with construction cranes to get across, slowing the effort to seal the breach.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Is anyone else having trouble getting cell phone access? I use Cellular South and I really can not make any calls. I am not sure if anyone has been trying to call me. I am sure it has something do with maybe a tower or two being knocked down and overload the functioning towers.

Plus the towers have to hook back into landlines at some point, so I'm sure that there are tons of substations that are still flooded or without power.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

To anyone in Atlanta area: CNN is reporting that gas is as high as $4.99 and is strictly rationed because of a 10 day supply. can anyone confirm this?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

To anyone in Atlanta area: CNN is reporting that gas is as high as $4.99 and is strictly rationed because of a 10 day supply. can anyone confirm this?

I'm heading out the door of the office in a few moments. I'll pass several gas stations on the way home. I'll let you know the prices.

--Ben

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

To anyone in Atlanta area: CNN is reporting that gas is as high as $4.99 and is strictly rationed because of a 10 day supply. can anyone confirm this?

Good god! If this moves up north I won't be able to drive to work

[panerd]

Call this the skeptic in me, but weren't gas prices on Sept 11, 2001 spiking like 75-100%? And within a few days they were back to a somewhat reasonable price. I am in the belief that our worries of a major 70's like oil crisis are way overblown and those who are buying the gas at $3/$4 a gallon are just being bullied by the gas stations.

[Radii]

My wife was driving home and saw 10+ car lines going out into the streets and highways at many gas stations in the Duluth and Norcross areas(NE Atlanta), but the highest price she saw was $3.27. Someone I know at work said that his wife saw gas nearing $5.00 on Memorial Drive near Stone Mountain. I don't know that area well though to point out an exacat location.

[Chubby]

I would love to know how they can justify the hurricane spiking gas prices right now since the gas was obviously drilled and refined a while ago and certainly well before the hurricane.

it's just people making a buck