Soccer Thread 2015-16

[MIJB#19]

9 2/3rd games too late, but finally some fighting spirit for Oranje.

[MIJB#19]

If my math was correct, Turkey has qualified as the best third placed team.

[PilotMan]

I think the US should hope for a boycott in 2018.

[MrBug708]

But seriously...this team is terrible

[PilotMan]

First 3-game home losing streak in 28 years. Oooof.

[MizzouCowboy]

Ugly. I'm not sure how much worse this can get, but it sure does look like a steaming pile of crap.

[rowech]

I turned it off at the half. Couldn't bear it. Those guys simply don't want to play for him anymore. It was flat out awful.

[Easy Mac]

That second half was a fucking atrocity. Did Danny Williams complete or receive a pass the entire second half? How does Ventura Alvarado keep playing?

This is one of those games where in FM you lose close, but the best player on your team gets maybe a 6.8, and no one (but the keeper) gets over a 6.5.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by rowech

I turned it off at the half. Couldn't bear it. Those guys simply don't want to play for him anymore. It was flat out awful.

If you felt the 1st half was awful, you would literally have no way to describe the 2nd half. The US completed maybe 35% of their passes for maybe 20% of possession.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

First 3-game home losing streak in 28 years. Oooof.

#KlinsmannOut

[flere-imsaho]

So maybe Van Gaal knew what he was doing, eh?

Sorry, MIJB.

[The Jackal]

but guys joel campbell is super good how could we expect to stop him from scoring

[The Jackal]

also, i've always liked the netherlands, but can we all take a moment to laugh at RVP again, or for the first time if you haven't already

[Solecismic]

The three Netherlands home results this year might collectively be the most shocking results I've ever seen.

Someone who follows the Orange could probably explain this easily. There are ebbs and flows with any national side - we're certainly witnessing an ebb with the US team.

But... 1-1 Turkey, 0-1 Iceland, 2-3 Czech Republic... 4th place in group A for a side that appeared in the 2010 World Cup final. It can change rapidly if you chain yourself to one small group of players.

I don't mind the US losing a home friendly under these circumstances. But I don't have confidence we're doing a reasonable job scouring the talent we have at the under-23 level.

[flere-imsaho]

Here's a good take: Holland’s dramatic fall from Total Football to total desperation | Jacob Steinberg | Football | The Guardian

Yet Johan Cruyff has since argued finishing third masked Holland’s flaws. They were fortunate to beat Mexico in the second round, needed penalties to beat Costa Rica after a 0-0 draw in their quarter-final and although they held Lionel Messi’s Argentina to another goalless draw in their semi-final, their luck ran out in the shootout. Their football was never convincing during the knockout stages and, sure enough, the cracks have emerged. Holland have lost eight of their 14 matches since the World Cup and their four victories in qualifying came against Latvia and Kazakhstan. Beating Spain in a friendly in March meant nothing. Spain will be in France next summer after winning their group.

Before the World Cup, Van Gaal realised Holland had weaknesses and he tweaked his system accordingly, a 5-3-2 formation allowing them to catch Spain by surprise. However when Guus Hiddink replaced Van Gaal, his decision to employ the traditional 4-3-3 system backfired.

Although Holland were slightly unfortunate to find themselves in a difficult group – the Czechs are always difficult opponents, this is a golden Icelandic generation and Turkey have improved – they should not use that as an excuse for their shortcomings. It is hard not to reason that previous Dutch sides would have qualified.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

The three Netherlands home results this year might collectively be the most shocking results I've ever seen.

Someone who follows the Orange could probably explain this easily. There are ebbs and flows with any national side - we're certainly witnessing an ebb with the US team.

But... 1-1 Turkey, 0-1 Iceland, 2-3 Czech Republic... 4th place in group A for a side that appeared in the 2010 World Cup final. It can change rapidly if you chain yourself to one small group of players.

I don't mind the US losing a home friendly under these circumstances. But I don't have confidence we're doing a reasonable job scouring the talent we have at the under-23 level.

Looking back on the Euro2016 qualification, our team (the Netherlands) had three games where everything that could go wrong went wrong (away Czechia, home Iceland, home Czechia). At the same time, the away game at Iceland was a much deserved loss, both games against Turkey should have been losses (the 1-1 tie in Amsterdam actually was lucky). The only game Oranje was decent in the entire qualification, was the home game against Latvia.

Some will point to the injuries of Strootman (boy, do I hope he'll ever return to the game ), Robben (he missed the majority), Vlaar, De Vrij, the mental issues of Martins Indi, the out of shapeness of Van Persie, feuds between Van Persie and Huntelaar and Memphis, and so on. But fact is, as I mentioned earlier, there was too little fighting spirit, too much 'we'll get there anyway' mentality. It gets you so far with a so-so series, but when disaster strikes, lack of mentality will make this happen. We should learn from what Iceland and Czechia brought to the turf in mentality.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Seriously, FIRE him. I will say again I don't give a crap. But I don't see this team as good, talented or anything else. The first touch and possession are a joke. Creativity? Nope. Soccer IQ? Nope.

Look, I hope you get your wish, only because I want to see how people respond when the next coach gets his ass handed to him. If I'm wrong, I'll be here stating that I'm a complete and total moron and you can laugh at me. We'll both be happy.

I don't see it. I just don't.

I was on the side defending Klinsmann before WC2014, but I think one World Cup cycle is enough. I'm also not someone who demands we get out of the WC group stage every time or has unrealistic expectations, or someone who thinks a new coach will automatically fix everything (it's soccer - how many national team managers even make it 2 years?). But we've regressed on the field, our IQ and first touch have actually gotten worse if anything, and (like ISiddiqui linked to) Klinsmann's comments are infuriating. He's hypocritical, he blames players and accepts no responsibility, he constantly plays players out of position. Even our U-20 and U-23 teams are underachieving and playing Route 1 football.

[Grover]

Reckless challenge from Gayle has Crystal Palace down to 10 men against West Ham. 1-1 at the half and the Hammers are sensing blood in the water.

[MrBug708]

Shame that Gayle thought he needed to do that. Palace probably deserved the 3 points and ended up with none. OH well

[miami_fan]

I have no idea what the US U-17 team is trying to accomplish offensively.

[miami_fan]

Brutal red card on the US player. Ref got played on that one.

[MIJB#19]

Going in, you'd think Arsenal - Bayern will be a testament to the game, potentially a goalfest. So far, both teams have come close, with okay to good football, but overall it's also been a sloppy game on both ends.

(And just as I write this, the score is opened )

[MIJB#19]

Amazing, that has to be the very first time in a UEFA regulated game where it actually helped to have one of those next to the goal assistant referees!

[miami_fan]

I am becoming more and more convinced that Wenger slept with Jose's wife.

[kingfc22]

2-0. Over Bayern. Pinch me. Didn't get to see any of the game, but last I had checked it was 0-0 70+ minutes into the match.

[BishopMVP]

I understand it for the last group match, but what's the reasoning behind all Champions League games going off at the same time even the early weeks?

[SirFozzie]

Hoo boy, if true, things are going to get very very VERY interesting in La Liga

(assistant referee apparently was told by a colleague to rule against Barca during November's El Clasico derby against Real Madrid)

BBC Sport - Real Madrid v Barcelona: Official 'told to rule against Barca'

[Grover]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I understand it for the last group match, but what's the reasoning behind all Champions League games going off at the same time even the early weeks?

Standard kick-offs? Hasn't it always been done this way for the most part.

[EagleFan]

Big match swing with Liverpool going up a man and then scoring the tying goal just a few seconds later.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Grover

Standard kick-offs? Hasn't it always been done this way for the most part.

Sure, but staggering one would make them more money. Particularly seeing as Russia has a 3 hour time difference from England/Portugal.

[TroyF]

The Jose Mourhino press conference is going to be fun again. I think he may just have the final breakdown today.

FWIW: the two yellow cards on Matic were both good calls, no matter what he says.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The Jose Mourhino press conference is going to be fun again. I think he may just have the final breakdown today.

Obviously something badly wrong at Chelsea.

I've been reading a book about the Team Sky cycling team, their head went to Sir Alex Ferguson for advice and asked him how to build a positive team spirit. Sir Alex said "get rid of the c*nts". Time for Chelsea to follow that advice and fire Mourinho.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The Jose Mourhino press conference is going to be fun again. I think he may just have the final breakdown today.

FWIW: the two yellow cards on Matic were both good calls, no matter what he says.

The goal line technology is weak and naive... #Mourinho

— Gooner4Ever (@Akinwunnmi) October 24, 2015

Great win for the Hammers. Where's Grover?

[MrBug708]

Palace needs a forward

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Critch

Obviously something badly wrong at Chelsea.

I've been reading a book about the Team Sky cycling team, their head went to Sir Alex Ferguson for advice and asked him how to build a positive team spirit. Sir Alex said "get rid of the c*nts". Time for Chelsea to follow that advice and fire Mourinho.

No way Chelsea can do it. Too many to count and that starts with the oligarch owner.

But they do need to fire Mou.

If the rumors are true and he really tried to force his way into the officials office, it should be a massive fine and touch line ban. (I know others have done it, but Mou has a pretty recent history)

If only something this bad could happen to Saban

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Critch

I've been reading a book about the Team Sky cycling team, their head went to Sir Alex Ferguson for advice and asked him how to build a positive team spirit. Sir Alex said "get rid of the c*nts". Time for Chelsea to follow that advice and fire Mourinho.

And Terry and Costa and ...

[Grover]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The goal line technology is weak and naive... #Mourinho

— Gooner4Ever (@Akinwunnmi) October 24, 2015

Great win for the Hammers. Where's Grover?

Whooo! Great win. I was worried on the equalizer. Chelsea were playing their socks off and West Ham were quite uninspired for the first 25 minutes or so.

Payet is something else. Wonderful signing, worth every penny.

Classic Andy Carroll goal.

Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Chelsea.

What a start for Bilic.

[AlexB]

OK, as a lifelong (alright since I was six years old) Leicester fan, when should I start getting excited, and how long after that will the season come crashing down around my ears? Just want to know, as right now I'm waiting for the latter rather than enjoying the moment!

[Grover]

Originally Posted by AlexB

OK, as a lifelong (alright since I was six years old) Leicester fan, when should I start getting excited, and how long after that will the season come crashing down around my ears? Just want to know, as right now I'm waiting for the latter rather than enjoying the moment!

Vardy is playing out of his head right now. It's incredible.

[The Jackal]

Ozil now has the best games-per-assist ratio in EPL history. For someone that gets criticized often (and even I've been critical/worried at times), let's remember that he is in fact a boss with the ball.

Also, good job Hammers.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by AlexB

OK, as a lifelong (alright since I was six years old) Leicester fan, when should I start getting excited, and how long after that will the season come crashing down around my ears? Just want to know, as right now I'm waiting for the latter rather than enjoying the moment!

Bad news: you're going to need to wait until the end of the January transfer window before you can feel comfortable.

[britrock88]

What the Stoke?

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Bad news: you're going to need to wait until the end of the January transfer window before you can feel comfortable.

TBH we have half a chance of carrying on through to the last weekend of November, but from 28th November through December schedule is brutal:

Man Utd home
Swansea away
Chelsea home
Everton away
Liverpool away
Man City home

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by AlexB

TBH we have half a chance of carrying on through to the last weekend of November, but from 28th November through December schedule is brutal:

Man Utd home

If they keep up like they are now, you only need to score one!

Swansea away

Still mourning the Rugby World Cup. You'll be fine.

Chelsea home

Will be in the throes of chaos after Mourinho is fired.

Everton away

In a surprise move, they re-hire Moyes. You win by 5.

Liverpool away

Everyone's tired from Klopp's gegenpressing by now. Hat-trick for Vardy!

Man City home

They've won the league and are resting for Europe. Their U-16s keep it close, but you squeak a win.



You're welcome.

[AlexB]

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Bad news: you're going to need to wait until the end of the January transfer window before you can feel comfortable.

Well what qualifies as a successful season? They weren't quite relegation favorites before the season but they were in that next group of contenders, and they've almost certainly banked enough points that even if they have a brutal 6-game stretch there they've probably banked enough points to stay up. II know some fans hate it, but I think it'd be awesome if Leicester could play Europa for a year, but there's no way Leicester will comfortably lock up a European spot before the last couple weeks. Beyond that, do fans really care whether they finish 8th, 11th or 14th? I don't really understand mid-table fandom.

[flere-imsaho]

I don't know, I don't really follow Leicester. Didn't they just barely avoid relegation last year? If so, my hope as a supporter would be to comfortably avoid relegation while building a good enough base to not worry about it in future years, and then maybe flirt with the Europa League. Basically be Everton.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Well what qualifies as a successful season? They weren't quite relegation favorites before the season but they were in that next group of contenders, and they've almost certainly banked enough points that even if they have a brutal 6-game stretch there they've probably banked enough points to stay up. II know some fans hate it, but I think it'd be awesome if Leicester could play Europa for a year, but there's no way Leicester will comfortably lock up a European spot before the last couple weeks. Beyond that, do fans really care whether they finish 8th, 11th or 14th? I don't really understand mid-table fandom.

As far as mid-table fandom goes.... as a West Ham supporter we want to finish in that 6-10 range. Anything below that is considered a failure, anything greater is obviously good news.

I think you get that with a lot of mid-table supporters. Happy to be closer to 10th than not.

[AlexB]

Mid-table fandom would be nice! Couple of years or so to go for that yet.

Back in the 90's we finished top 10 (just) four years in a row, but won the League Cup twice, got to play in Europe twice - the fact that it happens in frequently is what makes it special.

Do Chelsea/ManU/ManC/Arsenal fans drop everything and have four day trips to Madrid because they are playing in Europe for the first time in 20 years? Take a photo of the 1-0 scoreline at the Vicente Calderon because our fat centre forward had put us into an unlikely lead that would surely be over in seconds, but in fact lasted for near enough 50 minutes.

But Leicester are a bit of a yo-yo club, so we win the Championship now and again (no-one has won the second tier more than us, and we have been promoted to the top tier more times than anyone else, we had the record for the most Championship playoff appearances - not sure if that's still the case).

So while we have some barren times at the top table (and occasionally at the next level - thank you Gordon Lee, David Pleat, Gordon Milne, Peter Taylor, Ian Holloway, Paulo Sousa, Sven) we still win a lot of matches generally, and when we finish top 10 in the top league, or win a cup it means so much more because it doesn't happen that often.

Mid table fandom is different - could well be boring as if you never get relegated, you never get the winning seasons - two of the best seasons we've had were winning L1 (our only season at that level) and winning the Championship two seasons ago.

[ISiddiqui]

An article I didn't think I'd ever see (well at least not for years), really:

Log In - The New York Times

But in a small apartment above a tandoori shop on the quaint street, Louis East, Ben Ashton and Lewis Addley were ordering pizza and soda and preparing for a full night of soccer, starting with a match kicking off nearly 4,000 miles away, in Ohio.

East, Ashton and Addley — three British journalism students in their early 20s — curate mlsgb.com, one of the few websites in England devoted to Major League Soccer. And Sunday was a big day, with playoff berths and seedings at stake on the final day of the M.L.S. regular season.

The question was why: Why stay up late to watch games many time zones away in a league that is barely two decades old, when many of the world’s best players are here at home and televised in prime time? Yet in a country consumed with Premier League soccer, following the American version has the same outsider appeal that once drew Americans to the European game.

East, Ashton and Addley say they prefer M.L.S. precisely because it is not the Premier League. The games are more wide open and the outcomes less predictable, they said, and recent imports like Didier Drogba, Steven Gerrard, Sebastian Giovinco have elevated the level of play.

“There was a gap there to link M.L.S. and England and the U.S. and the Premier League,” East said. “With soccer growing in the U.S., I don’t see why it couldn’t be popular here, too.”

East and his friends also prefer M.L.S. for precisely the reasons its critics deride it: a playoff system that gives at least a dozen teams a chance at the title; the parity of a two-conference system; and the lack of relegation, which in other countries can banish a fan’s favorite team out of the top flight for good. In comparison to the staid leagues of Europe, which are often dominated by a handful of top teams, those features add to the excitement, they said.

While it is unclear who precisely follows M.L.S. in Britain, the presumption is that many of the fans are millennials, the same demographic that has a lot of followers of the Premier League in the United States. Both sets of young fans gravitate toward fresh content, and thanks to social media and ubiquitous connectivity they can find like-minded fans everywhere.

As our hipsters fall in love with English football, their hipsters fall in love with our MLS. Kind of interesting and amusing at the same time.